Discussion in 'Strings' started by pvaudio, Nov 22, 2010.
Table of contents is complete in the first post.
Thanks for the TOC - it was a necessity for such a great thread. As everyone else mention there's loads of great string info here.
Yes sir, yes indeed! Notable examples:
Gosen OG Sheep Micro
White: More powerful, more durable, much stiffer feel
Natural: More feel, much crisper, softer with less durability
Topspin Cyber Twirl
Orange(clay): Good tension maintenance, good spin, good feel, low power
Black: Atrocious TM, astounding spin, low feel, zero power
Technifibre X-1 Biphase
Red: Stupid amounts of power, no feel
Natural: Good power, decent feel, non-linear play (starts terrible, then plays like a dream, then ends as a trampoline)
Red: Crisper, less powerful, more control, more feel
Grey: Softer, more powerful, less feel, more spin (more people prefer this, I don't)
Blue: Stiffer, less powerful, more control, more feel
Grey: Softer, more powerful, less control, more spin (more people prefer this, I don't)
And that's just off of my head out of the strings that I have sitting on my desk at the moment from stringing for customers. There's loads of examples out there. Kirschbaum PL2, PSGD, etc.
Dang, now you are making me wish I had posted my TOC in chronological order rather then ranking setups. Thanks for putting that together, I know it will benefit the rest of us.
I'm really digging B5E right now.
B5E is a must try for any 4.0+ player that utilizes spin.
Great Information PV thank you.
New string in today. Very interesting one as well, although I don't know what to think of it yet. As a frequent e Bayer, I come across a lot of different strings regularly. Lots of cheap natural gut, lots of fake big name polys, and then the normal collection of slightly discounted strings. I'd always been curious about this one as it has a very strange description, and people are always bidding on it. So, I decided to throw caution to the wind and put up a max of $30 and ended up with 5 sets of the stuff. I'm 100% sure many of you have seen this on there and have wondered what it was, and since I can't post a direct link to the Bay, I'll post the screenshot of the description:
Here are my pictures of unwrapping:
I haven't actually tried this stuff yet, but it smells like natural gut, looks like natural gut, burns like natural gut, feels like natural gut and stretches like natural gut. Since the claims are so bold, I'm 100% certain that it's simply gut with the "high-tech" jargon added in to make it seem special if it plays well. For example, if the reference standard for gut was Gaucho or Global gut then someone came out with VS Team, they could get away with the same nonsense in the advert since it does play much better. Whether or not it's down to the carbon nanofibers in this case is another issue. I'm in the camp that says: BS.
Agree, even at 10% it should make it so stiff that you can't use it as tennis string.
If I can just get through some of the jargon, a carbon nanofiber is simply a form of carbon. Carbon comes in a bunch of allotropes which all of you are familiar with: diamonds and graphite being well known. All that a nanofiber is is the special arrangement of the atoms to create small plates or cones. They're then manipulated in various ways to usually make composite materials. They can even be literally spun into thread to make superman like clothing that has the potential to put kevlar to rest. Either way, having them in a natural gut string just doesn't make sense from a logical nor a chemical standpoint. "Down to the core" also doesn't make sense as natural gut is a twisted natural fiber and has no core anyway.
The titanium hydroxide coating is also a load of crap. TiO2(OH)2 isn't commonly found in nature. The way you get it is when you mix titanium dioxide (the TiO2 part; a basic white pigment, and is actually what they use at Wimbledon for the lines) with water under certain conditions. Under these conditions, it's very volatile and is only possible to create the compound by undergoing this reaction. I think they meant titanium dioxide since the string is abnormally bright to look at for a natural gut. It's almost as white as old VS gut was, but that had a wax like coating which caused it to seem brighter. This doesn't.
Whoops, I didn't even read it right. It says titanium hydride, TiH2. That's actually even more volatile and shouldn't ever be heated unless you mean to (it's used in pyrotechnics in ignition stages). Seeing as I did my Performaxx "fire test" on this stuff and nothing happened, I'm pretty sure that there is no TiH2 in the gut.
PV, as a gut aficionado is there any noticeable difference between VS Team and Touch, other than gauge?
