Possible lawsuit? Lawyers in the house are welcome!

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by tistrapukcipeht, Feb 28, 2013.

  1. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    Interesting story here:

    One of my neighbors, young chap on his early twenties has a long hair, but normally has a ponytail.

    He applied for a job at company "X" to sell cars but the manager told him if he wants to work there he must get a hair cut.

    I thought this was outrageous, but we live in a society that is very hypocritical, with image...

    He would be hired if he had short hair, he said the women there have long hair, but men can't, I thought it is bias towards his long hair.

    What do you lawyers think? Suitable or not? Worth it to do anything or not?

    I actually stopped to think about and it really is true that aren't man guys with long hair anywhere.
     
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  2. RoddickAce

    RoddickAce Hall of Fame

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    Is this in the U.S.? I don't think the constitution governs human rights regarding appearance, unless it's related to religion...

    I know many theme parks and amusement parks have different hair length requirements for male and female front-line staff.
     
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  3. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    Tell him to raise the stakes and insist that he be allowed to wear a pencil skirt and heels to the office. Because if women can do it...
     
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  4. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    There is no need to jump to conclusions. These are all well-known topics. Long hair, tattoos, inappropriate dress in females, formal dress codes - these are all issues which have probably been looked into. It depends on whether other men are allowed to have long hair and whether there is a case to be made that customers expect a certain professional look from the sales people.
     
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  5. krz

    krz Professional

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    Really a lawsuit? This is why we are going downhill.

    Tell him to get a haircut and take the job, look for a new job or start his own car selling business if he wants to do things his way.
     
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  6. max

    max Hall of Fame

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    . . . this just brings to mind the time I went to a local coffee house and ordered a sandwich from a young woman with pins and gears falling out of her nose and heathen tattoos scattered hither and yon. . . not very tasteful a situation; hoped that she would not sneeze. . . and never ate there again.
     
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  7. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Now, coffee houses are for the creative types. The woman fits in there. You want anti-establishment types in coffee houses and solid establishment types in financial companies. Right fit for the right job.

    And pins and gears won't contaminate your food.
     
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  8. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    No lawsuit here. The New York Yankees, a fairly visible employer in this society, require haircuts that are short and no facial hair simply to play baseball under their employ. Perfectly legal, no law against it.
     
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  9. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

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  10. Seth

    Seth Hall of Fame

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    Yes.

    Love this.
     
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  11. Bhagi Katbamna

    Bhagi Katbamna Hall of Fame

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    As written in the comic strip Dilbert: It is against the law to discriminate on the basis of gender and skin color but luckily it is perfectly legal to discriminate on the basis of looks and weight.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
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  12. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    That would not fly if a devout Muslim/Hassidic Jew/Sikh filed a lawsuit. It may not have happened, that is all.
     
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  13. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    This ^...

    Getting lawyered up over something like this is just a red rag to any potential future employer not to employ the guy.
     
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  14. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    sureshs
    There was a very good football player at BYU some years ago, a very religious fellow, who told the press in all earnestness that he'd love to be drafted by a NFL team but certainly would not be able to play on Sundays.
     
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  15. westside

    westside Hall of Fame

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    Get a haircut, take the job, do well at his job, gets promoted, becomes boss, rep the ponytail again.
     
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  16. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    It's probable that there was nothing offensive about his hair, but that it simply displeased his potential employer.

    However, employers are allowed to lord it over you for eight hours a day and it's quite hard to change hair lengths in a day except with a wig.
     
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  17. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    That is important because the team needs to play. But his beard should not make any difference.

    There was the hairy case of a Sikh man some years ago who worked as a pizza guy. Some customers complained that his beard hair might fall on the pizza and he was fired. He claimed that his beard is held in place with a fine black netting as is often done and so there was no danger. I don't know what happened.
     
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  18. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    Got some more info:

    He told me his application didn't say anything against MEN with long hair, also they said He has the job if He gets a hair cut, so yes up to him to change. I told him to get the hair cut and get me a discount if they have anything that pleases me there, I'll be his first customer.

    Westside- that was the best I saw.


