Prince Original Graphite ( POG ) Mid and OS versions

Discussion in 'Classic Racquet Talk' started by scottatuofm, Apr 24, 2010.

  1. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    Can you post the link of the 4 versions of the 4 stripes?

    I Just got another 4 stripes POG 90 from a friend, but it is way "beefier" and the beam is slightly thicker than my existing pair (as thick as the EXO graphite mid, I think), so would like more info.
     
  2. Don't Let It Bounce

    Don't Let It Bounce Hall of Fame

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    I don't have a link, but I do have a combination of information I've gleaned off several posts over the last few years. Any quotes (e.g., "worst version IMO") are opinions of TT posters.

    • POG 1: 1 green stripe, no grommets, teardrop head, no bumper; no printing on top or side or racket (possibly a sticker) except for "Prince" and "graphite" at throat, cork-filled - circa 1978
    • POG 2: 1 green stripe, , no bumper, individual grommets, teardrop head; no printing on top or side or racket (possibly a sticker) except for "Prince" and "graphite" at throat, foam-filled? - circa 1980?
    • POG 3: 1 green stripe, bumper, grommet strip, modern head, ave. 356g/10.5 HL; "graphite series 110" printed on side (later variation read simply "graphite 110"); "Prince" and "graphite" at throat; foam-filled; circa 1983
    • POG 4: 4 green stripes, grommet strip, modern head, bumper, ave. 345g/8.5 HL; Printing: "GRAPHITE" in gold on crossbar, "Prince" and "Prince" in gold at throat, "110" in gold at 12:00, "Graphite 110" in green at side; foam-filled; circa 1987. At some point printing shifted to "Graphite Oversize" on side and "Oversize" at 12:00, but I don't know whether this corresponded to 4a, 4b, 4c, or 4d.
      • POG 4a: box beam with sharp corners, solid, stiff, damped, silver hologram; "Series 110" on side
      • POG 4b: solid, slightly less stiff, slightly rounder edges, green hologram
      • POG 4c: rare, silver hologram, "Made In Taiwan" on other side, roundest edges, less HL
      • POG 4d: white primer instead of black; squared edges like POG4a
    • POG 5: "Straight Shaft", lighter, less HL, less stiff, "nice pop"
    • POG 5.5: "20th Anniversary" "specs seem to be different"
    • POG 6: "Tour" - latest POG, very stiff, least HL of all, feels like different material than all others, hollow contraction (?), "worst version IMO"
     
  3. MAXXply

    MAXXply Hall of Fame

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    FWIW, I bought a used POG Mid as you have described. I thought the same as you when I got it - a "beefier", "boxier" mold, just shy of the EXO Mid 93 beamwidth but reminiscent of it. The edges just slightly more squared-off instead of the subtle roundedness of the later POG 90s. I'm too lazy to post pics ATM but "1987" is printed and to the right of it was the gripsize printed in the sans serif typeface Prince used at the time.

    I also have a POG Mid that I bought new in 1990. It too also has "1987" printed on the side but a hologram sticker to the right instead of the gripsize marking. The mold on this definitely looks different to the above and thinner. This mold looks like the one they're using on the current day TW reissues but I'm willing to be corrected.

    So I'm thinking sometime between 1987-1990 there was a manufacturing transition to a slightly different mold for the POG Mid?

    I won't proffer an opinion as to which versions of the POG lineage is best, merely to say that the foam-filled versions just feel better for me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
  4. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    Thanks Don't Let It Bounce! Looks like my latest POG 90 is a 4a.

    Besides slightly thicker, stiffer and have sharper edges, it's easier to string into a "narrower" shape (which I like) than my other 4cs without the needs of doing tricks like "stretching" the frame with the machine's frame-holder (on a stand-up machine that you can adjust the holder) and 5 lbs higher on cross etc.

    Almost like it is meant to be narrower anyway. Wheras the 4cs can get REALLY "round" esp. if it's strung on a desktop 2 point mounting machine.

