PV Audio's Playtest Thread

Discussion in 'Strings' started by pvaudio, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    Really? I didn't have that impression at all. Baseline felt very differnt than Sonic pro to me (at least stringing)

    Ahhh, I remember how that one went. :) Good luck
     
  2. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

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    Funny you should mention Val Kilmer. An overloaded cart was in front of me at the checkout line at Sports Chalet in Santa Monica. I didn't see anyone so I went in front. Val Kilmer then came back to the cart and didn't seem too pleased that I went in front of him but he didn't say anything. Needless to say I didn't ask for an autograph. He must have had ~$1,000 worth of sports equipment. He must get a ton of residual checks from "Top Gun" and "Real Genius." He kind of looks like a little younger version of Jeff Bridges in person.
     
  3. aggielaw

    aggielaw New User

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    PV, I think I saw somewhere that you once praised the LaserFibre SNGPS 17. Any thoughts on using that as a main with Tourna BHBR. BHB7, or maybe WC Black 5 Edge?

    EDIT: Hmmm...just saw the WC Scorpion/PerforMAXX review. Would you recommend using the any of these polys (now including the Scorpion) as the main rather than the SNGPS17? Would you expect comparable performance to the PerforMAXX gut?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  4. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    You didn't offer to let him back in front of you?
     
  5. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

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    By the time he came back to the cart, the cashier was already scanning my Hydrosorb Tour grips (which I wound up not using anyway.) I was lucky he didn't go into his "HEAT" movie role mode.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  6. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    Haha, okay. Just teasing. Pretty cool encounter.
     
  7. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

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    Sorry for the derail, PV, but I get into a few chance encounters in my area. I'd say the most beautiful face I've seen is Selma Hayek's. She was sitting in a theater seat behind me and I thought she was a mannequin. She didn't even look like a person because her face was so flawless. This was back in 2000, at "Traffic" premier.
     
  8. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    Damn you Californians with your weather and beautiful people...
     
  9. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

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    Carrot Top shops at my Sports Authority.
    Does that count?
    I think I helped Teller as well, but I couldn't be sure because he spoke!
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  10. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

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    If I saw Carrot Top in person, he would freak me out. The guy's funny but kind of scary looking.
     
  11. all_backhand

    all_backhand New User

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    I used to work at In N Out burger and we got a bunch of famous people that came in. The most notable, in my opinion, were Harrison Ford ( he was in super crotchety curmudgeon mode and yelled at both my friend for not giving him enough pickles and a middle aged woman for asking for his autograph) and Robert Downey Junior, who was high as a kite and accused me of attempting to steal his chocolate milk shake. Those were the days.
     
  12. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

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    So that we don't get too derailed, at least let's compare celebs to strings. Ford = VS Team 17 and Downey Jr. = BHBR 17.
     
  13. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

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    Carrot Top would be Head Sonic Pro Orange.
     
  14. all_backhand

    all_backhand New User

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    Fair enough. Shaquille O'neal, who came through the drive through at 1am and ordered a 6x6, would be Luxilon Big Banger ALU Power... 10 gauge :)
     
  15. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

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    The dude is Buffed!
    Hans und Franz!
    Pump You Up!
     
  16. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    There are a lot of good things about being in school too. Seems like there are fires to put out every day once you get in the workforce.
     
  17. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    (Don't tell anyone but that doesn't change much from college!)

    Cut out the L[oser]-Tec yet?
     
  18. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Yeah, it's interesting. As an undergrad, right now was:

    "YES! Spring break! WOOOOOO! Time to relax, play video games, catch up on sleep and just have fun!"

    Now, as a grad...:

    "YES! Spring break! WOOOOOO! Time to study without having to go to lecture, catch up on work, and get prepared for the rest of the semester!"

    So sad, yet so true. :D
     
  19. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I'm leaving it in just so that I can hit with it twice and then complete the review. I give everything at least 2 hours. If it's not good by then, either it takes too long to break in, or it's just garbage to begin with.
     
