Pro stringing versus home - Ways to improve?

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by Power Player, Mar 16, 2014.

  1. Joonas

    Joonas Rookie

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    PP: I have also little challenges to make base clamps smooth and same time hold tight.

    I have found out that the the adjustment has to be made very carefully. Not too loose but not too tight. The window is rather small. Also you need to regularily re-check the bolt/tightness.

    Also be absolutely sure when you close your clamp that it is straight up. I mean that when you tighten the base clamp the string should not be twisted at all. If your base clamps are too tight it will be difficult to have base clamp moving loosely enough in place prior tightening.

    I also have found handy to hold the base clamp with my hand while tightening/lockin it.

    Third thing to look into is cleaning the rails with alcohol often enough. I would not lube them so cleaniness is vital for easy clamp movement.

    I hope this helps.
     
  2. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, this all makes sense, thank you. And you are talking about the bolt on the bottom of the base clamp that tightens to the rail, correct?

    I am going to fine tune all the stuff. I actually have to get a hex wrench today because the base clamp that broke literally had the lever snap off in the locked position and I have to use a hex to loosen that bolt.

    How loose should the base clamp be able to slide when it is in the unlocked position? I could very well have these bases a bit too tight.
     
  3. Joonas

    Joonas Rookie

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    I have not seen any big issue on starting the mains. I always pull over the throat. There is little friction but you can overcome it by gently sliding the string against the throat (or placing a business card or similar between the string and the frame). I usually do 2-3 movements. You can see the weight dropping slightly. Just be careful not to use to much force to stretch and screw up your tension.

    I have checked occasionally all the strings tensions separately after finishing the frame with Stringmeter. Difference between center mains to following is not even 1kg. So quite minimal. And it is constant. To my understanding center mains are always bit looser than next ones not depending on the machine.
     
  4. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    I was starting under the throat. Is it better to start over? It sounds like this is how most people do it, so I may have been screwing that up.
     
  5. Joonas

    Joonas Rookie

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    -Yes

    -It should moyve very lightly. If they are even bit too tight it makes clamping the crosses very slow and with twisting of string your tension will be off.

    You can test your setting by clamping a single string and pulling tension directly against it. Same time hold your hand or monitor very careful if your base clamp is holding or not. If it is holding then you are good to go as during normal stringing you will never pull tension directly against the clamp. There is always a grommet turn in between.
     
  6. Joonas

    Joonas Rookie

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    Over the throat there is more direct path to tension head. So yes.
     
  7. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Joonas, really appreciate it. I think you just highlighted 2 things I was doing wrong.
     
  8. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    The other guy was probably like "I don't know enough about tension to dispute your claims, but it sounds like you know what you're talking about."

    While this is true for you and I, this is not really additive to the conversation, as that's not the reality for many people out there. This is especially true when staff is undertrained and expected to do a lot more than string (big box stores). A lot of people will end up having "years" of experience, but less frames under their belt than you do in a month. No offense intended, because I respect you as a poster, but these drive-by comments just sound like a humble-brag to me.

    I actually found little trouble with the bases of the SW clamps (assuming you have DA clamps). What you can do is pre-load the clamps a little bit (you can try a search on this term), but what I do is lock the clamp head first, and then nudge the base towards the tensioner (or direction of tensioning, to be precise). Be careful with the SW clamps, as it's VERY EASY to actually INCREASE the tension on a string. Since the clamp head is (or at least appears to be) cast, the mating between the clamp shaft (base) and the clamp head (sleeve/sheath) is pretty sloppy, you're effectively tilting the clamp head so there's no slop/room to drawback. You can drastically reduce drawback this way. It's one of my gripes of an otherwise excellent clamping system.

    Try some dry silicone spray/lubricant on the rails. I always had slight stuttering issues with the clamps, as I have the tendency to try to move the clamps by the clamp head (habit from NEOS stringing, I guess). If you move the clamp by the base (even without lube), it should be pretty smooth. With silicone spray, the clamps CAN move as smooth as buttah.

