Pros that have GUT in the cross

Discussion in 'Strings' started by Lambsscroll, Jan 21, 2010.

  1. Lambsscroll

    Lambsscroll Professional

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    Djokovic, Hewitt and Roddick for starters still or have had natural gut in the cross. My guess its more for the awesome feel gut offers than anything else.
     
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  2. ClubHoUno

    ClubHoUno Banned

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    INCORRECT !

    Djokovic is an all court classy player and he uses gut mains and poly crosses.

    The type of pro players, that often uses poly mains and gut crosses, just do it because they don't pay for it....

    Seriously they would be hard pressed to tell the difference from a gut crosses to a prime multi crosses.....

    Cross strings contributes mainly comfort and control, so they put it in the crosses for the comfort, not for the feel. Feel is 90% in the mains as well as power and spin.

    Crosses are for control and comfort.

    Pro Players that prefer poly mains and gut crosses, grew up playing full poly and just put the gut there for comfort, not feel. We're talking about pusher baseline players like Hewitt and Murray Redtard and hard server hitters like Roddick. These all have poly mains and gut crosses.

    Feel and touch players with an attacking all court game often prefer gut mains and poly crosses - Djokovic, Hass (used to have full gut) and Federer. Even Ivan Lendl prefer Gut mains and poly crosses.

    Do the math :p
     
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  3. jazzyfunkybluesy

    jazzyfunkybluesy Banned

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    I read Fed, Djokovic, Murray, Cilic and Hewitt play gut in the mains and Alu in the crosses. Roddick is still reported as using a poly main and gut in the crosses.
     
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  4. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    have read the following use(d) GUT crosses: Roddick, Sharapova, Ginepri, Tim Henman, Martina Hingis, Jelena Jankovic, Paradorn S....

    btw - what math u talking about?
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
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  5. Lambsscroll

    Lambsscroll Professional

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    I'm sure pros experiment time to time. Thats why I said "still or have had natural gut in the cross" like Djokovic. Gut offers more than just comfort.
     
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  6. star 5 15

    star 5 15 Professional

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    I will check later on USRSA logs and check to see about some other players but I know hewitt and djoker both use gut mains with alu power crosses. Andy murray does use it in the crosses though.
     
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  7. jazzyfunkybluesy

    jazzyfunkybluesy Banned

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    For current pro players. I think he is saying that a gut m and poly c is a better setup for the guys. The poly m gut crosses seem to give the ladies more power however the majority of guys prefer the extra feel and control of the gut m and poly crosses.
     
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  8. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    but what kinda math is that? appears to be somewhat subjective...
     
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  9. jazzyfunkybluesy

    jazzyfunkybluesy Banned

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    Well if 90 % of the touring dudes that use hybrids use gut m and poly c and 10 % use the opposite I would call that factual. Club HoUno preferring that setup is definitely subjective.:)
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
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  10. Lambsscroll

    Lambsscroll Professional

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    Are the pros that use all poly missing out on something? Do you think some pros like the feel of poly over gut?
     
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  11. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    yeah...me seeing YOUR math.
     
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  12. jazzyfunkybluesy

    jazzyfunkybluesy Banned

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    ^^^Im not following BC.
     
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  13. jazzyfunkybluesy

    jazzyfunkybluesy Banned

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    It seems the majority of guys who play full poly qualify as being ball bashers if I may say so.
     
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  14. Bad Dog

    Bad Dog Semi-Pro

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    Yes, the pros that use all-poly are missing out on great feel/touch, etc. However, they may put up with dull touch, dull feel – because they are often compensated to play with such strings. Almost nobody likes the dead, dull feel of poly strings. String companies may seem to push poly toward non-world touring players, because poly may be relatively cheaper to make, with a higher markup price to the consumer.

    For the touring pros who use natural gut, it seems logical that those with smaller racquet head sizes may tend to place gut in the mains. Those with larger racquets would seem to place gut in the crosses.
     
