Producing topspin with closed stance?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by racquet_jedi, Oct 7, 2007.

  1. racquet_jedi

    racquet_jedi Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,222
    I was taught by my dad to use an eastern forehand grip and to hit flat. If I switched my grip to between an eastern and semi-western, (would that be called semi-eastern?) would I be able to produce topspin (even just a little) with a closed stance?
     
    #1
  2. jasoncho92

    jasoncho92 Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    900
    Semi-eastern and semi-western are the same grips. And its definitely possible to produce topspin w/ a close stance because i do and i use the same grip as you. Its actually really easy to
     
    #2
  3. racquet_jedi

    racquet_jedi Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,222
    kay, thanks
     
    #3
  4. wihamilton

    wihamilton Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    1,535
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    I wouldn't recommend hitting your forehand w/a closed stance -- use neutral or open. The more extreme your grip, the more body rotation you need to get your racket through the strike zone. A closed stance doesn't allow you to rotate the body as much as either of the other two.
     
    #4
  5. racquet_jedi

    racquet_jedi Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,222
    Ok, what's a neutral stance? I've heard of closed, open, and in-between so what's neutral?
     
    #5
  6. Uthree

    Uthree Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    143
    Location:
    Australia
    Yes, Like wihamilton suggests, hit open stance.
     
    #6
  7. AceofBase

    AceofBase Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    297
    Location:
    Morganton, NC
    neutral stance is where you just stand there not to close or open, take a wider stance so that you turn and push more into your shot which enable you to hit almost any grip too. And dont forget to brush up or side way if you still use the eastern grip. And plus a with a wider stance its better cause its set you up for the run better moving too.
     
    #7
  8. wihamilton

    wihamilton Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    1,535
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Neutral stance is where you are sideways to the net. In other words, your feet are parallel with the sidelines.
     
    #8
  9. racquet_jedi

    racquet_jedi Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,222
    Oh, wait, then I do use neutral stance, I always thought closed was when your facing sideways to the net.
     
    #9
  10. jasoncho92

    jasoncho92 Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    900
    Closed is more like when your right foot is behind your left on your forehand
     
    #10
  11. Noveson

    Noveson Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,241
    They are the same thing;)
     
    #11
  12. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    5,892
    No, they aren't the same thing. When you are in an open stance, your feet are facing toward the net, or turned in the direction you are hitting. When you are in a neutral stance, your feet are perpendicular to the net or where you are hitting. In the closed stance, your feet actually slightly face away from the net or away from the direction you are hitting.

    Most people with a one-handed backhands hit with a closed stance on the majority of their backhands.

    Most people who hit with a modern forehand use the open stance because they push and torque off the leg on the hitting side. In a closed stance, your weight will naturally want to shift toward the offhand side.
     
    #12
  13. paulfreda

    paulfreda Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,614
    Location:
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Producing topspin with a closed stance.
    Think about it.
    There is no room for the low to high finish from a closed stance.
    Tom Okker in the 60's would hit top with a Continental but he hit the ball back at his right hip and hit what we now refer to as a reverse FH finishing on the same side.
    On the other hand with a SW or W grip one hits out front with an open or semi-open stance and there is nothing to block the finish on the left side.
    Think windshield wiper in front of you.

    A closed stance is best for a flat or cut-drive shot.
     
    #13
  14. Geezer Guy

    Geezer Guy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,792
    Location:
    Big Canoe, GA
    You can put topspin on the ball from any stance. It's just a matter of hitting low to high.
     
    #14
  15. Uthree

    Uthree Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    143
    Location:
    Australia
    I agree. We can hit topspin from any stance but the easiest stance to hit topspin and is the open stance partly bcause clearing out the left hand side is easier. Racket jedi should check out the www.bradlangevad.net. Explains this concept best and its free.
     
    #15
  16. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    That's not true. I hit with both an eastern and a closed stance, and produce topspin very easily, and I don't hit a reverse FH.
     
    #16
  17. Uthree

    Uthree Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    143
    Location:
    Australia
    This is the old chestnut isn't it closed v open stance. Even the top biomechanists coaches can't agree on it. Love to see them head to head. So its what you experience I suppose. I sat open stance unless out of position. Many coaches still teach closed stance for beginners which then then have to re-teach which then needs to be retaught.
     
    #17
  18. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2005
    Messages:
    3,164
    I can hit a topspin FH using a closed stance and a earstern BH
    grip for my forehand. Is it optimal? no. can it be done? yes.
     
    #18
  19. paulfreda

    paulfreda Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,614
    Location:
    Bangkok, Thailand
    I did not mean to say it was not possible.
    It just isn't a natural technique; top from a closed stance.
    Of course it can be done.
    Lay your wrist way back and hold it; then hit even with your front hip and you can do it.