    1Kg is pretty significant, though. I agree with the stiffness (and as a side effect, the "tension" you measure with a stringmeter) claim, though.

    I don't actually remember which direction I started, I want to say it was under the throat, but the simple summary is this: Take a peek at the string both ways, and use whichever has less deflection. I don't have my machine anymore, so I can't confirm the height of the tensionhead....
     
  9. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Fantastic - thanks!
     
  10. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    Wow, that's pretty bad. The most I've seen a racquet sit on a machine with only the mains done is about 2 hours and I was going crazy just seeing it sit there!

    And yeah 20min should be more then enough time; shows what kind of string that guy was.
     
  11. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Ok i have a new clamp and new base installed. Cleaned the rails, adjusted the clamps. Just pulled two mains to test how everything is looking. I notice off the bat that my base seems straighter and the string is not bending in the clamps. Anyway here are some pics for evaluation.

    I double pulled the mains, basically this is the yusuki starting method with one main at true tension.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Everything look cool?
     
  12. Joonas

    Joonas Rookie

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    PP: You start same way like I do. It is not Yuzuki. What you mean by double pulling? Starting this way I only pull one string first at true tension and clamp it like you do and then I pull the next mains at true tension again.

    Your clamps seem to be straight and not bending strings. However your racquet is not mounted straight at throat. The hole in the tower sholuld be exactly in the middle of two first mains.

    Also, be very careful when mounting the frame. Look that you mount it loose enough not to deform it while tightening the posts. And also when tightening the support at 12 o'clock make sure that it just touches the frame but not too tight. This way you can ensure mains tighteness as the frame should maintain its form when unmounting.

    @Diredesire, I strung few frames today and checked the two first mains tension against the next ones. One frame they were identical. The other bit lower. Not one kg. In my experience it depends on the string as how it comes through grommet turn. Nat gut and syn gut seem to come around better.
     
  13. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    That's right it is not the Yusuki method. Yusuki pulls two strings at a time from the end opposite the starting end so hald tension is on each string then one main is clamp on the starting end with a machine clamp. That same main is then clamped outside the frame with a starting clamp opposite the starting end with a starting clamp. Some machines need tension on the string to hold the clamp and the Yusuki method does that.
     
  14. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Ok cool. Here is what i am doing to start the mains. Let me know what i need to change. I am pulling both strings to get tension on them and then clamping and reinforcing with a starting clamp as you see. I then pull the other main to true tension, clamp it and repeat two more times on that side.

    I go to the other main, pull tension and release both clamps, let it settle into tension, clamp and go from there.

    What else do i need to change?

    As for the mounting, i feel like the racquet is mounted down the middle properly and the picture may just be an illusion from the angle i snapped it. But to be clear, when you say the hole in the tower, can you tell me a little more what you mean so i can make sure it is correct?

    Thanks again, these are the little things i need to fix.
     
  15. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    Not sure if the design has changed, but the tip mounting piece is curved. This might be what Joonas is referring to. If you tighten the tip down too far and the curve doesn't match the PTFE (?) block, you can actually reduce the support touching the frame. I also recommend taking some double sided tape and adding an overgrip to your hold-down pieces. This will prevent the frame from sliding around AND reduce the force required to restrain the frame.

    Thanks for the data Joonas, good to know.

    My center tip block was slightly off-center, so it would tilt a little bit (IIRC). If the frame is centered, you're fine. As above, I recommend adding some material to the under-side of the hold-downs. Your starting method is fine, but only works with frames that start at the throat, correct? You're pulling both mains simultaneously? (Which, as an aside, the LF/SW machines handle beeeeautifully) I think Irvin points that out with his post (in a way). You can't pull simultaneously from the throat due to interference. Not sure if this is true with the Concorde system, but I believe the retrofit is pretty simple and it should enable you to do so. No idea on how well it's implemented, though (I stopped paying attention to LF posts once that ship sailed).

    There's nothing wrong with starting that way, but you still have the issue of pulling against the throat.

