PV Audio's Playtest Thread

Discussion in 'Strings' started by pvaudio, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I agree entirely, the spin production is almost comical, coupled with how ferociously the ball kicks up off the court.
     
  2. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    What kind of temperature were you playing in? I've found that once the temps get to 90 degrees or higher the ball seems very juiced.
     
  3. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Nope, played indoors. About 80 degrees, rather humid I'd reckon.
     
  4. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    ^ could it be the racquet change ? (100 vs 200)
     
  5. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    That humidity should slow the balls down. Probably just the string setup then.
     
  6. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Nope because I've already playtested setups with the new racquet. It feels like there is simply extra power outside of me. Even little flick shots just go far longer than expected, and rally balls all hug the baseline. It feels as though the strings are just too loose, but it honestly could just be the balls.
     
  7. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Last time I used Slazy balls they were absolute missles compared to anything I've played, even the Prince tour balls which are quite lively.
     
  8. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I used them one time on hard courts and did not notice that they were that different from the other brands. I think I remember them fuzzing up too much for my liking. Those Prince Tour balls in this heat really jump!
     
  9. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    How about stability, plow-through, spin generation, control, serving, maneuverability, volleying, precision, feel?
     
  10. finalfantasy7

    finalfantasy7 Semi-Pro

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    didn't u make a thread saying spin strings are overrated? LOL, just asking.

    are those scavenger championship balls in a yellow tube? if they I've found that they Re the best balls I've played with, hit every category brilliantly.

    also have you played with klip armour pro natural gut
     
  11. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Only? :p

    +10char
     
  12. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    WT Pro / MSV Co Focus 1.23 Midnight Blue

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Stringing: As I hinted at above, the Co Focus is extraordinarily smooth and soft. While many polys have these attributes, rarely does it translate to stringing. Here, however, it does. This is definitely one of the easiest polys to weave that I've ever used, this thread both included and aside. No friction burn against the gut either, and super easy to tie off. Wonderful. Strung at 49/47.

    Groundstrokes: This truly is a magnificent setup from the baseline. There is access to excellent control and power off of both wings. That coupled with the excellent feel that gut provides, and you definitely have the confidence to swing out. This setup, however, shines more brightly than anything tested thus far in one area: spin production. A member here stated that this provides effortless access to spin. I do not agree with this at all, because if you do not employ a proper stroke, high RHS will end up taking the ball long. However, he also said that his wife used it and her shots were disrupting her opponent's rhythm because they were spinning like they hadn't before. This, however, I do agree with. As I said in an above post, the spin that this setup produces is simply comical. Honestly, just try it for this alone because you will not believe me when I say that the ball actually looks different in the air than with your prior string setup. I've played with this for sufficient time now against the same opponent, and still when I take an aggressive cut at the ball and put it deep in the court, his timing is significantly off (late to the point of shanking on the throat at times). The reason for this is that unlike even with my B5E/WT Pro stringbeds, the pace of the ball once it bounces is retained to a sensational degree. Shots that would normally sit up slightly to allow a nice smooth stroke from across the net yields hurried rhythm and erratic timing.

    As you likely know, I don't put much weight on spin production. I do employ a lot of topspin and slices, and it's necessary for me to serve, but I don't emphasize it when selecting a string. Here, however, I do not see how more is possible with my current skill level. The spin isn't like Spiky Shark or Blue Gear where the ball sits up a lot and just spins. This is spin like BHBR or Tour Bite in that the balls are simply heavy, heavier and heaviest. While it's not like you won't miss, this actually gives you the confidence to try angles that you otherwise would not both risking. Not all go in, and many are out, but I ended up trying over and over again to find the right combination of RHS and forward movement to get it right. When it all comes together, you actually end up having more fun on the court. Due to this last sentence, this receives the highest rating in this entire thread.
    Overall: 10/10

