Priority One, Stringing & Customizing, and The Hall Of Fame

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by drakulie, Sep 6, 2012.

  1. AlfaAce

    AlfaAce Rookie

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    :cool: Yeah, the clientele obviously speaks for itself. Of course, all those guys can afford anything they want. Had no idea that P1 has been in the biz for 20+ years. I would like to experience the P1 difference first hand. Hope I get the opportunity someday. Congrats again, and I second this as a "GOAT THREAD!"
     
  2. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    why doesn't these guys make P1 rackets ?
     
  3. usta2050

    usta2050 Rookie

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    Low margin, too competitive, can't pay the big $$$ for sponsorships...

    Quality rackets don't sell. Top players sell rackets.
     
  4. ART ART

    ART ART Semi-Pro

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    1000% correct! :)
     
  5. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Then again maybe you are under the illusion that Wilson makes Federer's rackets. That being the case why does he need to go to P1?
     
  6. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    sorry, I am completely missing your point. All racquets for retail are made in China. Do you know for a fact that Federer's racquets aren't made in China or aren't made by Wilson in Chicago?
     
  7. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Just trying to say that P1 modifies the rackets in such a way that they are not like the rackets anyone can buy off the shelf. Why would anyone pay $40K/yr for rackets they can buy off the shelf?
     
  8. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    OH, OK. Well because Federer makes $2M/year on his Wilson deal alone. 40K to him is like a nickel to you and me.

    P1 also ensures that all his frames are identical and probably most importantly builds him a custom grip. They also follow him world wide and string for him.

    When you have made $8M in a year and $76M in a career, $40K a year to make sure your tools are perfect is hardly noticeable.
     
  9. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I had a friend that worked on the assembly line for Ford. He told everyone he built trucks. I am sure he didn't build the whole trucks from scratch. Like I said who says P1 does not build rackets?

    EDIT: I guess it would have been more correct to say P1 (and others) provides customized rackets and services to their customers.

    EDIT: Are Jimmie Johnson's cars made by Chevrolet or Hendrick Motorsports?
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2012
  10. ART ART

    ART ART Semi-Pro

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    interesting... are you saying that P1 buy the mold/racket from Wilson, Head, Babolat, and then they make the rackets?

    If so, in wich factory? wich materials they use to produce the rackets? where they get those materials? do P1 have they'r one production line ?...

    Check this post from Ron P1:
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=6791146&postcount=37

    Can you explain it more?

    Thank's
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2012
  11. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    .........................
     
  12. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    OK, so you're really arguing semantics. Got it.
     
  13. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    No I didn't say that, but I do think that play a big role in the completion of the racket.
     
  14. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    I know that you should mount racquets with the butt cap facing up, but look at fed's frame. The butt cap is upside down. You can see this because on most racquets including that one, if the W on the butt cap is facing up then so is the Wilson logo on the top of the racquet.

    Anyone know why fed's is like this?
     
  15. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    What does the direction of the butt cap have to do with mounting/stringing?
     
  16. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    this is really not an apples to apples comparison if you agree that Wilson's mold is used and the frame itself, the hairpin, is manufactured by some entity other than P1. NASCAR cars are basically one-offs which have never been around a Big 3 manufacturing plant.
     
  17. RJYU

    RJYU Rookie

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    The buttcap is not upside down. All of his buttcaps are put on the same way. Maybe not the same way as the factory puts on the buttcaps, but we put them all on the same way for Roger as in the above picture. The buttcap and the way the grip is started go hand in hand because their orientation dictates how Roger holds the racquet.
     
  18. RJYU

    RJYU Rookie

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    At P1, we always try to mount the racquet with the logo on the buttcap facing up. Not for any playability issues, but we want to have the grommets compressed the same way and also use same tie off holes. Again, not necessarily for a playability reason, but mainly for aesthetics. We want all the racquets in the player's bag to look identical, right down to the tie off placement in relation to the buttcap orientation.
     
  19. bcart1991

    bcart1991 Semi-Pro

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    The Devil is in the details. Wonderful work, wonderful thread.
     
  20. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    Does everyone at P1 string in exactly the same way, with the same technique for starting mains, same pattern (for any given racquet) and same knots? Or do you have personal preferences?

    I remember some time ago one of the members of this board got his hands on a Federer match racquet, and you commented that it wasn't one of yours. I wasn't sure if that's because you can spot your own handiwork from 100 yards, or if the owner revealed which tournament it was from and you knew someone else was stringing Roger's racquets there.
     
  21. RJYU

    RJYU Rookie

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    We all use the same patterns on the clients' racquets, due to the fact we want the knots to be in the same place. We don't all use the same knots because we each came into the company using different knots, and the knots don't make a difference in our end product. Nate and Glynn use a nice tidy knot, and I use a humongous ugly knot, or as Nate likes to call, "that beehive piece of sh**." :)
     
  22. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    ^^^Thanks so much for clearing this up for me Ron:)
     
  23. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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    I'd like to see this knot. :)
     
  24. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    The beehive is stronger. You win. Cool read, thanks for posting. :)
     
  25. RJYU

    RJYU Rookie

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    Its not the actual beehive knot. Its just that its almost as big as the beehive knot. I think the actual beehive knot is outdated, and no longer necessary as long as you have a starting clamp. Just my opinion.
     
  26. Squidward

    Squidward Rookie

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    So is this "Beehive Knot" basically a Starting Knot?
     
