PV Audio's Playtest Thread

Discussion in 'Strings' started by pvaudio, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. J_aces

    J_aces Semi-Pro

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    What does the OGSM Super do that the regular doesnt? Also do u have the grey that much more lively than blue?
     
  2. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    You call me a fool, who is insulting who?
     
  3. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Hey guys, please. You're all good contributors, but please take the fighting elsewhere :)
     
  4. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I'm also looking for a new string that you guys want me to test. Since I own so many, I likely have it and I really don't want to go in and edit out all of my business jargon from my string list just to post it here. With that said, the newest legitimage entrants (those I would string for others) are SPP Pure and Prince Recoil.
     
  5. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    The super is just a higher quality syn gut. It's more expensive, but it's like the spiral flex of Gosen's syn guts while the regular OGSM is just the normal pro supex syn gut. Hope that makes sense :)
     
  6. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Oh, and the grey isn't that much more powerful. We are talking poly after all :)
     
  7. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I think I might do Black Magic 17 vs. B5E. I'm curious to see if it plays better than Scorpion as I haven't tried it in a very long time and not at a reasonable tension (>57).
     
  8. jdunnie014159

    jdunnie014159 Rookie

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    PV--I hit for a few hours yesterday and have some questions for you. I had one Prestige Mid strung with ALU Power 17L mains/Global Gut crosses at 60/62, and the other Prestige w Silverstring 1.25/OGSM 16 white at 60/62. I know the tension is not advisable--my arm kills today but I love the control.

    Which is the more powerful main?

    Although the Lux/Gut setup gave me more spin, it delivered a lighter ball and I simply could not hit through the court. The SS setup played stiff but was solid from the baseline. Was that lack of power the result of me using cheap gut? How much do the crosses contribute to power in these hybrid setups?

    I know I could string 4 lbs lighter with SS/OGSM and be happy, but I'm interested in the science behind all this. Moreover, I'd like to have a setup that played like the SS/OGSM from the baseline while also playing like LUX/Gut setup on S&V points. Any insight is appreciated. From info gathered from this thread, I'm thinking a switch to OG 17 natural from 16 white while dropping 4 lbs of tension might be a solid move toward my previously stated goal. Let me know if you would tweak this in any way.
     
  9. Nojoke

    Nojoke Rookie

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    I'd be very interested in this comparison.
     
  10. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    Sorry.

    I will say I'm very interested in prince recoil. I haven't really found very many reviews, and it's kind of expensive. If you've tried it, what are your thoughts and if not, feel like doing something like b5e mains and recoil crosses?
     
  11. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    You will say Black Magic is softer but inferior in every way. :)
     
  12. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    The crosses only contribute 20-30%, but as any student can tell you, 20% difference means the difference between being average and failing :)

    My point is, I openly admit that ALU has a feel unlike any other. It's very, very unique and very powerful. It also gives a lot of spin, but almost always at the expense of your arm. You wasted your ALU using global gut. That stuff is more suitable for tying up a package for shipping than stringing in a tennis racquet.

    For your Silverstring setup, that sounds just about right. Drop the tension on the SS into the low 50s (your shots won't fly long, polyester just isn't made like that), and use 17g OGSM in natural. The white is stiffer feeling than the natural for some reason. I personally cannot stand it, but I love the natural. So my advice to you is to forget the ALU altogether as it's too expensive and doesn't last even a fraction as long as SS does. String the poly lower, and cross it with OGSM natural about 3-4 lbs higher than your mains tension. I think that'll work out great for you. :)
     
  13. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    PV, have you tried or plan to try Luxilon Savage?
     
  14. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    No sir, don't plan to either. The only non-big banger Lux string I carry is Adrenaline and only because a kid I string for plays with it. There hasn't been a single Lux string that I've ever liked, so I don't tend to bother. :)
     
  15. Up&comer

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    Have you played with recoil before at all?
     
  16. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    No sir. There was a great deal on the bay (sorry mikeler :D :D ), so I scooped it up. I've just wondered why it's so freaking expensive.
     
  17. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    Me too.

    So how about black5edge mains and recoil crosses?
     
  18. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    No worries, it is worth a demo at the price you paid. I only tried it as a cross and it was a little too stiff for me with poly mains. I doubt it is worth retail value.
     
  19. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    PV-
    I think you are planning to demo B5E with WC EXplosiv. Is it in the near future?

    What do you think of B5E full set in 40s tension?
     
  20. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    That should play nicely. I only played B5E full bed at 55lbs and it was great there, so I can only assume that it'll carry over to a 10lb drop.
     
  21. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Just for you guys, I'll do a primary test of Black Magic. That means the first frame I'll review is a full bed. That leaves BM mains for the other. Cross that you'd like to see, or stick with gut? :)
     
  22. Up&comer

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    I repeat.

