posters who you want to see hit.

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Larrysümmers, Dec 20, 2010.

  1. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,033
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Compared to you I don't know much but I do have a PhD is cognitive science and if you are a really person, you need help.

    Never heard of a professional science journalist acting like you do, for long, before losing their job.

    Seriously, you need help.
     
  2. sennoc

    sennoc Guest

    PhD in cognitive science and you are so naive? Are you sure that it's me who needs help here?
     
  3. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
  4. arche3

    arche3 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,389
    no he is not. he is real.
    and I never knew chrome did translations on the fly. that is pretty slick.
     
  5. Photoshop

    Photoshop Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    893
    Location:
    Florida
    If he isn't trolling I guess he really believes what he says.

    sigh... I give up.

    [​IMG]




    just kidding. I'll do another quick photoshop later. just need ideas
     
  6. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    I am giving this another thought - maybe sennoc is right.. maybe we are all close minded.

    who says winning can be the only goal?

    winning is the goal of Olympic wrestling, but certainly is not in WWF.

    why can there not be a WWF form of tennis?

    I think the light bulb is starting to turn on for me.

    I feel a bit confused right now... not sure if I was serious or joking when writing the above.
     
  7. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    10,730
  8. sennoc

    sennoc Guest

    Who knows, dozu, maybe you have discovered evolution? ;)
     
  9. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2005
    Messages:
    3,163
    Hmm. Maybe I'm a WWF tennis player, too. I don't play tournaments
    or really compete anymore. I play an occasional set or two of singles
    or doubles, but mostly just hit around. I actually just enjoy hitting the ball
    and hitting good shots. Of course when I play a set, I try to win, but
    it's not super important to me as it's not a tournament or anything.
     
  10. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    37,239
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    "Artform" tennis.
    I have not played a tournament since '79. 1979.
    I don't rally either, just play sets, or get another person to help hold up my end of the court against 4.5+'s who want to hit.
     
  11. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    10,730
  12. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,265
    I agree with you %100. I’m 35 years old. I can’t warm up and play an Open level match in 5 minutes INCLUDING serves!. It’s idiotic. We’re talking indoor tournaments with no practice courts so no way you can warm-up unless you want to hit in the snow outdoors in -30 degree weather. By the time I’m even remotely ready to play I’m down 1 set. It’s the biggest shock to my current come back. When I was 20 years old, I could play no warm-up like it was nothing. It doesn’t work that way anymore.
     
  13. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    now we are talking.

    I don't play tournaments, and 70% of the time I spend on the court, I don't play sets either, just casual hitting or playing points... that is really not much different from what sennoc tries to do.

    sennoc, if you didn't call everybody an idiot, maybe people could have been more open minded, and grasp what you were trying to get across.
     
  14. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    37,239
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Heck, I"m still searching for the post that Sennoc accused me of calling HIM a 3.0.
     
  15. arche3

    arche3 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,389
    I play at least one competitive match a week of singles. and usually one match of doubles for fun. I enjoy the competition. I win 8 out of 10 matches. against good players. I have become very crafty. I will do whatever I can to take the opponent out of his rythm. I see it like a chess or strategy against good players. Against lower level guys I just blast them and overpower them. I am playing on a usta team this season for the first time. the club the team is based out of gave me a free membership to play on their team. (free indoor tennis baby!) So I will have 1 usta match and 1 singles league match a week for the next few months. I enjoy playing any level of opponent. I don't like just hitting. I do like practicing though with a goal.

    (Dozu...They are borg... you are assimilated)
     
  16. accidental

    accidental Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2010
    Messages:
    933
    Ask any tennis player, any real tennis player. It doesn't matter if you win by an bagel or a tiebreak; winning's winning.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    ^^^ this is a moot point now.

    I think we already established, that in the WWF form of tennis, winning is irrelevant.
     
  18. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    The more I think about this, the more I feel sennoc is onto something here.

    Say your goal is to play high level tennis, do you have to learn how to handle junk balls from rec players?

    conventional wisdom says you should, because winning is winning, and if the junk baller beats you, he is the better player.

    But from a long term standpoint, there are no rec type junk balls in high level tennis, so why should you bother to learn how to handle them.

    I think people do need to open their mind a little.

    arche3, you may beat sennoc 0 and 0, but that doesn't mean you can do better than him in high level tennis, say hitting against a 5.5-6.0 type.
     
  19. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    20,201
    Location:
    On my iPhone
    Serious question: Was that last long epic post by Sennoc the greatest TW post of all time?
     
  20. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    greatest or not, that's debatable..

    in recent years I haven't been losing a lot, in tennis, ping pong, or golf...... but in case I do lose, now I've got FIVE legit reasons to pick from, and my opponent will sure understand.
     
