Pro stringing versus home - Ways to improve?

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by Power Player, Mar 16, 2014.

  1. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Basically because of how the gliding clamps are set up, they can hit a mounting clamp and can't move closer. Or you just can't wedge the string clamp in close enough to the frame if the first cross is higher up on the frame.

    So you can tension the first cross, but you will still need to clamp it to tie it off, and that is where the issue is.

    Much faster for me to tie a bulky and be on my way.
     
    #51
  2. Triskadekaphilia

    Triskadekaphilia Semi-Pro

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    Actually, it's pretty easy to prestretch on a dropweight. Just push down on the weight (slightly) for 5-10 seconds. Not as precise, but gets the job done.

    Caveat: I only do this with my own racquets and string.
     
    #52
  3. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    not the way i do it.
     
    #53
  4. bluegrass_stringer

    bluegrass_stringer Semi-Pro

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    If people want all knots the same, then just use the "bulky" knot as a tie off knot, since it was originally designed as a tie off knot.
     
    #54
  5. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    PP, i just emailed you pics of my starting knot and instructions on how i do it to prevent the knot from getting pulled into the grommet hole.
     
    #55
  6. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I got mad dogs email and am adding that knot technqiue to my arsenal.

    Now i wait on the estimate for a new clamp base.
     
    #56
  7. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    About knots...

    Since we're on the topic of knots, do you guys know of a way to start the crosses in a 2piece job to minimize the stress of that main?

    I'm asking because every once in a while, I'll snap a gut on a shank, right at the cross knot on the top corner.

    I understand that's just one of the many perils of using natural gut. But everytime one of these shank-break occurs, it's ALWAYS on the main where the cross knot is on.

    How I start/tie the 1st cross:
    1) Weave the cross through
    2) Do my double knot
    3) Hand-pull my knots until they're snug. The free-end is held in my hand so the knots have something to "pull" against.
    4) Tension that 1st cross and the knots automatically tighten by themselves.

    ^^ Am I doing anything wrong there? Is there a way to lessen the stress of that main (if there is such a thing). Again, I understand that with natural gut, I'll break a string or two on a shank. But every one of my shank-break occurs at the main with the 1st cross knot.

    Thanks!
     
    #57
  8. bluegrass_stringer

    bluegrass_stringer Semi-Pro

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    What do you mean by "double knot" A starting knot should not place much force on the anchor string. Or you could use a figure 8 knot, where the knot doesn't go around an anchor string...the bulk of the knot holds it in place. I would use this, or the fishing knot. The "bulky" knot everyone loves here should work too, but it does place lots of force on the anchor string.
     
    #58
  9. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    Maybe try ditching the starting knot. I never do starting knots since a TT'r shared his method (sorry I dont remember who it was). Pretty simple. Weave the top cross and the one right below that. Pull both strings. Set the clamp on the 2nd cross. release tension and then pull the top cross. Clamp and then do a regular tie off knot. Then pull the 2nd cross and keep going.

    I am guessing that that creates less stress on the main since that knot is just tensioned by hand.
     
    #59
  10. leroy_sunset

    leroy_sunset Rookie

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    I'm lucky - I have EXO3 sticks that require either a brake, or the use of the 2-piece 50/50 string job. Doing a 50/50 (starting in the middle) means I can use regular tieoff knots on both ends of the crosses.
     
    #60
  11. camohommed

    camohommed New User

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    I use the same technique and prefer it to using a starting knot.
     
    #61
  12. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    Yeah. WHen writing my post above I had it in my head that I NEVER used a starting knot. but couldnt remember how I was doing that.

    Yes I was doing as you do and starting in the middle. It was great but messing with the starting clamp was kind of tedious and I ditched it once I heard about the other method.

    Sadly I ditched prince as a viable racket company simply because of those EXO ports and having to sting them. But hey that's just me. All the talk about special tools and how the ports wear our and I got a bit squeamish.

    To add to PP dichotomy as a home stringer there are some things I just wont try. While I have 1 and 1/2 sets of gut odds are I will NEVER end up stringing it because all of the drama (though I did some pacific I think and it wasnt too bad but played pretty crappy).
     
    #62
  13. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    You should never use a "double knot" (double half hitch) as a starting knot. The way it tightens is directly around the anchor string. You want to use a starting knot that has a "slip" designed into it so when the string cinches, it allows the entire knot to slip and tighten rather than one single half hitch loop. Otherwise you'll have issues crushing the anchor string like you've seen. I also personally prefer starting clamps, but the technique addressed here is due to the machine design.

    The mounting system physically interferes with the top cross on frames with a very high top cross. You actually have to move the cross string to fit a clamp in there, which, as you can imagine -- is not desirable. You'd still have to do this with a starting clamp, of course (on the other side), but you can at least still pull out any extraneous slack when releasing the initial clamp.
     
    #63
  14. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    spot on. i say post a video
     
    #64
  15. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    So which knot would you recommend? (I don't know any other knots!)

    Thanks.
     
    #65
  16. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Why not use a starting knot?
     
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  17. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Oh LOL! The starting knot is actually called a "starting knot"? Haha, ok. I'll look it up. Thanks.
     
    #67
  18. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Since Albert never chimed in I reached out to him and here is what he had to say:
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
    #68
  19. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    Thanks Irvin. I'd still be really interested to hear if there's been any testing on the latest firmware. Seems like it'll still be there, but we'll see if Albert gets his hands on any new revision tensioners.
     
    #69
  20. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Quick question for you DD, do you think the American Weigh PK-110 Peak Hold Pull Force gauge would be good enough to measure over pull?

