Powerful 2h backhand

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by panatta, Jun 15, 2005.

  1. panatta

    panatta Rookie

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    I play a two-handed backand.. very consistent but.. I play only one-two winners a match.
    How should I do to enhance the power of my backhand? Use more wrists .. or changing my swing? I use a semiwestern grip for the two hands.
     
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  2. Return_Ace

    Return_Ace Professional

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    I find to really go for a backhand I need to be in a closed stance and really transfer my weight forward, also my followthrough is longer (or at least I think it is) and then I do a Safin and let go my right hand (I'm a Leftie)............hope this helps
     
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  3. Jonnyf

    Jonnyf Legend

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    i would love to hear some more info as i have the same problem my regular 2handed BH (not my slice or Dropshot which are good) really is like Roddicks to keep the ball in play and i also barely get any BH winners
     
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  4. Return_Ace

    Return_Ace Professional

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    Heres a tip: WATCH SAFIN!!! IMO he's got the best BH around.............On high balls you can do the jumpy thing and take the ball on the rise which usually creates more power.........Oh Yeah Thought of Another Tip: ASK KANA, That BH KILL she's got going in the picture thread looks VICIOUS!!!
     
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  5. Jonnyf

    Jonnyf Legend

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    it's sooo true
     
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  6. nViATi

    nViATi Hall of Fame

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    using semiwestern for both your hands doesn't sound like a good idea. try soemthing less extreme so you hit through the ball more
     
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  7. Return_Ace

    Return_Ace Professional

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    Whoah.....Can't believe I didn't read that part....stupid me, now I know what you kinda mean Pan, I had something similar to you but my left hand was an eastern BH grip, it didn't really give me that much power............try using a continental for your right hand (assuming you're right-handed) and a semi-western for your left hand (also assuming you're right-handed)
     
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  8. Return_Ace

    Return_Ace Professional

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    Jonny what Racket WERE you using, the one with 90sq.in.?
     
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  9. Jonnyf

    Jonnyf Legend

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    i cna't remember but i'm sure it was a Head
     
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  10. Return_Ace

    Return_Ace Professional

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    It could be just the racket..........I mean I tried to play at school without my racket, this is what happened: Used my friends cheapie Argos Slazenger X1 thing, soooooooooo powerful, so I decided to borrow another friends racket (this friend is pretty good - not as good as me of course :)) so i borrowed his LM Radical MP........And I thought WHOAH WAY too powerful which is strange, next day went back to my Ti-80 and I was hitting great with it :).

    Oh and Jonny sometimes it depends on the feel of the strings, like when I have those rubberband dampners on it seems as though I have more power (with Kevo's one it felt like I had my iTour again). However if I take the dampners away the power goes aswell, must be the "solid" feeling it provides.......hmmmmmmmm............
     
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  11. splink779

    splink779 Guest

    I'd say use more wrist. Combined with great shoulder and arm turn, extra wrist can allow you to smoke the ball, just look at Safin or Agassi. Also, make contact less in front of you, and flatten the ball out. I also find timing extremely important. Do not swing too early.
     
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  12. Kobble

    Kobble Hall of Fame

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    Extra wrist is the order of the day for crushing two-handers, at least it works for me. Just keep your wrists loose and let them rebound fast and late.
     
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  13. Jonnyf

    Jonnyf Legend

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    ok shall try that
     
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  14. nViATi

    nViATi Hall of Fame

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    try a continental for right hand and an eastern for left hand instead of semiwestern for both.
     
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  15. Jonnyf

    Jonnyf Legend

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    i use (runs to room to get racquet from bag) (me lefty remember that)

    Left hand (bottom)= Continental
    Right hand (top) = (my FH grip) SW
     
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  16. panatta

    panatta Rookie

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    Thank you all.. Do you think that people who usually play a lot of TH backhand winners play flatten backhand? Agassi and Safin play backhand winners which are flat or with a lot of topspin?
    I thought I had to change my grip, but.. does Nadal play his TH backhand with two semiwestern grips? He looks so..
     
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  17. dustyle

    dustyle New User

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    just use more wrist on ur BH. My TH BH is my weapon unlike many other ppl having a FH as their weapon.
     
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  18. panatta

    panatta Rookie

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    I still have problems with my backhand... does anyone have links of video that can help?
     