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  15. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    gut main and lux cross

    This log shows fed, murray, hewitt all use gut main and lux cross. Isner uses pro redcode full.


    http://www.racquettech.com/cgi/pro_logs.cgi


    Check out these. Looks like Weiss cannon explosive would make a good cross string, with good power/tension loss.
    http://www.stringforum.net/top5.php?cat=SS sppp
    http://www.stringforum.net/stringsearch.php
    http://www.weightloss-hq.biz/recovery-drinks-and-bars/fluid-recovery-drink-review.html
    http://www.goldenpicklejuice.com/?pjsid=3
     
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  16. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    Djokovic has never had gut in the cross as far as I know, always in the mains.
     
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  17. Federerkblade

    Federerkblade Professional

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    The majority of men seem to have gut in mains, iv always had it crosses, I should try it in mains but longevity i guess will suffer.

    It lasts a while in the crosses
     
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  18. Superman1272

    Superman1272 Rookie

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    I have always thought that putting poly in the mains would add a higher amount of control than what a full bed of NG would offer to the pro level player.

    I DO agree with you that NG in the crosses adds a level of comfort, though... I just am at odds with you on the mains.

    Poly Mains = Better Control
    NG Crosses = More Comfort
     
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  19. ClubHoUno

    ClubHoUno Banned

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    I agree, I didn't say the mains were not for control, just said crosses mainly had to do with control and comfort.

    Mains contributes to most of the power, spin, feel, comfort and also some control.
    So a poly in the mains most definitely will add some extra control to the stringbed.

    Placing the gut in the mains will add extra feel, power, spin and comfort but you will not get the same level of 'dead control' you get from a poly in the mains.....

    So basically gut mains and poly crosses is for feel, touch and S&V players, while poly mains and gut crosses most often are for baseline bashers, who visit the net on clear winners and when they shake hands after the match (Roddick, Murray and that type of players)
     
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  20. Meaghan

    Meaghan Hall of Fame

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    Most players on tour use poly over gut, in fact most of the top 10.

    As for those who use gut very few have a full bed of it they always tend to use it as a cross to control the power and elasticity.

    I also agree that gut crosses is a waste and is a factor of softening the poly.

    As for the highlighted above, its just nonsense.
     
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  21. Bad Dog

    Bad Dog Semi-Pro

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    Meaghan: That's only what you say. Let's see if you are able to address the substance:

    1. Do you seriously believe that top pros are not compensated to claim to play/endorse poly strings? If so, you might be in the minority.

    2. Do you really like the dead, dull feel of poly strings? If so, you might be in the minority. You might like to try comparing the feel of poly against natural gut or good multifilaments, or even syn gut.

    3. Would you seriously disagree that poly is relatively cheaper to make, with a higher markup price to the consumer? Consider the more expensive complexity of making natural gut or good multifilaments with thousands of internal strands.

    4. Excerpt from the Tennis Warehouse learning center:Polyester - a very durable string designed for string breakers-not much power or feel. Polyester strings became very popular with ATP players, because it provides added durability, doesn't move and "deadens" the stringbed. While this isn't a desireable feature for most recreational players, it is for many of todays ATP and (some) WTA players.”

    Tennis Warehouse makes it clear that poly strings may not be desirable for most tennis players who are not on world tour (ATP and WTA). Except for you, not many people may seriously believe that the published statement from Tennis Warehouse is “nonsense”

    Thanks, and God Bless.
     
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  22. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    I love the feel of Poly main and Synthetic Gut crosses. It's really the best combo to me besides using natural.

    You can string a lot tighter and get more control. The SG does not last as long, but the feel and feedback is a lot better with it in there. I am sure Natural in there must be awesome.
     
