Discussion in 'Racquets' started by JackB1, Feb 3, 2012.
yeah, i dont see him switching from the white.
Just look at Prince's facebook page. People know they lie.
Imo, the rebel gives me more precision. A little more accuracy and control. Better placement of lobs and serves. Just a little more control all around. However, thats IF i have time to prepare.
The warrior is definitely more forgiving and provides easier power. Control is good, but i am just not as precise with my shots. However the warrior makes up for that by giving me the opportunity to return many shots that i would not be able to return with the rebel. For example, mishit the ball on the frame, or at the very edge of the stringbed, and with the rebel you will be lucky if it makes it over the net. Especiallly if the ball was hit to you with lots of speed (which usually it is if you're mishitting). However, do the same with the warrior and you may have a winner.
Here's how i would rank them in the following categories:
Serve placement: rebel 98
Serve Power: warrior
Return of serve: warrior
lobs: rebel 98
passing shots: rebel 98
control: rebel 98
Stability: warrior, but a tie if rebel is hit in sweetspot. Warrior is more stable on perimeter shots
If i was a little better player, meaning more consistent, better timing and footwork, and a little more confident in my strokes, i would probably stick to the rebel. However, that is a lot of IFs. for my 3.5/4.0 game, the warrior offers more of what i need.
This was acually a good exercise, i have occassionally been going back and forth wondering which racquet to stick with, and this has helped. It looks like the warrior easily one the most categories.
real mixed review from the tw staffers--jackb1 is right the head is shaped like a pizza pan. Thick beamed so should have some good power for those that don't produce much.
The string sensitivity issue might be a little overrated. Most of us don't get to play every day and try out every string under the sun for hours to compare how they play in a particular frame. I've used the Warrior for a couple weeks and strung mine with two kinds of synthetic gut. That's just what I like. The cons of poly outweigh the pros for me, so I don't mess with it. Maybe if I did, I'd come to the same conclusion as some of the TW Testers that the feel is sub-par. But now that I'm fairly well accustomed to the Warrior, and not playing with other racquets every day, I doubt that one hit with a soft poly strung low would altogether make me shop for another frame. I'm tired of that.
I never said that about the Warrior 100. I said that about the thinner beamed EXO's like the Tour 100 or the prior Ozone Tour. The Warriors beam is a little thicker than those models, so no "pizza pan" look. The hoop shape of the Warrior reminds me very much of the Speeds, which I liked very much. Rounder hoop shapes are more forgiving if you sometimes miss towards the sides. They also allow for longer crosses, which makes for a wider sweetspot. Add the O-Ports to that and you have a very forgiving racquet.
About the power, I don't find it too much. With a poly in the mains, it tempers the power and brings lots of control. Being 50 yes old, I can appreciate not having to swing out all the time and I wait for my opportunity for winners...but when they are there, the Warrior sure responds
To be honest, I really don't understand the "lack of feel" comments at all.
Do any other Warrior users feel any "lack of feel" or "disconnect" with this racquet? I did in the past with some of the very muted Prince OPort racquets, but not at all with the Warrior. I know that "feel" is a very personal and subjective thing, but I really can't agree with those comments.
I havent found any lack of feel at all. Way more then the review gives credit for.
Hey BC, is it easy to switch back and forth between the Warrior and Rebel 98? Aren't the swingweights very similar? I have an opportunity to snag a new one for pretty cheap and was toying with the idea. What you think of the idea of keeping one in my bag as well?
Its easy enough to switch back and forth, too easy matter of fact. I know it's not the best thing to do, but i like having two different types of racquets in the bag. You can pick the best one depending on your mood, or who your playing, or how your feeling physically. At our level i see no problem with it. Its all about having fun anyway. And let's face it, switching up racquets and experimenting is obviously one of the aspects of the game that makes us love it so much. And yes, to me the sw and "feel" is similar, plus obviously the grip shape, and even the weight, so its not that difficult. Just takes a few hits.
Maybe I'll hang onto my Rebel 98 then rather than sell it.
Tried having a go with my Prestiges again yesterday but after a lot of games with the Warrior, it suddenly felt like hard work with the PMPs.
BC1/Jack, how are you doing with your string choices. I am happy with the Syn Gut Duraflex but curious about what I don't know that I don't know (if that makes sense).
