PV Audio's Playtest Thread

Discussion in 'Strings' started by pvaudio, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    pv......love the reviews.

    I just demoed Pacific Classic Gut with B5E crosses, and loved it.

    Then I tried the same mains with Co-Focus crosses and wow, REALLY loved that. In the midst of drilling went back to try the B5E and now in comparison it felt dead.

    the gut mains/co-focus crosses is so far the best combo I've yet found. Great spin, very good control, controllable power, excellent touch, and I LOVE the way it feels, and especially how it sounds. Just terrific in my Volkl V1 Classic MP.

    Haven't tried Scorpion, but I love the feel of the co-focus. Wow, what a great combo.

    Note: as a reference, I strung it at 60/56 on a Neos 1000, double pulling each main and cross per Irvin's video/suggestion for more replicating the results from a constant pull machine.
     
  2. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    Maybe Classic Touch/Scorpion is the answer! I feel you though; I too am having a terrible time picking between these German polys.
     
  3. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    A local guy here actually bought a racquet from a TTW member, and it just so happens that he contacted me for stringing. Guy knew his stuff: wanted to make sure I knew what I was doing. Racquet is a Wilson K90. Strings are WhisperTouch Pro / CoFocus at 52/49. His thoughts after using it:
     
  4. levy1

    levy1 Hall of Fame

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    Need help with PMaxx setup

    Pmaxx wisper touch 1.20 is 50-60lbs recommended.
    Pmaxx Light touch 1.20 is 25-50lbs recommended
    racket A Pmaxx LT mains MSV Hex Cross 48/45
    racket B Pmaxx Wt mains WC Scorpion Cross 50/47

    Racket A is the best and I can do no wrong. Excellent power, control and spin not to mention feel. Racket B I hit long often, feels harsh and I do not have the control I have with A.

    Can anyone suggest why I like B over A? Is it the Pmaxx wisper touch or the Light touch.

    The above rackets are 50-62 tension.
    I will have a new racket tomorrow. Tension is 52-68. I am thinking of trying 50/47. with Scorpion crosses. Should I use the LT or WT.
     
  5. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I've flopped back, the WT just feels more lively. The dwell time of the LT is likely what you're noticing, but it's just not the same. the LT racquet will give you more margin of error, but it won't give even remotely close responsiveness. That's why I switched back to WT/CoFocus. After the LT/Scorpion settled, it was just too mushy and felt like a pusher's setup.
     
  6. levy1

    levy1 Hall of Fame

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    OK but can I use the WT at low tensions say at 47 or 50? I haven't tried the Co Focus but I will order some.
     
  7. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    That should be fine with the WT. I use it at 54 and may drop a couple pounds.
     
  8. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    PV, how much affect does switching to livelier gut mains have compared to switching to livelier poly crosses?
     
  9. levy1

    levy1 Hall of Fame

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    PV please answer this for me. Thanks

    PV please answer this for me. Thanks
     
  10. levy1

    levy1 Hall of Fame

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    Co focus on the way and I am ordering some more WT now. My rackets are really dialed in!
     
  11. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Yeah, you can. I've used WT in the high 40s no problem. My standard now is WT mains at 52.
     
  12. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    The liveliness of the gut is a huge factor, but the poly is also equally huge. Let's take three smooth polys of roughly the same gauge: WC Scorpion, WC Silverstring and MSV CoFocus. The gut mains the same, the MSV cross racquet is going to feel like a cannon compared to the Silverstring. That isn't to say that the MSV has poor control. It's exactly the reason why I love natural gut crosses: it lets you fine tune and get the most out of your mains. Poly crosses let you fine tune and get the most out of your gut. YOu basically get all the standard benefits of gut, but then can make it softer, more powerful, more spinny, more control, crisper, etc.
     
  13. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    I think I'm going to give this whisper touch/co-focus stuff a try to see what the hooo-har is all about.

    Unfortunately, I don't have either of those strings lying around...though I can probably get some Co-Focus off the Bay.

