ProKennex: Moving particles= unaccuracy? Please advise

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by danbrenner, Jan 21, 2014.

  1. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    I would say somewhat less than 4.0 but that's without seeing you play in a competitive match. Things that I would expect from a 4.0:

    There are a lot of obvious areas for improvement but that should go on the other forum.

    Thanks for the video.
     
  2. GoSurfBoy

    GoSurfBoy Semi-Pro

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    Thanks M. I was hitting with one of the girls at IW, and he was coming as we were leaving, and I had a demo of his frame in hand, and it was like 'heeeeeeeeeey.. (laughing)..we're the only ones'.

    Something kinda' cool. The cardboard spec-ad in the middle? There's also a pre-cut, push out stencil for the strings (I'm not a 'stencil guy', but I'm supposed to mark my frames with the supplied one). Also, the grommets are 'woofer'-like (hadn't ever strung one before).

    Diggin' these sling bags for the frames. I travel VERY light to practice/matches, and most tourneys; Sling bag, and one or two of these racket slipcovers (2-3 frames) will suffice. Every maker should give them out.

    Grip is 3/8, but feels smaller. Measures right, though.

    Sound: Maybe with the older ones there is some kind of sound. I wondered about that and forgot to include it, but even with a stethoscope, there's simply no sound, nor the well-used demos I'd tried, with these.

    UPDATE: Hitting since Sunday, now. Dream frame. Does everything very sweetly. Great power. Very happy - after sooooo many demos - to settle in. It REALLY is a light Pro Tour 630 (I'm playing the 18x20 version 295), or pro stock frame. I believe the quality of the carbon is higher than what's used in general retail, and that translates into a much more responsive and solid frame - 'old-school'. I'm playing it stock, and I'm generating a big ball with L-Tec O/S. I like lighter frames, more even balance.

    Hit with a tour girl yesterday who is on break. Did mostly drills. Frame performed like a scalpel, and she was like a ball machine, just grinding - great stuff. And although I'm putting in the court time (4 hours of drills and practice, yesterday), I think I'm seeing some 'just a great frame' improvements, especially at net; Very precise, great touch and feel, precise approaches. Wicked kick on serves.

    I realize reviewing the frame is now 'off-topic' (and a reason I rarely come on here), but TT is always good for a laugh.

    Cheers
     
  3. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    Sound like you're living the good tennis life.
     
  4. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    The inertia from the ionic/kinetic particles don't throw off your FH and turn you into a puddle of inconsistency? :)

    Please advise
     
  5. GoSurfBoy

    GoSurfBoy Semi-Pro

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    I can generate my own puddle of inconsistency - I don't need a specific frame to help me do that.

    I can generally pick up a frame and simply go play. It really doesn't make a huge dif' to me, especially not in a psychological sense, but for me to pick The One, then that frame has to shine.

    Tennis IS an intensely psychological game - more than ANY sport there is, so if someone thinks something is moving, or not right, or is 'weird', then it's a factor that makes you conscious of something you shouldn't really even be aware of, HOWEVER....there is enough to focus on without creating something, too.

    Gotta' run. Grind sesh'.
     
  6. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    [​IMG]
     
  7. RedBeard

    RedBeard New User

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    I've never felt like my PK racquets have a mind of their own, but I will admit that the kinetic system does limit the amount of feel/feedback you get on off-center hits. So if you're someone who likes to make contact outside the sweetspot, I could see how it would be very difficult to get used too.
     
  8. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    I played exclusively with the 5G for a couple of years when I was recovering from TE and never felt the particles affected the frame's swing.
     
  9. keithfival

    keithfival Professional

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    I had a great month with the Q295, really upped the power in all my shots, but actually my left elbow got very sore on my 2HBH. Very strange, perhaps going from a 104 to a 98 led me to too many slight mishits, dunno...but that's why I didn't switch to it. If it was a 100 or 102 I'm pretty sure I would have.

    As far as the particles causing inaccurate shots, it appears this controversy will only be settled by a backhand-only death match!! Jack, this match MUST be videotaped!:)
     
  10. racertempo

    racertempo Semi-Pro

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    But because they "think" it is bad does not mean it is creating inaccuracy.
     
  11. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    don't hold your breath
     
  12. danbrenner

    danbrenner Professional

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    Hey Jack. Tw came out with the new Extreme line. They have a lite that is 10oz and somewhat flexi. and 100sq in. prob your soulmate of raquets? i cant wait to try the MP
     
  13. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Not really interested in that. Very happy with the Organix 4 at the moment.
     
  14. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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  15. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Well the Asics 109 is getting really favorable reviews everywhere I look. I am mostly intrigued with the racquetball like shape, being a long time racquetball player. The headsize is 109", but it's no wider than a 100".
    Spoke with local TT guy "Ced" who also used similar racquets as me and he loves it and says its no more powerful than the Organix 7-295. I am loving the playability of the Organix 4 right now and have been playing very well with it. I am just being real about my own lack of footwork and trying to match my swing length with the racquet. I can't argue with the on court results.
     