I couldn't be happier with my Beast17/Attack hybrid. It was strung at 53/55.
Couldn't agree more with your attitude. As long as my game doesn't suffer, I am good. I do love to try other racquets, but when I need to win, I will always grab what gives me the best chance at that and currently that is the Warrior. I also play many casual matches and practice and that's where the Rebel could come into play. Long story short...I got one on the way
BC...any recommendations on how to string the Rebel so the power level will match the Warrior? Maybe a multi at low tension?
This topic is very timely...had a very tough match today against a pusher. He sliced EVRYTHING, and got everything back, not much pace but,very good placement. And made,no mistakes. Very frustrating. Never sen anytging like it. I didnt have the warrior demo because i had to return it and i havent bought one. But i did i have a pd 2012. I thought i was playing fairly well but started playing his game, and he was better at his game then i was. I lost the first set 7-5, and as down 4-0 in the 2nd. I switched to the rebel and won the next 6 games anf the 10 point tiebreaker.
The pd fet similar to the warrior to me and i can't blame the pd. However when playing with either of those or those type i have a horrible tendancy to get lazy,and not play aggressive, and that kils my game. With the rebel i am forced to focus more and i find myself playing better all the way around. It makes you want to be a better player, as stupid as that may sound. And the racquet gives you the ability to dictate play.
As far as strings, im liking my alu power rough at around 54/52. However i want to try your beast and attack hybrid at low tension. Just go low tension and semi soft strings and you will be fine.
Bc1, does today make you favour the rebel? Still going with the Warrior?
Any 4.5s or higher among those out there liking this racket? I noticed the TW testers not liking it that much, don't know if it's coincidence or a matter of level. Curious to hear...
2 our of 4 liked it and one is switching to it. Its not a good fit for either Chris or Tiffany, so I am fine with the review.
the tennis club i play at is a prince shop(club pro uses the tour 18x20) asked about the new warrior so he brought the demo down and we held it up against his exo3 tour. identical head shape just thicker beam. said he sold 2 quickly to our womens 3.0 group said they love the power and light feel to it. should be a good seller.
It will be a good seller, but the Warrior is meant for "intermediate and advanced" players, not 3.0 women. The EXO Red, Blue or Silver would be a much better choice IMO. Your club Pro really could have made some much better suggestions for them since 3.0 women are like total beginners. The Warrior doesn't really make a lot of sense for them. Its also not that "light". Mine is 11.7 oz with a +325 swingweight.
I honestly dont know. I already own the rebel, and i was only demoing the warrior. I still stand by all my favorable reviews of the warrior. I think it is a great all around racquet and a solid choice for anyone in the 3.5-4.5 range. However, there is something about the rebel. I like the way i play with the rebel, win or loose, i feel like im playing harder and actually making shots and relying less on the racquet. I'm not sure what direction i'm going, but since i already have the rebel, i think for now im going to stick with it. No need to shell out 200 dollars if i'm not positive. Ideally, like i said before, i would own both and take my time deciding.
i think at that level any thick beam powerful racquet would work well. He says they love it(i sure they know nothing about swing weight).I feel the silver would be the right choice for you IMO. We have 2 older guys(70"s) playing with the volkl c10 and wilson prostaff 6.1 and they seem to play ok with them. i would never tell them or the girls that's the wrong racquets to use and it doesn't really need to make sense. I guess the best opinions are the ones unsaid wouldn't you agree.
Not when its your job to pick out what's best for the player. Not sure I get your point here, but thanks for the suggestions.
I am getting a Rebel 98 also, but I have a feeling I'm going to much prefer the Warrior. Played another singles league match with it today and I constantly am amazed at how well it does everything I ask of it. I had some hip pain today and it really limited my movement, so I had to start going for winners whenever I had the chance to and boy did the Warrior pay dividends there. I actually played better with the injury and the extra aggressiveness
If the Warrior is so great for you, and replaced the Becker you used for a while, why are getting a Rebel 98, which isn't very similar to the Warrior and which you already said wasn't for your game? Could the TW Review of the Warrior made you second-guess your decision, and now you want to try again the racquet the TW testers much preferred? You are the racquet industry's dream customer - racquets as retail therapy, items to hoard, not to play until they wear out. More power to you, although in the Rebel's case, probably not.
