Probably the best PED insights you will ever see in this interview.

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Fate Archer, Feb 9, 2012.

?

So, could tennis be as clean as people initially thought?

  1. Yes.

    17 vote(s)
    31.5%
  2. No.

    37 vote(s)
    68.5%
  1. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    Does all this mean that of the two 2005 FO finalists one was using cheap drugs and got caught while the other one was and still is using the expensive ones?
     
    #51
  2. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

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    seems pretty logical now :p
     
    #52
  3. Rock Strongo

    Rock Strongo Legend

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    GOLF? Why would any golfer be doping?

    Anyway, back to the subject. I don't think doping is that big a problem in tennis, though once players start putting in abnormally hard work into what they do then accusations start floating around. I personally believe that hard work coupled with a healthy diet can get you pretty far, even as far as the top guys are. One must also remember that not every person is built roughly the same genetically. One guy has an easy time getting all muscly and buff like Nadal while a guy like Federer is more of the lean type. Heck, all the Roman gladiators had were dried fruits, beans and cereals, and once (if) they won, their super-buff (or rather thick as they actually were, but still muscly) bodies would let them have fun at orgies later (that might get cleaned up by TT mods).


    Also Senti, I read somewhere a while ago that the long distance thing was a genetic thing, probably due to adaptation and spending time on high altitude or something. Makes me wonder why I'm not that great of a long-distance runner being 50% African...
     
    #53
  4. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Sorry for exposing myself with my other account, Gorecki, guys. It just slipped out.

    And I would have gotten away with it too if hadn't been for those meddling kids and that dog.
     
    #54
  5. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    but how many acount do we have? i mean we, as in my multiple personalities!!!!
     
    #55
  6. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    This interview is not surprising at all. There are no clean pro sports out there and most if not all of the top pro athletes are using or have used something in the past, period end of story.
     
    #56
  7. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    In Tyler we trust.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2012
    #57
  8. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    i know... but please remember our first rule!!!
     
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  9. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Well said. I have amended my comment as it was a clear violation of rule 1 and 2.
     
    #59
  10. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks : we must remeber, It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.
     
    #60
  11. JeMar

    JeMar Legend

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    Absolutely fascinating. Thanks for posting. I'd like to respond at length, but I'm on my cell phone.
     
    #61
  12. TopFH

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    Best movie quote ever.
     
    #62
  13. mike84

    mike84 Semi-Pro

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    I also found it odd that Manny's camp never had issue with Marquez/Angel tie up.
    Then again Manny has been accused many times of using PED as he moved up divisions without losing any speed or power.

    Money plays huge role especially individual sports, wouldn't surprise me if there was cover ups.
     
    #63
  14. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relax folks, ...
    That's just a case of one probable doper giving another one a free pass. It's a secret code of mutual respect. Seriously, nothing in tennis comes close to being as outlandish or implicative (custom word) as Pacman and PED abuse, especially concerning his and his teams demands that the blood tests that would have to be taken for a Mayweather bout should NOT be random, among other things.
     
    #64
  15. Bjorn99

    Bjorn99 Professional

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    I got my steroids from the same guy as Ben. That guy was ten times more knowledgeable than this Angel guy, and that is no disrespect to Angel. And Ben was undetectable, his story of a spiked drink was actually true. He was singled out, and who knows how the stanazabol got into his system. Maybe it wasnt even in it. Its all ********, heck Borg... dont even get me going on that guy.
     
    #65
  16. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

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    What we *know* about this is that both were claycourters. One was a teenager and the over was a convicted doper, and the teenager outlasted and outgunned the guy who was doping. These are the facts. Hence the "great genetics" explanation, I guess.

    Great interview, btw. Thanks, Fate Archer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2012
    #66
  17. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    For all his doping, Puerta looked like he was about to keel over in the second and third sets of the final after his five set win over Davydenko in the SF.