  16. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Well it's been almost 2 weeks and no video.
    That was predictable :)

    On a related note, a very good 4.5-5.0 hitting partner of mine has agreed to play me using only backhands, so I will report back to you guys how this went.
    We should be able to do it soon. Also, he has a VERY GOOD one handed backhand and can hit slice and topspin. He will be a very good guage as to the validity of Dan's claim that he can beat me using only backhands.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
  17. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    [​IMG]
     
  18. danbrenner

    danbrenner Professional

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    Hey Jack. Sorry for not posting a video on time. I honestly have played only one set since. I will make an effort to get back into playing mode this coming week and post. I would not lie to u or our TT brethren.
     
  19. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    OK. I'll be here.
     
  20. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Well it's been over a month and still no video from Danny boy.
    Isn't it curious how the people that love to criticize everyone else's game never post video of themselves? Why do you think that is?
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  21. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Congrats. You have zero credibility with your "TT brethren"
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  22. Magic of tennis

    Magic of tennis Semi-Pro

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    I think it is more in your brain. I agree there is some swish sound but I didn't feel any difference except comfort with PK racquets. I know there are few people talking about sand feeling/sound. If someone think it bothers them they should find something different racquets otherwise it will stick their brain and be bothersome forever.
     
  23. A_Instead

    A_Instead Professional

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    I think that those who have issues with the QTour 295 is a result of playing with the flexy feel compared to the stiffer racquets that are common today. Flex just like stiffness takes some time to get used to... the 1st time I tried a the super flexy EXO Tour I sprayed the ball everywhere... but as I learned how to hit with that flex... I used it to my advantage...Like a bull whip.. you can whip it and snap and come over the ball and put some crazy spin and pace on the ball... SO when I play with the Qtour 295, the flex was not an issue...
     
  24. Chotobaka

    Chotobaka Hall of Fame

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    Danielle seems to have left the building. Pity, I was looking forward to the video.
     
  25. mawashi

    mawashi Hall of Fame

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    Looks like the Dan is the stirred not shaken type of guy lol.
     
  26. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    looks like your prediction was right on the money:

    Originally Posted by Chotobaka:
    "My money says this exchange is going to end with a whimper or an equipment failure".

    Note: Sorry to join the bash Dan party, but he personally insulted me numerous times for absolutely no reason. He went
    postal when I merely asked him to post a video and then more recently in his now famous "goats head soup"
    thread where I responded to him telling a Technifibre sponsored player to "kill himself" (yes, really) and then
    where he proceeded to insult everyone else in that thread that questioned anything he said. Sorry Dan, but
    you really have noone to blame but yourself.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2014
  27. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    Good riddance.
     
  28. mawashi

    mawashi Hall of Fame

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    The dan apparently rates high on the bs meter, first it was the die by the blade, then it was the technifibre and the claims of playing with just about every frame there is... whatever.

    Good riddance lol!
     
  29. junior74

    junior74 Professional

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    I was excited about the backhand only match...
     
  30. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    just wanted to update you guys on this "backhand only" challenge I received from one Dan Brenner a while back.

    So today, me and a friend of mine who is between a 4.5 & 5.0 did our own experiment. He could only hit backhands (except when serving) and I could do what I want. My friend has a very good one handed backhand and also had great footwork, so he can move around to hit a forehand very well.
    He also has a great serve.

    What became very obvious after playing a set like thing is that it was nearly impossible for him to win a game when I served but he was able to hold serve every game, so it was basically a standoff. When I was serving, he had to stand way over to guard the backhand side, so my choices were to still try and hit the backhand corner of the service box or go for one to the other side. This made it very difficult and if someone can just place their serve with some consistency and pace, the other guy has very little chance. When my friend was serving, it was difficult to get a good return back and if I did, it usually was met with a winner. When returning, I only had a chance to exploit his backhand-only issue if I could neutralize the point.

    After trying this, I am convinced that no 4.0 (Dan included) anywhere would be able to beat me (let alone "thrash me") using only backhands. The only way I would lose would be if I double faulted like crazy and that usually doesn't happen. You guys should try your own experiment playing against someone 1 or 1.5 levels up from you and make them hit only backhands.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  31. courtking

    courtking Semi-Pro

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    your friend does not know how to hit the backhand on the forehand side.. what we call is "pine apple" handle.... If he's 4.5/5.0 rating he should stand way over his forehand when he returns your serve and start moving when you toss the ball.. I watched your video.. you will not win the bet if you play against aguy who know how to hit only backhand match.. Anyone here play in Orange COunty, southern cal can chip in.... Many Asian player bet thousand of dollars this way.. or they use a paddle tennis racket to play against weaker player.. Let me find a few video to demonstrate this..

    Here is a few link.. Even they show double but the single is much more deadly.. 4.0/4.5 player would not stand a chance against the guy in a $$ match..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrFSmwj1hzI
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWZ8lqF4w6I
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  32. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    how do you know that? He was standing way over, but it's just too much room to cover. When you stand way over on the deuce side, you pretty much leave the T wide open.

