Pro Kennex Black Ace 22 x 30 - Help!

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by Harl Goodman, Oct 19, 2011.

  1. Harl Goodman

    Harl Goodman New User

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    Wow ... this string pattern is NUTS!

    If you've strung one of these -
    How much string does it require?

    Would anything bigger than 18g be a ridiculous choice?

    Do you drop the tension a few pounds from what you usually like on a
    WIDE OPEN 18 x 20 pattern?

    Any other helpful tips?

    ... just plain nuts ...
     
    #1
  2. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    #2
  3. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    22 x 30?! Please post a picture!!!

    Tips... hmm

    If they're yours, say f-it and get a new frame.

    If they're your friend's, say f-it I'm not stringing a 22 x 30 frame.
     
    #3
  4. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=4021442&postcount=15

    I wonder what the spin (or lack of spin) was like with that? I don't think thin gauge poly even existed when this racquet was first released? Sounds more like a S&V stick for the 'back in the day' crowd.
     
    #4
  5. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    I have mine strung with 17g syn gut at 35 lbs (or 40?). You'll need 15 meters for the job. Or may be a bit more (+ half a meter to be on the safe side).

    As for spin ... you've got to try it. It's all up to your technique. The spin will be more sort of penetrating than loopy.

    I still use mine from time to time for the fun of it. I don't play competitive tennis, BTW. The control is rediculous, the softness is WOW! And it can really hit some heavy balls.

    And for the thin beam? Modern thin beams are just no match to the PK micro's.
     
    #5
  6. Don't Let It Bounce

    Don't Let It Bounce Hall of Fame

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    Has anyone tried badminton string in a Micro? Seems like a >18 gauge ought to be available, but I don't know if it has the same shear strength as the 20 gauge that used to be available for those racquets.
     
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  7. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    No. Badminton strings won't work. They're not design to take tension over 35 lbs, let alone the impact of a tennis ball travelling at 60 mph.

    I've once accidentally used squash strings on my racket. The ball just wouldn't want to go even hitting it real hard.
     
    #7
  8. alexgeorge

    alexgeorge New User

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    Black Ace Micro Head sizes

    Hey guys, How are you. I just bought a Black ace Micro, the 22 X30 string version but, the thing is I really need to get over this but cant, See I cant help but notice the black ace micro on 80s-tennis.com

    http://www.80s-tennis.com/pages/pro-kennex-black-ace-micro.html

    has a large head frame, looks like an oversize frame. AND its a 22 X 30 version.

    The Black Ace micro I bought is exactly thesame, looks thesame, Even HAS thesame 22 X 30 strings.. but the thing is, its oval headed. Only~ 85sq.

    Its not a wide circular head size like the 80s-tennis picture, and I really wanted to know if there is not just one head size made for the black ace micro, But TWO headsizes?

    Is that true? Because it has to be. I cant help but believe that it only exists as an oval head because the 80s-tennis picture is circular, And I know people tell me he just showed at a different view, but even if he did, it looks more circular then any other angle shot photo.
     
    #8
  9. alexgeorge

    alexgeorge New User

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    Black Ace Micro Head sizes

    Oh I got it. Yes It only came in one size, The head was just widened when the photo showned the head pointing up, and as the head of my racket was pointing to right or left, it looks more oval. I see
     
    #9
  10. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    22 x 30.

    Weird! Very weird!
     
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  11. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    hahahaha ... that's the early 80's!

    It was the time when tennis tech was in search of enlightenment. Or, may be, the "hippie days" of tennis tech. :p
     
    #11
  12. alexgeorge

    alexgeorge New User

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    I have my Black ace micro's tension at 28lbs I think. Can this work on it. It says It takes 33 lbs and I have my tension low because I dont like it to be stiff.