  20. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    don't you want to find out if it keeps playing for 30 hours plus as some guy i can't recall his name claimed.

    he said he was playing at futures level, and i must admit that i don't know any player at that level (and i know a few), no matter how flat he hits, that keeps it going for that much time. the most i have heard of at that level, a really hard but flat hitting 1.95m guy, goes anywhere between 8-10 hours, depending on the kind of practice he has. a top 10 junior in europe with very spinny strokes, now 15, doesn't get through a practice session with a set - admittedly he uses a 16 mains pattern, while the futures guy plays the blades.
     
  21. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I wouldn't care if it never lost tension. It's just not good enough to play with for me to want it to last.
     
  22. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    Stellar post right here. Give the man a Pulitzer
     
  23. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I crammed grad school in to 3 semesters, so that was not the "fun" portion of college for me either. It will all be worth it when you are making decent money, working hard and having the government at all levels (local, state and federal) try to take it away from you. :twisted:
     
  24. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    L-Tec Premium Pro / L-Tec Premium 5S

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    First and foremost: thank you again to jdunnie014159 for supplying all four L-Tec half sets :)


    Note: "Cliff notes" of this very long review are posted right at the bottom.

    Stringing: Here are the strings in question:

    Mains: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/L-T...27_String_Beige/descpageACGLORY-LTPPOS16.html

    Crosses (in black which TW does not carry): http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/L-Tec_Premium_5S_16L_125_String/descpageACGLORY-LTP5S16.html

    Now, normally, this section is the most boring part of the review. However, I think that this time it will be the most important part because there are a few issues I want to address. First, the poly handles like any other mid-grade poly when stringing. No coil-memory, no friction, knots easily, etc. No problems there.

    The key here, as you can imagine, is the JET method. I'm actually looking at the instructions right now, and here's what I can tell you: I did NOT use the JET or JayCee or any other stringing method that I do not normally do. This is very important for a few reasons:

    1. This is a string review thread. I am not here to review stringing methods. If I want to test the JET method on a string I'm already familiar with, I will do so later. At the moment, I am reviewing L-Tec polyester strings.

    2. As hinted at above, as I'm scientific with most things, I will not change more than one variable at a time. Here, the variable is the string.

    3. I do not buy into string hype for a multitude of reasons, but in this case, the main issue is arrogance...and not on my part. They insinuate, and I do mean that word, that it takes a select group of stringers to be able to install these strings. That means that no one from **** or Priority 1 is qualified to string L-Tec polyester. That's preposterous, and as said, arrogant. I already string everything at the slowest pull speed, use low tension for polyester and let it settle before clamping. Have been doing that for quite some time for myself and every customer in fact. I've never had anyone dissatisfied with the quality of my stringing.

    4. So, to L-Tec if you're reading this: you can hold off on saying my results are invalid because I did not use JET. If anything, all opinions of your strings using a specific method cannot be taken at face value unless the string is evaluated first when strung normally.

    Now, onto a bit nicer tone: I chose this hybrid because it was part of the string set given to me and because it was recommended.

    I think that's all I have to say about the stringing, but here's cliff notes: this is an objective STRING review. No special stringing methods were used as I have not tried the method previously to see if it favorably changes stringbeds I am already familiar with. Tension: 45/45 lbs

    I am approaching this review as though they were given to me blind and unmarked.

    Groundstrokes: Overall, not bad off the ground. As I hinted at before, this plays like MSV CoFocus. So while it's not bad, it's not brilliant. There isn't an obscene amount of spin as was suggested, nor is there lots of power, extra control or super par comfort. It just feels like a mid-range poly.
    Overall: 8.5/10

    Serves: Pretty weak here. There wasn't much action being generated on my serves, so the spin carries over from the groundstrokes: not more than expected. Power was mid-range, accuracy was the same. Generic-ly good.
    Overall: 8.25/10

    Volleys: Slightly above average feel for a poly, but truth be told, it was just a poly at the net.
    Overall: 8/10

    Durability: Two definitions of durability here: tension stability, and breakage resistance. There was no noticable tension drop, and I didn't break the strings. So, I can't rate them on either merit, but there isn't any notching either. That also is not odd, so I'll give it my normal poly durability rating in that stead.
    Overall: 9/10

    These strings were really just...strings. There was no wow factor. WC Scorpion wow you with its dwell time and control. Signum Pro Poly Plasma wows you with its tension maintenance. Genesis Black Magic wows you with its comfort. This poly hybrid really didn't so anything exceptionally well, but it didn't do anything poorly. Again, this is like a slightly harder stringing MSV CoFocus: everything you need from a poly. Nothing you don't need, and nothing extra that you might want.