  21. jmnk

    jmnk Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    998
    disclaimer regarding various posts by sennoc - repeat

    [I know, it's repost, but since Poland, polish, etc is being mentioned here more and more]
    The views and statements expressed on this forum by poster known as sennoc do not reflect the views of other polish speaking posters and any other person of polish ancestry involved in the athletic activity also known as tennis. Other posters affiliated with polish culture do not warrant the accuracy, reliability, currency or completeness of those views or statements expressed by sennoc and do not accept any legal liability whatsoever arising from any reliance on the views and statements of the said poster.
     
  22. jmnk

    jmnk Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    998
    I'm confused. Is he playing one set per match? Or three? Or I can't add properly......
     
  23. jmnk

    jmnk Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    998
    Hmmm, that's a tough one. But I would still prefer a win over dozu. You know, to lose you do not really have to work at all.
     
  24. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,751
    So what this boils down to is, Sennoc is the greatest volleyer in the world, who loses recreational tournaments because he is old and the surface is different and his racket is to heavy. Interesting...


    WINNING....EPIC WINNING.... I AM ON A QUEST
     
  25. arche3

    arche3 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,389
    higher level players do not use junk against each other because it does not work. Junk does not work against me and I am not a 6.0. If I can beat a player using lazy topspin shots I will use it to conserve energy. If I cant then I need to go more aggressive and expend more energy.

    So yes I think competitive players need to learn to play every type of player. Or else open tourneys will be won by 3.0's testing the waters of open tourneys. WWF tennis is not the same.

    If I can beat player B 0,0 I will do better against a much higher level player C than player B. Because it means my strokes are better and more consistent than player B.

    All this assuming winning is the goal. If there is no reason to win then it does not matter. hit with whomever and however. But if you want to win against higher level players you need to develope as full a game as you can.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2011
  26. TonLars

    TonLars Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,479
    Location:
    Minnesota, USA
    Hi Sennoc,

    Ive just casually read this thread recently. I know you have been arguing with some for a while, but hopefully you wont mind my honest question. I just find it interesting that you say your volleys are better technically than Nadal. I was hoping to know exactly what you mean by this, for clarification.

    When you say this, do you mean that if you and Nadal had a volley target competition, you would be more accurate? Or if you and Nadal took turns and played volley against groundstroke against the same opponent, you would perform better than Nadal and win more points at the net? Or do you feel that your volleys just look better subjectively? Any one of these things or all of them?

    If you believe your volleys are better looking than Nadal's, how do you arrive at that conclusion? That seems to be a rather subjective conclusion which probably would be different from coach to coach. Or have you discovered something in physics and biomechanically as fact that Nadal is not following? How did you do this, and are sure you are correct? Finally, what specifically in Nadal's volley is not as technically proficient as your volley?

    Thanks for the time. I think the answers to these questions may help clarify yourself and people on here may better understand you.
     
  27. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    37,239
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    I'm an example of someone who skipped the B's, or 4.5's to play exclusively in the A/Opens.
    I wanted to avoid the junkballer/pusher slicer dicer lob dudes who predominated in the B's of the late 70's.
    Yes, I know I would be a better player today if I took the time to learn how to beat the pusherB's of my generation.
    Yes, I'm glad I skipped that boring and WORK part of tennis.
     
  28. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    and I know some juniors who avoided USTA tournaments, and go straight to ITF tournaments, basically for the same reason.
     
  29. accidental

    accidental Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2010
    Messages:
    933

    I know you may or may not be serious here, but if you do that then you would fail to develop the actual skill of winning. The ability to raise your level when you're in a tight situation, to act and think rationally when there is pressure, the ability to focus etc. Probably the most important skill of all.

    Like John Isner, who says his ability to raise his game under pressure comes from playing and winning so many matches at college level.
     
  30. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    no I was not serious lol.

    a 'pretty stroke' that breaks down against junk balls, must have some flaws in it, so it is actually an ugly stroke.

    real pretty strokes produce more punishing shots against junk balls. all good players do that.

    the fact that sennoc doesnt even understand this, indicates that Lee's 3.0 rating is dead on.
     
  31. arche3

    arche3 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,389
    Sennoc is going to burn you for that comment dozu...
     
  32. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    20,201
    Location:
    On my iPhone
    Impossible. He uses a K90 racquet.
     
  33. aphex

    aphex Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    6,263
    Location:
    athens, greece
    Nasal wishes he could use a racquet as heavy.

    The heaviest in the market in fact.
     
  34. sennoc

    sennoc Guest

    Oh, it's so easy to be funny. Years will pass, dozu. 20 years from now you will look at your "amazing" wins against nobodies and they will mean nothing.

    BTW as I said, I do not hide. People know where to find me. It's so easy to call and compare our real tennis skills at normal conditions...
     
  35. sennoc

    sennoc Guest

    I have no time for answer now, you have to wait a few hours. I was writing about pure technical differences.