    Also, I find it a tad head heavier than the 4cs, which make groundstrokes almost effortless for me if I string it with hybrids at 40s lbs :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
  5. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    Glad you also own it so it confirms the existence of it in batches and not just one or two anomalies :)

    BTW, I always dream that Aussie Open itself and all of its warm up tournaments will turn into ALL indoors one day :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
  6. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    I've got 3 POG 3 mids and a POG 2 OS on the way. And a Prince Boron Taiwan. All bought since Friday

    Thanks guys for inspiring me to spend the bux.

    I've been using 2 Prince Ripsticks - which were great 5 years ago but now are killing my wrist. Got a Babolat Pure Drive GT but haven't bonded with it.

    Tried an old Prince CTS Graduate 90 which was pretty good (felt better than the Babolat), but looking forward to getting the POGs and Boron.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  7. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    How do the grommetless POGs play? I've got 2 coming. I would wonder that the lack of grommets would chew up strings and give a "harsh" feeling?
     
  8. coachrick

    coachrick Hall of Fame

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    I would dare say the 'old' guys would have preferred the grommetless 'feel' of the 'direct drive' much the same way the Head staff players often stuck with the non-suspension handles. The original PG wasn't harsh in a brittle sense, IMO...just more racket than a lot of folks were used to...especially when strung in the upper 70s.

    If the finish of the frame is intact, there should be no additional wear on the strings from the lack of grommets. However, the holes inside the throat and those in the 'corners' of the hoop should be inspected carefully and tubed whenever the need is present.

    IF you find a grommetless PG that is in 'perfect' shape hoopwise, consider yourself lucky. The high tensions and two point mounting certainly could take its toll over the years.
     
  9. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    Thanks Coachrick!

    I'll take some pics and let you know. I both are presently strung but I'm intending to string them wih RPM Team 17 ga at 40 lbs - will try the low tension poly and see how it feels

    Cheers

    nigel
     
  10. coachrick

    coachrick Hall of Fame

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    Interesting string experiment...can't say I've ever tried poly in the 'original' rackets. I usually go for something 'age-appropriate' like nat gut or a soft multi. Let us know how they feel!
     
  11. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    I'll be playing a Prince Boron and POG mid 1 stripe tomorrow night - both with poly RPM Team 17.

    Tension is 53 for the Boron and 48 for the POG. The stringer went higher than I wanted - I asked for 40 for the Byron and 38 for the POG but I guess they thought they knew best and strung way higher as I mentioned in another thread - the tension has dropped a bit since then.

    Any I bought a stringer so I'll be doing my own racquets soon.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
  12. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    before i started stringing poly lower, i tried it in the POG OS 4 stripe and thought the stick felt really dead and assumed it wasn't a good match because the stick wasn't made for poly. fast forward a bit, i've dropped my tensions for poly and i found that poly in the low 50s for the POG OS plays amazingly well. in fact poly (discho iontec black 1.25) in the low 50s has none of the brassy feel that syn gut @ 58#s has.

    i can't go any lower than low 50s otherwise control is compromised.
     
  13. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    i'll string 18x20 mid or midplus sticks in the low 40s, but the POG mid is a 14x18 pattern. very open pattern at low tensions results in lack of control for me.

    i'm interested in hearing how 38 works out for you.
     
  14. TheLambsheadrep

    TheLambsheadrep Professional

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    I was reading how the first two renditions of the POG 110" had a more teardrop shape compared to the POG 3 through Tour (first of all, is this true? how different are the head shapes?). I recently got my POG 2, and by the end of a good hitting session this Sunday I could swear that the POG and my Head twin tube radical tours had the same shape. After I got home I laid them on each other, and it's as close as close can be. the biggest difference is that the handle for the POG is shorter so the POG has more throat to it, but the hoop and most of the throat of the two racquets are almost identical.

    The first thought in my head was that since Agassi started with the POG, when he switched to Head maybe they modeled the early radicals after the early POG. Again, this is a POG 2 (individual grommets), and I've read here that Agassi used the POG 3 and/or 4 professionally, which supposedly have different head shapes. Did Agassi ever use a 1st or 2nd generation POG while on tour, or maybe when he was up and coming?

