Prince Original Graphite ( POG ) Mid and OS versions

Discussion in 'Classic Racquet Talk' started by scottatuofm, Apr 24, 2010.

  1. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    It did get longer. The early 1 stripes were short handled as you know. I've got some later 1 stripes and they are comfortably 2 handed size grips
     
  2. EBauman

    EBauman New User

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    What about the shape of the handle? I just got a 1 stripe with no grommets and the handle was more rectangular than other Princes I have owned. When did that change?
     
  3. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    Will check and report back later today
     
  4. makinao

    makinao Rookie

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    I got the Made In Taiwan 4-stripe OS 110 today. The grip is about 20cm longer than my 1-stripe, and the crossbar is about 15cm higher. The head shape is pretty much the same.

    EBauman, the grip (original leather) is on the 4-stripe is squarer, although I"m not 100% sure because my 1-stripe has a replacement cushioned grip.
     
  5. BlueB

    BlueB Hall of Fame

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    That would be 2cm=20mm and 1.5cm=15mm, of course...
     
  6. Sanglier

    Sanglier Rookie

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    Maker of 1st Gen POG

    I'm not sure how many people knew this (or care to), but I believe this information belongs in this thread.

    Kuebler lists the release date of the POG as 1977. If true, then the BBC "Graphite 1000" couldn't have been the first all graphite frame made with an "enlarged head", unless both frames were released a year before either company bought magazine ads. As I noted in my last post in the Fox thread (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=368101&page=3), the 1978 ad in World Tennis for the "Graphite 1000" was the first I saw to make this claim. I didn't see any ad for POG before the May 1978 issue - the final issue in this particular library's collection, unfortunately. :(

    Nevertheless, it is entirely plausible that prototypes of POG were being trialed in 1977, and I am now 100% certain that the company that made these first generation POGs was Fansteel, or rather 'American Sports Equipment', a spin-off of the Fansteel department responsible for tennis racquet design and manufacture, headed by David Fernandez (who incidentally also oversaw the development of the first successful graphite golf club shafts at Fansteel, in 1973!).

    Fansteel had been working on graphite tennis racquet designs since at least 1974, when they submitted their first patent application. Over the next two years, they filed many more applications, eight of which were eventually granted. Fansteel released the "Super Graphite" under their own brand in 1977 (sold by mail order with "money back guarantee"), but seemed to have made several OEM frames as early as 1975, and many more later on under the American Sports Equipment banner. The grommetless POG was probably the most successful of that bunch. My guess is that when Prince eventually decided to give that contract to Kunnan Lo, it was a huge blow to American Sports Equipment, and was one of the main reasons David Fernandez chose to refocus his efforts on golf equipment development instead.

    I should mention here that while Howard Head was credited with the overall shape of the Prince racquet design, the engineering that went into making the POG was largely the work of a Fansteel mechanical engineer - Andrew (Andy) Mathias Cecka, a Minnesotan transplant who was responsible for 6 of the 8 Fansteel patents. Like many of those early engineers in the composite equipment business, Cecka also had a defense/aerospace industry background, and must have worked with David Fernandez since they were both employed at Azusa.

    Sadly, Mr. Cecka passed away earlier this year. I doubt that very many people who read his obituary fully appreciate the role he actually played in helping to usher in (for better or worse) the modern era in tennis racquet design and manufacture:

    http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/latimes/obituary.aspx?pid=165190007

    I think he (along with other unrecognized and forgotten pioneers of that period, many of whom are now in their twilight years) deserves to be acknowledged and remembered for his contributions.

    ------------
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
  7. makinao

    makinao Rookie

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    Oops. Yes, you're right.
     
  8. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    Didn't realize Mr. Cecka is a fellow Trojan... wondering whether he was aware of the fact in the mid to late 90s, almost 3/4 of the players in those national championship teams were using POG 90s and 110s - the ultimate tributes to his works.
     
  9. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    nice post, Sanglier. thanks for sharing.
     
  10. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    Graphite II OS versus the POG OS

    I just saw a post in the FS thread for some Graphite II OS. How different are they compared to the POG OS?

    I have the 4 stripe POG OS. One says Graphite 110 on the side of the throat and 110 at the top of the hoop. My 2nd one says oversize in the respective places.

    I'm also interested in the POG posted on TW. It says TOUR on the throat.

    Which ones are different and which are the same???

    Thank you.
     