    Now going back to the subject:

    In my view point there is absolutely no difference between a woman with a long hair down to her *** and a guy with a short pony tail 4-5 inches long ala Steven Seagal, I talked to his dad as well, there is already an appointment with a hottie hair dresser we go to.

    Therefore in my opinion if a guy can't have long hair a woman can't have, under law should not be any hiring based on how long somebody else's hair is or isn't, at this point I'm glad I shave mine every 2 weeks.

    I know the guy, He is not a dirty looking guy, He is clean looking but has a pony tail, similar to Canas/ Rafter, Federer type.
     
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  19. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    So you want people to be free to express themselves however they please, and you want to forbid any negative consequences for that expression.

    Another glorious logical victory for the Entitled Generation.
     
    #19
  20. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    What negative consequences? Just because a hair is a little longer??

    I wonder what would happen if a company would not hire women just because most women don't have short haircut (Let's name a Djokovic hair style).

    This is hypocritical to me how they want everybody to look alike to perform certain jobs, just because the society imposes it. Well, Jesse Ventura had a ponytail and He was a Governor.
     
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  21. krz

    krz Professional

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    Entitlement is the perfect word for this situation.

    Here's the issue. Clearly, you don't have an issue with this but, the general public may or may not have an issue with this but, if they do have an issue, that's lost sales. They want to hire the person who gives them the best chance to sell the highest amount of cars.

    Why don't people understand that businesses are about making money, they aren't charities. They owe your friend nothing, he has no right no impose his views on something someone else built.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
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  22. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    That is an extreme attitude. A business does benefit from people around it paying taxes who are not its customers, so it is not a one-way street. Many of these storefront businesses are not all they claim to be, but create huge public nuisance with parking and pollution. Many of them need to go and be replaced by online enterprises. Car dealers especially are jarring to look at with the balloons and stuff. One has to look at the whole picture including carbon footprint instead of just believing the slogans of these owners.
     
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  23. krz

    krz Professional

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    Wut?

    10char
     
    #23
  24. jhhachamp

    jhhachamp Hall of Fame

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    That's nice, feel free to run your business with these principles if you ever own one.

    However...since you don't own this business, your opinion is pretty much worthless here. The employer has every right to demand he cut his hair if he wants the job. Tell your friend to stop acting entitled, and either get a haircut or find a different job.
     
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  25. jhhachamp

    jhhachamp Hall of Fame

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    So we should replace local businesses with online businesses (most likely overseas) so we don't have to deal with the pollution, noise, etc? I think that sounds like a very extreme attitude.
     
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  26. max

    max Hall of Fame

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    Very unpleasant. I haven't eaten there since. In practical terms, they lost some business. It's my right to be disgusted! :)
     
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  27. max

    max Hall of Fame

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    I would point out that this kind of Contact With The Real World is actually often a valuable thing for young people, especially when starting out: it can be the start of a very positive maturing process, pulling one out of one's navel.
     
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  28. goober

    goober Legend

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    Suing a company that you have not even begun to work for is possibly the worst idea ever. Private companies have always been able to dictate how their employees should look- uniforms, "business attire", ect. Lawsuit will go nowhere.

    Also suing your employer will follow you. Not many people are going to hire someone who has sued their former employer-big red flag.
     
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  29. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Not should. It is happening already. I buy most of my stuff from Amazon now. My wife buys supplies directly from Proctor and Gamble web site. I bought something recently from target.com and not the store which is nearby. I don't find any "human contact" pleasure shopping in stores with the parking lots full, new temp workers every time, no in-store knowledge about a product, and threatening security standing everywhere.

    Oh, also ever heard of Tennis Warehouse? Look it up some time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
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  30. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    Suing a potential employer for the right to to work at his business while not conforming to his rules is downright stupid. If he wants to sue, good luck to him finding a job in the future.

    This. Pontytails on men look awful anyway.

    You hit the nail on the head. The dude is applying to work for someone. That someone has a right to tell his employees how they should carry themselves and appear in front of a customer. End of story. I used to have semi-long hair back in the day (think Federer) and when I applied to work at a supermarket down my street, the manager told me he'd like me to cut my hair a little bit. I went out and did so that same day. No questions asked.
     
