Precedent for David Ferrer?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by President, Dec 2, 2011.

  1. President

    President Legend

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    David Ferrer is having arguably the best years of career at the age of 29-30. This is remarkable, ESPECIALLY for a grinder like him. Ferrer seems to have lost none of the speed that made him such a formidable opponent in his mid 20's, and even seems to improved his already legendary stamina. Has this ever happened before? Typically, grinders burn out in their mid 20's. What is Ferrer's secret?
     
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  2. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Mental strength and modern training techniques, of course genetics helps too, but is worthless without the other two.

    As to roids, he has the opposite of a roid demeanor on the court so... no.
     
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  3. ViscaB

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    Don't cry for me Argentina:).
     
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  4. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    LOL. Maybe the Spaniards should invite Lleyton Hewitt as their guest. Lleyton always did have feuds with Argentine players and needed bodyguards when he went there :)
     
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  5. ViscaB

    ViscaB Hall of Fame

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    Don't get me wrong. I have always been a fan of Maradona and the Argentinian football team and now Messi of-course.

    My brother is marrying a girl from Argentina as well. There's always a bit of love-hate. There are lots of Argentinian of Spanish descent obviously.
     
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  6. Seth

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    Classic lulz.
     
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  7. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    I was just having a laugh ;)

    The fact is, if Nadal wasn't involved in the Spanish team, I'd have probably backed Argentina to finally win the Davis Cup.
     
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  8. celoft

    celoft Guest

    For a player who is about to turn 30, Ferrer does not have the expected mileage. As a matter of fact, he has played 641 matches, that is less matches than 25 year old Nadal(655). Compare that with Federer who is only months older than Ferrer and who has already played almost 1000 matches. So Ferrer does not have the mileage of an almost 30 year old top player.
     
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  9. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Good explanation.
     
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  10. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Ferrer is proof that Nadal's grinding style being more hard on his body than Federer's style is complete BS made up by delusional tards.
     
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  11. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    Plus, Ferrer has developed a weapon in both his serve and forehand.. both are more dangerous than in the past, and so he isn't relying only on his stamina in matches anymore. Sure, it still matters alot, but he's improved his offense tremendously.
     
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  12. mattennis

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    Ferrer has played less matches than Nadal in the ATP Tour.
     
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  13. ben123

    ben123 Professional

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    another thing that comes to mind is that ferrer is not so huge as most tennisplayers... i think smaller people can be way fitter with the age than big people.

    i seriously dont know why nobody said this yet. its obvious
     
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  14. OddJack

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    Ferrer will fall outta top 10 before 2012 ends.

    Have a good day.
     
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  15. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

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    You are right. That is another reason.
     
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  16. ViscaB

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    It's much lighter on the knees. You see it in football as well. A player like Xavi who is also very small and takes good care of his body can keep on going for a very long time. A more physical player like Thierry Henry showed signs of aging at an early stage.
     
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  17. piece

    piece Professional

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    He was playing better toward the end of 2007 than he has at any stage this year.
     
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  18. Benhur

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    Argentines usually get along pretty well with Spaniards (except guys like maxi who seems to hate Spaniards with a passion). The cultural ties are pretty strong, well beyond the language, and big Spanish emigration to Argentina is more recent than to most other Latin American countries, except Cuba. In the 70s and 80s there was also a lot of emigration from Argentina to Spain, involving mostly educated people, among them an enormous amount of psychologists. It looked like at some point psychology must have been the most popular career in Argentina. So thousands of Spaniards in the 80s put themselves in the hands of Argentine therapists, and I don’t know if the effect was good or bad.

    Both Argentines and Spaniards are often perceived as a bit too arrogant in other Latin American countries. Argentinean arrogance differs from Spanish arrogance in that it has a distinct Italian component, which gives it a more expressive and gesticulative tone. My general impression is that Spanish arrogance has increased a bit in the last couple of decades, while Argentineans have become a bit more moderate. (By the way, I think arrogance is a major component of national traits in all the main European nations. The Germans can be arrogant, so can the French and the Brits, yet each in a different style.) But again, they usually get along well, Spaniards and Argies, because they have a lot in common. If you go to any of the main tennis tournaments, you will usally see them hanging around and practicing together a lot. Speaking of Ferrer, I was watching him practice with Chela back in 2007 in Montreall. During the breaks, they would sit and talk for long periods. At one point I was standing right behind their bench on the other side of the low fence, listening to them talk. Chela did most of the talking, and he was making Ferrer laugh hard. It was a long story about some player taking taxis all over Europe to attend tournaments in distant places.
     
