Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by drakulie, Mar 13, 2011.
hats off sir, nice pics keep up the good threads
Anybody know Andreev's specs?
What an outstanding thread, it's things like this that make these boards worth reading. Cheers Drak! You efforts are much appreciated.
As a stringer I cringe at the thought of 30 18x20 poly frames in one day!
I guess since no one else is going to bite I will. What is this variation of a box pattern. For it to work it would almost have to depend on the pattern I guess. I like using a variation of the old Wilson ATW (sort of a box) using the short side for the box and the top cross. It works well on some patterns like mains skip 7 and 9 top and bottom.
Hard to see how it makes a difference but I believe you.
I'd like to add one more "thanks" for keeping us abreast of your adventures!
I don't get it. Does this have anything to do with the box pattern you were using? Otherwise, I am having a hard time explaining this to myself. Like Irvin, I believe, you... I just don't understand.
I know you said it's hard to explain, and gave it your best shot. But... do you mind having another go at it?
Yes it seems to me if I have 16 mains my cross will go over and under 8 mains and the two grommet holes on each side should be on a parallel plain to the string bed so no matter which strings in go over and under as long as they alternate I will have the same amount of friction.
If you use an ATW pattern where there are only 14 mains when tensioning crosses and you do the outside mains at the end I can see it, maybe.
I would think most tensioners are below the string bed so if you were to go over the last mains instead of under you would have less angle and friction on the frame but you are saying the opposite. I believe you but I just don't understand the physics behind it.
As an afterthought if I go under the last main with my cross and push my clamp up on the cross string is it possible there could be less drawback on the clamp? Maybe the cross being held by the clamp (outside and inside the main) makes a difference but I would assume the same would happen if you went over that last main.
Interesting post, to say the least. What was the most troublesome moment at the event? Harrison's prototype? On-court Prestige w/ Luxilon, perhaps?
Got to get down to that tournament one of these days.
All good thoughts Irvin. Thinking out loud, if the last cross goes under the main, you should have a little bit longer string length (the distance between the end main and the next one) to pull since the tensioner is below the racket. That would seem to make it looser but the stringers are saying the friction with the cross above the last main is pulling less tension. I'm still not understanding why it makes a difference, but like you I believe it. I just wish I could wrap my head around it better.
I can't see that either. The string goes through a grommet over and under x strings or under and over the same number and out the grommet on the other side. Same distance no matter where the tensioner is. The only change I can see is if the number of mains strings changes. If say you were doing an ATW and coming back to weave in the outside mains and the cross string get deflected after you have already tensioned them the tension could go up.
This one has me scratching my head and wondering how it happens.
I think I'd need a picture to explain my thought process and since I'm not 100% inclined to believe in my theory, I'll let it go without one.
OK, guys,,,I'll give it another shot.
You want to start your crosses in a way that the majority of your pulls on the crosses are going under the last main on the outside of the string bed.
This has nothing to do with the last cross string, rather, with most of the crosses.
For example, on a Youtek Prestige Pro, which has a 16 x 19 pattern, and I'm stringing a normal one piece pattern, my first cross would go under the first main I encounter. This ensures that crosses 2-18 are being pulled under the last main string on the outside of the string bed.
The theory is, that by going under the outer main on the pulls, there is less friction, and as a result, a tighter string bed.
Hope that helps.
Nice post Drak.
Tell Craig that Mark W from Atl says hello....
Love those Prince machines...
(I've got one of his original Sensors...)
Hey, Mark. Will do!!! I'm sure Craig will get a kick out of it.
Could you email me privately?? Want to ask you something about a frame.
I got it dude, it made pretty good sense the 1st time around.
Not to beat a dead dog but, even at a tournament you string a Head frame 1 piece ATW? (when 2 is specified)
Bigmatt, sorry for not responding sooner. I hadn't noticed your post.
I would say one of the "weirder" moments was when Mcenroe walked in to have his frame strung. He provided a very dry set of gut, which was not even in a package. It looked 20 years old. Must have been string he has had for many, MANY years. Obviously, no one wanted to string it for fear it would snap, but Bill got thru it OK.
