Power potential 1HBH vs 2HBH

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by dominikk1985, Jan 13, 2013.

?

Which has more potential

  1. one hander

    29 vote(s)
    70.7%
  2. two hander

    5 vote(s)
    12.2%
  3. same considering equally good technique

    7 vote(s)
    17.1%
  1. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    What do you think? I think the 2HBH is better for an power hitter since it is better at toleration pace/depth and taking balls early but I think when it comes to killing a "sitting ball" the 1HBH generates more RHS and power.

    I would even say there are are very rare cases in which 1HBHs match the RHS of good FHs. you can swing more freely then the 2HBH and hit more out front (longer swing path-which of course can hurt you against depth or pace).

    what do you think?
     
    #1
  2. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    does it matter if it's a sitting ball ?
     
    #2
  3. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    Well sitting is relative. I'm more talking about a slightly defensive to neutral rally ball. against those power can matter, although placement is more important than a few MPH.

    however the topic here is not about how important power is but which can create more power.
     
    #3
  4. PhrygianDominant

    PhrygianDominant Hall of Fame

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    I firmly believe that under perfect conditions (height of bounce, preparation, technique, etc...) the one hander is better. Sadly, your opponent is trying to make your life difficult, and therefore that never happens. Since this thread is hypothetical, and we are talking of potential and not real world application in realistc settings, the one hander will win. In all practical applications, the 2hbh will be better if the player has a one handed slice.
     
    #4
  5. martini1

    martini1 Hall of Fame

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    I could never crash the ball flat and bang it in with 1h. IMHO even if you have the time to do a full swing and hit way in front the ball cannot be as hard and as flat vs 2h. With the 2h you can use torso turn and legs to punch it.
     
    #5
  6. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    have to vote the 2h also..... if you ask a baseball player to hit a tee-ed up ball, he will use 2 hands..

    if you ask a golfer to hit a tee shot, and only count the ones hit on the screws, he will still use 2 hands.
     
    #6
  7. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    by this reasoning, do you hit your forehands double handed as well?
     
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  8. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    if reach and switching the hands around are not an issue... yes.

    but that's a big if in tennis.
     
    #8
  9. marosmith

    marosmith Professional

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    One hander has more power someone posted a scientific measurement of the power potential on here a year or two back.
     
    #9
  10. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    As said, from a physics perspective, the 1H actually has a lot more power potential. In reality, no one is biomechanical, and the difference in ease is going to crop up with the 1H. It's like slapping a huge turbocharger on a small engine. You have no torque to get the engine up to speed in order to spool the turbo and access its power advantage. The 2HBH in this scenario would be a centrifugal supercharger. Although your more cramped body position robs you of some potential power, the fact that it's more or less always available and only gets easier to generate with easier incoming shots makes it a better choice for many.
     
    #10
  11. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    This is not a fair comparison. The power generated here is from the amount of torque you can generate. A one handed stroke will generate more torque. The problem is whether or not you are able to generate it due to your technique. In golf and baseball, you can't accelerate the equipment with one hand because what you're using has an enormous moment of inertia (the club head or the end of the baseball bat). In tennis and other racquet sports, this does not apply.
     
    #11
  12. Thepowerofchoice

    Thepowerofchoice Semi-Pro

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    I like this analogy. ^^^

    Also I like to add that even physics suggested that 1 hbh has a lot more power potential but it is a bit tougher for our body to stop the end of the range of motion (1hbh) and keep it from loosing balance. There are many reasons for this...tight hip flexors, weak glutes, tight pecs, muscular imbalance etc and of course improper technique. Just my 2 cents.

    It's like you are driving a Ferrari with a weak breaking system so you can't and wouldn't want to go very fast.
     
    #12
  13. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Exactly. Potential is only as good for as much of it you can use.
     
    #13
  14. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    try swing a modern driver with superlite shaft, doesn't feel much different from a tennis racket.

    on the other hand (no pun), with 2hbh you have this leverage thing between the 2 hands.
     
    #14
  15. martini1

    martini1 Hall of Fame

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    And yet I have not seen a player who can hit flat 1hbh in the 90-100 mph range. One cannot take advantage of power train. Many can swing 2hbh like a left hand fh.
     
    #15
  16. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Well I have hit in the low 90's with some TS on my one hander and mine isn't
    that exceptional. I think breaking 85 would be tough for me on a 2 hander.
    Maybe I'm not a great example. I went to the 2 hander for returning big serves
    in dubs and don't think hitting over 80 is something I will use very often.
     