    Serves: Much the same as the groundstrokes. For anyone who uses spin regularly on their serve, then you will be grinning. For anyone who typically hits flat, you'll still be impressed although that's not the main attraction here. As you can likely see in the video in the first post (this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh3zvsvGGDc and more importantly, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvncTk2A2LA&feature=related ), my serve isn't exactly super fast. It does, however, tend to get stuck in the net rather often and it's not because of the speed. Rather, I employ a large amount of spin on every serve to increase accuracy and percentage, and this likes to dig into the net a lot. With my motion and the power and spin produced by these strings, I have never served better or with more confidence.
    Overall: 10/10

    Volleys: Volleying with WT Pro/Co Focus is much like using any natural gut mains setup. Obviously you get good feel from the gut which lets you place the ball how you want it, but do be careful. Strung at this tension, power is much higher than you would expect even for the lightest of touch shots. THe first few times you try to hit such a shot, you'll be disappointed. All this means, however, is that you get to expend less energy to hit the same shot with different strings. This alone doesn't make your shots better, but it does improve your hands. You quickly learn that you really need to have control over the racquet, because once you do, no volley is difficult. Overheads, yeah. No need to discuss aside from the glorious sound that is made.
    Overall: 9.5/10

    Durability: Here's the surprise of the review: this is more durable than poly mains and the same gut in the crosses. It does make sense, however, but the wear pattern you see on the gut is more akin to a fullbed of multifilament like NRG2 or X-1. The gut frays all around the hitting area and is untouched outside of it. Unlike with poly mains which shred the gut everywhere as they displace, the gut is definitely lasting longer and the poly is not near death. Since gut, unlike poly, plays about the same until it breaks, this makes this hybrid incredibly cost effective. There was no obscene tension loss either, and the break-in period was easily under an hour.
    Overall: 9.5/10

    Some people accuse me of hyperbole in my reviews. I contest that as I simply write how I am in person. I'm a fairly loud guy who likes to put down exactly what I'm thinking rather than what other people may want to hear. It's with that said that I put my full backing into this review. I honestly did not ever expect to find something better than B5E/WT. Even the WT/B5E hybrid that I re-did after the first broke was not much better than the same poly in the mains. Here though, the MSV has the absolute perfect feel to get the most out of this frame and the gut is fabulous as usual. COnsidering that the hybrid will cost you under 20 bucks a frame and will last about twice as long as any poly bed, and you sure do have a winner. I don't put a lot of weight on spin production, but that's a great feature of this hybrid. More than that, you get from the gut great feel and power, and yet the poly damps it to yield excellent control and durability. Fantastic, and there's no other words for it.


    Overall: 10/10
     
  13. Avadia

    Avadia Rookie

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    Great review, PV. I can't wait to try this setup in my AG 4D200 Tour. It sounds exactly like what I am looking for. Right now, I am experimenting with a full bed of BHBR at low tension (40 lbs). It gives nice pop and lots of power on flat serves and groundies, as well as great spin production. But it is a little squirrely for volleys and touch shots and the ball can fly on you a bit. I do love the feel and the combination of power, spin and control from a good gut/poly hybrid.
     
  14. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    I wonder if picking a different color like white would change the characteristics of the string since Cofocus appears to come in many colors.

    Pvaudio - Since you have tried so many strings, how would this compare to WC Scorpion? I love Scorpion but notice in colder temps, the string was rather stiff.
     
  15. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Avadia, BHBR is a sensational string. You do, however, owe it to yourself to try this out. It's fantastic!

    Para, unlike with my other tests, I did not try the Co Focus in a full bed since I was specifically not testing the poly but rather the hybrid here. With that said, this gut hybrid is superior to any that I've ever played, including gut/Scorpion. I never thought I would say it, but it simply just feels like a higher quality stringbed.

    As for the colors, I am not sure. I don't have (as far as I know) any polys aside from MSV Hex and WC Mosquito Bite that come in numerous colors. Both of those mentioned, however, play rather similarly so I can't relate there. The only two examples that I own which do come in different colors and DO play differently are Genesis SpinX and Typhoon. Those colors do play quite differently, it has to be said. As multis and syn guts are more finicky as it is, color choice there is rather important. Here though, I'm not sure.
     