    Of the gut, I do have:-

    1. Klip Legend 1.25
    2. Performaxx Touch 17
    3. VS 16

    Which of those would you recommend with Co-Focus in a 98/18x20 (Youtek Prestige MP) and a 95/18x20 (BLX 6.1)?

    Is there another poly cross that you would recommend if I can't get hold of Co-Focus. I have a whole load ranging from WC, Tourna, Polyfibre, Lux etc. Is MSV Focus Hex any good? I have some of that lying around, though of course, its a shaped string.

    Have to say though I'm still a bit confused by your reviews. In the WT/Scorpion review you say that you were underwelmed and disappointed with the gut mains, but in the WT/Co-Focus review, you rate everything off the scale. Am I missing something?
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2011
  14. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    if you can order from TW, they have it.
     
  15. levy1

    levy1 Hall of Fame

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    Thanks, I tried to order 2 sets of WT but they only had one. Cant wait to try the new setup with co focus.
     
  16. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    Thanks, PV. Hmm, I have been using Scorp crosses and am now trying Storm Metal crosses at the same tension and with the same gut (WT). The Metal crosses actually feel pretty similar, but maybe a bit softer (it's hard to tell since I didn't try them head to head). I like the control I'm getting, but it still feels kind of stiff to me sometimes and underpowered for some reason. Any predictions on how WT/Scorp, WT/Co-focus, Classic Touch/Scorp, and Classic Touch/Co-focus would compare?
     
  17. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    No, the poor Scorpion hybrid was with LT strung at too high a tension. The contest then became LT/Scorpion vs. WT/CoFocus. Switching them around makes both worse: CoFocus is just too lively to be used around 40lbs and WT/Scorpion isn't crisp enough.
     
  18. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    I didn't feel like going to club tonight, the weather stinks, and I have a bit of sore thought. Anyway I was reading your thread and I was interested in the whisper touch and thunderstring review. Those sound like some pretty good traits to me. I really enjoy the current combo that you strung up, but sometimes when my footwork is not all the way there, the ball goes a bit long. Is thunderstring a multi or a poly, and would you recommend the whisper touch and thunderstring setup for someone like me? We have hit a couple of times, so you kind of know how I play, but I really like to play from the back of the baseline. I would consider myself more of a counterpuncher than a pusher. What do you think?

    PS The current setup is still working pretty nice. The poly went dead a while ago, but it is still holding tension fairly well. The gut is shredded, but still holding up. When the footwork is on, I hit such a nice sounding ball. The groundstrokes feel so dominant. If I stay with this setup in the future, I think I might have it strung tighter, to compensate for how powerful the gut is.

    thanks
     
  19. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    No, definitely would not recommend. You know how to make shots, big shot. This is just for the player content with percentage tennis. The guy who doesn't get excited when they hit a great winner or an ace. It's for that sort of person because even when you hit the ball which would otherwise have been a winner because it goes right where you wanted it to and when the other player is in the perfectly wrong position, they still can get to it because there's no weight to it. It's just like feeding balls to different parts of the court. Yeah, you can have superb accuracy, but you're just waiting for someone else's mistake and ONLY that. Think about the guys you probably played in the first to second rounds in tourneys as a junior, the guy who just irritates everyone because he's quick, and puts the ball back where you don't want it, but makes you lose the point instead of him win it? Yeah, he'd love it.
     
  20. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    I hated those kids
     
  21. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Yeah man, yeah. But you're a Floridian. Florida and Cali junior tourneys aren't like playing as a junior how I did in Indiana. You had competition, and a damn lot of it all of the time. 95% of our tourneys were those kids haha
     
  22. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    I am a mix acutely, I was born in California. Never played tennis there, but spent a little bit of time there. In Florida though, I play mostly on clay. Clay is great, because you can really move on it, but playing a pusher on clay is not a lot of fun, it is a lot harder to hit through players, so you have to wait for your shot before you pull the trigger. On hard court, most of the good guys on the club team a pulling the trigger in like two shots. There is a big difference in styles of play.
     
  23. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I rarely played pushers in Florida juniors. Most of those kids got their kicks blasting me off the court.
     