    P.S. it's uh... very reassuring that you have a hammer right next to your stringing machine :)
     
  16. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Haha. Yeah the good ol hammer. I tap it lightly to loose the mounting base tightener when i put on a different frame and need to unloosen it and slide it back or forwards.

    I need a starting method for the throat as well since i have sticks that go against the throat. Any ideas on what to change, or just use a business card to reduce friction? That is going to be something i need to figure out in the next day.

    I do pull both strings just to get some tension on them before i apply the clamps. I believe irvin suggests putting the starting clamp outside the frame instead of backing up the clamp. Im not opposed to trying that if it makes a difference.

    Love the overgrip idea. Thats just awesome. Will do that for sure.
     
  17. Joonas

    Joonas Rookie

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    PP, I mean that if you look at the throat side grommets, in your picture 3rd left and 3rd right it seems to me that left one is further to left than the right one is to the right. You can use racquet mounting post (white ones) as a reference. So to me it seems that your racket is not mounted straight but is little bit to the left. It might very well be the angle of the photo as well. If racquet is not straight then you should have some issues to have even string bed.

    I start mains the way you do but I dont pull tension to both strings first. I just clamp other mains near to the frame and pull tension to "open" string. I have had no clamp slippage issues this way. In theory it is possible that clamp would slip with syn gut in high tension...

    @Diredesire and PP: I still don't see any relevant handicap pulling strings over the throat. As an example if your mains start from the hoop. I always start the mains same way. As I said you can monitor the lever going down as you work out the friction between string and the frame. And then you will also see the lever stop going down so then you know that you have overcome the friction.

    I also noticed same that Diredesire brought up that you would like to put something between the frame mount and frame (under the frame) in the hoop mounts as sometimes center mount would push the frame out of the mounts. I use this workaround especially with some Wilson frames.

    EDIT: that hammer scared me as well :)
     
  18. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I'm not suggesting everyone use my method I just passed it on. I use a starting clamp outside the frame and double pull two strings at half tension, then set a clamp on the string at the end where the mains loop (usually start.)

    Nothing really wrong with your starting method as DD already stated. I used to use that method to prevent any slipping of a main through but I noticed every time I did no matter how much I tried I could never get the starting clamp tight against the clamp. I felt as though if it ever then became tight it would have been because the clamp slipped and pulled the starting clamp against the clamp.

    I used the Yusuki method too. But with somy frame that had a pronounced loop at the grommet it was hard to get the starting clamp tight against the frame also after taking off tension from the initial double pull. Therefore I doubled pulled at half tension which is similar to the Yusuki method. Yusuki pulls full tension on two strings which results in half tension on each. I pull ~half tension on one string all though I double pulling two strings. For frames that start in the throat I start on 1st and 2nd mains. For frames that start in the head I start on the center two mains. That way I never have a starting clamp at the head. I think a starting clamp may damage the string (contribute to shear) so I never place it at the head.
     
  19. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Help me understand. Are you saying that you have a starting clamp on the outside of the frame where the two center mains are, left or right, then you pull tension on those two strings ala Yusuki and then put a clamp on? I have read many of your posts in which you express concern over the stress placed on a frame. If I understand this correctly, you are really putting stress on the frame doing this aren't you?
     
  20. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Ok let's assume I have a frame that starts at the head. I center the two center mains just like most people do then I put a starting clamp on one center main at the throat outside the frame. I drop tenion to about hald tension and tension the center main that does not have a clamp from the throat. This pulls around the loop of the two center mains at the head and puts some tension on both center mains. Does not matter at this point what that tension is. Then I clamp the same center main with the starting clamp at the head of the frame with a machine clamp and release tension. Not I have some back tension on the mains between the two clamps. I raise my tension to full tension and tension the center main with no tension plus one more on the same side then I got to the other side and tension three mains. I never get more than one tensioned main ahead.

    I'm making some new videos today and then I have to process then. Maybe it will make more sense then if you can see it if I wasn't clear.
     
  21. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Ok this makes sense to me now.

    So for the StringWay guys - what is the best way to start mains from the throat side? Is there anything I need to do differently?
     