  16. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    PV - I only use VS gut and looking for the ideal cross so how does Scorpion compare to Cofocus in terms of power, spin, comfort, and tension stability?
     
  17. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    ^ pvaudio - another great write up.
     
  18. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    I've never been a big gut mains poly cross fan, but the way you praise this setup I might have to try it.
     
  19. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    How is the softness compared to B5E?
     
  20. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Up&comer, I used to play gut mains, but eventually switched because I liked the feel of poly mains instead. This, however, is quite excellent.

    B5E is actually a bit stiffer than the Co Focus, but either way it doesn't matter when gut is in the mains. :)
     
  21. OldButGame

    OldButGame Hall of Fame

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    Good question,(something i've wondered too) and answer.
    When You think about it,..color makes a difference amongst OGs,...stands to reason color could make a difference in strings,..Ya know??:-?
     
  22. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Ah and I looked it up, and the poster who enlightened me was TimothyO :)
     
  23. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    colour is basically a chemical element that will change the chemical composition of the string itself depending on the colour - therefore it will play different. sometimes the difference will be easily noticeable, sometimes it will be small, but nevertheless a white string and a black string (or whatever colour you choose) will not be the same even if they are made by teh same manufacturer!
     
  24. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Shoot, why did I buy the reel of B5E! OK, considering we both liked similar setups and now you like this one better, I'll have to give it a shot. Maybe I'll try it in the 18g.
     
  25. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    doubt it's better than B5E when using it in the mains.
     
  26. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Nice review on the MSV.

    I had used a similar setup a year ago, BDE gut main/MSV hex cross, and recall very similar playability. Spin became too big though, that my flat-directional control suffered a bit, as I prefer to mix spin, flat, slice, etc. Gut/MSV seemed to perform better for an all spin game.

    btw, my scorpion main/gut cross trial didn't bode as well as I hoped. Back to full polystar for me, it's too inexpensive to pass up for this self-stringer, I've realized having fresh strings every few matches plays more reliable than even a gut hybrid over a longer timeline. Somehow full turbo is giving better all-court feel than many poly/gut setups I've tried, including scorpion. It also takes to both flat and spin shots quite well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2011
  27. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    B5E is still one of the best strings so I am pretty sure you won't have issue getting rid of it if needed. I am also curious about Cofocus but only in 17 guage. 18 gauge is too springy based on my past experience with X1 and Alpha Gut.

    I am also down to a few more strings between finalizing the VS main/copoly string setup, SPPP, PL2, and Cofocus are the last 3 to try for me and I am done until the next great new string thread comes out:).
     
  28. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    Another awesome review, pvaudio! Right now I'm testing--all full bed--B5E, MB, and SS and am about to try Scorpion (my biggest hope, as I understand it is more for flat hitters). I go for my shots a lot, not just redirect them as some flatter hitters do (come to think of it, I do use okay spin, but my ball trajectory is lower). What I'm getting at is do you think I'd benefit from Cofocus? A 10/10 on one of your reviews is hard to pass up!
     
  29. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    The great thing with B5E is I know it does not jinx my elbow. Most of the other polys seem to aggravate it.
     
  30. Torres

    Torres Banned

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  31. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    mikeler, the poly by itself is not as good as B5E by itself. In the hybrid, however, I feel that it's superior. This isn't anything surprising or strange though as both Scorpion and Silverstring dominate in a poly or poly mains setup, but I prefer Genesis SpinX to both in a gut mains hybrid.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2011
  32. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    PV,

    Does B5E allow more spin than Genesis SpinX?

    Thanks
     
  33. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    As a poly, yes. In the gut mains hybrid, nope.
     