    Recoil.
     
  23. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Finished stringing up BM full and BM/WT. Also, I timed myself and I'm rather pleased. Including all tieoffs, mountings, and the machine prestretch, I'm under 20 mins on my own frame (19:55). That's stringing 1.20mm gut crosses at the second slowest tensioning speed too. Translating that to a full bed of multi, and I think I could be near 17 or so. I know most of you could do faster than that in your sleep, but I can't push weave, so that just made my day :)
     
  24. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    :( I eventually decided for this round to simply do what I normally do, but to just report on both. I think I'll take specific requests from now on since I plan on having 3 B5E/gut frames at all times for matchplay, and one playtest frame. I just chose to do two Black Magic frames to compare the B5E and BM hybrids side by side. Next time, if you want that specific combination, you're first in line. :)
     
  25. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    pv audio,
    do you pull EVERY string and clamp or are you going two at a time?
     
  26. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    :cry:

    I guess that's ok....
     
  27. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Genesis Black Magic 17g

    Genesis Black Magic 17g

    [​IMG]

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    Stringing: This isn't too bad of a poly to string. The mains really aren't anything special. The only poly mains I've ever had trouble with were BHBR. Those kinked and coiled to the point of frustration. These didn't. Weaving the crosses here wasn't bad. I'd say above average. Without question Scorpion is the easiest poly to weave that I've found to date, but this is pretty limp. Didn't take me too long at all, no friction burn, no problems with knots and just a nice feeling poly in the hand. Strung at 51/51.

    Groundstrokes:
    Overall: /10

    Serves:
    Overall: /10

    Volleys:
    Overall: /10

    Durability:
    Overall: /10

    Thoughts to come...

    Overall: /10
     
  28. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Genesis Black Magic 17g / WhisperTouch

    Genesis Black Magic 17g / WhisperTouch

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Stringing: I covered the mains above, and I've talked about weaving this gut so many times. In case you missed a few posts above, I finally got myself under 20 minutes while weaving gut crosses! As I don't push or pull weave (modified sewing motion), I was pretty proud to see that I'd improved that much. Just proves that practice makes improvement, never perfection. :)

    Anyway, as I said, no issues here. Strung like all of my other hybrids. Strung at 51/53, 5% machine prestretch with knot setting for tieoffs.

    Groundstrokes:
    Overall: /10

    Serves:
    Overall: /10

    Volleys:
    Overall: /10

    Durability:
    Overall: /10

    Thoughts

    Overall: /10
     
  29. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Genesis Black Magic 17g

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Stringing: This isn't too bad of a poly to string. The mains really aren't anything special. The only poly mains I've ever had trouble with were BHBR. Those kinked and coiled to the point of frustration. These didn't. Weaving the crosses here wasn't bad. I'd say above average. Without question Scorpion is the easiest poly to weave that I've found to date, but this is pretty limp. Didn't take me too long at all, no friction burn, no problems with knots and just a nice feeling poly in the hand. Strung at 51/51.

    Groundstrokes:
    Overall: /10

    Serves: I am impressed. The stringbed provides quite a lot of pop. As far as polys go, it is I'd say above average on power. Spin potential, however, is extraordinary. It's not in the league of B5E or BHBR, but this stuff can create some serious action on the ball. Extremely comfortable as well, so I'm interested to see what it feels like under a complete test. Either way, I decided to do videos of each. Posted below is the serving video for the full bed:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvnoCTvpq9U
    Overall: 9.5/10

    Volleys:
    Overall: /10

    Durability:
    Overall: /10

    Thoughts to come...

    Overall: /10
     
  30. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Genesis Black Magic 17g / WhisperTouch

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Stringing: I covered the mains above, and I've talked about weaving this gut so many times. In case you missed a few posts above, I finally got myself under 20 minutes while weaving gut crosses! As I don't push or pull weave (modified sewing motion), I was pretty proud to see that I'd improved that much. Just proves that practice makes improvement, never perfection. :)

    Anyway, as I said, no issues here. Strung like all of my other hybrids. Strung at 51/53, 5% machine prestretch with knot setting for tieoffs.

    Groundstrokes:
    Overall: /10

    Serves: Much like the full bed, but quite a bit livelier. What you lose in spin, you definitely gain in power. For this reason, I ended up having to put even more spin than normal on my serves just to keep them in the box. It's not as powerful as the Turbotwist setup, but the difference between this and the full bed is quite remarkable. As far as serving goes, this one loses to the full bed of the black stuff. Video for this as well:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvncTk2A2LA
    Overall: 9/10

    Volleys:
    Overall: /10

    Durability:
    Overall: /10

    Thoughts

    Overall: /10
     
  31. Agent Orynge

    Agent Orynge Professional

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    Dude, sweet stapler. I'm a Swingline guy myself.