Odds here say there's a 2:1 chance, at worst, that your avatar is new within three months.
Because I never really gave the Rebel 98 a fair shake and didn't playtest it with the proper strings. Also like BC1 said, they are easy to switch between and the 98 might be fun to try when not in a competitive match. Not sure why you have to give me a hard time because I like to try many racquets? If it adds to my enjoyment of the sport then why does it bother you?
We don't do it to be mean, it's just a reaction to one post about how the latest racquet does everything to your satisfaction and how you're playing so well with it, soon to be followed by dalliances with another racquet. Truth be told, your game would probably improve more if you just committed yourself to a racquet for a couple years, no matter how tempting the specs on something else. Believe me, I get it. I used to be like you, with pairs of different racquets in my house, and it just caused me to lose focus on playing because I was worried about giving this or that racquet a fair spin because I was stuck owning it.
If the 3.0 women love the racquet then that's what they should play with. All you can do is make suggestions based on players skill level and their type of play. The player ultimately makes the decision (most of the time). I do agree with you though that without knowing much else I would recommend the Silver, Blue or Red to those ladies.
Maybe the guy was talking about the Warrior Team- who knows. I know several 3.0-4.0 women that use that racquet. I play with a guy who played DI and he plays with the exo3 black team and loves it. Different strokes for different folks.
Jack, In a way, I still prefer the warrior as well. And i'm not saying the rebel is a "better" racquet. Whatever someone can do with one can be equally done by the other, the point I was trying to make is that with the rebel I find myself actualy playing better tennis and being more agressive. However if I was disciplined enough to play with the same focus and style with the warrior or pd I would probably have the same resuls, or even better.
Regardless, I think you will have fun experimenting with the rebel 98. It is a good racquet and can do many things well. You will not find it as forgiving or powerful as the warrior, and you may not like it in a side by side comparison, but to me it really shines in match play when you need it to perform. I doubt you will choose it over the warrior, but give it some time, it grows on you the more you play with it. And the better it becomes. Enjoy both of them.
Edit... wanted to clarify, that in addition to liking the way im playing right now with the rebel, another main reason I'm focusing on the rebel is simply because i have yet to buy the warrior. I still believe the warrior is my favorite in it's class, over the pd, pro open, etc. But im going to fight the urge to buy right now, or even demo others (specifically the pd, I can't seem to break away but I'm trying) and see if I can't make the rebel my go to racket. I do think I will have to raise my game a bit, but that's not a bad thing - if I can do it.
You also mentioned above that when you played with aggressiveness, the warrior really did well. I totally agree. And that is part of "my" problem. I tend to get lazy and not hit aggressively as much as I should with certain racquets, not sure if that is some subconcious fear of hitting out or simply because I know I can just let the racquet get it back, which can be an asset at times, but usually not. With the rebel I dont find myself playing that way.
I can feel the confusion in this thread. These relatively low-flex tweeners (Warrior 100) and player-tweeners (Rebel 98) kinda draw you in with that nice soft feel, expansive sweet spot, and tempting boost in pop. People talk about that "perfect" combination of pop/control with such frames, but you'll spend all of your time on court trying to find it. You won't; it'll elude you every time. One ball will land short and the next will hit the back fence. Just like the testers state, you'll have trouble feeling the ball on the strings, and you'll start questioning depth control and become a basket-case on the court. Some commentators are calling the Rebel powerful and others are calling it controlled. You'll hit short one day and start tinkering with more powerful strings, and the next day you'll launch the ball everywhere and start tinkering with poly's and hybrids to control the raw power. The cycle won't end.
Like Jack said in the London Thread, such a combination of low flex, extra pop, and sensitive stringbeds just don't work for players below the 4.5 level. It seems to me that you have two options: Get you a stiff tweener that won't hurt your arm like the DC Becker Pro, Volkl V-1, BB Sportster, etc., (or) just take the plunge into a stiff tweener from Babolat or Wilson, full poly, with a TE elbow brace, and some weights for wrist and forearm exercises. Like Jack said in the London thread, you'll need stiffer frames than these Prince's to achieve a consistent response if you're below the 5.0 level. I agree.
For instance, the best club pro in my area, who's ranked nationally and played Lendl at the Open BITD hits the predecessor to the Wilson K-Zero, with a 118" head and fan string pattern. It's as stiff as a brick, and he kicks butt with it. He knows what the ball's gonna do off of his hybrid stringbed every time. No soft spots and hot spots on that stringbed.