    Look at old clips of tennis back before 1975.
    It was all flat balls and cut shots. Especially the women.
    Did Mac or Jimmy hit top ? Rarely.
    This is because the game was played on grass and equipment was wood with very small heads. I cannot believe how small my old T2000 is.
    The modern extreme grips [which allow and encourage more open stances] came in as grass faded from being the dominant surface and equipment began using technologies available. First metal then graphite, then composites.
    Yes many still play with Easterns now.
    But they rarely are known for hitting lots of topspin.
    Why do you think Lyndsey hits so many reverse FHs ?
    And name me any player who hits Eastern who wins on clay.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2007
    #19
  20. z-money

    z-money Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    461
    Location:
    Kansas
    goof you can make topspin even with an eastern. swing low to high abit steeper and hit the ball early. that changed grip will help but still i can hit better than average topspin with a continental grip you just gotta have some fun with it is all. think PETE SAMPRAS smallest stick but the most spin. in 2001 or 2002 they tested who puts more rpms on the ball. and my more than double it went to pistol pete. pete once hit a serve at rafter and it went clean through the string bed. now thats some spin
     
    #20
  21. Slazenger

    Slazenger Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,074
    :rolleyes: Exactly what is unnatural about this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNm-Vo38Jeo&mode=related&search=

    I know you are in love with extreme grips but try to be objective in your advice. Especially to people who do not have the technique or the strength to make these grips feasible for them.

    I'm not quite sure what this has to do with the original post. We aren't talking about pros here.

    Anyways to the OP, you can produce plenty of topspin with a closed stance with your grip.
     
    #21
  22. Slazenger

    Slazenger Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,074
    #22
  23. Slazenger

    Slazenger Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,074
    #23
  24. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,174
    Great job, Slazenger. Shows that people who say you can only hit a shot one way (especially only the "modern" way) are being silly.
     
    #24
  25. soyizgood

    soyizgood G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    11,323
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    It's called extreme eastern. I use that grip and it allows for good topspin and for hitting flat. It feels more natural for me to use that grip.
     
    #25
  26. paulfreda

    paulfreda Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,614
    Location:
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Slazenger
    I conceed the point to you.
     
    #26
  27. soyizgood

    soyizgood G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    11,323
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Closed stance works for Eastern type grips because their contact point is closer than that of a semi-Western/Western grip. Because Eastern generates a flatter-type stroke, there's no real need to open up the stance so much. The topspin from a Eastern stroke tends to bounce at the other person and dips low, rather than bouncing really high. With Eastern, the goal is to hit deep, low, and with good court angling.

    I hit my stroke, extreme Eastern, with a mostly closed stance. I will open it up just a tiny bit so I can hit the ball more in front of me. But I can generate topspin with a closed stance for as long as I don't wait for the ball to dip too low for my comfort zone.
     
    #27
  28. LafayetteHitter

    LafayetteHitter Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,954
    Location:
    Lafayette, Louisiana
    I've often wondered if some coaches do this to keep the cash flow coming. Not knocking any of the teaching pros here but i've heard this mentioned by others as well locally. I was taught closed stance for about 6 or 8 months and then basically had the coach switch me over to open stance which then felt odd after hitting closed stance since the beginning. I just couldn't help but wonder if it make it confusing by switching midstream was a cash flow insurance program to help pay for the Hummer.
     
    #28
  29. BillH

    BillH Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Messages:
    236
    I've always thought that the development of the open stance had more to do with footwork and the ability to recover back to the middle of court than producing a certain type of spin. When your front foot is crossed over in front of your back foot, it is more difficult to move sideways as qucikly as from an open stance.
     
    #29
  30. Uthree

    Uthree Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    143
    Location:
    Australia

    Coaches motives are genuine but I’d like to see them consider that teaching open stance may be better for beginners. At the moment the open stance preference may still be a minority view.
     
    #30
  31. Uthree

    Uthree Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    143
    Location:
    Australia
    Good for movement and also the ideal way to hit the ball. Better for balance, consistency and injury prevention.
     
    #31
  32. paulfreda

    paulfreda Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,614
    Location:
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Coaches should really teach both as there are advantages and disadvantages for both. But coaches are human and may not be able to or want to teach what they are not personally comfortable with. That is why an eclectic approach is valuable; learn from several coaches as few have a grasp of all the complexities of tennis [or most any discipline for that matter].
     
    #32
  33. Uthree

    Uthree Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    143
    Location:
    Australia
    Yes coaches do teach what is personnally comfortable for them. Often the players have to learn the closed stance first which may not be personally comfortable for them and they don't know of any other option. As a student I have experienced this and so have others.
     
    #33

Share This Page