    Overall: 8.75/10

    Now, I reviewed the string in this way because it's only fair since I did not in fact pay for them. I evaluated them as poly strings, and was not looking to find that they were exceptional. In fact, I was going to be surprised if they were something special because I never believed any of the L-Tec claims. So, with all of that out of the way, let me state it like this: L-Tec polyester is the biggest rip-off on the market. It's based around clever marketing, a zero-loss game comprised of infinite exit strategies ("didn't use JET", "wrong hybrid", "wrong tension", etc.) and most of all, premium pricing to make you assume greatness. There is none here. This is just regular run-of-the-mill polyester.

    While the string may play like it is now for 30 hours, I simply do not care. Why? Two reasons of which the first is obvious: the playability is not high, so it's pointless to use. Secondly, I would break the string before then. So, if they indeed claim that their strings are so resistant to breakage that a futures level player can hit with them for 30 hours without popping, they can claim that. I don't care. I wish I could say that I was disappointed, but I wasn't expecting anything extraordinary to begin with. As Torres has said multiple times, polyester simply has intrinsic properties which unless there is something supremely novel going on, you cannot get around. It will not hold tension for 30 hours of hard hitting. It will not remain intact for 30 hours of hard hitting.

    There are what I like to call "pick 2 of 3" situations for just about everything. As an example: a car can be high performance, reliable and inexpensive. The car that's high performance and reliable will NOT be inexpensive (i.e. Ferrari). The high performance car that's cheap will not be reliable (i.e. 300HP Honda Civic that a 17yr old drives to high school). The reliable and inexpensive car will not be performance based (i.e. the aforementioned Honda Civic before it was modified). L-Tec wants to give you "pick x" situations. They claim spin, power, control, feel, tension hold and comfort are all superior. It's because of this that the price is seen in a different light as being a good value (you get more hours of supreme playing than any other string). Unfortunately, only the last one there, the cost, is truthful. This stuff is outperformed by poly costing literally fractions of the price.

    For whatever my word is worth: I do not recommend that anyone waste their money on trying for themselves. They are just ordinary strings backed by extraordinary hyperbole and hubris.

    True Overall: 5.75/10

    CLIFF NOTES: Do not waste your time and money.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
  25. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    I get the feeling you don't recommend these strings.....
     
  26. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    I have used both the 5s/3s, os/4s etc. I would not say the os/4s is worthless. That is the combo recommended for control all court.
     
  27. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    The pick 2/3 scenario is a good point. My dad (an industrial designer) would always say the same thing to his students.
     
  28. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    And yet, you don't even use L-Tec strings anymore. You cut them all out after a handful of hours to find something better. I never once said the strings were bad. I said the strings are bad value. Point more or less proven.
     
  29. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I was warming up my serve today, so here's the string forum's relevance to this video: I needed somewhere to set the camera, so I put a racquet on the teaching cart and then the camera on that. What racquet is holding up the camera? The L-Tec frame. Yes, it got demoted to pedestal use in favor of the weeks old Iontec which is what I'm using in the vid.

    http://youtu.be/UtfYGIiHVdY
     
  30. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    Hahah, that's awesome. And nice motion. I like how you really explode into them. I'm sure you do more on actual serves, but with a bit more knee bend and chest opening up (like bending it up to face the ball or w/e), I bet you could get an even sweeter serve. (Just a friendly note, since I was just watching a few service videos of pros today.)
     
  31. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Yeah, there is next to no knee bend there. I'm not really even on my toes on my rear foot haha. I was going to make an updated serve video (see first post of this thread), but alas, the backhands drained the camera. :)
     
  32. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    Very well written and thanks for taking out the time to review the string. I'm glad I don't have to buy a set.
     
  33. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    Haha, nah, it's cool. :)
     
  34. Uvijek Argen

    Uvijek Argen Semi-Pro

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    delete post...............
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
  35. Icedorb217

    Icedorb217 Semi-Pro

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    Weather YES. Beautiful people YES. Complete mean ppl YES. Plus the weather here is soo moody. Like a 30 degree difference every day.