I understand what you're saying, and I guess it makes sense. Though I'm not positive I agree - It seems to me that when the balls fly or have a lack of speed I can attribute it to my swing. Of course I guess that's what you are saying, if you're under 4.5 your not consistent enough to use it. (However, I don't find the warrior to be any less consistent then the pd, both require a decent top spin stroke to maintain control on hard hits).
In your opinion what seperates say a rebel 98 from the radical mp? Or is the Radical also faulty in this way? And what makes a racquet string sensitive and the stringbed unpredictable? Is it the combination of low flex and low weight?
I guess I am just tired of everyone (not just you) deciding how I should enjoy my sport/hobby. I don't make any bones about the fact that I ENJOY trying different racquets, just like many other posters here. But I stick with the same specs all the time so very little adjustment is needed. I am currently dialed in with my Warrior, so I wouldn't do anything to jeopardise that. If you "keep in touch" with your main stick and do t lose the familiarity with it, there are no negatives to briefly trying other racquets here and there. I really don't do it as much as people around here think. I am very competitive in my league matches and want to win at all costs, so I am very careful about it.
Well that's just great. Gonna have to buy more rackets now.
The racquet itself really cannot "make you play" a certain way. You are in control of that all the time. You just know in the back of your mind that lazy play won't work with the Rebel, so you are kind of forced into action. But imagine if you played with that mindset and with the Warrior? Don't let whatever racquet you have in your hand determine your playing style. I know its easier said than done, but I think its a good idea.
I'm not sure that it makes any sense, but I'm trying to work through Jack's theory as well. And it's okay to disagree, as long as everyone's opinion his heard. I used to not think so, but I'm seeing the advantage of such an approach in that it lead to more informed choices.
As far as the combination----I'm not sure. According to Jack, the London didn't work for him because of the combo of low flex, added pop, and stringbed sensitivity. But that was with a 20mm beam width and a stick more in the "player's" category than "tweener." The Warrior, however, is about the same stiffness, larger head/sweetspot, and significantly larger beam width. I would think that it would be a "trampoline" by comparison.
The Rebel, at least on paper, looks to be a true "player/tweener," but it's softer than the London, with a larger beam width, and the playtesters and commentators are talking about extra pop mixed with control, but then you're back to the London "problem" again. Can the pop and low flex work? It seems like a more contradictory mix than the London.
Maybe at the end of the day, all theories and opinions aren't equal and the playtester himself/herself is the most important and decisive factor. Enjoy your Prince's!
You are 100% correct. And I know that. And I even said the same thing a few posts above. So much of this game is in our mind and having confidence in the racquet. And right now I'm feeling more confidence with the Rebel and that is dictating my play. But that is mainly because I have spent more time and have more matches under by belt with it, and it's also the only one I own. And I think I do get a little more control with the rebel, or maybe it's perceived control. IDK. I could pick either one and do ok. In the end you may get some extra points by using one over the other, and vice-versa. They each offer a little something different.
I don't agree either and I think such sweeping generalizations are hard to make with racquets because they are so personal in nature. Either way I don't find the stringbed on the Warrior "unpredictable" at all. The response off the stringbed is not too firm or flexy...just right. It makes dialing in distance or the back lines very easy for me. I also don't find the Warrior too powerful at all. With a poly hybrid, there is lots of control and I actually cannot hold back at all on my swing if I want consistent depth. Bottom line is that I personally find the Warrior perfect for my game right now. No issues whatsoever. The swingweight is perfect...the power level is perfect...touch, feel, serve...all there.
One of the playtesters said he was switching to it and they have access to every racquet under the sun. That says a lot.
The MAIN reason I switched away from the London was that I couldn't get as much pace on my serve as I could with other stiffer racquets. All the other issues were minor and I actually had a very successful season playing with it exclusively. I think certain racquets work better for certain people and the specs are just one part of the whole equation. The individual playtester truly IS the most important factor in the equation, but my final deciding factor is always on court results.
Pneumated, I am glad you decided to post here and partake in this interesting discussion. I take that as a sign that you want to move on . For even more insight, you should try out the Warrior or the Rebel 98 yourself, so we could get some of your 1st hand impressions on them. If you haven't played with them, it's difficult to know who you agree or disagree with, don't you think?