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  31. tennismonkey

    tennismonkey Semi-Pro

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    the sense of entitlement that seems to pervade more and more generations is annoying.

    nobody is forcing your friend to cut his hair. nobody is forcing your friend to work for a car dealership that asks its employees to cut their ridiculous ponytails.

    also the pickup artist?

    [​IMG]
     
    #31
  32. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Times will change. Pony tail hair will not be discriminated against. I dream of a world in which our children can wear their hair as long as they want.
     
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  33. jhhachamp

    jhhachamp Hall of Fame

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    Sure I'll agree that it is happening naturally and there isn't really any way to stop it. I don't think it is something we should be aiming for though, that's the view that is extreme. It is bad for local economies and results in many people not properly developing their social skills, among other drawbacks.
     
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  34. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    Times have changed. Long hair was popular in the 1700s and 1800s with established males, and even earlier for native Americans. There's a reason we don't try to imitate their hairstyles these days.

    Not to mention it also kills people's desire to help local economies, and it gives more power to much larger business rather than helping people. Further, you are completely right about it hurting people's social skills, which is a VERY bad thing.

    I always try to buy local rather than shop online. Shopping online costs too much in shipping these days anyway. If everyone shopped online, what would our main streets look like?
     
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  35. Pickle9

    Pickle9 Semi-Pro

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    This thread is a prime example of why this country is turning into the "United States of Djokes, Whiners, and everything in between."

    Why is it that every time someone experiences something they don't like, they think "hey maybe i should sue them?" A bunch of sissies i tell you. Get over it or **** off.
     
    #35
  36. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Tell that to the Apple Computer Company!

    And tell that to those who suffered at the hands of BP in the gulf oil spill!




     
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  37. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    That's it sureshs!
    The guy should go to an on-line barber and get a virtual haircut. That way, he can sell virtual cars to virtual people.
    That way we can do away with hair cuts, hair salons, car dealers, cars, and even people. Al Gore will be so happy!
     
    #37
  38. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

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    No suit.

    This isn't discrimination based on sex, religion, ...etc. They are trying to maintain a professional, clean-cut image, and this is within their right. This isn't discrimination. It's selection of a suitable candidate.

    Choosing someone with a college degree isn't discrimination against high school dropouts. It's candidate selection. Choosing someone with a professional demeanor and appearance for a car dealership isn't discrimination. It's a job requirement.

    If you want a job, you have to fit the job requirement of maintaining a professional appearance. Get a haircut!
     
    #38
  39. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Its just as probable that the boss is some puritanical jerk who thinks that hair anything longer than a marine cut is a sign of the red peril.
     
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  40. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    That is more likely the case
     
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  41. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Actually all employers have the right to not hire someone for whatever reason. Only reason that they cannot use is discrimination against sex--male, female, race, religion, and age, I believe. Other than that they can hire or not hire anybody they want for any reason.

    If a Chinese restaurant saids they wont' hire a white person waiter because they want all Chinese staff, that is actually illegal. but it happens all the time.
     
    #41
  42. max

    max Hall of Fame

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    Funny. I worked at a Chinese restaurant, but it was in all the heat and steam of being the dishwasher. I was white when I started the job, and even whiter when I finished! :)
     
    #42
  43. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    The key here is that you worked as a dishwasher. You weren't cooking the food, serving the food, assisting customers to their seats, or working at the front desk.

    The customers never saw you. You just cleaned up after they finished eating. Therein lies the point.
     
    #43
  44. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    There was a lawsuit about Hooters not hiring male servers. Of course hiring male servers would have destroyed the business - which appears to be the purpose of the lawsuit, other than making some bucks out of it. Of course it was settled out of court.
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517334,00.html

    Nikolai Grushevski filed a complaint against Hooters of America in January alleging its Corpus Christi franchisee would not hire him as a waiter because the position was being limited to females by an employer "who merely wishes to exploit female sexuality as a marketing tool to attract customers and insure profitability."


    Hooters argued a “bona-fide occupational qualification” defense, which applies when the “essence of the business operation would be undermined if the business eliminated its discriminatory policy,” according to Onpointnews.com.


    “If we lose this go around, you can next expect hairy-legged guys in the Rockettes to line up and male models in the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue." Hooters' vice president of marketing said, according to Onpointnews.com.
     
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