  27. ericsson

    ericsson Hall of Fame

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    What surprises me is that the knots i've seen from you guys are all pretty tight and short cutted, especially the gut. I was wondering if there was a moment the gut actually snapped when making the knot?
    The reason i'm asking cos it actually happend to me trying to do the same ;-)

    (Babolat VS 1.25mm)
     
  28. mmk

    mmk Professional

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    I had the same thought, but from what I've seen your numbers are a bit light. I saw more like $40M/year over the last few years. At that rate, $40K/year is the same, percentage-wise, as paying $100/year for string jobs to someone making $100K/year.
     
  29. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    mmk I think your figures are a little bit off. You're assuming the $40K includes the price of all the customization work and stringing. I think the $40k is just so they're available to your beck and call for premier tournaments. Services are extra. It costs a lot of money to haul machines, supplies, and personnel around the world. You figure they need to be there for three weeks just for one major, that is 12 weeks a year for just the 4 majors. Expenses (airfare, lodging, meals, and misc) for one person for 12 weeks does not come cheap.

    Would you follow a challenger around the challenge circuit for $100/yr and customize and string all his rackets? Would you follow Roger Federer around for a year for just $40K? Even at $40K a year if P1 only had one customer they would go belly up pretty quick if they did not have the ability to bill for services.

    Truth be known I don't think the guys at P1 are making as much as it seems. Why do you think Ron told Rick he would never string another racket if he won the lottery.

     
  30. mmk

    mmk Professional

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    I was just using the $40K from your earlier post, I have no idea how much he is spending at P1, or for that matter if he is the one actually paying the bill. Wilson may be on the hook for that. Plus, my understanding is that P1 doesn't go to every tournament, only the big ones. There are a couple of contributors here who could correct me on that if I'm wrong.
     
  31. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    As always, thanks for the info. I was worried there was something I'd never been told! :)
     
  32. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I did not realize there was an actual beehive knot. I just thought you had some unique bulky knot.
     
  33. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    Always good to have a signature move. Makes you stand out from the journeymen in the crowd. ;-)
     
  34. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, I use the double hitch to stand out from the crowd ;)
     
  35. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    ^^^Ron, would you be willing to explain how to tie this knot? I have always wanted to know how you tie your knots. I have seen many pictures but I can never figure out how.
     
  36. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Ron, great to see you participating in the thread. Many thanks and hope all is well with you guys!
     
  37. sixone90

    sixone90 Professional

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    Hey Ron, someone told me you used to take an average of 10 swingweights when measuring the swingweight of racquets with the Babolat RDC. Wondering if you still do that?
     
  38. WileyCoyote

    WileyCoyote Rookie

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    Logistics

    For Drak and those of you on the inside who might know, I was wondering who and or how the racquets, string and other supplies get to and out of Priority One.

    For example, does a Federer staff person bring and pick up his stuff or might a Wilson person interface with P1? Or a combination of both? Who makes sure P1 has the correct string and current instructions for the task at hand?

    Thanks,

    Harry
     
  39. RJYU

    RJYU Rookie

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    Since we don't have an RDC, that information would be incorrect. We use Prince machines to measure swingweight. We don't need to take an average of 10 because they are quite accurate if used and maintained properly.
     
  40. kkm

    kkm Semi-Pro

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    Drak, is there a particular reason why the lower cross tieoff grommet is #11 and not #9?
     
  41. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    It is much harder to get a second string in 9H because it is a blocked hole by the string going from 8H to 10H.
     
  42. kkm

    kkm Semi-Pro

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    I enlarge and use 8T to tie the mains. I enlarge and use 9H and 9T to tie the crosses, and enlarge both the rightside and leftside 9H and 9T, along with both 7T, so that blocked holes are not an issue.

    And actually I asked why in the picture the lower cross tieoff was 11T and not 9T, not why 9H is not a tieoff (it is). If you look at the picture you will see that 9H is used as the upper cross tieoff.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2012
  43. andtapes

    andtapes Rookie

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    post error
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2012
  44. uk_skippy

    uk_skippy Hall of Fame

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    Unless my eyes deceive me, Dimitrov's string is gut mains/4g crosses. Other than points raised above re:tie-off positions I believe P1 tie-off poly onto poly crosses, and not poly crosses on gut mains.

    Regards

    Paul
     
  45. kkm

    kkm Semi-Pro

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    Thank you for the reply, Paul, and yes, in the racquet in the photo, the mains are gut and the crosses poly.

    When stringing 2-piece I tie mains to mains and crosses to crosses.

    But if the lower cross tieoff in the racquet in the photo were 9T instead of 11T it would still be poly tied onto poly, with a shorter distance from the bottom cross to the tieoff, and 9T still offers plenty of space to tie a knot.
     
  46. uk_skippy

    uk_skippy Hall of Fame

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    ^^Of that I don't know, unless it was strung 3rd cross to btm cross to 2nd cross which would reduce distance to tie-off hole.

    Regards

    Paul
     
  47. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    kkm, this is the method I used to string Dimitrov's frames, and many other wilson frames. Main reason is to shorten distance to the tie-off.

    cheers!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2012
  48. kkm

    kkm Semi-Pro

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    ah ok, Wilson/****-style, 3rd cross to bottom cross and 2nd cross last, thanks for explaining!
     
  49. pauliewa

    pauliewa New User

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    I just learned a few of the atw patterns and am confused by this. Anyone care to enlighten me? The ss does 3rd cross, long side main, to bottom cross, then ties off? Long side does the rest?
     
  50. kkm

    kkm Semi-Pro

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    In this case it's not a reference to any atw pattern, ss, or ls; it's just the way that the lowest crosses are done. The 3rd cross is done, then the bottom cross (skipping the 2nd cross), and last of all the 2nd cross before tying off.
     

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