As for having racquets "sent off" to have strung during a match, there wasn't really any problems. Racquets got back to the player by the next change-over.
As you could imagine, Harrisons frames were a pain, as were Isners. Luckily, I didn't have to string either.
For me, the worse frame was Kusnitsyn, who uses Poly Star Energy in a 18-20. Using the pattern we did, and with how slippery Energy is, it made these frames a nightmare. I really did not look forward to stringing his racquets, which I had to do until he was knocked out of the tournament.
Also, a few times during the tournament, a coach would walk in to have his players frame strung for their night match and wanted it right away. Unfortunately, other frames were being worked on and the coach had to wait, which they would not be happy about. That said, most players and coaches were accomodating.
One funny moment was when Berankis (who spent a lot of time in the string room, and was very nice) was hanging out in the string room, and happened to pick up what he thought was a set of strings off the table. He asked, "which player uses this string, and what is it?" The "string" in question was a reel of tubing. I explained to him what it is used for and also added he had some in his racquet, which I had strung the night before. (he hadn't noticed) He then understood why his strings kept snapping prematurely at a prior tournament. I told him to contact Yonex and have them send him some new grommet sets.
One other funny moment was Groth charging into the string room yelling out (with humor), "Not that I don't like you guys, but being that your services will no longer be needed being that I bloody fu*ken choked, can I have my reel?" He had literally just gotten off the court after double faulting on match point. He then offered to take us all out for drinks. Unfortunately, we were still all stringing, but got a great laugh. He hung out for a little while thanking everyone, and again inviting us to join him for a night on the town.
Yup. I actually wish we would have been doing some of these frames two piece. Would have made life a lot easier.
Cool....no more 2 piece head frames for me.....unless it's a hybrid.
To put it mildly McEnroe is worthless!
At Last years US open, he commented about the "lousy" string jobs in the string room. That's not good to hear that kind of stuff coming from the announcers both going out to millions of views-especially when McEnroe has no confirmation on precisely what happened.The issue was with Zvonerava's racquet,many frames Vera went through in the first 90 minutes of her semifinal.So Johnny Mc. opens his mouth and tells the millions about the luosy stringers there before he know the answer as to why. It was reported earlier it was the Prince racquet and problems with the throat piece causing the issue, as she had this at other matches as well.
Those idiotic claims cause a lot of hurt to hardworking stringers who take a real pride in their work. I'm sure this is typical for the big Mc. I wrote to the network and told them that McEnroe owed a public appology to the stringers for his thoughtless comment. I'm sure that that note was tossed.
I would not be surprised if he brought in old gut purposely to complain of it snapping.
I wish the network would take him off the announcing job, and maybe giving him a ball boys job.
I recall him saying something like that, and thinking... what the "f"??
Anyway, I agree with you.
Fact is, most of these players don't take care of their frames, and have no idea what could be causing premature breakage, as is the case with Berankis. I have never used so much tubing in my life. It seemed like every other frame had to be tubed in one or two places, and we were showing it to the players to remind them to order new grommet sets. Many of the frames had lead tape missing on one side, while having the lead at the other side. Again, we had to show it to the players, and the frames had to be fixed. One player surprisingly said, "That explains why this frame feels differene than the others". :roll:
Anyway, back to Mcenroe, he was put on the "hit list" for not paying his stringing bill. It gets taken out of their prize money when this happens, but goes to show the type of person he is.
Christ what a chode! That really is dissapointing behaviour from JMac! Shame.
I think we completely understand what you are saying but have no idea of why it makes a difference.
What is the variation of a box pattern you used?
I've also had the enjoyment of stringing his rqts. I agree about the string being slippery/oily. At least the tension wasn't too high. about 22kg??
Groth is a nice guy, and his wife's not bad either ;-)
Here is a good video on why I think strings have a greater tendency to break in the Prince rackets. Look at about 45 seconds into the video.