  22. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Your method is a good way to string the mains. The best way (in your situation) is what is easiest for you.
     
  23. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Ok, I was not sure since people are saying that stringing through the throat side can lose tension..etc. So I wanted to make sure I was not doing something wrong. My main stick is not the Tec anymore, and the mains start throat side.

    Im thinking that bad clamp base was a huge reason for some of my woes.

    Regardless, this thread has been a major help.
     
  24. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    You're armed with KNOWLEDGE now. Even if it was all in your head to begin with, at least your head is in a good place now. :twisted:
     
  25. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I get where PP is coming from. When a Dire, Irvin, Jim e or other respected posters can validate what we are doing, it does give us vigilante home stringers more confidence in our product.
     
  26. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Little update:

    My clamps seem to twist on mains 3 and 4. I was 3 pounds less than I wanted to be on the string job.

    Should I just tighten the clamp base a little more?

    Also I am running my strings over the throat before I tension. The string bends while it is going over the throat. I guess that is ok. I always went under the throat.
     
  27. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Maybe a short video of the twisting could someone identify your problem. After is bought the Gamma Adapter for my Wise I always went over the throat.
     
  28. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    I am doing surgery on my iPhone so this will not be possible for a little while. Need to clean the camera and replace the charging port.

    I think my clamp base may just be a little too loose.
     
  29. KoaUka

    KoaUka Rookie

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    I believe going over or under the throat depends on where your tensioner is relative to the racquet. Just try both and go with whichever bends the string less. For me, that's below the throat. For others which tensioners that sit a bit higher, they will probably go over the throat.
     
  30. OccasionalStringer

    OccasionalStringer New User

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    Definitely over the throat. With SW the tension is higher when the string comes above the horizontal level down to tension head, this compensates almost all the additional friction losses.

    If the string comes under the horizontal level tension is less in addition to friction losses.
     
  31. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    Agreed with the video thing. Can you identify whether or not the drawback or twisting is happening due to the base or the clamp head? Have you tried the pre-loading method I mentioned?
     
  32. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Pre loading works great. Drawback is not bad when i do that.
    I can not identify if the twisting comes from the base or the clamp head. I suspect the base. I may need to tighten it more but this is just a guess.
     
  33. Joonas

    Joonas Rookie

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    I followed DDs suggestion to slightly lube the rails. I wish I had realized that long ago. There is no slipping but clamps move very smoothly.

    I have done 15-20 racquets a week recently and lube the rails about weekly.
     
  34. lwto

    lwto Professional

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    THis doesn't have anything to do with tension accuracy or anything, but I always String with the racquet up.
    Always start the first cross going under the first main.

    Tie off's are always angled at the same degree.

    It just gives me a more consistent look and feel for every racquet.

    Insert labels at the same spot..
     
  35. stringertom

    stringertom G.O.A.T.

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    Good eyes and tons of experience are only a few miles away, PP. Slip me a PM and maybe we can arrange a brief tutorial and troubleshooting session. I know a few things about gaining consistency in rendition after doing the pro tour for seven years. My guys ate me up the first year out there bcoz I had some rather faulty equipment but after that I was getting sticks from departing players just because every frame I did was spot on.
     
  36. bluegrass_stringer

    bluegrass_stringer Semi-Pro

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    Most good stringers will string the racquets the same orientation..so everything is always the same, and the tie off grommets are always the same.
     
  37. stringertom

    stringertom G.O.A.T.

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    Except when a tie-off grommet starts to blow up and you put a tube in to protect the anchor string while awaiting a fresh set of grommets. If the customer doesn't specify stringing "p" or "d" up, I look to see if there's a nice fresh anchor grommet to aim for as the tie-off. That's why I <3 Yonex grommets...they give you two extra options with the larger x-string grommets near the crown where you can utilize a starting clamp to tie to a cross string.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
  38. bluegrass_stringer

    bluegrass_stringer Semi-Pro

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    Yes, it is mainly aesthetics, but obviously function is more important if one is damaged.
     

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