  11. Don't Let It Bounce

    Don't Let It Bounce Hall of Fame

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    Your two 4-stripes are the same racket made at two different times, possibly in two different places. (The "110" was certainly made in Taiwan; the "Oversize" was made later and maybe elsewhere; mine was made in Thailand.) Prince's marketing department eventually discontinued the practice of calling the OS version "110" and the MS "93", but it was just a name change. They should play the same.

    The "Tour" is the modern incarnation and is a little different: slightly stiffer, less headlight, and different layup – raw materials having changed over the years and the damping coming from one of the wall layers instead of from a foam core. It wouldn't be too hard for most 4-stripe players to switch to it, but with so many 4-stripes floating around the used market, they don't really have to.

    The Graphite II was a different animal, Prince's attempt to do what Wilson did: make a wide body (it was the Pro Staff Classic for Wilson) whose name and color remind consumers of the company's iconic non-widebody frame. Its feel won't remind you of your 4-stripes.
     
  12. eman resu

    eman resu Semi-Pro

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    I'm considering a switch back to the POG3 OS. I am/was using the Chang MP LB, but the POG OS might give me more feel and predictability. I left it because I was having a hard time swinging it through 3 sets of singles (370g), but it always excelled on doubles. Let's see now...
     
  13. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    DLIB - Thanks for the info. You pretty much echoed what my friend who is a long time Prince Graphite user says. I'll just keep waiting for a 4 stripe to show up. This is probably by far my favorite racquet. I can't wait to get back to it as right now I'm at the closing end of my Babolat PLAY play test.
     
  14. shamaho

    shamaho New User

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    I played both of them, going from POG OS -> PSC61 -> PS90 and now finally and recently to the POG Mid !

    I can really say that POG, and the Mid in particular has the definite classic feel some of us enjoy so much, much more so than any of the recent PS90 incarnations dating back to the nCode (in my experience).

    As for the stiffness of PSC61 vs POG or POG Mid, for me at least, POGs felt stiffer because the feel had/have a crisper quality to them, the beam was thinner than PSC61 leading to a stiffer feeling contact...

    All subjective but... anyway...
     
  15. shamaho

    shamaho New User

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    Very definitely give it a month to get used to it.
    I remember the first time I started playing with it, had pain in the wrists, then the top coach at the club told me that was normal and to to give a month or so... my arms would get used it.

    and yep! that's exactky what happened.

    funny thing is... for me, coming back to the POG after more than a decade or so... It's all happening again... :)
     
  16. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    I am going to start my transition back to my POG OS from the Babolat Pure Drive Play test. Interested in trying out a hybrid.

    Prev set up have been smooth and shaped poly's at mid tension and synthetic at max tension (was used to seat grommet replacements, and actually played okay).

    Your fav OS string up suggestions greatly appreciated.
    (moderate top spin, prefer using kick serve, all courter who will go to the net on short balls or pressure opponent)
     
  17. WhyNotLetItFly

    WhyNotLetItFly New User

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    Also using a Babolat Play but found a cool old Graphite II OS this week and cleaned it up a bit. Strung it at 62 with Hexaspin Twist in the mains and A multi in the crosses. Very fun set up but high powered so a lower tension full bed of poly would worth a try too.
     
  18. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    I was playing my 1 stripe POG Mid yesterday- great feel and touch. Damn nice sticks
     
  19. Stroke

    Stroke Rookie

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    I love the POG OS, but I feel one racquet out there may make the POG users consider switching, the Pro Kennex Ki5 PSE. To me, it is even more solid on contact than the POG. It does have a higher swing weight, but to me, it is not a huge jump. Would like to hear feedback if any other POG users have tried this racquet. Also to me, the PSE version of this racquet is way different from the regular Ki5 that so many have hit with.
     
  20. Sinner

    Sinner Professional

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    Just picked this up and wanted to share... Made in Taiwan and brand new!
    I think it falls under the 4.5 category... MidPlus at the top.
    Unstrung w/ leather grip, it comes in at around 345g!
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
  21. 000KFACTOR90000

    000KFACTOR90000 Professional

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    Still the best looking stick out there :)
     
  22. flair

    flair New User

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    Weren't all the 4 stripe POG 90 was made in Taiwan? Sorry for the ignorance on this topic but I am curious to know what POG I own...
     