The technology behind the ports allows the string to pivot at the point on the frame where string bends around the frame or it weakest point. I put tubing on the head of most of the Prince rackets I string.
Drak... another question on Isner's frame and stringjob...
I believe the stringer used tubing in the throat area of Isner's frame. Does Isner use the "hard bridge" or goes without a bridge altogether? Can't feed tubing through the stock soft bridge, so something's up...
Thanks and great thread and pictures.
I was at the BNP Paribas Open at Indian Wells yesterday. I saw Flippo pushing his "String Thing". I also watched the Ryan Harrison/Raonic match, great match, BTW. Ryan seemed to be using a Pure Strom, and not the black proto type in the pictures. I was trying to see where the Stringing Room was, but I think only players and staff had access.
Got any observations or data on players wanting same or different tensions for mains and crosses?
Observations or data on strings used? Or guage? (Assuming 1.25mm.) Were many using two different strings? Was Polystar Energy used much or at all as a cross only string? Or something else?
Did any player use a string job for more than one match?
Thanks for the great thread and great job.
drak, this thread just keeps getting better and better.
regarding tubing, I spoke to a guy who strung for Connors at some tournaments when he was using the T2000. He said that Connors used natural gut (naturally), but required that each turn in his frames be tubed. Now that would be a PITA. He said Connors was always great with the stringers and when he walked in on day 1 would usually ask "OK, who's my b!tch this week?"
This is funny and needs more love. Too bad you couldn't go out later with him as he sounds like a fun guy to hang with.
I assume the players all bring their own string reels to the tournament but what happens if they run out while they are there? Do they borrow from other players who are sponsored by the same string company or do you guys in the stringing room have extra on hand? Do all the pros get all their string supplied to them by a sponsor?
Thanks again for posting all these anecdotes.
I hope you don't mind me butting in. From what I know, players have reels with them. Should they run out, lose, or leave the reel at the site they just left, professional players have contacts with their string companies. Those contacts are usually responsible solely for player needs (if there are enough to warrant) and overnight anything they need to their next venue.
I have no trouble believing Jimbo would say something like that.
You know, the guy I talked to who wound up getting Connors most every tournament after the more senior stringers assigned him the first time, said that Connors always paid and Connors always tipped. Say what you want about Connors, he appears to at least appreciate a good string job.
Unlike Mac according to Drak!
Great thread, drakulie. Thank you! 5 stars!
For some reason, I have zero, nada, nil problem(s) believing that John McEnroe believes the rest of us exist to serve him in any capacity he feels necessary for free.
I got to string for Connors at a tournament in the 80s, and he was delightful: hung around and chatted with us on more than one occasion, played with his daughter like a regular dad, and even remembered we wanted a picutre with him after losing the finals. My opinion of him did a 180 after that event.
Fortunately, he'd quit using the T2000. He quipped: "Bet you guys are glad to not see that thing, eh?" Said he'd had to throw them all out -- even the ones in his trophy case -- because he kept going back to them.
Hi Rabbit: I don't know if you ever strung a T-2000 with nat. gut.
Back in the 60's to early 70's I strung a great number of those racquets.
I only had to string one in Nat. gut, and unlike Connors I had to string this at a high tension as well.
Needless to say, every bend around each wire loop needed tubed, and took a real long time, and concern of breakage. After that job, even though it worked out okay, I refused to string a T-2000 with nat. gut from that point on, was just not worth it at any cost. It was not a bad racquet to string once you did a few, but not with nat. gut.
Your comment brought back memories!
Thanks dark for posting this!
What does isner use? i always thought he used a full red code, but some people on tt have said that he used kirschbaum pro line II. Also harrisons frame had a pht/vs hybrid, but he is playing with a full bed at indian wells
Tecnifibre Pro Red Code 16 String
Very cool Thread. Thanks for the insight!!
Drak, I can't thank you enough for the time and effort you put into this. Kudos!
On another note, did you catch a code in the throat of Young's frame, or were there just retail markings? If there was code, was it a PT57A? I've yet to see any in YT Radical paint, but I have come across a couple in YT Prestige paint.