    EDIT: DD I ordered one since they are local here and I should get it tomorrow. I'll let you know if I see any Overpull or not but from talking to the guy I'm not so sure the response time is fast enough.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
    #70
  21. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Because the tension holds up longer I'm just about forced to agree with you but I would like to know for sure. I should have been born in the 'Show Me State.'
     
    #71
  22. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Buying a new clamp base today. Not sure when I will get it. Also have a new starting clamp.

    I am going to start my mains the way Irvin described. I feel like that may be an issue. Also will readjust/clean my clamps to make sure they are not slipping.

    Sounds like everything else I'm doing pretty well. I believe I can do this..haha.
     
    #72
  23. bluegrass_stringer

    bluegrass_stringer Semi-Pro

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    #73
  24. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    #74
  25. unorthodox stringing

    unorthodox stringing Rookie

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    Thanks for pursuing this. I am very keen how this would turn out.

    Would you be able to post any pics or your findings? Does the Star3 overshoot, and if so, what is the peak force? Could it be altered? Thanks.
     
    #75
  26. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    #76
  27. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    I think this kind of inquisitive nature is generally beneficial for the community, though :)

    As far as whether or not it's good enough, it really depends on how quickly it samples, and how brief of a pulse it can measure. If it's not fast enough, it can still miss true peak measurements. I think I'd have to look at the hardware to really tell, but at that point, I'd need Albert's too to see the difference.

     
    #77
  28. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Just strung one with the recommended starting knot. Kind of a difficult knot to "wrap around" with a poly. But I can see why this knot is easier on the main anchor string.
     
    #78
  29. bluegrass_stringer

    bluegrass_stringer Semi-Pro

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    #79
  30. bluegrass_stringer

    bluegrass_stringer Semi-Pro

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    #80
  31. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    sure, you break it, you buy it! :lol:
     
    #81
  32. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
    #82
  33. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    #83
  34. bluegrass_stringer

    bluegrass_stringer Semi-Pro

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    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
    #84
  35. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

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    PP, I can't recall if you have the concorde system (tilting base) on your stringer. If not, your issues could be due to how you are pulling the center mains. Just a thought.
     
    #85
  36. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Don't think so. Its just two rails with fixed clamps. The base rotates and can be locked with a switch.
     
    #86
  37. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

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    This could be the problem. When you string your center mains, do the strings rub against the racquet handle when you are pulling? I had a problem with this until I changed my technique, and my string beds became A LOT more consistent.
     
    #87
  38. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    No, but i will check next time to verify. What did you change in your technique?
     
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  39. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

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    #89
  40. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Cool thanks. After reviewing that thread and the video, I do not think this is an actual problem for me.
     
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  41. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    PP, you don't have the concorde system

    this was mentioned early on in this thread

    you can lose quite a bit of tension in the center 2 mains due to the friction created by the string rubbing on the throat unless you modify your technique.
     
    #91
  42. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Ok I will see if that is even happening. If I remember correctly, I pass the string under the throat and it is not rubbing at all.

    Really not sure how I'd remedy that to be honest. Maybe I missed something in the video.
     
    #92
  43. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

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    The video shows you how to string the center mains by tensioning from the head of the racquet only. You never have to pull on the handle side, so you never have a string rubbing. It made a huge difference in my string jobs.
     
    #93
  44. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I watched it a few times and i just dont get what he is doing. I have to put 2 strings in the gripper and pull at the same time? It looks he clamps the strings outside the center mains as well....not getting this.

    Diredesire, do you do this on your stringway machine?
     
    #94
  45. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    He's pulling two mains at the same time, sometimes referred to as a "double pull," but he's yanking the friction loss out by pulling on the fully tensioned string. I think this is a bad practice TBH. It's neither accurate nor repeatable. I'm sure that the tension on the center mains gets closer to reference due to friction loss around the throat of the frame, but this is still something I wouldn't personally do. If you want to quantify the difference, take a frame that starts at the throat, and then a frame that starts at the head. Use Racquettune or whatever tool you prefer, and then tension 2-3 mains out. Check the center tension delta between the second and third mains. The second and third (theoretically) should be similar if the length is pretty close. If there's a significant delta (3+ lbs or so) on the center mains, you can bump the tension up for those two strings to account for tension loss, but it's a PITA.

    I no longer own the LF MS200TT, I have a Gamma 5800 ELS and a Sensor at the moment.
     
    #95
  46. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    ...............
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2014
    #96
  47. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    Agreed, I went to a shop before and saw some pretty frighting methods; one of which was only stringing one side of the mains before doing the other.:neutral:
     
    #97
  48. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Psssshhh, that's nothing.

    Stringer 1: "Crap, I don't have time to finish up this racquet today."
    Stringer 2: "When are you leaving? In about 20mins."
    Stringer 1: "I'm just going to finish up the mains, tie it up, and do the crosses TOMORROW."
    Stringer 2: "Ok when you're done with that racquet, DISMOUNT it. So I can use the machine."

    And then there's this debacle:

    [​IMG]
     
    #98
  49. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    20min is plenty of time to finish a job
     
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  50. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Ok, thanks. It didn't really look that kosher to me. At least, I would not feel comfortable trying that.

    I may try Irvins method of starting the mains he posted a few back. It is similar to how you did it on the Stringway.

    Main thing is I need to adjust for that drawback somehow. Sometimes the mains are almost a little crooked from it. I am thinking that clamp base may have been an issue. It was not smooth at all like the one on the other rail. I should have it all back this week and Im going to start stringing this weekend and working on my technique.
     

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