    And that teenager had just won long matches before RG with a much better claycourter than Puerta, by the name of Coria.

    After his pre-RG results(won MC,Barcelona,Rome) Nadal was expected to make at least SF, even at such a young age. Puerta's run in RG was way more unexpected, seeing as he came in unseeded. Eyebrows were already raised when he reached SF in RG after coming back from a nine month suspension.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2012
    #67
  18. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    I believe we should authorize the use of epo, IGF and testosterone, as well as adrenaline and epitestosterone – substances that the body produces itself. Simply for pragmatic reasons, because it is impossible to detect them, and also because of the fairness aspect.



    Sounds an eminently sensible suggestion.

    Another would be to make some events less inhumane by making sure, for example, that six hour tennis matches never happen again.
     
    #68
  19. Tabash

    Tabash Rookie

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    D'you think this is why they're so desperate pushing for a longer off-season. A better chance to get their doping programs set up in the best possible way. For athletics, she mentioned their periods off of 8 weeks or whatever to start stocking up on stuff and also managing things so the cycle reaches its peak at a particular event....Players don't have much down time atm. With a few more weeks off just think how sophisticated their doping regime could become.
     
    #69
  20. Tabash

    Tabash Rookie

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    That all people in athletics were taking testosterone is obvious, even to the casual viewer. All the women in the short distance running have the upper bodies of men(and that was not just gotten from working out)
     
    #70
  21. MDCCLXXVI

    MDCCLXXVI Rookie

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    So, what is the solution?
     
    #71
  22. Apun94

    Apun94 Semi-Pro

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    WOW! brilliant article, opened my eyes, explains the inhuman strength of Nadal nd Jokovic
     
    #72
  23. MDCCLXXVI

    MDCCLXXVI Rookie

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    Without commenting on the athletes who are doping, this is the issue right here.

    It kills the sport.

    If it was common knowledge that all the best players had thousands of dollars of illegal pharmaceuticals in their system at any one time, what inspired youngster is going to keep trying to improve?

    Can't win a Masters without $500/day of clenbuterol...

    Can't win a Major without $2,000/day of dianabol, clen, tren, hgh, etc...

    At some point, no one will care about tennis because fewer will play or care after learning that all tennis players are hyper-dopers.

    I already don't watch most pro sports, after learning that 90% of the athletes are swallowing or injecting something. The other 10% are black or superfreaks.

    Once few enough people watch, televisions will stop covering ... Sponsors will go elsewhere ... and the game will atrophy.
     
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  24. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Are you kidding?

    Ben J admitted it finally. He admitted what it did to his sex drive. He joked about it in the locker room with others in his team.
     
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  25. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    On one hand true but that would hold true for sprinters too. The quantity of muscle fibers of a given kind (slow or fast twitch). Plus the Vo2 Max thing in the case of long distance runners.

    Depends on which part of Africa you are from, west or east/NE. The distance runners come from the East and North-East (Morocco, Algeria etc) whereas i think the sprinters come from the western part.
     
    #75
  26. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Far from suresh's "drying up pool of old farts"
    You guys have heck of a nerve outing my real name, as well as my alt user names. So now everyone knows I am just a failed, aging, ugly film star who got his roles due to his famous father, and not an ATP Pro. No one will take my poasts seriously :(

    You've ruined my life.
     
    #76
  27. wings56

    wings56 Professional

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    its happening everywhere. this is real. i think most people don't want to believe that their heroes are taking PEDs. the body can only do so much. the game has become so insanely physical and this physicality has to be maintained day in and day out for months at a time. just think about the quality of tennis that is maintained throughout 5 set matches. the big guys are definitely getting some help. to what extent, we may never know.

    as far as putting a stop to it goes, you can almost forget about it. the big companies will keep any findings under the radar and even the things that do go public result in a slap on the wrist. the game won't go clean until players get banned indefinitely and stripped of earnings upon a positive test. unless that happens and all players are tested a couple times a week, its only going to get worse.
     