    You do not evolve. You do not understand my words. We have to wait 20 years...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2011
  36. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,802
    would a real 5.5 take offense so easily?
     
  37. sennoc

    sennoc Guest

    You really think that your opinion is important for me? That all those numbers count? That I live to prove that an unknown amateur tennis player is wrong?
     
  38. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    sennoc - you are doing better... no more 'idiot' calling on me. If you lose that on other fellow posters, this discussion could be more civil and technical oriented, which appears to be what you are interested in.

    so let me get it started, and see how well you can grasp technical opinions from others, and how good your technicals really are (instead of bombarding with your polish forum with mumble jumble, you gotta understand the why's, which you claim you do, so let's see)

    so CoachFLA and balla and few others pointed out your low take back.. this exactly why your pretty stroke breaks down when you get a junk ball, on a court with different speed, with recreation ball, at high noon when you can't warm up.

    all these excuses above, boils down to 1 thing - timing. When timing is different, your swing tempo has to adjust, and the adjustment happens, NOT in the forward part of the swing, BUT in the top of the backswing and the racket drop. With a high take back that ALL the pros use, they can adjust while the racket head is high, and the racket feels LIGHT in their hand, allow them to smoothly adjust with LIGHT, RELAXED grip pressure. Your FH motion does not allow you to do that, if the tempo changes on the incoming ball, you have to tighten up, which ruins the whole stroke.

    This issue is actually quite common among rec players, some of them can hit quite pretty when the rally tempo fits the rhythm of their faulty strokes, but just like yours, their FHs will break down when the tempo changes... .Hence all the 'how to beat pusher' threads that keep popping up, and will till the end of time.

    So there it is.... I want to see your rebuttal, pure technical.

    When it comes to real tennis (the type with WINNING as the goal), real technical knowledge is the kind that can help a player adapt all conditions, and WIN in all conditions.

    But I think I understand in WWF tennis, the goal is to use 'dynamic kinetic chains, many muscles' to hit 'aggressive balls', ONLY IF the incoming ball fits the tempo of your swing..... this is like a WWF performer can perform a perfect body slam if the other performer puts the body in a perfect position at perfect timing.... but otherwise these WWF performers get destroyed by any real wrestlers.

    Now your turn.
     
  39. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    now we desperately need an hero like 'SF Alex', in warsaw, to make this happen :)

    lol, this thread is so full of life now! just a couple of days ago we were all wondering 'now what' after the 'Lee hit'.

    There appear to be quite a few polish TWers here.... but I may actually register an account on that polish forum, to look for a hero.
     
  40. arche3

    arche3 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,389
    Great post Dozu. I agree let's keep it technical if possible. But that is possible only of Sennoc stops calling everyone an idiot. I agree with your post. 100%. I am easily able to adjust to varying conditions. And I am far from a pro. I will not lose a match because of tennis balls or the sun or court surface.

    As far as the Sennoc fh takeback I agree it is harder to time it that way. I never thought why but it is a good explanation you have. Please Sennoc respond on a purely technical manner regarding this question. Which is valid even if you are a better tennis player than the rest of us.

     
  41. arche3

    arche3 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,389
    That's a good idea Dozu. Look for a polish hitter.

     
  42. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    3,667
    Location:
    Here and There
    Speaking about forehand and technique, this might be my favourite video on YT in regards to the forehand.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rl0fwXTrr8

    Federer and Nadal, 2 completely different styles of game and approaches to their playing yet both exhibit the same key elements in their forehands regardless of their own technique that they have.

    1. Both have their racket head up on the backswing and keep their racket moving throughout the whole stroke
    2. Both use their non-dominant hand very well (for balance, shoulder turn, whatever way you want to look at it)
    3. Both let their racket drop and point the butt cap at the ball before impact
    4. Both extend through their contact and THEN they wrap their racket around to what most people like to refer to as the windshield wiper motion. (Vilas explained it to me in simpler terms and just said finish with your racket below or at your shoulder and don't catch it. Same thing)

    The outcome and tactics are different between the two players but the key elements are there for anyone to copy. Simple and direct.

    Of course there are other things going on within the stroke such as footwork and balance with your feet, proper movement so you get where you need to be at the right time etc. I'm just talking about the technical aspect of their stroke, technique with with their playing hand mostly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2011
  43. arche3

    arche3 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,389
    I can personally attest to he fact that after I made a conscious effort on a better fh takeback like it is described by balla I was more consistent on the stroke and I hit it harder and with more spin. And that was just by watching my own video. Seeing the issue and fixing it.

     
  44. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    lol, before I do that....

    Sennoc, can you post something, 5min, unedited, vs. an 'aggressive player' you keep mentioning.

    saves me the trouble to post broken Polish in your forum.
     