    What was I supposed to be looking at again?
     
  32. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Thank you for that useless addition.
     
  33. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    I hate to go off topic, but would you happen to be at the home of the boilermakers?
     
  34. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Indeed I would :)
     
  35. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    I used to live up in Lafayette before I moved. Those courts look familiar though. I might have played on them before. It's that poster in the second vid that reminded me.
     
  36. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Yep yep, all of my videos are at the school's tennis center. Facility is suuuuuuuuuuuper nice, courts are much nicer than what I play on back home (I say that like it's far, I'm from Indianapolis haha).
     
  37. Up&comer

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    Cool. Thanks for all the reviews btw.
     
  38. Agent Orynge

    Agent Orynge Professional

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    Someone misplaced their sense of humor today. :(
     
  39. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    It's behind the stapler ;)
     
  40. Agent Orynge

    Agent Orynge Professional

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    I think I see it!
     
  41. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Genesis Black Magic 17g

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Stringing: This isn't too bad of a poly to string. The mains really aren't anything special. The only poly mains I've ever had trouble with were BHBR. Those kinked and coiled to the point of frustration. These didn't. Weaving the crosses here wasn't bad. I'd say above average. Without question Scorpion is the easiest poly to weave that I've found to date, but this is pretty limp. Didn't take me too long at all, no friction burn, no problems with knots and just a nice feeling poly in the hand. Strung at 51/51.

    Groundstrokes: Man, this stuff has two qualities: power and softness. There is a tremendous amount of pop off of both wings, but it's disappointing because the stringbed is so soft. It's actually soft to the point of being mushy. The reason that's a problem is because you can't really tell how hard you're hitting the ball since the string absorbs just about every clue as to how much pace is there. Approach shots were troublesome, and I could not swing out with confidence on either wing because there just wasn't enough feedback. I had to really make sure I was using very soft hands otherwise the ball would easily fly long. Slices worked the same way. I could slice without fear of hitting out, but it wouldn't necessarily have the height or trajectory that I wanted. So all in all, Scorpion is a soft poly but is very responsive. This is just a soft poly.
    Overall: 7.5/10

    Serves: I am impressed. The stringbed provides quite a lot of pop. As far as polys go, it is I'd say above average on power. Spin potential, however, is extraordinary. It's not in the league of B5E or BHBR, but this stuff can create some serious action on the ball. Extremely comfortable as well, so I'm interested to see what it feels like under a complete test. Either way, I decided to do videos of each. Posted below is the serving video for the full bed:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvnoCTvpq9U
    Overall: 9.5/10

    Volleys: Much in the same vein as the groundstrokes, being at the net with this stuff means you better win the point with a single volley. The strings are very soft, but that does not equate to feel like it does with natural gut.
    Overall: 8/10

    Durability: Nothing broken here, but the poly has begun to notch. That's a first (aside from Hexablade which is designed to do that quickly) in this thread, so I'm assuming that durability will be the lowest we've seen yet. As far as string movement, straight as a ruler.
    Overall: 8/10

    This is a good poly overall. Honestly though, it isn't my cup of tea. I like soft strings, but I do require feedback. This just doesn't have it. Although I haven't formally playtested it, Alien Black Diamond has the same qualities as this, but it's also responsive. This is just incredibly soft, so if you have arm problems, then maybe it's for you. It does create spin, but it's just moderate on that front. So what we're left with is a well priced, extremely soft poly.

    Overall: 8.25/10
     
  42. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I felt the same way about BM in my hybrid. Now you have me curious about that Alien string.
     
  43. joshb

    joshb New User

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    Hi PV-

    Great thread, lots of good info here....

    I've just switched to a B5E/WT combo in a PB10 MP, strung at 53/55. I was previously playing Scorp/Legend in a PDRGT. I like the current B5E hybrid, but I'm finding too much power/springiness with it and am looking for recommendations.

    I have pretty full strokes with quite a bit of topspin on my forehand side and a bit less on the backhand side, serve is a strong point, play an all-court ish game. I'm ok going a bit stiffer than my current setup because with the PB, it should still be way more comfortable than the PDRGT was (which was starting to give me elbow pain).

    I'm thinking of a few possibilities, input is appreciated:
    -Keep current setup, change tension to 52/56
    -Full bed B5E or Cyclone....though I'm afraid to loose the touch from the gut
    -Cyclone as a hybrid with gut cross


    Ideas?
     
  44. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    If you like the feel, up the tension. Otherwise I would try full black5edge.
     