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  23. Superman1272

    Superman1272 Rookie

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    This article about poly strings (Luxilon in particular) goes against your first two points directly. Very few, if any, pros are paid to play with Luxilon. Most even have to pay the going rate just to get it. I doubt the people that make a living playing tennis take their string choice lightly. I would guess they really LIKE the feel of poly.
    http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/gear.aspx?articleid=2989&zoneid=24
     
    #23
  24. mlewis721

    mlewis721 Rookie

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    I put the stringing log from the Tecnifibre string team at the 2009 French Open into a database and filtered out all the duplicate records and full bed stringings and came up with these folks using hybrids. Pretty much as I expected. About 90% using poly mains, not the other way around (in spite of what you may have heard from Darren Cahill).

    Here's the poly main folk:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    Here's the gut main folk:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2010
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  25. Bad Dog

    Bad Dog Semi-Pro

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    Superman1272: Thank you for posting the article – don’t worry, it does not contradict the two earlier points. :) The top pros, like Federer and Nadal, have their faces on string packages. Does anybody feel they were not compensated? And even when their faces do not appear on particular string packages, the overall string compensation takes into consideration the added sales from people talking about the string brands used.

    You and I may also be right in the sense that even most pros on the world tour simply cannot make a lot of money at all from any big product compensation/endorsement deals, which are mostly for the top pros.

    Outside of the very top world's best – touring tennis pros seem to have a difficult life, and don't seem to make a lot of money – even if they play in Grand Slams. Sponsored players often get strings for free, but if they prefer other strings, they often have to pay for it, whether natural gut, poly, etc.

    We may also agree that even the world tour pros who are not the top players with profitable endorsement deals, take their choice of equipment seriously. They may use poly for durability, for example because they may break non-poly strings too quickly.
    • On one Division 1 team (not pro, but close), the top singles players break 16 gauge multifilament within 20 or 30 minutes. That is too short – even though multifilament feels better.
    • Or players may still hit very hard – but even if they don't break poly – they still generally have the opportunity to restring after around 15 hours of heavy hitting.

    For those who are not trying to make a living as pros on the world touring circuit – here are some issues that may be worth considering:
    1. Does the player generally break 16 gauge multifilament or natural gut within 15 hitting hours or so? No/Yes

    • If No, then the durability of poly may not be any advantage. Also, the player may not be hitting hard enough or swinging fast enough to be able to attain more spin from poly than from other strings. A better option could be multifilament, natural gut or syn gut – for better feel, touch, accuracy – and good spin.
    • If Yes; i.e., if the player generally breaks 16 gauge multifilament or natural gut within 15 hitting hours – then poly may be a decent choice because non-poly strings would probably break faster.

    2. If the answer is No to the question above, i.e., if the player does not break 16 gauge multifilament or natural gut strings within 15 hours or so – then does the player generally re-string within 15 hours or so? No/Yes.
    • If the player does not restring within 15 hours of heavy hitting, it is known that poly strings tend to lose their properties quickly. So at that point there may be no benefit to using poly.
    • If the player is not a heavy hitter, there may also be no benefit to using poly. As mentioned above, the player may not be hitting hard enough or swinging fast enough to be able to attain more spin from poly than from other strings. Again, a better option could be multifilament, natural gut or syn gut.

    It may be safe to assume that most tennis players – and most people on this tennis board – don't break poly within 15 hours or so, and/or do not generally re-string within 15 hitting hours. For most players – multifilament, natural gut or syn gut may be much better options for better feel, touch, accuracy. Remember, it appears that poly strings generally cannot even give better spin if heavy hitting players are not generally restringing within about 15 hours of heavy hitting.

    Of course, sometimes it may just be fun to buy and try out the poly strings that many touring pros use – just like it's fun to buy the poly shirts that the pros are given for free. That's how the tennis companies make their profits from the general public. :) However, if the player doesn't hit hard enough to restring every 15 hours or so – then poly strings may turn out to be a disadvantage – with less feel, less accuracy and thus less control. :)
     
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  26. Lambsscroll

    Lambsscroll Professional

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    I guess it isn't a waste having gut in the cross.
     