  24. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    Did you ever try it at a higher tension?
     
  25. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    And any thoughts on my earlier questions? Thanks!
     
  26. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    Haha. You get more satisfaction when you just overpower someone completely.
     
  27. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Mr. PV,

    Alas, the time has come to try the gut you sent me earlier in the year. I plan to put it in the crosses with B5E mains. If I use 52/56 for my B5E/Thunder Blast tension, what would you recommend for B5E/gut. You sent me a pack of Performaxx and Unifibre. Thanks!
     
  28. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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  29. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Just strung up a weighted up Prestige MP (stock 337g + 3g handle + 4g hoop, 98/18x20) with HT1.20/Co-Focus17 at 53/50lbs CP. I'm starting to think that it might be too low a tension for the racquet, but its too late now. The gut was pre-stretched by hand rather than using the electronic pre-stretch function on the machine. Normally I play with poly at 52-54lbs, typically Weiscannon Scorpion, B5E or BHBR.

    Will see what its like over the next couple of weeks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2011
  30. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    What is HT 1.20?
     
  31. davedomart

    davedomart Semi-Pro

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    High Tension something? Performaxx?
     
  32. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    ^ Yes. Performaxx WhisperTouch HighTension 17L 1.20 Natural Gut. It has the following desciption on the seller's website:

    PERFORMAXX High Tension 1.20mm (also available in 1.27mm & 1.32mm)
    Gauge:1.20mm Length: 2x20 ft Recommended tension range: 45 - 60 lbs
    For very high power players as full sets or hybrids (excellent with poly).

    Normal Internet pricing $39.95

    Our premium Natural Gut string is designed specifically for players with a "fast swing and high racket head velocityā€¯ game requiring high string tensions. A power and control balanced string designed for power players and balances control and power making programming difficult shots easy while providing the feel and great shock absorption required to minimize stress and strain on your body. Balanced for full court play for power players. You will be surprised to find that H-T can be strung at significantly lower tensions for better feel and durability while maintaining outstanding control and exceptional comfort. Great power, control, feel and comfort.


    Not sure if its the same thing that PVA uses (probably not) as there's another version described simply as Whispertouch 1.20mm with the (different) description below. I chose the HT in preference over the normal string because I don't really like the idea of having a very soft string for the mains, and natural gut at 1.20mm is very thin for a main string, so I plumped for what might be a stiffer version of that that natural gut string without changing the gauge or the make.

    PERFORMAXX WhisperTouch Natural Gut

    Gauge:1.20mm Length: 40 ft Recommended tension range: 45 - 55 lbs
    Originally targeted toward light hitting players with a "touch and feel" game, it has been adopted by a wide range of players as full sets or hybrids (excellent with poly).
    Normal Internet pricing $39.95

    This traditional premium firm Natural Gut string is designed specifically for players with a more powerful game requiring the feel and comfort of gut, without excessive power.

    When paired with a modern player and racket, WT provides a softer, gut string-bed with good feel, touch, control, comfort and optimized power. Designed for players with a more powerful game, it is also enjoyed by a wide range of players including those with a power/spin game and those who prefer hybrid string sets. Keeping in mind that thinner gauges provide less durability, this is a surprisingly versatile string. Available in 1.20mm in both 20 & 40 foot lengths, coated or uncoated. Natural golden color.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2011
  33. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    ^^^ Very cool. Definitely looking forward to reading about that. Those WT guts designed for bigger swings is definitely a product I would be interested in.
     
  34. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    WhisperTouch in itself is not soft for a natural gut. It's is without question on the stiffer side. The HT and XHT ones take that to a new level.
     
  35. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Just pancaking a few balls up and down in my living room, the stringbed feels pretty powerful.....the ball bounces noticeably higher off a horizontal racquet face than Scorpion, B5E, BHBR or any other poly. Nice sound though - thock, thock, thock. Mmmmmm, I suspect this is going to be a powerful stringbed setup.....I should really have gone higher with the tensions but I'll see how it plays over the next couple of weeks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2011
  36. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    ^^^ You may be OK if you use it in colder temps.
     