Indeed there is. As I am not a chemical, biomedical or materials science engineer, I cannot tell you from a scientific standpoint. But I do know this: if I recall correctly from one of the professional stringers on here, VS Team was orignally the thin gauge gut used to string pro player's racquets. It was then introduced for consumers. VS Touch, on the other hand, doesn't have the same responsiveness. Either way, you can't go wrong, but if given the choice, Team all the way.
Thanks. My mind is made up, especially since the price is the same and the Team is 1.25 rather than 1.30 for the Touch. I know you prefer a poly main and gut cross, but would the gut serve to enhace a poly main moreso than a decent multi or would I be better putting the gut in the mains?
In short, what is the benefit of a gut cross as opposed to a multi and does it merit the additional cost?
I do happen to know a polymer scientist, it would be interesting to give him some strings to analyse.
If I use copoly as main would Team be better as a cross than Touch?
How would you compare Revenge with B5E when using them with gut crosses?
Gut crosses vs. synthetic crosses are IMO well worth the difference. They last far longer than any synthetic and provide far greater performance. Would I justify VS as a cross? No. Even though I did do this recently (see a few pages back or so), it was because I found the VS Team half set just lying in one of my storage compartments. I use the Pmaxx gut because it offers incredible performance at half the price of VS. Having played with NRG2 for the majority of my life, I can say that it's night and day. Gut crosses make your poly mains play better, while poly crosses tend to tame the gut. It's a personal preference thing, but until you try gut crosses, syn gut and multi crosses simply do not compare. If you can afford to do it, then definitely do. Again, I used to play VS Team mains for a year so I am well qualified to make the statement on whether it's worth the switch.
If the price is the same, then yes. If the Touch is less expensive, then use that. If they're BT7, then it doesn't matter because they're both awful. If you have BT7 VS gut, save it for a customer and just get some Klip, Performaxx or Pacific. BT7 has ruined the VS name as far as I'm concerned.
I wouldn't. Revenge is a mediocre, absurdly stiff poly with zero feel while B5E is IMO the best baseliner's poly on the market now.
Some people were asking about my playstyle, so here are some videos of me playing with my main hitting partner. I don't believe in endless rallies up the middle, rather, I'll approach off of any ball that I think is worth it in addition to turning the feed into an offensive-defensive point. That lets you work on shot making without needing to play a match. I'll post them in the first post as well.
Nice vids pv.
(nice backhand btw)
Thank you sir! I think I'll be trying B5E with Explosiv! later today or tomorrow to see how it compares. I've never used it even though I own it haha
Is explosive supposed to be more powerful than gut or less?
So what's the verdict on that new 90% gut, 10% whatever string you just received. I found 5 sets for $12 w/ free shipping so I'm thinking of trying it out.
Haven't tried it. I'm going to be restringing my frames, so I dunno if I'll bother with that for awhile. I'd have to go back to using gut mains to really tell if it's magical or not and doing that will completely change my game. As it is right now, I'm right at the level between a 4.0 and a 4.5 and really really want to be 4.5 by the end of the year, so huge changes in strokes aren't on the radar right now. Once I get all of my strokes dialed in and it's just a matter of using the rest of the summer for repetition and strategy, then I'll try gut mains again
Nice strokes, PV. Just wondering, but what hybrids/full beds are you still going to try? I'm always curious for your opinion on strings...
I'm pretty much open to anything, I'll get a list of everything I've got available later this evening up here so you guys can check it out and see. I posted the strokes video so you understand how I hit. If you use all wrist and hit flat, then many of the reviews won't have much utility for you
I can't say that I hit exactly like you, but I use a fair amount of spin off both sides, so I can relate my style enough to yours that I can get get a lot out of your opinions...
i found your genesis typhoon/nrg2 playtesting very interesting. Most people on the boards say the string is extremely powerful (according to rodrigo). How would you compare the string to tornado?
I know you like Scorpion, What other copolys are in the same league as B5E and Scorpion?
You'll have to be more specific there. What do you mean, same league? Similar playing?
Polyfibre TCS is liked by TW playtesters but Ive read it looses tension fast. Have you tried it?
Seems like you have a good serve. Youre height helps you I suppose.
So what gut would you use as a cross of the ones sold in TW?
Let is know how it plays. Explosiv is supposed to be very powerful and soft for what I read.