    And this is prob a stupid question, but the tension says no less than 72lbs, will stringing it in the mid 50's to mid 60's hurt the frame at all?
     
  15. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    this has got to be some sort of trick question, right? it's gotta be. :shock:
     
  16. TheLambsheadrep

    TheLambsheadrep Professional

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    Hey, I'm just being extra careful :p . This stick is +30 years old, and while I don't see the harm in stringing at the range I asked about, the posted range on the frame has to be there for a reason
     
  17. Mike Bulgakov

    Mike Bulgakov Semi-Pro

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    I have a stock of old Fischer racquets that I normally use, but every once in awhile, I hit with a POG OS for fun. The racquet is a spin machine. It doesn't quite suit my game, but it is a great racquet and a lot of fun to hit with.
     
  18. 123ten

    123ten New User

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    I had a few 1st generation grommetless and some 4th generation 4 stripe OS POGs and regarding the tension stated, the rationale I gathered was that they were stated in the 70 lb range due to the relatively large head size (107") of these POGs compared to the mid size racquets (60-70") of that time and the strings used at that time (mostly natural).

    One of my 4 stripe OS POG was strung with synthetic gut at 70lbs and it felt great. Having said that, I had strung another at 58lbs with some multi-filament and it also felt ok. Just to see how it would feel, I strung another at 48lbs with natural gut and it wasn't that good. Some of the others were strung at 64lbs and they were good. So to answer your question, if you are especially using poly strings, you don't have to go to the 70lb range.

    --
     
  19. TheLambsheadrep

    TheLambsheadrep Professional

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    Thanks for the input! I normally do Kevlar/syn gut hybrids or full poly jobs. I like kevlar at 63lbs in my TT Radical Tours, and even though I've never had arm pain from it, I just don't know if 70lbs is too high for kevlar. I'll prob string it at 70lbs for at least one run, but if it hurts or doesn't play well, I'll drop it to 63lbs
     
  20. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    Just out of curiosity....Kevlar has no stretch what so ever, right?
    So, you can pull it at any tension, it won't budge!
    So 20 or 70 lbs should not make any difference.....No?
     
  21. PBODY99

    PBODY99 Hall of Fame

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    No, it does

    Most kevlar string jobs are hybrid. The cross string gives the string bed its feel.
     
  22. TheLambsheadrep

    TheLambsheadrep Professional

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    That, plus it saves the kevlar haha. a full bed of it is not necessary and it's on the expensive side as it is
     
  23. TheLambsheadrep

    TheLambsheadrep Professional

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  24. TheLambsheadrep

    TheLambsheadrep Professional

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    First, I would like for someone to at least try to answer my question above.

    Second, since no one seemed to know about POG 3 or later grommet strips/bumper guard fitting the POG 1 or 2, I went out on a limb and tried it myself. I bought 3 grommet sets from a seller here on the board knowing they might not, if not probably wont, fit. I can now say they DO NOT fit for two reasons - the drill pattern does not line up with the grommets and the grommets themselves are too thick for the frame holes. I would have cut them up to replicate individual grommets, but they won't even go in.

    So I just wanted to make the answer official known for anyone else that was wondering. I believe my plan now is to keep one or two sets (since I am looking for a POG 3 or 4) and sell the other, or keep just one and sell two. If anyone who checks this thread is interested, just send me a message or wait to see them in the "for sale" section. They are all brand new and I did not alter any of them to try to get them to fit
     
  25. BlueB

    BlueB Hall of Fame

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    Wrong thread. Deleted.
     
  26. Dino Lagaffe

    Dino Lagaffe Professional

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    Copied from the Post pictures of your racquets and tennis gear-thread

    My POGs. From the left are two one-stripes, two Tour Graphite OS, one Graphite 90 (four stripes), and finally six Graphite Midplus (four stripes).

    [​IMG]
     
  27. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    That's a drag - I have 2 POG 2 mids that need bumpers and grommets..
     