    This post is meant to the off topic stuff on the previous page. Sorry if Im clogging the thread. Also PV can you try Iontec with OGSM?
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
  36. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    After awhile most players realise strings are really just strings. All the strings you reviewed have plus and minus. Too bad you didnt like the ltec. Many do regardless of the marketing. And the string is 20 bucks for most sets. Not going to break the bank.
    The biggest plus of the ltec is the consistency of them till they break. And as far as i know noone here has actually played a set till 30 hours.
    [


    QUOTE=pvaudio;6388897]L-Tec Premium Pro / L-Tec Premium 5S

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    First and foremost: thank you again to jdunnie014159 for supplying all four L-Tec half sets :)


    Note: "Cliff notes" of this very long review are posted right at the bottom.

    Stringing: Here are the strings in question:

    Mains: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/L-T...27_String_Beige/descpageACGLORY-LTPPOS16.html

    Crosses (in black which TW does not carry): http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/L-Tec_Premium_5S_16L_125_String/descpageACGLORY-LTP5S16.html

    Now, normally, this section is the most boring part of the review. However, I think that this time it will be the most important part because there are a few issues I want to address. First, the poly handles like any other mid-grade poly when stringing. No coil-memory, no friction, knots easily, etc. No problems there.

    The key here, as you can imagine, is the JET method. I'm actually looking at the instructions right now, and here's what I can tell you: I did NOT use the JET or JayCee or any other stringing method that I do not normally do. This is very important for a few reasons:

    1. This is a string review thread. I am not here to review stringing methods. If I want to test the JET method on a string I'm already familiar with, I will do so later. At the moment, I am reviewing L-Tec polyester strings.

    2. As hinted at above, as I'm scientific with most things, I will not change more than one variable at a time. Here, the variable is the string.

    3. I do not buy into string hype for a multitude of reasons, but in this case, the main issue is arrogance...and not on my part. They insinuate, and I do mean that word, that it takes a select group of stringers to be able to install these strings. That means that no one from **** or Priority 1 is qualified to string L-Tec polyester. That's preposterous, and as said, arrogant. I already string everything at the slowest pull speed, use low tension for polyester and let it settle before clamping. Have been doing that for quite some time for myself and every customer in fact. I've never had anyone dissatisfied with the quality of my stringing.

    4. So, to L-Tec if you're reading this: you can hold off on saying my results are invalid because I did not use JET. If anything, all opinions of your strings using a specific method cannot be taken at face value unless the string is evaluated first when strung normally.

    Now, onto a bit nicer tone: I chose this hybrid because it was part of the string set given to me and because it was recommended.

    I think that's all I have to say about the stringing, but here's cliff notes: this is an objective STRING review. No special stringing methods were used as I have not tried the method previously to see if it favorably changes stringbeds I am already familiar with. Tension: 45/45 lbs

    I am approaching this review as though they were given to me blind and unmarked.

    Groundstrokes: Overall, not bad off the ground. As I hinted at before, this plays like MSV CoFocus. So while it's not bad, it's not brilliant. There isn't an obscene amount of spin as was suggested, nor is there lots of power, extra control or super par comfort. It just feels like a mid-range poly.
    Overall: 8.5/10

    Serves: Pretty weak here. There wasn't much action being generated on my serves, so the spin carries over from the groundstrokes: not more than expected. Power was mid-range, accuracy was the same. Generic-ly good.
    Overall: 8.25/10

    Volleys: Slightly above average feel for a poly, but truth be told, it was just a poly at the net.
    Overall: 8/10

    Durability: Two definitions of durability here: tension stability, and breakage resistance. There was no noticable tension drop, and I didn't break the strings. So, I can't rate them on either merit, but there isn't any notching either. That also is not odd, so I'll give it my normal poly durability rating in that stead.
    Overall: 9/10

    These strings were really just...strings. There was no wow factor. WC Scorpion wow you with its dwell time and control. Signum Pro Poly Plasma wows you with its tension maintenance. Genesis Black Magic wows you with its comfort. This poly hybrid really didn't so anything exceptionally well, but it didn't do anything poorly. Again, this is like a slightly harder stringing MSV CoFocus: everything you need from a poly. Nothing you don't need, and nothing extra that you might want.