Less, according to an expert on strings I consulted. This expert does not recommend multis as a cross, including Explosiv, but tahts his opinion.
Definitely Klip Legend. Don't go with the uncoated as it's harder to string and actually doesn't play as well. It's a good gut, but the durability is the worst of all of the mainstream guts. At the same time, it's still more than any multifilament or synthetic gut.
I have not. I have been considering the same comments, and think that I might try it out. I'm placing an order from the UK today, and their polyfibre prices are always the lowest. I can get a reel of it for $85 vs. $120 here. But my hesistation has as you said been the tension stability. Coming from WC strings, my expectations at a baseline level are higher than most, so anything even remotely poor I would definitely count as atrocious. Still, I might get a few sets just to have on hand. What gauge should I get? 1.15, 1.20, or 1.25? I never buy 1.30g poly strings. A huge waste IMO.
I prefer the Genesis. It's a lote more lively than Tornado, and I really don't find Tornado to give godly amounts of spin potential. Honestly, just looking at how strings wear, Scorpion eats through stringbeds the most, followed by B5E, then BHBR. As far as shot heaviness goes, BHBR definitely wins out, but it drops tension quickly. I'd recommend trying Typhoon actually with something like Gosen OGSM Super to tame the poly's liveliness (if using the grey color...which I don't).
I concur, but I'm also a playtester, so I get to see if my theories are right
I'm not that tall, only 5'10. It's the fact that my arms are so long. Honestly, I don't think I finished evolving. I naturally have a muscular build (my father has a 34-36" waist but needs custom pants because his quads and hamstrings are so large that they cannot fit into anything other than a 40" haha), and wear a 16.5 34/35 shirt. I have a 32" waist. In other words, I cannot buy any dress clothes off of the rack to fit me haha.
It was great for boxing when that was my primary sport as I had a tremendous reach and everyone hated my left hook. For tennis, not so good. It creates issues for my 1HBH since there your range is everything. The more variability you have (if you get your feet set but then have to adjust your arms constantly, ugh), the harder the shot is to master. As it is, I like hitting my 1HBH from just below my hip and generating the spin on the followthrough since I hit a bit flatter and get a lot more heaviness than starting as low to high as I do on my FH wing, so that extra leverage aids in that. Either way, all excuses to me are ways to improve. I don't ever care if I lose a match. I'm not playing for money, bragging rights mean nothing (except if it's against my girlfriend's parents when we play doubles against them ), so a loss is a chance to see what I can do to beat him/her next time. But that you for the compliment, nonetheless
Good way to see tennis. Be competitive but learn when you loose.
Should be lose, right, I get mixed uo with the lose and the loose. Language can be harder than hitting a backhand sometimes
So this is how you got over 1000 posts in 3 months.
Well youre last two posts were not very different.
A message board consists of illustrative posts that I and others may post and trivial ones like the ones that I and many others may post.
Liberty of expression my friend is a constitutional right.
Im overly uptight over language and spanish is my main language, not english. What can I say, you can never win here. If youre nice youre crticized and if youre rude also..
Have good news, Guiness records just called me.I won a milion bucks for breaking the record of more threads in three months. I knew something good was coming,
You're not representing Christians well by constantly berating people when they try to help, as I can give you a link of you being incredibly hypocritical.
It just doesn't benefit the people here to have 10 posts in each thread about your first post when you could just edit your first (yes you have enough posts to do that)
I'm sure this comment will be deleted, but you really need to realize that it's not helpful to have one person spend ten posts about something irrelevant to the subject.
Liberty and freedom comes with responsibilty, something which you clearly fail to understand. And that includes responsibilty towards others.
Message boards full of 'trivial', repetitve, tedious, pointless posts like yours just gum up the message boards for others, and waste people's time who had to trawl through your spam to try and get to the information which they originally sought.
Self awareness and intelligence clearly isn't one of your strong points.
What's the point of the ignore list, when You still keep quoting the guy ;-) Please don't make me read his posts.
Ahhh - the ignore function. I forgot about that, thanks for reminding me.
Just activated it, but this fool posts so much spam, there are still loads of "This message is hidden" messages all throughout this page. It's still going to waste mine and everyone's eye energy having to glance across it. Something is better than nothing I suppose.
Separate names with a comma.