  34. Carlos_Spicyweiner

    Carlos_Spicyweiner New User

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    I have been using a poly(main)/multi(cross) setup for awhile now and have decided to try a gut setup. I was wondering the difference between putting the gut in the mains rather than crosses. Does one setup allow the gut to last longer? I assume you get more bite on the ball with gut in the mains but not sure. Any opinions are much appreciated.
     
  35. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Yep, same here.

    His posts led me to try it.... So I'm half-tempted to start calling him The Co-Focus Godfather. :)
     
  36. Rogael Naderer

    Rogael Naderer Semi-Pro

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    I just want to thanks both Mikeler and PV these threads are the cat's whiskers.
     
  37. Mig1NC

    Mig1NC Professional

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    So in a gut mains / poly crosses hybrid you prefer SpinX? Which color and guage?

    I saw red 17 mentioned in this thread earlier... Bit after 1100 posts I kind of stopped reading :???:

    Great thread, BTW!
     
  38. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Never heard that expression but you are welcome. I think I'm done testing strings so we will all have to lean on PV now.
     
  39. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Heh, take my opinions with as much salt as you can get. I'm only one guy! :)
     
  40. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    But you're one guy with great play tests and reviews!
     
  41. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    I think the expression is "the cat's meow."
     
  42. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    Dont know if youve tried it but what about Whisper Touch mains and Mosquito Bite crosses? Sounds interesting. MB should hold tension well as all Weiss cannon polys do.
     
  43. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    It is one of the best spin setups I've tried.
    It's also softer than the time I strung BDE nat gut/MSV co-focus hex 1.18.
    And the MB stayed softer and playable for longer than MSV. (not to mention the BDE gut is softer than the Pacific gut I used with MB).

    Only issue is MB is very powerful. I know MSV is atop the low-friction list, but I doubt the extra 0.03 (or whatever it was) coefficient of friction on MB will account for less spin (in any noticeable way), since we all mostly are in agreement that technique accounts for over 90% of one's ability to impart spin anyhow. I've tried at least 5 different combos of gut main/poly cross, and Gut/MB was by far the softest, longest playable setup. I found all of them to impart spin similarly, although even so, MB cross was right there with MSV cross.

    So, IME, the MB is a good one because it has better tension retention and comfort than MSV. If you can manage its power, it's a winner for crosses to gut mains, and worth a shot if you have some on hand. I'm tempted to try Polystar Energy as a cross just because it's so greasy and slick for a poly. It may be a launcher (due to massive tension loss compared to most poly, esp WC poly), but I can't imagine a slicker poly than Energy, for someone seeking pure spin/power/comfort.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2011
  44. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    How does MB compare to WC Scoprion or SPPP as a cross? I wonder if this has to do with MB being a 18 gauge string as well. I wonder if Scorpion was offered in 18 gauge whether that would be better.
     
  45. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    I've only tried Scorpion in full bed and as main to gut x. I've not tried SPPP, only their tornado and hyperion in full beds.

    I would extrapolate those experiences to guess that Scorpion will be the stiffest of the three, great for directional control, and SPPP would hold tension best of all as a poly cross, albeit less powered than MB.

    I have noticed thinner crosses do well to enhance playability in a stringbed, and is why I always come back to 1.20 and thinner polys to accompany my guts.

    I'm not sure if I answered that well though, since I've not used those strings as crosses...
     
  46. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Hey PV.

    Did you ever try the Unifibre? Curious what you thought of that rope... :)
     
  47. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Honestly nope, it's still sitting there untouched. Been having too much fun!
     
  48. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    What do you think of Tonic gut 15 gauge mains and Mosquito Bite crosses? Would it be soft considering its a thick gauge in the mains?
     
  49. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    ^^ soft for sure. The BDE I used to use was 15L and was super soft, and still was easy to impart spin in an 18x20 with the 1.18 MSV crosses.

    Even the stiffest & thickest guts are going to be soft in comparison to most (if not all) other string types. Tonic 15/MB sounds like a killer setup with great longevity.
     
  50. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    I would consider this setup. Would MB be softer than Turbo twist as a cross?
     

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