pro staff six one 95 "real" weight?

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by Edo, Jan 13, 2012.

  1. Edo

    Edo Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Messages:
    109
    Today my local store received 6 ps 6.1 95 and we weighted them all together (strung with factory wilson sensation, no overgrips) and here's the results: one was 329, 2 were 332, 2 333 and one 334. Both wilson and tw specs say strung weight is 326, while unstrung weight should be 313. So my question is: are strings heavier than 13 grams (which would give 326) or are all racquets weighted differently (and all above 313gr)?? thoughts? Anyone who's got a demo or has bought one can share strung weight without overgrip/dampener?
     
    #1
  2. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,267
    They are all built to a wide tolerance and none wider than Wilson.
     
    #2
  3. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    8,722
    WOW! Six Wilson frames within 5 grams of each other. Believe it or not, that's pretty impressive.
     
    #3
  4. Edo

    Edo Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Messages:
    109
    yeah, I know that, but 8grams..!!! that's a superwide tolerance people shouldnt tolerate!!! :D
     
    #4
  5. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    2,191
    Location:
    SF, CA
    What gauge was the Wilson Sensation? 16 or 17? To answer your question, yes, if 16 ga, the strings could be 15 grams.

    Did you guys remove the plastic wrap from the handle before weighing the racquets?
     
    #5
  6. kybb

    kybb New User

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Estonia
    I have seen 10g and 8mm difference... frames were bought at the same time and from the same seller.

    My experience is with wilsons that the lightest ones need only weight added to the grip area and you can get the same weight and balance. Newer had need to add some weight to the head. I have had only 4 pairs of Wilsons tough.
     
    #6
  7. Edo

    Edo Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Messages:
    109
    yes, we did remove everything (wrap from the handle, plastic from the stringbed etc) and the sensation are 16ga. But still, if they added 15 grams, then the unstrung stick at 334 would be 319 as opposed to 313... So you reckon heavier sticks add overall weight or is it just in the handle/head?
     
    #7
  8. Geology_Rocks!

    Geology_Rocks! Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    492
    Location:
    Salvador, BA
    Seriously, when I saw the thread I was expecting a 10g gap between each frame, based on my previous experience and the reports around here.

    Those are pretty good.
     
    #8
  9. Edo

    Edo Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Messages:
    109
    Well, the gap I mentioned is between a stick at 329 and a stick at 334.. if you consider that the "official" weight is 326, i'm sure there will be some 320/322 sticks somewhere in the world!
     
    #9
  10. Vasuri

    Vasuri New User

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    53
    #10
  11. Automatix

    Automatix Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Messages:
    2,846
    Location:
    Poland
    Believe it or not but quality control is getting worse and worse...

    Recently a friend of mine bought a YouTek Radical MP because he wanted something lighter.

    It felt heavy so he measured it...
    Weight (unstrung): 304g
    Balance (unstrung): 332 mm

    And according to the Polish distributor it is within the acceptable variance range. SIC!
     
    #11
  12. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    8,722
    Wilson's horrible consistency is going to be a problem for me.

    I want to buy two of the new BLX 95 6.1 16x18s (2012) that are coming out in a couple of weeks. For financial reasons, it would be easier to stagger the purchase of the two frames. Buy one in Jan or Feb, buy another in March or April. But, if I do that, I can't take advantage of TW matching service and could end up with noticeably different frames.

    On the other hand, I guess it's not that far-fetched to get two frames that are nearly the same and don't feel that different. But, it's a gamble.
     
    #12
  13. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2010
    Messages:
    5,269
    When you buy the 2nd won, send TW the specs of the first one and ask if they will get you one as close a possible. I expect they will do it and charge you the $10 match fee. If you pay the $10 match fee on the first one, they will likely send you weight, balance, and SW and you can use this for the second one's specs.

    By the way, I bought 2 blx 6.1 95 16x18 locally about 2 years ago - the previous gen. I had the local pro shop weigh them and they were within 3 grams. The balance was exact or at least within 1/16 of an inch. You could check weight and balance at any local shop with a postal scale, flat table and measuring tape. Lay the head of the racket on a flat table with the measuring tape under it. Balance it at the point where it just barely stays on the table without tipping. If 14.5 inches are on the table side (head side), the racket is 8 pts HL (27-14.5=12.5 which is 8 HL). Use the head side on the table because it is flat unlike the handle.

    I did not measue SW as the goofy manual method where you swing it and count sways is too inexact and I don't have a RDC measure.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
    #13
  14. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    1,923
    Rackets are handmade tools: graphites pieces are cut by hand, graphite sheets handrolled, etc. They're gonna have variations.
     
    #14
  15. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    8,722
    Great idea. Thank you.
     
    #15
  16. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    8,722
    No one disputes that. It's the amount of variation that is acceptable which is debatble.
     
    #16
  17. Torres

    Torres Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Messages:
    4,767
    Static weight is a bit of red herring - unless there's an enormous difference it doesn't really mean much of anything.

    What's more important is swingweight, balance and distribution of mass throughout the frame, all of which are subject to manufacturing variances.

    I have two 6.1s for example. One weighs 355g and the other 350g. The one that weighs 350g plays like a tree log. The 355g plays much better and is much more manouverable. That's my main stick, the other spends most of the time in the cupboard.

    I wouldn't be too concerned about the ProStaff 95s. They're light enough and have enough headroom in terms of weight for lead to be added and the racquets matched to preference.
     