    #16
  17. Xizel

    Xizel Professional

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    The pro one handers on tour. Plenty.
     
    #17
  18. 10isfreak

    10isfreak Semi-Pro

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    Federer routinely breaks 90 mph on winners. As for the 100 marks, I have seen Gasquet hit a 106 mph backhand winner against Murray at the French Open. Can't recall when it happened, but he did demolish the three digits -- probably even more than once during that same match.

    However, great two handed backhands also get that high in terms of mph. I would say that hitting the one handed backhand might give you a slight edge in terms of hitting out on a ball purely and simply because of the muscles that are involved in the exercise... The real edge a two handed backhand has is consistency.

    Players using two hands often outperform their forehands in terms of consistency, making fewer mistakes off their backhands. However, they also hit a lot less winners. As for power, it happens that I have seen players hitting big using either backhand technique as theirs. For one handed backhands, I might pick Haas as a notable example of power during rallies. He has shown greater consistency than Gasquet in that regard, doesn't stand ten feet behind the baseline to hit it -- like Gasquet. Federer isn't bad either and might look weaker than he is because of the opponents he often faces. For two hands, my favorite remains Nalbaldian. He just demolishes the ball with it...

    If I circumscribe the question to amateurs, I am wondering where to draw the line. It's nearly impossible as a recreational player to be bothered by the heft of heavy spin and shoulder high balls given that virtually no one will hit that hard during an entire match. All things kept in proportions, amateurs would be more comparable to women than men wherein the one handed backhand may not be a liability, but an advantage.
     
    #18
  19. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    No, that's exactly the point. It's a long beam, where almost all of the mass is right at the end. A tennis racquet is made to be either balanced and with the balance towards the handle to allow you to swing more quickly. Head heavy racquets are made for those with slow swing speeds.
     
    #19
  20. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    Nalbandian, Safin, Agassi, and Djoko are great at generating power on a rally/sitter ball with 2 HBH.

    Federer, Wawrinka, Ree-chard, Haas, and Almagro are great with 1 HBH.

    I voted equal but can see the argument for the 1 HBH as it is basically a longer lever and more flowing stroke. But, as good as all those 1 HBH are, I might take Nalbandian, Djoko and Safin to dispose of short balls better on the BH side. Heck, Djoko kills Nadal by stepping and hitting his 2 hander either hard up the line or hard CC.
     
    #20
  21. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    2hbh CONTROL allows the player to hit old school eForehanded flattish 2hbh's fast, low, pinpoint.
    1hbh can probably swing faster, but do you have time to prep every time?
    LISTEN, for the answer.
     
    #21
  22. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    how is the prep time any different between the two? it's just a matter of rotating your body.

    moving on from pure power, the one hander has the benefit of more disguise. one can move quickly from slice to topspin/flat during the turn. if you are a two hander, it's pretty obvious when you'll go for a slice.
     
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  23. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    You only need to play tennis just a little bit to know 2hbh is much better for half volleys, for shots hit behind you, for big fast serves hit into your backhand, and for returning overhead smashes with some ball speed besides slicing.
    You don't have to play a lot to know this.
     
    #23
  24. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    the prepping itself is not longer but the swing takes longer because you need to hit it more out front and the swing arc is wider (more like what you call "casting" or "arm bar" in baseball). a 2 hander or FH also should be hit a little out front but you can still hit it beside you. a 1HBH topspin needs to be hit really out front which takes more time.

    for that reason you have a little more time contraints and have to prep earlier for the 1HBH.
     
    #24
  25. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Me jerk.
    Dominikk1985, very patient.
     
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  26. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    I have no issues hitting half volleys or behind me with one hand and the backhand overhead is always a smash for me, never a slice. I suppose it's the benefit of all those hours playing squash and badminton.

    While I can imagine hitting low half volleys in the service box with two hands, i think single handed would give more feel/disguise/angle.

    The real question:
    how does one reach a backhand overhead with two hands? is there a two handed version of this? http://youtu.be/u2vF9xnL-EU?t=5s
     
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  27. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Serena and Venus never had problems with 2hbh overheads. You can get more power on the ball more often with both your hands....unless you're strong as ConantheBarbarian....and even HE uses 2hbh on his overhead cuts.
    If you gotta reach full reach, just let go like you would on a wide groundie.
     
    #27
  28. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    thanks dominikk1985.

    I see your point, but that is during the swing forward, not the takeback/prep. how many milliseconds are we saving?!
     
    #28
  29. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    i guess it's a matter of developing feel with a particular stroke. to each their own. how did you guys choose which one to use?