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  19. TheOneHander

    TheOneHander Professional

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    From what I understand, Safin and Agassi generally played flatter backhands relative to the rest of the tour (which is still a lot of spin), but winners can be manufactured two ways in a very general sense:

    1) Flat and blowing people off of the court or forcing errors
    2) Using topspin to gradually open up the court and create angles

    NO professional player uses to semiwesterns. There would be little to no racquet head stability. Nadal, from what I last heard, used an EBH for his left hand and a semiwestern for his right.

    However, if you are still having problems with your backhand...

    1) Use the "good old fashioned" conti-bottom hand and semiwestern-top hand grip. Doesn't overcomplicate things and is a good compromise between the other backhand grips.

    2) Tell us what's wrong with your backhand. What are your stroke mechanics? What kind of shots are you producing? Do you have trouble controlling the ball? Open or neutral stance? Etc...

    3) Take a video! It often helps people to see what you are doing and leaves them to interpret your stroke in their own way so that there's no confusion.

    Good luck, and cheers! :)

    OneHander
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2010
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  20. MarrratSafin

    MarrratSafin Hall of Fame

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    Yes, just watch Marat. I do my backhand exactly like his (well, obviously not as good) and my 2HBH is my best shot by far. Way more powerful than what my forehand can do!:twisted:
     
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  21. LetsGoRoddick

    LetsGoRoddick Professional

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    Work on your weight transfer. My backhand is terrible, pretty much just a dink if it's not a winner, and I know my weight transfer is terrible.
     
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  22. panatta

    panatta Rookie

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    I hit in a closed or neutral stance. I use a continental grip for my non-dominant hand and an eastern grip for my dominant (left hand).

    My arms when I hit: straight (the left) and bend (the right)

    I have good control of the ball, I can hit in any directions, but my strokes are not heavy. My problem is that my backhand has no pace.

    More: I don't understand where the power comes.... I have no idea how to produce it.

    I hit many winners with my forehand, but my backhand is not as powerful as I would like to.

    Thank you onehander for your advices ;)
     
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  23. panatta

    panatta Rookie

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    Do you think that the power Safin can produce comes mainly from the arms? What do you focus on when you are trying to hit a winner?
    Thank you
     
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  24. panatta

    panatta Rookie

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    It's much easier to tell than to do... Weight transfer.. What do you suggest?
    P.s.: go Roddick! :)
     
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  25. Jaewonnie

    Jaewonnie Professional

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    Its a very,very simple motion. All he basically does with his arms are: pull back, and push forward. He also tends to finish his stroke off to the side too (i guess to hit a more flat trajectory).

    One thing I notice is that Safin barely uses wrist on his back hand. The power comes from the connectedness of the arms and hips. The arms influence the hips to rotate into the ball (never should u intentionally twist ur hips faster than ur arms are swinging or u mite destroy ur back) and basically, this upper torso rotation gives power to the shot.
     
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  26. panatta

    panatta Rookie

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    Thank you Jaewonnie. Do you think that Safin keeps his arms loose or do we have to apply strength on them?
     
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  27. Jaewonnie

    Jaewonnie Professional

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    lots of strength. A Safin 2hander just doesnt produce any power with looseness. I don't think its possible to produce pace with looseness on the 2h backhand. Unless you have like a loopy backswing, then thats possible. But with Safin's technique, where takeback is nothing more than a literal "take your racket back", pace needs to come mostly from the correlation of arms and hips. They should feel very connected through the shot.
     
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  28. panatta

    panatta Rookie

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    I had that impression of looseness because Safin seems to throw a sack over his right shoulder in the follow-through. It seems to me that his tecnique is similar to that of Andy Murray. But Andy often finishes on the right low side instead of finishing over the shoulder....
     
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  29. panatta

    panatta Rookie

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    Who do you think can be the easier Pro player to imitate? Nalbandian? Roddick? Davydenko? Safin? Murray? Agassi? Who?
    I mean.. I don't think I will pay soon a coach for teaching me the two handed backhand. So.. my unique resource for the moment is internet.
    What do you suggest?
    Thank you
     
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  30. ManuGinobili

    ManuGinobili Hall of Fame

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    The easiest ways to add power to your backhand are to load up your shoulders and step into the ball:

    - Turn so that the back shoulder is practically pointing at the fence behind you, this is the loading action just like pulling a rubber band.
    - Step into the ball so that your weight plus the unloading action is efficiently transferred into the ball

    Remember both of this is done easier with a closed stance... that's also why most people only hit a 2HBH with an open stance in defensive situations

    Do these well first before thinking of "using the wrist more". At lower levels of play (not to look down on you, I am just a 3.5), it's best to keep your wrists relaxed so that the energy from loading the body is efficiently transferred into the ball.