  23. Sinner

    Sinner Professional

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    ^ I'm not sure, but I was always under the impression that some 4-stripes later came out of China... of course I can be totally wrong.

    Do you guys know if the current POS Mid grommets will fit on the 4-stripe? Just thinking ahead.
     
  24. jonestim

    jonestim Professional

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    Look about 13 posts up -

     
  25. Sinner

    Sinner Professional

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    Posted this in the POG Mid thread in "Racquets"... thought I'd share in here as well...

    Strung'd (syn gut), rubberband'd & TournaGrip'd... for a grand total of 361g... I think this is my heaviest stick!
     
  26. peter.aviano

    peter.aviano New User

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    Is this an original?

    Hey all

    I just got this from a friend who does not play tennis at all... looks like one of the older models....can someone authenticate if this is an original... and which POG version this one could be?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  27. peter.aviano

    peter.aviano New User

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    Some more images...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  28. Sinner

    Sinner Professional

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    Wow, that looks like a 1st gen... with the lack of a head-guard. Condition looks pretty good too. Good find!

    Do you have digital scale?
     
  29. peter.aviano

    peter.aviano New User

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    I dont .. but let me get see if I can borrow one and see what the static weight is.
     
  30. Sinner

    Sinner Professional

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    ^ No big deal... just curious! :)
     
  31. struggle

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    the first version was grommet-less i believe.
     
  32. prolord89

    prolord89 New User

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  33. dak95_00

    dak95_00 Professional

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    Those look to me to be the first of the MP versions known as the 90s but are 93s. In the original post from this thread, these would've come out in 1983/1984. Without the leather, I'd suggest $40-50 shipped is a fair price for the pair shipped. These are great racquets and I still play them as my daily racquet. There is no way I'd pay more than $60 for the pair!
     
  34. prolord89

    prolord89 New User

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    Do you think the racquets from the seller fall into POG3 category?
     
  35. dak95_00

    dak95_00 Professional

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    YES!!!!

    These racquets are 30 years old. They are the FIRST 90s produced by Prince. The POG4 had four stripes. The next was the "straight shaft" followed by the most recent Tour.
     
  36. prolord89

    prolord89 New User

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    Compare to the POG4, does the POG3 have any difference in weight, feel, swing-speed, swing-weight and headlight? or just the cosmetic is different?
     
  37. dak95_00

    dak95_00 Professional

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    I'm not the kind of player to notice much but the single stripes are a little heavier and more solid than the 4 stripes. I feel this way about each generation moving forward but it is slight. The OS versions have a little more significant changes. If you can get them for $40 or less, it's a good deal. TW still sells the bumper & grommets.
     
  38. retrowagen

    retrowagen Hall of Fame

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    I just picked up a nice specimen of circa 1984-1987 Graphite Series 125.

    It amazes me that there may have been players out there, for whom a 110 simply didn't provide enough hitting surface!

    yikes
     
  39. Sarcastic

    Sarcastic New User

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    The magnesium 125 actually played ok. All of the Mags played well. The Graphite 125 seemed unwieldy.
     
  40. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    I'm scoring 2 x 4 stripes and 2 x 1 stripes
    (OS/110/107/whatever)

    for free....

    where are folks getting grommets these days?
     
  41. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    Last time I checked, TW had them
     
  42. Sinner

    Sinner Professional

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    I bought some from TW a few years ago (presumably it was for the Tour model). No problems fitting them onto my 4-stripe OS.
     
  43. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    just got these babies.
    [​IMG]

    will the bumper/grommet sets fit the one-stripe (these have the individual grommets)?

    edit: on closer inspection, it appears not.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2014
  44. the hack

    the hack New User

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    cool pickup the last three 1 stripes I bought on e-bay were all cracked. I hope you had better luck with your new rackets. I am always looking for good 1stripes if anyone has any.
     
  45. prolord89

    prolord89 New User

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    hey guys! 2 questions from me about the pog4. Does the pog has "90" on top play different from the pog has "midplus"? Does the one made in Thailand play different from the one made in china?
     
  46. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    Shoot me an e-mail. I have a source.
     
  47. the hack

    the hack New User

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    how do I get your e-mail?
     
  48. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    Message/email me through my profile.

    I tried to email you through your profile, but it states that you wish not to receive emails via TW/TT.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2014
  49. the hack

    the hack New User

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    Sent you an e-mail.
     
  50. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    post deleted
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2014

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