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  27. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    #27
  28. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    Djokovic uses lux 1.25mm main at 28kg, and gut on the crosses at 27 kg. 61.6 59.4 lbs.
     
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  29. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Again, it isn't if you're a touring pro who changes racquets every 7 - 9 games and/or restrings his/her frame every day.

    It is a waste if you're a club player like those on the boards. In a blind test, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between gut crosses and PSG or a good multi. That is the point.

    Pros, especially those who grew up on clay, now grew up playing poly. They did so because it was durable and they didn't have to spend their money as juniors on restringing as often. Pros are reluctant to change anything about their set up, so they keep playing poly. When you make more money than God, and you make your money with your racquet, you probably don't mind spending $25 extra to get gut crosses. But as advertised many times before, pros aren't gear heads. They're pros.
     
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  30. Lambsscroll

    Lambsscroll Professional

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    You've got to be joking? Guys (club players)on these boards cant tell between a good multi and gut if placed in the cross?

    As far as cost. The high end multies like Babolat XCel Power cost 20 bucks. BTW gut doesn't lose its elasticity like synthetic. So it performs longer.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2010
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  31. mlewis721

    mlewis721 Rookie

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    I think it is well known that Federer and Djokovic use gut/poly hybrids, but their racquets are strung by Priority One, not the on-site team. The vast majority of racquets strung at a major are strung by the on-site stringing team which in this case was the Tecnifibre team. I think P1 is stringing for an additional 8 players, not enough to make much of a dent in the data even if they all used gut/poly setups.

    BTW, at the French, the list of players who did not hybridize at all was almost 3 times as long as the list of players that did.

    Non-hybrid: 285 players
    Gut/poly: 14 players
    Poly/gut: 94 players
     
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  32. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    whoa!!! that TOTALLY destroys the notion that pros don't use GUT in crosses.

    thanks for posting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2010
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  33. ClubHoUno

    ClubHoUno Banned

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    No not according to what the guy, who strings for him says.

    He may have changed back and forth to test - but Djokovic played a full bed of X-one 3 years ago, and is NOT a poly mains fan.

    So I would strongly believe, that he uses gut mains and poly crosses - like Federer.
     
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  34. ClubHoUno

    ClubHoUno Banned

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    No one has said, that pro's don't use gut crosses.

    Whaty we said was, that gut crosses is a waste, because the cross strings only contribute less than 10% of the feel in a string bed.

    The pro's prefer poly mains, and wants a string to soften it up a bit.
    Gut and Prime multi cost nothing for the pro's, so they just toss gut in the crosses.

    Gut has better durability than a multi, so they also get better durablity out of it.
    It's a bummer for a pro to have to break strings in the middle of a point, so gut is tossed into the crosses even though most pro's and tennis players in general would have a hard time feeling the difference between gut or Prime Multi in the crosses.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2010
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  35. star 5 15

    star 5 15 Professional

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    federer is strung by P1 that's why hes not on that list. that was just the roland garros log. Also I'm not sure why murray is on there because P1 strings for him too and he doesnt even use that. he uses alu mains and babolat team 1.25 gut. Ron Yu said that himself. If I had to guess it was probably just a coach that had a racquet strung.
     
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  36. star 5 15

    star 5 15 Professional

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    Club is right. Djoker never used poly mains.
     
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  37. star 5 15

    star 5 15 Professional

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    I will have to disagree about multi crosses versus gut crosses. They are NOT the same. I have used both. the multis feel like mushy non spin friendly string in comparison to the gut. The gut feels great once you get the tension right.
     
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  38. JStar7

    JStar7 Rookie

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    For those who say that Gut/Multi cross is a waste, its not. It depends on what you or whoever the pro that's using it prefers. Alot of people don't want to put up with what full poly does to their arm, so they soften up the bed a bit with Gut/Multi in the cross. Its whatever the pro wants to do. If they want to put gut in the cross and you think its a waste, who cares? Your opinion does not matter to them. Stop wasting your time complaining about it on this thread and go improve your game with your own string, no matter what it is. End of all the Haterade going around this thread.
     