    If you look at the "use the wrist more" advice, and start to think Oh I have to firm it up, or turn it... that's bad. I'm not saying the advice is wrong, but you should fix the shoulder and footwork action first, before touching something as complicated as the wrist. Just keep your wrist relaxed for now
     
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  31. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    it's been that long, you still have problem, that urge me to show you this video. two hand back hand is the easiest, simplest stroke to execute, as long as you remember one thing: it was hitted with your body only, NO ARM, absolutely no arm until contact then both arm spring out to push the ball forward.
    Notice Nabadian upper body, shoulder and arm are rotating in one unit, it transfers your whole body weight into the swing. he keep his two elbows on his ribs to make sure just that. Also notice his hitting shoulder is under his chin at the beginning of the forward rotation. that insure that he has a deep body rotation.
    Also notice Nabandian fold his wrist, he use that to slap on the ball at contact. you will do it later, when you master the rotation upper body, arms, shoulder in one unit. now just keep wrist firm.
    Do that, and just forget all teaching that you have before. left arm, right arm, 50%, 30% semi western, eastern....
    As i told you, nothing is simpler and easier than rotating your body, you can't make any mistake.
    in two weeks, if you still cannot do it, back here again see we can help you. one video will help.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XphTboHQLtA&feature=related
     
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  32. dsa202

    dsa202 Banned

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    Shoulder turn. More power, and easier to disguise where you're going.
     
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  33. panatta

    panatta Rookie

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    Thank you all... I played today.. but I still have a lot of confusion in my head. I'll keep you informed about any improvements... ;)
     
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  34. supineAnimation

    supineAnimation Hall of Fame

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    Two-handed backhand is all about a strong core. Engaging your core as you open your shoulders acts like the brakes of a car so that your arms and racquet are propelled forward the way a (unseatbelted) driver would fly through the windshield when the car suddenly hits the brakes. And keep your arms and hands loose enough so that your racquet drops (left forearm/wrist goes into extension and supination and the opposite for the right) right before the forward swing and the left wrist and forearm flexes and extends through the contact zone (again, opposite for the right forearm/wrist).
     
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  35. [d]ragon

    [d]ragon Hall of Fame

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    I agree the part about keeping the arms and hands loose and allowing the racquet to drop but the first part doesn't make any sense

    The driver in the car is going the same speed when the car suddenly hits the breaks as the driver is while the car was in motion before the breaks. The arms work differently though because they are attached your core while the driver is not attached to the car. There is no increase in force acting on the driver as the car suddenly stops

    I'll agree with trying to use your core but the way you're describing it makes it sound like you're trying to stop your body from rotating as well as possibly slowing down the arms
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2010
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  36. supineAnimation

    supineAnimation Hall of Fame

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    Probably butchered the explanation, but your trunk rotation ends before the arms finish their motion. So by engaging the core at the end of that trunk rotation, it allows the arms to continue forward with additional energy (assuming your arms are loose) similar to the way the driver would be propelled forward if the car stopped suddenly. There's a name for it in physics, but I forget it... if I ever knew. But I'm sure someone here who knows more about physics can tell you what it's called and what actually makes that driver propel forward with so much energy.
     
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  37. [d]ragon

    [d]ragon Hall of Fame

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    There is no additional energy added to the driver. While the car is in motion, he's moving as some speed, let's say 50 MPH. When the car stops, the driver will still be going 50 MPH (alittle less thought after he hits the windshield). He doesn't move any faster than while the car was still moving
     
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  38. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    it's called Kinetic Energy, taught at college sophomore physic class.
    you are right at the last part, hip can only swing that much, when it stop (like car stop) both arm will spring out (as person push thru windshield glass) it's the final part of the kinetic chain, but the main engine is the car (the body rotation).
     