  28. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

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    a couple of random things I can think of:
    1. among all the POG OS 1-4, the best one is probably POG3, and it is the one Agassi used some time in his early days, I have seen picture of him holding that racket.
    2. in my humble opinion, POG1 or 2 is just a pain to maintain, due to grommets etc. unless you have one in mint condition, and plays 1hbh (due to short handle), otherwise it just takes too much effort.
    3. POG4 4stripe is a hit or miss, due to multiple versions/runs. I prefer ones made in Taiwan, and hate the ones made in thailand. and they weight almost 1oz different in stock form.
     
  29. TheLambsheadrep

    TheLambsheadrep Professional

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    Thanks for getting back to me MichaelChang, I've been eagerly awaiting your info! I def want to get my hands on a POG 3 and will prob keep my POG 2. Now that I took all the i.grommets out of it, could it almost be considered a POG 1, or were there noticeable spec differences between the POG 1 an 2? And I would be interested in a POG 4, but I use heavier racquets so when there are POG's out there at 13oz stock and I'd have to lead up a POG 4, it's kind of a turn off for now.
     
  30. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

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    POG4 is lighter than 1/2/3, the few Taiwan one I had is 12.5 but the ones from Thailand is below 12. I forgot how was the China made.

    For your inquiry regarding difference in specs between 1 and 2, I have to be honest that I forgot myself. I didn't keep any POG1. I kept myself 2 POG2 in mint condition and I remember it weights almost same as POG3 and the balance is also very close. Between 2 and 3, I think 3 is a little more stable on off-center shots, 2 is a little less powerful. I was once wondering, POG2 and 3 looks similar and without the bumper on 2, yet the stick still weights over 13oz just like POG3, amazing.
     
  31. TheLambsheadrep

    TheLambsheadrep Professional

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    Ya, I love that I don't have to modify my POG 2 at all :) . The POG 3 should make me happy, too, some day...
     
  32. Sinner

    Sinner Professional

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    Thanks OP for the info...

    Anybody got any specs for the POG 5 Straight-shaft OS? Thanks.
     
  33. BlueB

    BlueB Hall of Fame

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    Mine is 344g, 6 HL, 332 SW.

    Take note that I have only 2 overgrips (no leather grip) on it and some very very heavy 15 gut / 16 poly. With lighter strings and heavier grip, I guess it would weigh about the same or few grams more, while the ballance would be more HL and SW less. Hope it helps to some degree...
     
  34. Sinner

    Sinner Professional

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    ^ Thanks so much! Will take that into consideration!

    Do you have any older models or the current Tour model? Perhaps you might have an idea how the Straight-Shaft compares to those? I have the 4-stripe and a Tour, but might have an opportunity to pick up a Straight-Shaft... am considering it, but dunno how differently it plays. Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  35. Sinner

    Sinner Professional

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    Well, I picked-up the POG 5 Straight-Shaft OS today. I figured that I'd just add it to my collection anyway, despite how it plays.

    Just for reference, for what it's worth, here are the specs listed on the card.
    [​IMG]
     
  36. BlueB

    BlueB Hall of Fame

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    Plays like 4-stripe, but abit more HL. Those are my 2 favorite versions. I played with single stripe too, they have too much SW for my taste.
     
  37. Sinner

    Sinner Professional

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    Been playing with the POG 6 Tour quite a bit over the past few weeks. Took the 4-stripe out the other day and it hit me just how much more HH it felt vs the Tour. Can't wait to take the Straight-Shaft out for a spin.
     
  38. D-A-C

    D-A-C New User

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    Thought I would share my collection of Prince Graphites.

    From R to L Graphite 90, Graphite Straight Shaft, Tour 110, Tour 93, EXO93, and Blacked out EXO93

    [​IMG]
     
  39. Sinner

    Sinner Professional

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    Nice blacked-out prototype! Is that a black/grey leather grip too?
     
  40. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    1. Wondering which optic yellow string and gauge you're using? Poly EXP 17?