    Badminton string

    FEATURES ADVANTAGES SPECIFICATIONS
    Material Nylon Multifilaments

    Gauge 21 (.75mm)

    Length
    660 Ft (200M) Reel
    Colors Gold, Natural
    2,000 multifilaments in central core for superior resiliency

    Tough braided wear layer extends string life

    Multifilament core utilizes MAX filament orientation technology Usage:
    Top amateur and professional players

    Power players looking for superior durability

    Stringing tension:
    up to 33 lbs (15 Kgs)
     
    #12
  13. alexgeorge

    alexgeorge New User

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    Shouldnt the 22X30 frame be able to keep it from breaking?
     
    #13
  14. alexgeorge

    alexgeorge New User

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    Its a nylon multifilament and its 33lbs max tension string but the problem is its a badminton 0.75mm string. If thats strung 22x30 what do you think will happen. I expected the micro to be capable iof holding that due to its extreme density.
     
    #14
  15. alexgeorge

    alexgeorge New User

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    Its 21 gauge
     
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  16. corners

    corners Legend

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    String it up with kevlar 19 at 40 pounds in the mains. Then string 15g Luxilon 4G in every other cross at 65 pounds. You'll have a 22x15 pattern spin monster that will make Wilson and 99S owners horribly envious. The 22 kevlar mains will still give you good control and shot to shot consistency on flat balls.
     
    #16
  17. alexgeorge

    alexgeorge New User

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    Thanks so much man, that Kevlar combo is something I want to see. Im really interested trying many alternatives to get this racket to make it at the best it can be, like a modified version, because once this guy said to me rom scratch this racket is bad but if you modify the right strings it can be so powerful .
    If you can you please help me out, I have email or msnmessenger, I am a tennis player and I got a a few coaches today to help me out but they arent familiar with this as you are :(

    You guys know more about this that I do :) Im Alex btw

    Um corners would you know if a badminton string that can withstand 40 lbs (say 0.85-0.90 mm, compared to weaker 0.6-0.65mm) can actually work in this too?

    My email: ferrarithunder@hotmail.com
     
    #17
  18. alexgeorge

    alexgeorge New User

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    I think you have told me once to use Gosen polymaster2, is that better than the Luxilon 4G?

    Oh and Corners I do have these strings in one of these my packets would they work good as well?

    I have the kevlar aramid- Gamma TNT Extreme Spin 19 gauge


    and Gosen Powermaster II? what do you think


    http://www.stringforum.net/stringdb.php?show=95&count=1

    and

    http://www.stringforum.net/stringdb.php?show=2648&count=1
     
    #18
  19. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    Alex, if you string a racket yourself, why not do an experiment with badminton string? It might work. At worst you're going to either have a racket that wouldn't want to send the ball over the net, or break the strings in a matter of seconds.
     
    #19
  20. alexgeorge

    alexgeorge New User

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    Ok thanks Anirut yes I will try it out. :p


    Hey Corner, I also have one more question. You know how you said use kevlar and co poly. If I used Natural gut instead of co poly, with the kevlar would that be better or worse? say its the babolat bt7 (top ng)
     
    #20
  21. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Why do people think there would be a lack of spin with a tight pattern? I don't get this.
     
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  22. corners

    corners Legend

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    Powermaster II is a syngut, or nylon string. It is not stiff enough or slippery enough to work optimally in a 22x15 pattern. Polymaster I or II would be great because both are flat, which will help the mains slide even easier. But Polymaster is quite a soft copoly, which is why I suggested 4G, which is stiff and holds tension fantastically well. With so few cross strings you want a very stiff copoly that stay stiff over time. Polymaster is definitely worth a try though.

    Powermaster II would be a really good string to try if you strung up the racuqet as it was intended, as a 22x30.

    That Gamma multi you linked to would be the worst choice for cross in this pattern. You want a stiff, slippery and hard-surfaced string - a copoly in other words. Multis are flexible, gummy and soft-surfaced. They make terrible cross strings if your objective is to promote freely moving main strings.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
    #22
  23. corners

    corners Legend

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    Well, the conventional wisdom is that open patterns make more spin, closed patterns less. Whether there is much of a difference between 16x19 and 18x20 is debatable, and I'm not aware of any objective evidence that says anything one way or another.