    Your links show some guys playing doubles and they are using some type of paddle. How is that comparable?
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  33. courtking

    courtking Semi-Pro

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    of course you want to leave the T open.. as soon as you toss up your serve, the return move to the left to return it.. You must serve really wide to the forehand to force him use the "pine apple" shot.. Beside, if you can hit 8/10 1st serve down the T, you are not 3.5/4.0 player.. The 4.5/5.0 guy only need to break your serve once to win the match.. Statistically much higher than the lower rank player break his serve.. !! Ranking is quite useless in $$ match.. I have seen some good player loss to a guy just push the ball in.. you can make 2-3 great shots but missed 7-8 shots in a row.. It looks ugly but very effective for some players..
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  34. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    You are talking about guys that practice this sort of thing and are specialists at it. This is not relevant to this conversation. I don't think anyone here has even seen the words "pineapple shot" before? I am talking about normal everyday players. And I am not talking about hitting the T exactly. I am talking about a general area about 2 feet square? You get the ball in that area and the guys standing way wide can't touch it. Also, my toss isn't so easy to read that he can start moving the second the toss goes up.
     
  35. DaveInBradenton

    DaveInBradenton Rookie

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    Wow, what an entertaining and lame thread, all in one!

    One ProKennex basher vs everybody else!

    My experience with PK has been very positive. It certainly mitigated my tennis elbow (now long gone), has helped with my shoulder issue, and I
    still don't need viagra.

    You can have my PK rackets when you pry them from the cold dead fingers of my (semi-western FH) grip.

    Best wishers,
    Hacker Dave
     
  36. ARKustom93

    ARKustom93 Semi-Pro

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    Thx for posting those clips ... Very entertaining!!
     
  37. Brian72

    Brian72 Rookie

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    Yeah, this thread has kind of been like a train wreck. I just can't look away :) Every time it pops up on the first page I gotta open it to see what's coming next.
     
  38. Chotobaka

    Chotobaka Hall of Fame

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    Train wreck, indeed. I am still waiting on the much hyped video and then the backhand death match.
     
  39. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Courtking this is awesome. I play an asian guy now and then who did those money matches. He's good. Its a different level of tennis that is tough to describe. He did not play gimmick matches but he mastered trick serves and spins that mess people up.

    Basically he focused on the serve and return because money matches are all about %. If you have a serve that is almost impossible to break and then are able to pressure the server to hit tight spots which will cause errors, then your chances to win the set and the cash are in your favor.

    While most players work on groundstroke the most, the guys who bet seem to focus their energy on serve/return and their groundstrokes are not really that impressive. So it is easy for them to get someone to throw money down on a set and win it.
     
  40. ARKustom93

    ARKustom93 Semi-Pro

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    Not to throw the derailment off track, but I've heard positive comments in re to T-elbow from a few players and, thinking about it, come to the conclusion, that this 'gimmick' feature actually reduces the amount of frame vibration/oscillation, a known contributor to developing Tennis elbow.

    As for the OP's claim of generating "unaccuracy", no; while ball contact does feel 'different'(I hit with a PK, some years ago), a consistent swing will produce consistent results, so in Dan's case it's the Indian, not the arrow ...
     
  41. courtking

    courtking Semi-Pro

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    I have played with PK Kinetic Original 5G and 10G.. leaded up to 380-390g strung.. THese are excellence rackets but it does feel extra movement/momentum on certain strokes.. I do not think it effects the accuracy of the shots but it feels a little weird.. I thought the butt cap flying off my hand a few times but it's not.. Just b/c the particle moving inside the frame.. Someone here suggested that I have bad rackets b/c they are moving inside a tube but it happens to both of my 5G and 10G..

    This thread is getting really lame b/c the OP Dan just disappear.. Everyone expect a "tous backhand" match but apparently it won't happen so I will put in a few extra clip to make it more interesting.. These guys playing 2 against 3.. One guy with a small chair, one guy with the little kitchen tool against 3 guys (2 with a regular tennis racket and one with paddle tennis).. Yes, their strokes look ugly but I bet any 4.5/5.0 player play against them in $$ match will not stand a chance..
    Their mental game in $$ match is so tough that they will grind out the opponents..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcEJ68nGBzY
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgBevFxkt4I

    I am trying to find a Tous backhand match to demonstrate how it's done.. It is much easier for a good OHBH player than someone here thought it should be.. I know b/c more than 15 years ago, I used to win lots of $$ match on Tous Backhand, Tous Baseline (no volley allowed), Tous Service box (you can only play within 2 small service box), Tous Volley (only hit the volley) and etc.... These matches require lots of mental toughness and stamina to win but honestly, these are "tricked" bet that I would call.. I checked out the opponents and gave him/them some tricked bet base on the skills.. I would make sure the bet 75% of the time in my favor to start the $$ match.. Oh those hungry 3.0/4.0/5.0 player that though they are so good are the easiest to make bet.. Does not matter your skills.. even a pro/6.0/open/ and etc and $$ match can always be setup.. I actually thanked them to help me out when I were a very poor college students :)).. Some of you here know me.. :))
     
  42. junior74

    junior74 Professional

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    The backhand only match would be the perfect warm-up for the world finals in London :)
     

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