    #17
  18. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    Here are the specs posted by two other online retailers for the ProStaff BLX 95:

    Mdieswt:
    328 grams
    32 cm balance
    318 swingweight
    65 flex

    Eprxses:
    328 grams
    32 cm balance
    310 swingweight
    63 flex
     
    #18
  19. 808

    808 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    351
    Location:
    Munich, Germany
    The one I got a couple of days ago weighs just shy of 323g strung w/ VS Touch 16. Pretty light. Balance is 32.4cm.
     
    #19
  20. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    1,923
    No amount will ever be acceptable, esp to people with electronic scales. For most my Wilsons, I can't tell the difference among them. (Only 1 in 5 I sense a difference, with a subtle change in shots produced.) But all the sudden the electronic scale measures a difference, it's the end of the world.

    The biggest determinant in how different same-model rackets play will always be the string age. Whether the ball launches, misses wide, etc... all come with old strings. Players with high needs should focus on re-stringing their rackets often, not whine about a few grams difference in their rackets.
     
    #20
  21. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    1,923
    Important point made here. Even electronic machines have variances. All measurements are accurate within a range. You have to take multiple measurements and average them together. You also have to re-calibrate your machines to make sure they're accurate.
     
    #21
  22. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    Wait a minute. Why do you think the variation seen in these numbers is due to measurement error? I assume that it's variation between racquets tested. That seems much more likely to me.

    If we take the numbers for static weight reported above and the Mdwiset, TW and Express measurements from the various racquets in their inventories we have ranges like so (all specs strung):

    Static weight: 323 - 335 grams
    Balance: 31.5 - 32.5 cm
    Swingweight: 298 (Geoff) - 318 (Express)

    That's pretty bad QC, but not surprising. Look at the range of swingweights for BLX 95s on the market: I've seen swingweight anywhere from 320 to 338 reported. That's huge variation and has come to be typical for Wilson.
     
    #22
  23. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    1,923
    Because machines have to be calibrated in order to be accurate. They also have to be re-calibrated often in order to stay accurate. I've weighted myself on a generic scale then immediately on a scientific scale, and there was a 10lb difference in my own weight.

    Some machines are precise, some are accurate, and some are both precise and accurate. The quality of the numbers depend on the quality of the machine making the measurements.

    When numbers are so off (TW vs MW vs TE), I suspect machine calibration first.
     
    #23
  24. Odonnell

    Odonnell Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2010
    Messages:
    261
    Got mine yesterday.
    314g unstrung
    31.2cm Balance
     
    #24
  25. Fed Kennedy

    Fed Kennedy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2008
    Messages:
    4,738
    Location:
    With Roger
    Bottom line: this thing is too light.
     
    #25
  26. user92626

    user92626 Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,142
    Wow, this is the thread I've been looking for.

    I'm very interested in this racket, but my weight range is 320-328 (328 is pushing it).

    I'm with the OP. The increase variation is just too much. I have had a similar experience with Donnay XRed 99. TW lists 326gr but I couldn't get it down below 330 without removing all the grips, OGs. This is with a 17g poly strung.

    Now i'm torn about this PS racket!
     
    #26
  27. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    I know what you are talking about. But given the widespread reports of spec variation in Wilson racquets I think it's more likely that TW's 5-frame average compared to the one-frame measurements done by those other retailers, shows up the bad QC everyone is talking about in this thread. But maybe you're right; maybe it's the machines. But if you look at those other retailers numbers for other frames you'll see no clear pattern. Sometimes they report higher numbers than TW, sometimes they report lower numbers. I suspect spec variations, frame to frame, is what is going on here. It's pretty easy to calibrate these machines.
     
    #27
  28. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    1,923
    The reason why I suspect the machine calibration is the flex measurement. Every other measurement deals with mass distribution, how much graphite the worker placed and how well they placed them based on racket design. Flex is a property of the graphite itself. Rackets should have the same flex, regardless of QC. Assuming, of course, the racket molds were brought up to the correct temperature.
     
    #28
  29. Odonnell

    Odonnell Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2010
    Messages:
    261
    Change the grip and you'll have something around 325 strung.
    The pro hybrid grip weight on the stick is 24g.
     
    #29
  30. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    It seems to me that how much and how well the graphite is placed could also impact the flex of the stick. I suspect, and believe I've read, that flex does vary from stick to stick, just like other specs. Probably not as widely, but...

    But you seem to know about manufacturing processes. Maybe you're right. In the case of these new Prostaffs, they have gone back to the braided graphite construction, apparently sans Kevlar. Do you know how consistent that type of layup is from stick to stick? I would think it would be more consistent since they are dealing with continuous graphite strands rather than discontinuous, shorter sheets of graphite.
     
    #30
  31. tlm

    tlm Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    7,454
    The demo i received weighs 327 grams.
     
    #31
  32. tenapasi

    tenapasi Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    Messages:
    301
    Just a suggestion.
    If you concern about quality, why not buy other brand with higher QC like dunlop, volkl, or yonex ?
     
    #32
  33. Davro

    Davro New User

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2011
    Messages:
    27
    Does anyone know if those measurements are taken under the same circumstances? Are they all measuring flex based on strung racquets? Are any of them just using Wilson's listed specs? Seems like there is a lot of talk about numbers and not a lot of anecdotal evidence. Just an observation.
     
    #33

Share This Page