    But when we start talking about 18x20 vs. 16x15 or 16x9, then there is objective evidence: http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringpattern.php

    What that paper shows is that the larger the spaces between the strings the less interstring friction there is, and therefore the easier it is for the mains to slide sideways and snapback with enough gusto to generate extra spin. This is especially so with fewer cross strings, but fewer mains also was shown to increase spin.

    The idea with the Pro Kennex Micros was that lots of strings would increase the contact area with the ball, increasing total ball-string friction and thereby increasing spin. But it didn't work. Instead, people claimed that the ball slid off the strings when they tried to hit with spin. The reason why is that the ball needs to sink into the spaces between the mains to get properly "bitten." Too many mains means not enough space for the ball to squash into.

    Besides that, the whole concept was flawed. As has been written about by many tennis researchers, including those that work for the ITF, pretty much all strings produce sufficient ball-string friction to put the maximum amount of spin on the ball attributable to friction alone. Increasing ball-string friction only has an effect on spin when the mains are sliding and snapping back, which they clearly aren't able to do in these Micro patterns - the weave is just too tight. But this 22x30 would be wicked on volleys and flat shots with an thin, flexible string like Ashaway Dynamite 18. Dynamite is also very rough and so might grab the ball a little better than other strings.
     
    #23
  24. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    I get a lot of spin with an 18x20, but I guess it matters how you hit the ball. I would agree that the open pattern probably rotates the ball more, but the closed pattern does some serious work as well. Thats really all I am getting at.

    In fact my theory is that the closed pattern is better for players like myself that tend to hit with too much spin sometimes. The reason I believe this is true is because the more powerful and open a pattern is, the more I tend to close the racquet more and hit with a more western grip to control it. Doing this causes me to lose pace and hit fluffier balls.

    With the more closed pattern I am able to hit with a semiwestern grip more square on the ball and get plenty of spin as well.
     
    #24
  25. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    Spin (top spin) production is a matter of how you hit the ball more than just the string pattern. Modern windshield strokes may not work well with tight pattern; but classical head-down, drive-up style will work with any string pattern.

    Well, yes, you get different spin trajectories with different string patterns, though.
     
    #25
  26. alexgeorge

    alexgeorge New User

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    Great explanation thanks, learning alot mr Corners. I can tell you play alot because you know this stuff.

    I wanted to ask you one more thing, sorry about this massive post but I must know the answers to them. If you can help me thanks alot :)



    1)According to everything you said corners about the spacings and mains, which one of these patterns do you think would be most unbeatable for a spin/power player and which would hav the best overall stats, control, feel power, spin, and why so? (it can be any other pattern and not just these)

    eg- 22X15, 20X15, 20x14, 18X14, 16X10, 16x9, 16X19, 18X20


    2)Why do top players only use 16X19 18x20 and dont use these 16X10 or 20X14 patterns? any reason its bad?




    reason Im asking because I am going to do alot of experimenting and I really need to know this before I spend too much on string before I know.


    Anyway these are strings Ive researched and ones youve said, what do you think is better out of them for 22X15 pattern?

    ------------------------------------
    Micro

    22X15 pattern
    (tensioned like you said 40 at mains and 65 for crosses)