    #77
  28. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    We also know that the teenager run out of gas after the first 3 sets in the final only couple months earlier in Miami. Then suddenly he can go to 5 sets weeks later in Rome etc. Interesting progress in just few weeks. Hmmm...
     
    #78
  29. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    Roids could help with the long drive off the tee - they enable you to practice alot - and recover good as new. They might take beta blockers to calm nerves..

    There is a drug for everything...

    One of the big things drugs are used for is injury recovery. HGH can really speed healing times - and steriods speed muscle recovery.

    I'd say in tennis - almost all the guys are using HGH for injury recovery - and a fair amount are using steroids for strength. Serena is a pretty prominent example of a steroid user showing almost all the telltale signs.

    Young healthy athletes almost never end up in the hospital for a blood clot. And she also is known to have avoided a test (something you can do as a pro tennis player) as I guess you have a few 'exemptions'

    Human Growth Hormone could be legal for tennis players - BTW. It's pretty much considered quasi legal for the most part.
     
    #79
  30. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    I drank 2 Muscle Milks this morning and I feel like I could crush a 6.0 level player.

    Lets do this. Now.
     
    #80
  31. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    Does it speed up healing of tennis elbow or other tendon problems?

    Just an honest question.
     
    #81
  32. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    Yep, sure does!
     
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  33. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    What I notice about this interview is that he mentions almost all pro sports there are except for tennis. He even mentions golf... but not a word about tennis.
    As long as there isn't an interview of this type refering directly to tennis, I will give tennis players the benefit of a doubt.
    Everything he said made sense though and could be applied to any sport with a lot of money at stake. And yes, I believe that doping is always ahead of testing because there is more money to be made in doping than in testing. I don't need a specialist to tell me that money runs the world. I had already noticed...
     
    #83
  34. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    [​IMG]
     
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  35. Fate Archer

    Fate Archer Hall of Fame

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    Some suplemental reading to corroborate the material already posted in the thread.

    This article has probably been posted or quoted in this forum but for those who still didn't read it
    Howman: Reform needed in anti-doping fight
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/howman-reform-needed-in-anti-doping-fight

    Much of what is in this article supports what was said in the Heredia interview back in 2008.

    Now another very interesting interview done by Spiegel. Richard Pond, the interviewee is a former WADA president. Not as deep as the Heredia one, but he gives a few good insights into the doping mafia.
    Heredia is also mentioned in it.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,593937,00.html
     
    #85
  36. Bjorn99

    Bjorn99 Professional

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    He was off cycling when they caught him. In other words, they spiked him. Or just made it up. Whatever, it was later admitted to HIM, that everyone else in the race was cheating as much or more than he was.
     
    #86
  37. Bjorn99

    Bjorn99 Professional

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    I am thankful that tennis warehouse hasn't shut down this thread. Almost every other chatboard(and the owners of those boards are interesting to say the least) would never let this kind of truth be out in the open.

    Now people can realize that all the top athletes STAY at the top, due to the fact that they have access to pharma that is way beyond the means of the lesser ranked players.

    Madonna has been into this **** for eons. As have many other celebs. And let me tell ya, with the estrogenic effect of plastic, its better to be taking steroids now, than NOT. Its pretty well the only way of fending off the blugger and passivity of the estrogen.
     
    #87
  38. galain

    galain Hall of Fame

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    On a recent thread a few posters gave me a hard time because I said I believe Sam Stosur is not 100% natural. I say this because to anyone who has been around PED users, she displays some very obvious signs of use.

    I don't think she's the only one by a long shot.

    And what this guy is saying about the amounts of igf and gh being used - I remember some of my former patients - national level sportspeople - laughing at the sudden 'popularity' of braces and teeth straighteners on the sprinters at one of the Olympic games in the 90's. What else is going to suddenly make an adults bones start to grow again?