  45. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Genesis Black Magic 17g / WhisperTouch

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Stringing: I covered the mains above, and I've talked about weaving this gut so many times. In case you missed a few posts above, I finally got myself under 20 minutes while weaving gut crosses! As I don't push or pull weave (modified sewing motion), I was pretty proud to see that I'd improved that much. Just proves that practice makes improvement, never perfection. :)

    Anyway, as I said, no issues here. Strung like all of my other hybrids. Strung at 51/53, 5% machine prestretch with knot setting for tieoffs.

    Groundstrokes: It's interesting what the WhisperTouch does. When I played with the full bed of Black Magic, there was very little feel because the stringbed was mushy soft. Using gut crosses actually makes the stringbed LESS soft, and makes it feel a bit stiffer. The result is an enormous increase in feel without increasing power. In fact, I'd venture to say that BM needs to be in a hybrid to get the most out of it. Since it isn't a spin poly, you can't really run home based on the spin generated by it. Instead, you'd most likely use this setup because of its comfort factor. When crossed with the gut, it retains its comfort level but the playability is significantly increased by the jump in feedback. All strokes were improved in this regard. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that even a cheap synthetic cross would increase the value of this already great value poly even more. Rare for poly strings, but for this one, it's the softness that needs to be tamed.
    Overall: 9/10

    Serves: Much like the full bed, but quite a bit livelier. What you lose in spin, you definitely gain in power. For this reason, I ended up having to put even more spin than normal on my serves just to keep them in the box. It's not as powerful as the Turbotwist setup, but the difference between this and the full bed is quite remarkable. As far as serving goes, this one loses to the full bed of the black stuff. Video for this as well:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvncTk2A2LA
    Overall: 9/10

    Volleys: As stated in the groundstrokes section, all shots are improved by the cross string. The increased feel at the net is greatly appreciated as the muteness of the full poly pretty much meant that you were at the mercy of your hand-eye coordination to set up your racquet face properly. Beyond that, what the volley did was up to the graces of physics. Here, however, you can create good touch shots. While not exemplary like one of my first reviews, Mosquito Bite/SNGPS, it is quite nice nonetheless.
    Overall: 8.5/10

    Durability: The gut has extended the life of the poly as is common for gut hybrids. I have not broken it yet, but the gut also has not caused the notching seen in the full bed. The string is so soft that in the full bed, notching occured simply during the rest period after stringing. Although this could be due to stringer error, it has never happened with any other poly that I've strung. So far, the poly has died, but the strings continue on.
    Overall: 9/10

    Although it is my go-to, I cannot say for sure that the increased performance is due to the cross being gut, or for the poly simply being crossed. Either way, the gut has allowed the poly to last beyond its death as is usual, and conversely, unusual for any other cross string. As I've said before, this is why natural gut crosses are worth the price (assuming you use a value gut). Since the performance of the gut doesn't decrease until breakage, you get much more out of the stringbed than you would otherwise. When at its end, the performance is obviously not as good as a fresh bed, but it is still incredibly playable. I've never found that with synthetic crosses and it's why I continue to use and advocate gut crosses.
    Overall: 8.75/10
     
  46. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Up the tension of the mains to 55, and the crosses to 58. WhisperTouch isn't a high-powered gut, so stringing it low doesn't really affect much. B5E, however, is tension specific. I would try that, and if that doesn't work, then try out the full bed. Full B5E, although not formally reviewed, is NOT my favorite full poly bed that I've used. The hybrid version, however, is my favorite stringbed overall.
     
  47. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I'm continuing to test the BM17 full bed. After sitting in my bag for a while after not that many hits, the feel has changed completely. It's playing like what Hyperion should have been: soft, but lively. We'll see how it ends up. :)
     
  48. Readers

    Readers Semi-Pro

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    PV, have you tried WT on a full bed? I had my strung full bed ay 53 one a consistent pull(Gama 8800). I am 5 hours in so far and string already start to fray at multiple location. My other racquet which has Xcel power 17 at 58, which has about 8-9 hours on it witj no sign of fraying at all.

    WT does play better than Xcel power (less power, more control and spin), but the durability worries me (worse than a multi?), I've never had a string show this much fraying in just 5 hours. I hit fairly flat and most string last a long time for me.

    I would also like to ask how long does it takes from fray to snap, comparing to from new to start fray?(In full bed or hybrid) Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2011
  49. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Honestly, quite a long time. The string begins to fray once the coating wears off. However, it'll likely be weeks before it actually snaps due to shearing. Gut is much stronger than multis, so the fraying you see isn't a sign that the gut is on its way out like it is with many multifilaments. Nothing to worry about at all. :)
     
  50. Readers

    Readers Semi-Pro

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    Cool, thanks for let me know. :)

    I did play with other gut before, but none frayed this early, but good to know the this gut will still last me a good while. Guess the coating is not at good as say, VS, which did not really fray until 10+ hour for me. Again it's only 63% of the price.:)
     

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