    Mains-best durability/control



    1. Ashaway Dynamite Soft 18 1.15 mm (Zyex Multifilament) for MAINS
    (zyex is soft/ good or bad for 22x15 mains?)

    http://stringerforum.net/strings.php?sdnr=4555&count=0

    http://www.ashawayusa.com/Dynamite.php



    or



    2. Pacific Power Craft 18 1.10 mm (Kevlar Co-polymer) for MAINS
    (same material as Ashaway Crossfire)

    http://www.stringforum.net/stringdb.php?show=199&count=1







    Crosses- best spin/power


    1. Yonex Poly Tour Pro 125 1.25mm (co poly) For Crosses

    http://www.stringforum.net/strings.php?sdnr=4287&fstatus=0



    or



    2. Luxilon 4G 1.25 mm (Co poly) For Crosses

    http://www.stringforum.net/strings.php?sdnr=4977&fstatus=0



    or



    3. Babolat VS Touch BT7 1.30 mm / 1.25 mm (Natural Gut) For Crosses

    http://stringerforum.net/stringdb.php?show=2876&count=1



    or




    4. Polystar Classic 1.10 mm or 1.20 mm (Polyester MONO) alot of power! For Crosses

    http://www.stringforum.net/stringdb.php?show=630



    or



    5.Genesis Hexonic 17L/18/16L (18 is 1.10 mm) (Co poly) For Crosses


    http://www.stringforum.net/stringdb.php?show=2689


    ---------------------------------




    22X30 pattern
    (tensioned alot lower 28-35lbs)

    For both Mains and Crosses





    1. ZyMax 70 Badminton string 0.70mm (Nylon Microfilament) For Mains and Crosses

    http://www.ashawayusa.com/ZyMaxV2.php


    Maximum tension up to 35 lbs (16 kgs)




    or




    2. Ultrakill 18 Racquetball string 1.15 mm (Zyex Microfilament) For Mains and Crosses

    http://www.ashawayusa.com/UltraKill.php

    Maximum tension 35 lbs (16kg)



    ------------------------------------------


    If your not sure about the racquetball and badminton string dont worry I just needed any opinions before I try it and post my results.
    I think as long as I dont go over 35 it should be fine, but is that nylon microfilament stiff or soft?







    Anyone is free to give opinions, thx
     
    #26
  27. alexgeorge

    alexgeorge New User

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    Forget the last question, I already knew Nylon is soft.
     
    #27
  28. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    As quoted earlier, these PK micro Ace rackets with the most closed patterns ever produced were intended for "Power players looking for superior durability".

    The string jobs should last very long but be more difficult to string (weave) the tight pattern. I recommend using the largest gauge that works, maybe 16 or 17g ? and stringing at a low tension like 45lbs. This will provide the most power. Spin will be produced by technique, not strings, since it will play more boardy than the typical 18x20 or 16x19 racket. Should be outstanding control and power if you can handle the head weight.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
    #28
  29. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

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    I think the idea that open patterns given more spin than closed patterns is not really true.

    In my experience, if the tension is the same, then an open pattern is generally more spin-friendly. However, if I use a string setup that has low interstring friction and good ball-string friction (like kevlar/poly or shaped poly), then I find that I seem to be able to get the most spin with a very closed pattern strung very loose:
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=418090

    A loosely strung dense pattern delivers a lower rebound angle too, so the spin does not come at such a high cost of loss of control like it does with a open pattern, high-rebound-angle setup.

    Unfortunately, poly crosses at low tension lose tension and soon become excessively low tension with less control.

    So after much experimentation, my favorite string setup is kevlar/poly with dense pattern, strung on the medium to tight side, but with the outer strings omitted from the pattern. This ensures a stringbed that is less dented by the ball (the denting of the stringbed is what leads to high rebound angle). By omitting the outermost strings of the pattern, the stringbed sill gives a bit and feels softer, even though it is not dented by the ball. So this gives the best of all worlds: great control, good spin, good power:
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=389303
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
    #29
  30. alexgeorge

    alexgeorge New User

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    Hi Travlerajm, Im Alex. Do you have msn? Im desperate to tune my racket to the max and curious to know more about the patters and you are experienced in this. Can you add me as friend on msn.

    My email is: ferrarithunder@hotmail.com


    Thanks
     
    #30
  31. alexgeorge

    alexgeorge New User

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    I wish I knew what you knew lol
     
    #31
  32. alexgeorge

    alexgeorge New User

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    alex




    Or Mr travelerjm Do you have facebook I do?
     
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