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  39. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    yeah stop posting BS cause the facts say otherwise.
     
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  40. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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  41. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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  42. Lambsscroll

    Lambsscroll Professional

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    ClubHoUno, I dont think the pros that make a living on the tour take their string setup as lightly as you suggest. It sounds like your saying they just through in gut in the cross cause they can afford it NOT because of the great attributes gut offers.
     
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  43. ClubHoUno

    ClubHoUno Banned

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    OK, let me rephrase that then :oops:

    Maybe they feel they get better comfort and more crisp response from natty gut crosse, compared to using a Prime Multi in the crosses - but I would have to think the difference is minute and not comparable to the difference in feel you would get from using a natty gut mains versus a Prime Multi mains.

    That was just what I was trying to say - no more, no less :D

    Players that prefer Poly mains often are hard baseline bashers without the pristine & pure feel and touch you see among all court players and Serve & Volley players.......
    I would have to say that with the new generation of more soft polys and multi like polys, users of these kinds of poly in general probably will belong to a group of players, that have a bit more feel and touch for their strings than the old school hard core baseline bashing stiff poly users ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2010
    #43
  44. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    Verdasco is a good example, using bb orig. lux, 58/56lbs., of a basher without a lot of touch. I know when I sv, gut mains allow for greater touch and control on improvised shots, such as drops, low and away shots of all types. There has to be a reason why Fed, Murray, Djokovic, all use the same set up/string wise. Yeah, Fed strings lower, but his game uses all types of touch and control. I belive the majority of baseline bashers eschew touch almost completely, as they have no use for it, growing up using the cheap polys. Roddick also uses the gut cross, but Delpotro uses alu 1.25mm 61/61lbs. What gives with Davydenko, using polystar energy, with his touch and control? Pretty much a robotic, boring basher, with great accuracy. The best of both worlds is a gut main, with alu/similar cross. The reason most drop the tension on crosses, frequency of sonic return is higher due to shorter length, so it's an attempt to equalize the string bed, to return a more consistent feel.
     
    #44
  45. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    Hold crap ClubHoUno, read this post above ^^ and stop spitting out your extremely opinionated non-factual nonsense.

    And to point out, according to the stringer log posted in this thread

    Mike Bryan uses Poly Mains/Gut Crosses while Bob Bryan uses Gut Mains/Poly Crosses and they play exactly the same (with exception of Bob being a bigger serve and lefty). It all comes down to preference. Telling someone they're wasting money doing this and that is dumb because "you" don't like a certain set up.
     
    #45
  46. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    and one question, I keep seeing people posting that murray uses poly/gut or gut/poly but I've only seen him use poly/gut

    [​IMG]

    is it possible he switches set ups for the clay season?
     
    #46
  47. ClubHoUno

    ClubHoUno Banned

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    I always try to point out, that gut crosses is a waste of money IMHO - in my personal opinion.

    Murray could very well change setup for the clay season - I find myself using my 4 Babolat PST GT with poly mains and Prime Multi crosses during the hot summer on clay, because I get a different more 'harsh' and firm feel from that setup.

    I thought it would be obvious that this entire debate igen HIGHLY subjective and based on personal preference. It just so happens that I think gut mains/poly crosses is like PURE heaven and poly mains/gut crosses is a waste of good Natty GUT.

    MURRAY is IN MY VIEW not a touch and feel player, but a boring defensive baseline pusher, that bases his entire game on returning and getting all balls back and then some times (but far to seldom)astound the opponent with a winner.

    So he fits perfect to the poly mains/gut crosses type of pro player, that I personally don't like to see play tennis.
     
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  48. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    The question about Murray was not necessarily directed at you but thanks for your opinion. But I will say, STOP classifying players based on their string set up, utterly pointless.
     
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