  37. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Well, I take it all back....

    Just had a hit for about an hour. The tension isn't too low at all. In fact, the stringbed is actually quite stiff - crisp, but almost boardy, almost poly stiff, apart from on groundstrokes where the gut mains are doing most of the work.

    Don't know what the stiffness rating of Co-Focus is, but I'd hazard a guess that its quite stiff. Will see how the strings play after they've had some more time to settle with a couple of weeks of hitting, when the poly's lost some tension.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  38. netguy

    netguy Semi-Pro

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    I can't talk about the HT, but I had a similar experience with Performaxx Classic Touch 16g during the first hours. However, when the CT was broken in the power went up significantly, and the string became softer. Classic Touch is a good value gut, but if you live in the west coast, you might wait up to 11 days to get the strings in your mailbox.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  39. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    ^ Obviously a slightly different type of gut, and in a thinner gauge, but I didn't find the HT gut stiff at all on groundstrokes, though its not easiest to seperate the characteristics of each string in a hybrid. The stringbed stiffness will almost certainly be the Co-Focus.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  40. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Funny, I just hit with my B5E/Thunder Blast combo today and I swear it seems slightly softer than B5E/Unifibre.
     
  41. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Trust me, it's the HT, not the CoFocus. CoFocus is not anywhere near a stiff poly.
     
  42. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    No chance.

    No 1.20mm gauge natural gut at 53lbs is going to have any noticeable contribution to a stiff or boardy stringbed. Hit any top spin groundstroke and the softness of the gut in the stringbed comes to the fore. Flatten out the stroke and you feel more of a stiffer stringbed, so I suspect its the Co-Focus since it will be the stiffness of the crosses that are coming more into play.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  43. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Oh no, another stiffness argument. :(
     
  44. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    No argument to be had. Everyone knows gut is the softest string you can get. It will be at least half the stiffiness of the CoFocus.
     
  45. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Torres, you're hypothesizing against someone who a. has tried the HT versions of Performaxx strings and found them to be incredibly stiff. XHT is stiff to the point of being no better than a multifilament. It's why even with a modern game, the Touch line is the only one that I ever felt was worth using. I've stated this numerous times: HT is too stiff to be useful as natural gut. CoFocus, of which I own a reel of, is not a stiff poly. It's not. It's rather lively and fairly soft. That's the point of it. Trust me on this, I've been using Performaxx gut it seems longer than anyone else on this forum. I've tried them all, and have publicly stated that I do not like the HT or XHT because they feel very stiff. They don't feel like natural gut. Is CoFocus stiffer than HT? Of course it is; it's polyester vs. natural material. But as you know, the mains dominate the feel. So yes, you can use logic and numbers here, but trust me, it's the gut. CoFocus is about as far from a stiff poly as you can get, and HT is about as stiff as a natural gut as you can get.
     
  46. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    If you don't believe me, I'll just prove it instead:

    http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringselector/stringselector.php

    Select MSV CoFocus. It's either smack in the middle or less stiff than all of the competition.

    As an example, using the fast swing in the 50s tension region:

    It would be laughable to call Hurricane Feel stiff.

    And to really prove it:

    Only 6% stiffer than Polystar Energy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  47. TaihtDuhShaat

    TaihtDuhShaat Semi-Pro

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    I actually like the feel of gut mains/co focus crosses after the poly has lost some tension and mellowed out a bit more. It gives more pocketing and spin later on, with a softer feel.
     
  48. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Naaaaah, its the Co-Focus that's primarily contributing to the stringbed stiffness. It's not the HT gut - that's pillow soft in comparison to the Co-Focus.

    As TaihtDuhShaat has pointed out, it should feel better once its lost some tension.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2011
  49. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I take it from your new avatar that you are watching the Finals?
     
  50. levy1

    levy1 Hall of Fame

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    I agree and had to cut the co focus crosses out. The scorpion crosses with Pmaxx mains feel much better the co focus to me.
     

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