    2. BTW, does the Straight Shaft 93 play exactly the same as the Tour 93 for you?

    Thanks for you input in advance!
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
  41. D-A-C

    D-A-C New User

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    Its not leather but a Prince Dura tac grip.
     
  42. D-A-C

    D-A-C New User

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    1. The yellow / green optic string is Yonex Poly Tour Pro 16 (125).

    2. The rackets play differently due to the stings, the SS 93 has Yonex Poly Tour strung at 56, where as the Tour 93 is string either Genesis Black Magic or MSV Hex Focus - I just cant remember which. Again strung at 56. The Yonex string plays a little softer TBH.
     
  43. D-A-C

    D-A-C New User

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    How do you think the tour 90 plays versus the SS then?
     
  44. Sinner

    Sinner Professional

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    I haven't hit a lot with the SS and I use an oversize. But as both are using different strings (Tour has syn gut, while SS has Gamma tnt) and at different tensions, it's hard to make a direct comparison. Both have a similar balance and weight though... def more HL than my 4-stripe.
     
  45. eman resu

    eman resu Semi-Pro

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    What's the balance and stiffness?

    Is it much better than the Wilson Sting 2 Largehead?
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2013
  46. Tamiya

    Tamiya Semi-Pro

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    I don't think anything W has ever made anything that feels like a POG :(
     
  47. gtshark1

    gtshark1 Rookie

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    I recently played back to back sets with a Wilson 6.1 classic and a POG mid. The 6.1 is a racquet that's stayed in my possession for a long time because I "think" it's the greatest racquet ever made. I hadn't used it forever because of my tie to another company. The POG mid was a recent purchase brand new from TW because I'm more and more tireing of trying to find a newer tech racquet that feels best.

    I figured the 6.1 and POG would play/feel/perform similarly because of the mainly graphite construction, size and weight. After playing the set with the 6.1 (6-3 which felt amazing and had me playing at a level with confidence I hadn't felt in years), I played a 2 set against the same opponent with POG. Started down 0-2 right off the bat. Racquets felt the same in general but I wasn't getting the depth I got with the 6.1. After a mental adjustment and aiming for higher trajectory/deeper depth, the set went similar to the first with a 6-2 final score.

    Summary- I have confirmed with myself that the new tech cant give me the same confidence i have with the 6.1 and the POG. They feel similar but some adjustments needed to be made to get the most out of the respective frames. These racquets are top of the class for me compared to what I've tried from the new generation.
     
  48. dak95_00

    dak95_00 Professional

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    ^^^^Being a long time POG user and an occasional 6.1 Classic user, I agree w/ you completely that they feel very similar. What you noticed IMO is that the open string pattern of the POG adds spin the 16x18 or 18x20 Wilsons don't have. I'd suggest the power and stiffness/feel are nearly identical other than the spin potential.
     
  49. dak95_00

    dak95_00 Professional

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    I had a curious play yesterday. I'd just strung up a 4 stripe POG 90 w/ Prince Beast and another POG single stripe 1984 90 w/ another poly both at 60 lbs. I hit w/ each for about 20 minutes and then switched to a recent POG Tour MP which again was strung w/ another poly at 60 but the strings were much older.

    Here is the best description i can give:
    1) The flight of all of my shots were consistent. I didn't like any of them better than the next. For me, that's a good thing.
    2) The tour and 4 stripe each had some vibration and more on off center hits.
    3) The 1984 had no vibration. I don't dampeners. It just made a thud each time the ball was struck whether in the center or not. The only difference is I used tubing in two places.

    Will tubing in the strings reduce vibration and act as a dampener?
     
  50. gtshark1

    gtshark1 Rookie

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    Agree 100%. I didn't consider the 14X18 compared to the 16X18 bèing the slight difference but now that you mention it- I think that's a perfect analysis. Early in the match with the POG I was dumping regular shot in the net and hitting a bit short. The added spin makes sense.

    Again, after the trajectory and swing adjustment it was great. Both the 6.1 Classic and POG are just superb compared to the new lines.

    Thanks for the comments. You are spot on!
     

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