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  19. Benhur

    Benhur Hall of Fame

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    I think the ability not to get injured and still have a lot of success is in itself a mark of special talent. Federer is a good example of this. Even in sports where injuries are very, very common, like soccer, you have guys like Pelé, who were phenomenally good and were almost never injured. Also Maradona and Messi come to mind.
     
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  20. nadalwon2012

    nadalwon2012 Banned

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    Ferrer may find it easier to maintain this stamina level than other humans (either that or he suffers in silence a lot). It looks difficult to maintain but some people just have greater capacity when it comes to stamina, and a different body clock etc.
     
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  21. dudeski

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    +1

    10DjokovicisbetterthanpeakNadals
     
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  22. gregor.b

    gregor.b Professional

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    Not only but the mobility/agility thing matters a lot also. When it comes to a strength/weight ratio,you will find Ferrer is probably up there or surpassing most of the other guys whilst being more maneuverable due to his 'apparent lack of size'. Also he has played a lot less matches.
     
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  23. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

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    Don't Argies have more common with Italians than the Spanish? I know alot of Argies are orginally Italian and alot of Argetine players play in Italy.
     
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  24. Benhur

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    Ferrer is playing well, but let's not exaggerate. Laver at the same age won 4 majors in 1969. Connors at the same age won two majors in 1982 and was the top player that year. Lendl at the same age was still ranked number 1.
     
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  25. Fate Archer

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    How many times has Ferrer been injured in the last couple of years???

    It's amazing that a guy with his play style can be so injury free.
     
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  26. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Ferrrer, Laver, Connors, Lendl. which name doesn't belong? in tennis(all sports really) all time greats often have greater longevity than the rest of the field.

    Ferrer first cracked the top 10 at the age of 25(which is on the older side for first time top tenners) he then dropped out of the top 10 for a few years & then returned at age 28. that is very unusual statistically(unless you're an alltime great), perhaps even unprecedented.

    But I believe the average age of the top 50 is the oldest its been in 30 years(maybe longer actually) so maybe its not that unusual in that context.

    due to the rather astonishing lack of promising younger players, we'll probably have even more veterans peaking at 27-29 in the next few years(& that's the main reason I think its a mistake to write off Fed or Nadal from winning more majors, the field isn't exactly deep, they basically only have to worry about one guy - someone who's not that young & isn't looking all that good physically right now)

    Its really weird to see one 19 year old in the top 100(Tomic)
    There were years in the 80s/90s with 10-20 teenagers in the top 100(some who became all time greats)

    At this point I wonder if we'll ever see a young player do what Andre Medvedev did, let alone what the famous phenoms like Borg, Becker, Wilander, & Nadal did.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
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  27. ViscaB

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    There are more Argentians from Italian descent (45% verus 35% or so). Many people are mixed with different nationalities in the last century.

    Argentina was obviously part of the Spanish empire where they speak Spanish and the ruling families were as a result often from Spanish descent.
     
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  28. nadalwon2012

    nadalwon2012 Banned

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    It's strange, when I first saw the title of this thread I was thinking "Ferrer being cast in the new Resident Evil film". Not saying it's right that I thought that, just how the title came across at first (in the first micro second that I saw it). And I've never even seen a Resident Evil film.
     
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  29. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    In terms of the overall male fitness it is well established that peak gritty hardness doesn't come until the 30s. This can be seen in marathon runners, multisport competitors etc. Guys in their 20s can barely compete with the old dogs. A lot of that will also be down to older guys also having more fine-tuned and disciplined training, recovery and nutrition habits.

    I don't think grinders in tennis generally burn out because of age-related loss of hardness/fitness, they burn out usually because they've worn out body-party - knees, hips, lower back etc. If they can maintain their body parts then they should get harder and harder going into their 30s.

    Note: peak speed/strength does peak in the 20s. It's the physical hardness which doesn't peak until later.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
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  30. 15_ounce

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    Monsieur Yannick tought Ferrer is doping.
     