    My old practice partner - a sports doctor - prescribed beta blockers for many national level shooters. Perhaps they really did have high blood pressure - all of them........

    Some of Australia's most prominent former swimmers have had whispers circulating about their drug use for a long time.

    High level sports are going to involve drugs. If you have the mental drive and the talent to become one of the best juniors in the world, and you work and work and work - and you have the chance to win millions - and that chance is increased if you know you can outlast your opposition - either on court, or recover faster - of course you'd at least think about taking something to help, if not actually doing it.

    Most of us would say no way - you'd be crazy to risk your health on something so fleeting. Most of us haven't spent hours on the court pretty much every day of our lives, investing every cent our parents can raise, striving to be amongst the elite of the sport we love and that we have world beating talent for. You combine this drive to win with the opportunity to increase your chances of success - why wouldn't we see drugs in sport?
     
    #88
  39. Rock Strongo

    Rock Strongo Legend

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    My dad's from Uganda, which is so close to Kenya it's not even funny. I could've been a long-distance runner!
     
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  40. Fate Archer

    Fate Archer Hall of Fame

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    I am thankful as well. I figured if I took the correct aproach, not by making blatant polemic accusations, but showing the hard cold facts to let people pondering themselves, this space could perhaps last and produce something meaningful.

    My main goal here is to make this information reach as many people as possible, so they can grow increasingly aware of the doping concern, which as much as we would like to think, tennis is no glorious exception.

    I would also like to ask for some people to stop the off-topic posts, as to not derail the main point of the thread and keep it on-topic as much as possible.
     
    #90
  41. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    good on ya, son.
     
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  42. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    Yes, because it would be wrong to give tennis the benefit of the doubt when we have no real proof to cause us to doubt anything.


    Federer of course being completely out of the equation even though he has had the most suspicious performances out of all players and a very strange and fake bout of Mono.:roll:

     
    #92
  43. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    Dont be mad because Nadal's drugs were worse than Feds.

    Must be because he has fewer slams.
     
    #93
  44. Netzroller

    Netzroller Semi-Pro

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    Interesting how this thread is all about Nadal.
    If you believe and accept what the guy says it means all top players do it, including Federer. You could even say that Federer is the most wicked guy, being by far the most succeful player yet never being accused of using PED...
     
    #94
  45. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
     
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  46. benjamins_80

    benjamins_80 New User

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    Very interesting. I had not thought much about the role of EPO in tennis since it is known as an endurance sport drug but with matches that last five hours why wouldn't they be using it.
    I am not convinced that these guys are all doing testosterone because I think you would see more muscular physiques but I could very well see people doing EPO or other designer drugs for recuperation.

    It is known that Djokovic has started spending time in an oxygen pod to increase oxygen saturation for improved recovery. Here is a link to a Wall Street Journal discussing it:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904787404576532854267519860.html

    It isn't hard to imagine he or others would do more to gain that edge. You have to admit, for a guy that was known to run out of juice only two years ago, his performance/endurance at this years AO is nothing short of incredible.
     
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  47. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    this year? His entire last year was a complete physical 180.

    But as others have said, I think it is wide spread and endemic.

    I admit I have a naive hope or belief that Federer is clean only because

    1) he is declining as you would expect an older player to do.
    2) he has told WADA and other sports agencies to keep his blood samples for 8 years after he retires.


    Then again, it could be he is taking stuff so good the testing wont be able to detect it for another 20 years...
     
    #97
  48. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    #98
  49. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    I think Bartleby has lost it.

    Its like he has suffered Nadal overload.
     
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  50. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Wow, lucky you. I don't recall any Ugandan LDR's of note, so not sure where you would have reached. I did dig this out though...
    http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-17/...da.runner_1_ugandans-medals-meter?_s=PM:WORLD

    Sadly, Uganda sort of immediately brings the name Idi Amin to mind. Used to read about that as a kid, decades ago.
     

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