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  39. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    no, move a whole lot faster. that why air bag for. when the car stop, the forward momentum still there, but because it stop, it will transfer the the foward energy to the driver, the driver, with 50 MPH receive an additional energy will move forward faster.
    In some case, we call stopping power: try this as a martial artist can knock out people with just a wet towel:
    hit somebody with a wet towel as throwing a frisbee. he won't feel anything.
    now before the towel hit him, pull your hand back suddenly: you can knock him out.
    You may try it right now with your feet, and feel the difference.
    In tennis we use this effect as a way to increase ball speed without any more effort (free speed). The mechanic of this called PULL stroke, using by most male pro.
     
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  40. panatta

    panatta Rookie

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    Very interesting. Yesterday I tried a different grip: eastern backhand for right hand, and semiwestern for left hand.
    We'll see how it works...
     
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  41. Austinthecity

    Austinthecity Rookie

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    I never thought about stopping the core/shoulders on a backhand but it makes sense. I do, however, do this on forehands for more power in the kinetic chain.

    For a visual, watch either federer's or nadal's FH in slo-mo. Their shoulders rotate into the shot, stop right before contact, then the arm starts the shoulders turning again for the followthrough.

    This stopping of the shoulders allows the mechanics of a FH to be more like a whip.
     
    #41
  42. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I think it's more beneficial to think of this mechanic as turning the hips first, then the shoulders, then the arms come thru. Stopping the shoulders mid swing seems like a tricky move.
     
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  43. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    For power on the 2hbh, you need to hit through (and past!) the ball with a lot of extension (characterized by a fully extended backhand side arm). If you look at any good pro, you will see that the left arm (for a righty) is fully extended after contact.

    To develop a feel for this, go out and hit backhands, holding the racquet for a second after contact at full extension as far out forward as possible (swinging forward through and past the ball). You may feel like you are going to fall over, but then step forward with your left foot to regain balance before moving your racquet back over your shoulder for the following through.
     
    #43
  44. panatta

    panatta Rookie

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    A question: for my two-handed backhand now I use an extreme eastern grip for my dominant hand and a western grip for my non dominant.
    Can someone tell me, please, which professional players use this combination of grips?
    Thank you

    (it seems as if this combination of grips works fine as far as power is concerned)
     
    #44
  45. Jaewonnie

    Jaewonnie Professional

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    I think eastern/continental (non-dom/dom) is the most efficient at generating power. Its about as flat as you can get.
     
    #45
  46. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Two 2hbh tips that definitely work for me:

    . Always make sure the back shoulder is raised slightly higher than the leading front shoulder when you you strike the ball... a common error is whern you do the reverse of this.

    . When your postioning, foot settings allow, ANCHOR the back foot, toe pressed hard down into the court, raised instep or arch of foot... this just gives you a wonderful 'anchored', solid and yet dynamic base, and it forces your body into shaping and orientating itself correctly for the shot.


    For panatta, others looking for further 2hbh general technique talk, this has some great info imo:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=116118&highlight=calling+all+two+handed+backhanders

    R.
     
    #46
  47. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Holy crap... it's been 5 years between two posts in your own thread! That's got to be a record.

    Have you thought of going to a pro and asking for help?

    - - - - -

    Good advice


    This is the grip many people use. I use continental for the right hand, SW left... simply so it's already set when I choose to execute a 1-handed slice (continental right hand). I just focus on the racquet face and the angle at contact with the ball (since the right-handed continental grip rotates the racquet face to a lesser degree than the eastern grip). In a nutshell, I basically try and duplicate my normal right-handed SW FH... as a left-handed SW FH.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2010
    #47
  48. panatta

    panatta Rookie

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    Thank you all..

    Before I asked: "I use an extreme eastern grip for my dominant hand and a western grip for my non dominant.
    Can someone tell me, please, which professional players use this combination of grips?".

    Maybe Nadal uses this grips? He uses a western grip (maybe extreme western) for his forehand, so I thought he might be using western and extreme eastern (non-dominant/dominant) for his backhand to reproduce something similar to his forehand on the backhand side.
    Am I right?
     
    #48
  49. Fugazi

    Fugazi Professional

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    1) Loose wrists
    2) More left hand (if you are right handed)
    3) Low hands with high racquet during backswing
    4) Hit well in front and don't let the ball get too high (hip level is great)
    5) Just imitate/visualize Agassi!
     
    #49
  50. Fugazi

    Fugazi Professional

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    Agreed, Safin has an amazing BH. Agassi's BH is excellent too.
     
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