They are both great choices that's for sure! Nice to have such a "problem"
But it seems clear that the Rebel 98 is more of a lighter players racquet and the Warrior more of a "players tweener". Prince has really done an outstanding job with these 2 racquets and have a lot of bases covered for intermediate players everywhere.
Now... have you tried the pacific X fast pro 100? There's our racquet!! Just kidding (sort of).
I have to come clean; I was trying to turn your tactics from the London Thread against you so that you would see how discouraging it could be to hit a racquet that others are disparaging. But you're all too good-hearted, and considering that I'm not heartless, despite what you might think, Jack, I wanted to make clear that I was exaggerating my points above, mostly in jest. DO NOT trade your Warriors and Rebels in on stiff tweeners. I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if you actually did get a TE flare. However, the story about the ranked teaching pro using the 118", fan-shaped-stringbed, Wilson is true. The guy's a monster. So if there is a lesson that I was trying to convey, even slightly underhanded, it's that the player makes the frame, although the frame should suit the player.
I don't care for Prince, so I won't be trying any out, but I know that they make great frames. Enjoy them! And yeah, Jack, we're good, as usual.:wink:
too stiff! Isn't it like 70 or so?
68, so yes, stiff but could be worse. Here are the specs:
Pacific X Fast Pro 100
Head Size: 100 sq. in. / 645.16 sq. cm.
Length: 27.25in / 69.22cm
Strung Weight: 11.2oz / 317.51g
Balance: 5 pts HL
Beam Width: 25mm / 23.5mm / 22.5mm /
Composition: Graphite / Basalt
Power Level: Medium-High
Stroke Style: Medium-Full
Swing Speed: Medium-Fast
String Pattern:16 Mains / 19 Crosses
The extra length is the only thing that concerns me because I'n not use to playing with extended length, but .25 should be easy to adjust to.
Not that either of us need another racquet to throw in the mix, but I do wish you or someone would try it and give a detailed review - this one is interesting and looks great on paper.
If you are goating with a womens racquet, more power to you. Yesterday I saw a 5.5 using one of those Wilsons that looks like a lawn chair.
You know, I immediately suspected that's what you were doing ... because it was highly suspect for you to all of a sudden post in this thread, right on the heels of our little "tift". But, I was also kind of hoping that my suspisions were
incorrect. But I have to say, it takes a lot to admit what you were up to and come clean. But I can you understand how it can be upsetting when others disparage a racquet that you really like. I will be more considerate from now on.
There are a few guys on my ALTA team that are 4.0's and 4.5's that use oversize "beginners" racquets and use them very well.
I am pretty set right now with the Warrior and incoming Rebel. Also, you would be surprised how much .25" changes the way a racquet feels. I think extended racquets are good for singles only and also shorter players trying to add more reach, but for me, it makes getting jammed easier and also makes volleyjng in close quarters tough.
I know. I feel the same. Just one that caught my eye. I wouldn't want you to start wandering yet - nor I.
I've seen the same. I've played doubles against some teams (usually older - in their late 50s or early 60s) and one person will have a dunlop 200 or heavy players stick, and the other a 110 sq in oversize that probably weighs 9.5 ounces, and their games will be amazingly similar and amazingly good. Goes to show, as we all know, it's the player - not the racquet.
Went to the club after work today(really felt odd being there on a Monday) to talk to the pro. asked him how he suggests frames to players in particular the 2 that bought the warrior. 1) rates there game 2) body type age and injury consideration 3) frequency of play and what they want out of it(enjoyment,group bonding,or to get better and move up 4) demo-gave them the prince red,silver,rebel 98 team,warrior and warrior lite. these 2 chose the warrior off those demos(they want to compete and move up and play very frequently with lessons.i think it was a great move on his part--here's the best thing about stopping by tonight--one of the ladies is named JACKIE....isn't life grand.:shock:
I am pretty content with what I have right now. If a racquet I am using has something about that is "missing" or lacking...like serves or volleys...then I something get a desire to look around. But in this case, I don't feel anything lacking, so there's no real urgency to get anything else at the moment. I will check out the Rebel 98 and put it through its paces, but I'm not going to mind it one bit if it doesn't work for me.
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