Very cool. I've never met Connors, but from those I've talked to who have, he's been great. It seems his brash arrogant side only comes out in front of a camera.
Jim, you may have thought it in the past, but now you're going to have it confirmed. You're going to know how geeky weird I am. I have 3 T2000's, all in pristine condition, one of them is the variant the Connors used (the one with the welds at the throat, not the plastic thingy). Anyway, when I get bored, I'll cut the string out of 'em, break out my Wilson sent, Rabbit scanned in .pdf of the stringing instructions, mount them as only they are mounted on my Neos, and string one up.
My wife asked me last time I did it why? Why? Why!? You don't play with them enough to string them. I told her stringing a T2000 was to me like Sudoku was to her.
Oh and drak, please excuse the hijack, it wasn't intentional!
Magic Man!!! Soon, you have to join me on these adventures. You still have to come over and check out the Baiardo.
hey my friend,i hope next year we can work together in another great adventure,thank you so much for the invitation for try your baiardo.i wish met soon we have a lot to talk.
un abrazo.see you soon
uk_skippy, yes, Kunitsyn was in the 22kg range. up or down a kg or two.
And Groth was great. Unfortunately, didn't meet his wife.
Hope all is well across the pond, and thank you for all your support. It really helped me throughout this tournament.
Carolina, here is a better shot of the throat piece on Isner's frame.
I believe we may have been one of the few that were able to handle this frame.
blast, unfortunately, I don't have the data you are referring to but could give you a bit of insight.
Much of the strings were in the 1.25 range or smaller.
PolyStar Energy from my recollection was only used by kunitsyn.
Most players only used their frames once, and immediately had them re-strung. Some didn't even use them once, and yet brought them in the following day for a re-string.
Hey, Rabbit. I've been meaning to call you but have been extraordinarily busy. As for Connors frame, our very own Geoff from the Tennis Warehouse boards was his personal stringer and hitting partner for some time, and would tube Connors frame entirely and string it with a 3 box pattern with natural gut. OUCH!! He also strung for Mcenroe as well as was his hitting partner.
beer, yes, they bring their own reels. Sometimes they borrow from othe players, or buy from us. But mostly they have back up reels.
And yes, I would have loved to go hang out with Groth. He was very funny, and nice guy. LOTS of energy.
My understanding is that he was using Pro Line 2. But keep in mind, a lot is going on in a string room, with a boat load of string lying around, and dozens of frames being worked on in a very short period of time. hard to be 100% accurate on every little detail. But I do recall asking ken what he was stringing with, and he said Pro Line 2. I'll check all my photos and see if I could find his reel in one of them, or find a photo with one of his receipts.
Hey, Mdubb. DY's frames had the retail markings. However, Dodig's frames didn't and did have the pt57 code in them. Here is a photo. Wish I would have gotten a better one.
You are very welcome.
drak, what is Blake's string setup?
^^Luxilon Alu Power 1.25 at 68 lbs.
The reason it makes a difference is that if the string goes under the last main it is inclined downward into the lower, wider part of the clamp teeth. If you go over the last main the string is ascending through the higher, narrower part of the clamp teeth. Especially with slippery strings and clamps that are not diamond dusted the difference is significant. Here's an illustration (note the increase in clamp/string contact). In reality, there is even more clamp string contact when you do the crosses at the widest part of the frame, because there the teeth only stradle 1 or 2 mains (as opposed to the 4 in the pic). Also, most clamp teeth are tapered toward the top, but I am a lazy illustrator.
Thanks! just wondering
Sorry I guess I didn't get it.
Do the strings on A clamp gets more tight than on Clamp B or vice-versa?
What 'drakulie' is saying, is that when the cross string goes over the outside main (B) the string is slipping through his clamp. The only way he will have less tension is for the string to slip with all else being equal. Unless of course he let one racket sit for a while and loose tension and then compared it to a freshly strung racket. I have a suspecion the clamps are not slipping but there is something else that is changing somehow somewhere to throw off the readings. I have no idea what it could be at this point.
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