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  31. SirGounder

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    I think it's the smoking that has contributed to his longevity.
     
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  32. SikSerb

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    Smoking Marlboros. Or Davidoffs...
     
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  33. thanu

    thanu Rookie

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    LMAO What made you think that!?!?
     
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  34. nadalwon2012

    nadalwon2012 Banned

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    Very hard to say what caused my thoughts. Wish I could shed more light on the subject, but impossible to explain it.
     
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  35. Rjtennis

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    Look at all the grinders throughout the years who have wrecked their bodies playing like Rafa. Ferrer is the exception and it boggles my mind that he hasnt broken down by now.
     
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  36. bullfan

    bullfan Legend

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    I guess you didn't look at the fact that he hasn't played nearly as many matches as many others his age. Ferrer has less bodyweight and milage to pressure his body.
     
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  37. Benhur

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    Sure, of course Ferrer doesn't belong in that league. Those were just the names that first came to my mind when thinking of players doing very well at 29-30. I am sure many others could be found (outside the all time greats) who had excellent results at that age.

    It had never occured to me that the average age of the top 50 may be that high now. If it's true, it puts into perspective the notion of shorter careers today.
     
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  38. SandV

    SandV New User

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    Harrison is 19 (turns 20 in May) and ranked #79.
     
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  39. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    Suddenly, i felt the absense of Conquistador!!!!

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  40. citybert

    citybert Professional

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    Ferrer's height will always be a hindrance, no player under 5 11 can dominate in today's game. Or most professional sports in that matter except, even golf, you still need the height to create torque on the backswing. Messi is probably an exception.
     
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  41. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    I won't forget this :http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=295858

    Federer: Last Of A Dying Breed
    The story continues to unravel. The history book begins to write new chapters. This is the career of Roger Federer. A Legend to everyone who has ever picked up a tennis racquet. Roger is the last of the traditionalists in todays game. Roger comes about as a true gentleman unwilling to give into change in a rapidly modernizing industrial world. Take one good look at Federer, he is a player who could have played in the 1930's but is playing in the modern game. While many have resorted to speed, and hitting the ball as hard as humanly possible, here is a player who subsuquently abhors that idea. Federer moves gracefully and works on his shotmaking more than anyone in the modern game. Whats more amazing is that Federer is not the greatest athlete, does not have the greatest speed, and is not the strongest player. You would think by these criteria that he would be struggling on any amateur tour. But this is the man who has beaten the world 8 times over. A man who has conquered the 7 seas and whos legacy is written in stone. Roger Federer is the last of the traditionalists.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The story continues to unravel. The history book begins to write new chapters. This is the career of Conquistador. A Legend to everyone who has ever read Talk Tennis. Conquistador is the last of the trolls on todays boards. Conquistador comes about as a true moron unwilling to stop it with his awful threads. Take one good look at Conquistador, he is a troll who could have trolled in the 1990's but internet speeds were not fast enough at this point. Alas we are stuck with him forever. While many have resorted to actually contributing positively to discussion, Conquistador insists on starting pointless threads. When Conquistador says that he is leaving the boards for good, he subsuquently abhors that idea. Conquistador moves quickly and works under at least two other user names, "severus" and "BlakeGOAT". Whats more amazing is that Conquistador is not the greatest troll, does not have the greatest vocabulary, and is not the smartest troll. You would think by these criteria that he would be trolling on MTF. But this is the man who has trolled the world 8 times over. A man who has trolled the 7 seas and whos legacy is written in stone. Conquistador is truly the last of the dying trolls...
     
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  42. BeHappy

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    Off the top of my head Melzer only reached the top 10 at 29, I think Stepanek was the same age too.
     
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  43. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    He will never be used in a "Athletes don't smoke" poster. He smokes and smokes and smokes....
     
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  44. _maxi

    _maxi Banned

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    And Maradona too.
     
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  45. ViscaB

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    And Xavi and Iniesta....

    The truth is that small football players are mostly in attacking or midfield positions. At the back Messi is "backed" by very tall and/or strong players like Pique, Abidal, Busquets and Puyol.
     
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  46. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    your obssession about Barça is annoying to say the least.

    Random comment : how cold it is today???
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    Random comment : do you like chocolate???
    Visca B : yes, but i like Barça best... blah blah Xavi, and Messi and Pujol...
     
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