    One handed always seemed more natural to me as it was what i used for other racquet sports and all of my heros as a kid were one-handers so i was influenced by them.
     
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  30. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Unfortunately, the takeback is part of the prep, so it cannot be judged separately. Some 2hbh's takeback direct, while other's loop.
    Longer leverage and weaker ONE arm is the reason the forward swing takes longer to initiate in 1hbh, and quickness favors the 2 hbhs.
    Any swordsman will tell you 2 hands is stronger and quicker than one hand, while badminton players would argue, as would knife fighters.
     
    #30
  31. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    I don't know. probably like 20% more time. this is often no problem but in some situations this can be crucial
     
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  32. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    'Twas the same for me. Started with a 2HBH, but the 1H always felt more natural. Now I think it was because I used to be much larger and the 2H form made me feel cramped. I switched to a 1H in the middle of high school and it simply plateaued in the middle-late of college. I decided to give the 2H another shot, and now as of February, I'll have had 1 year with 2H and it's better than my 1H could ever dream of. I would get more power on my 1H, but the amount of control and stability of the 2 makes it a no-brainer. The best part is that I have kept my slice so I have both options available. People often say that the 1H provides more angles to hit. I have found the opposite when playing against a real opponent.
     
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  33. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Which is preferred by pros is influenced by the NEED of 2hbh while they were little kids, and the reluctance to change as they got stronger. Fed and Samprs noted exceptions.
    Longer lever of the 1hbh can provide more swing speed, but needs more time.
    Shorter, quicker, more violent 2hbh can hit eastern forehand like lazer shots with precision and accuracy.
     
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  34. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    what about satisfaction?

    there is a certain pleasure in hitting a one-handed backhand winner, like a slap from a firm pimp* hand!


    * i don't mean to cause offense or encourage violence. hitting people is not cool.
     
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  35. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    "satisfaction", I can't get no....
    Is tennis art form?
    Is tennis winning or losing?
     
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  36. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    is winning/losing vs. art mutually exclusive? i firmly believe tennis, at it's best and most personal, can be both.

    there were a couple of good Martin Amis and David Foster Wallace articles on this. I'll see if i can get links.
     
    #36
  37. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Why do we need "articles"? Why can't we think for outselves?
    Some people are engineers/mathmaticians. Some people are artists/dreamers.
    And most have a mix of both, of course.
    A winner is a winner.
    A winner hit well is better than any plain ole winner.
     
    #37
  38. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    relax. i didn't suggest the articles as evidence for an arguement or such. they're just pretty cool and well written. thought you'd like them as a tennis fan.

    my view is art can be seen as the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination. Sounds like a good description of a well placed (single handed) backhand to me.

    anyway, here you go (the articles, they're short and good reads):

    Martin Amis: Tennis, my beautiful game.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jun/27/martin-amis-love-of-tennis

    David Foster Wallace: Roger Federer as Religious Experience
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/20/sports/playmagazine/20federer.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
     
    #38
  39. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Oh, don't get me wrong....
    I play exclusively with a 1hbh, using both slice and topspin...and lots of sidespin too.
    My competitive years back in the late '70's, exclusively 2hbh flat or sidespin. But I didn't touch a racket for 15 years, and came back with a 1hbh.
     
    #39
  40. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    Yes, you don't have to coil as much for 2 HBH and you can hit ball later in the stroke - that's closer to your body. 1 HBH you must rotate shoulders a wee bit more as you normally use neutral or closed stance, and contact point is a foot or more out front. Getting that extra coil and extra foot of early contact takes a bit more time. You can get away with more such as open stances and later contact and still hit an agressive shot with 2 HBH.

    But, a good 1 HBH is prettier.
     
    #40
  41. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    I think stan answered the power potential question:)
     
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  42. marsh

    marsh Rookie

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    To my understanding and experience, it is pretty commonly accepted that a one-hander has more speed potential and a two-hander has more potential for kinetic energy, i.e. heavier ball.
     
    #42
  43. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    2 more control and strength.
    1, more whippy RHS
     
    #43
  44. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    The 1HBH is more about shoulder rotation and longer swing path, which allow you to generate higher racquet head speed and really crush the ball.
     
    #44
  45. Vertiz

    Vertiz Rookie

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    Through kinetic chain / uncoiling of many body parts, one hander definitely has more potential for power than a two hander. That being said, it's because of this long kinetic chain and transfer of energy that the one hander (especially a strong driving oneH) is so much harder to hit than a twoH. However, what do we really mean by potential for power? A twoH can more consistently generate power but a oneH can generate higher peak power.
     
    #45

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