  45. sennoc

    sennoc Guest

    Dozu, I think your tennis knowledge is too low to write posts like above. You play a recreational tennis. Your technique is recreational. Your understanding of tennis is recreational. And you think that what works for you, at your recreational level, should be copied by everyone.

    Your analysis is naive and completly wrong. You perform much better when you insult people.

    All I can say is that my backswing is a result of careful physical and biomechanical analysis. And yes, you are right, many pros do larger backswing. But you don't know, why, and I do not want to explain.

    Also, I do not use one type of backswing.

    http://www.vimeo.com/20975508

    You really think that the difference is so huge? Especially if you remember that Federer hits lower ball and adds more spin?

    What's the function of backswing? Physically, biomechanically - why do we do backswings?
     
  46. arche3

    arche3 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,389
    You play rec tennis too Sennoc.
    In essence you are saying I won't explain my reasons because I am better than you. Or maybe you don't have any reasons? How can we have a discussion about technique if all you will say is I hit this way based on superior technique that you do not understand so I won't explain it so you can understand? What exactly about your tennis is not just regular recreational tennis?

     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2011
  47. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    apparently my feeble attempt of getting this thing to 'civil technical' was to no vail.... which I expect to end up this way, because apparently sennoc, in his own words "know nothing while he thinks he knows everything".

    so, Hunter, Hewex etc, mark this down.... there was already plenty evidence that it was not a 'gang up attack' on some poor soul.. the last exchange between me and sennoc basically sealed the deal, that the 'burden of proof' to be civil and technical, is on him, not on the 'gang attackers' like yours truly.

    so now, back to our regular broadcasting - aka gang up attack.
     
  48. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    3,667
    Location:
    Here and There
    sennoc, I wasn't talking about or comparing your forehand at all in my post nor did I mention your name. I was talking about the forehand stroke in general and about technique.
     
  49. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    instead of going down the sarcasm route.... these questions from sennoc, are actually good lead-ins for some technical discussions that many rec players can benefit from.

    there is this thing called 'loading', in any sport involved in hitting an object.... baseball, golf, hockey, cricket (congrats to India), boxing, etc.

    loading also has to be in sync with timing. it's easier to load to hit a static object (golf, or hockey, if not hitting a 1-timer, the puck is usually 'sitting' there to be hit)... timing is easier, therefore a stopping point is no issue (visible pause at the top of the back swing in golf and hockey - hey, it's Masters weekend, enjoy:).

    However when it comes to hitting a moving object, a stopping point creates a significant problem - difficulty to adjust if the object comes at different speed. Therefore all tennis pros loop the FH, and most baseball hitters loop the swing (I don't know baseball well enough to say ALL, but the bat is always in the UP position at the ready position)... it's one continuous motion to facilitate easier timing.

    So there is a piece of 'recreational' tennis knowledge that dozu has..... too bad that sennoc is now just another 'old dog' that can't appreciate real, battle tested tennis know-how.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2011
  50. sennoc

    sennoc Guest

    Nadal's volleys are technically and biomechanically very weak at many aspects of stroke. They work for him because he has an extraordinary feel.

    Let me show you an example. Let's take this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyvtqBKk7EU

    Quite new video, Nadal at his best - early 2010.

    I don't have a good video of me, so let's take this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1xkW2a1y5I

    I hope you recognize that player...

    Now you have to download both movies, because we will analyze them frame by frame.

    Let's look at Nadal's volleys when he moves forward. He hits just a few of them. Let's look at backhand volley at 01:30. Our maestro hits the ball exactly when his foot lands on the ground. This error is very popular between players (sadly, ATP Top10 is not an exception).

    You should never hit the ball when your centre of mass is shaken. You can't control COM shakes, while they can control significant percent of power.

    Let's look at your video.

    If you check your video carefully, you will see that you hit backhand volleys when your foot is in the air. Great. You have nice backhand volleys. In fact, at this technical aspect your backhand volleys are better than Nadal's (ooops, I shouldn't write these words, I feel next flame war in the air... and you will be a victim...).

    ...but I'm sure you didn't know about so fundamental physics. Let's check your forehand volleys. If you analyze the movie, you will see that you hit the ball at the moment when your foot hits the ground. Your trainer didn't know the fundamentals of strokes and didn't explain you what you should do. Sad but true, trainers do not know physics, they know set of rules - and his set was not complete. As a result, your backhand volleys are quite good but you do not feel comfortable at forehand volleys and have problems to control them.

    You are a professional tennis player. Now you have two choices. You can ignore me or you can go on the court and check my suggestions in practice.

    If you ignore me, silence will be an answer.
    If you check my suggestion and it won't work, please come here and say that I write bs.
    If you check my suggestion and it will work for you, please write "Thank you" as a payment.

    OK?
     

Share This Page