    Overall: 8.75/10

    Now, I reviewed the string in this way because it's only fair since I did not in fact pay for them. I evaluated them as poly strings, and was not looking to find that they were exceptional. In fact, I was going to be surprised if they were something special because I never believed any of the L-Tec claims. So, with all of that out of the way, let me state it like this: L-Tec polyester is the biggest rip-off on the market. It's based around clever marketing, a zero-loss game comprised of infinite exit strategies ("didn't use JET", "wrong hybrid", "wrong tension", etc.) and most of all, premium pricing to make you assume greatness. There is none here. This is just regular run-of-the-mill polyester.

    While the string may play like it is now for 30 hours, I simply do not care. Why? Two reasons of which the first is obvious: the playability is not high, so it's pointless to use. Secondly, I would break the string before then. So, if they indeed claim that their strings are so resistant to breakage that a futures level player can hit with them for 30 hours without popping, they can claim that. I don't care. I wish I could say that I was disappointed, but I wasn't expecting anything extraordinary to begin with. As Torres has said multiple times, polyester simply has intrinsic properties which unless there is something supremely novel going on, you cannot get around. It will not hold tension for 30 hours of hard hitting. It will not remain intact for 30 hours of hard hitting.

    There are what I like to call "pick 2 of 3" situations for just about everything. As an example: a car can be high performance, reliable and inexpensive. The car that's high performance and reliable will NOT be inexpensive (i.e. Ferrari). The high performance car that's cheap will not be reliable (i.e. 300HP Honda Civic that a 17yr old drives to high school). The reliable and inexpensive car will not be performance based (i.e. the aforementioned Honda Civic before it was modified). L-Tec wants to give you "pick x" situations. They claim spin, power, control, feel, tension hold and comfort are all superior. It's because of this that the price is seen in a different light as being a good value (you get more hours of supreme playing than any other string). Unfortunately, only the last one there, the cost, is truthful. This stuff is outperformed by poly costing literally fractions of the price.

    For whatever my word is worth: I do not recommend that anyone waste their money on trying for themselves. They are just ordinary strings backed by extraordinary hyperbole and hubris.

    True Overall: 5.75/10

    CLIFF NOTES: Do not waste your time and money.[/QUOTE]
     
  37. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    gosurfboy initiated a thread about l-tec strings and in his very first post claimed to be an open/futures level player and getting 30+ hours on l-tec strings as opposed to 5-6 with any other string (i checked that but you can use the search function to crosscheck my take of that).

    my first reaction was that noone at futures level, no matter how flat he hits, will get 30 hitting hours out of any string. from all the players at that level that i know, the max. is 8-10 hitting hours for a truly flat hitting 1.95m guy. the average is somewhere around 3-4 hours, with some extreme topspinners getting through the string in less than a 2hrs practice session.

    i myself, coming of age and still having a heavy topspin centered game, don't get past 10 hours anymore, but i'm mostly hitting with my almost 13yr old son, so if i'd have some harder hitting opponents, i wouldn't myself get more than 6 hrs max. on a string. last october i had a chance to hit some sessions with a 27yr old former futures player and the strings went in around 4 hours.

    this is what makes me really interested in this string, that apparently a current open/futures player gets about 5 times as much hitting time as opposed to other strings. under these circumstances it would really get very interesting and, as gosurfboy also argues in his thread, the initial cost is more than evened out by the additional playing time.

    i tried to clarify previously if the string is just bad in the evaluation of pvaudio, and the answer was negative, but in the sense that it plays just like any other decent poly out there, which is basically nothing bad. from my point of view nevertheless, shelling out some 23 euros for a hybrid string job does not make sense unless i get at least similar playing characteristics and a 5-6 times longer life span. my current set-ups, which i'm very pleased with, are around 5-6 euros and practically give me everything i'm looking for. if i could nevertheless get more playing time, i might be also willing to put up the money, as it comes out about even, i only have to string 5 times less!:)

    by the way, i have somewhere read that on the regular stringing symposium held by the distributor, the attendants could playtest sticks with strings that have been played already for 30-40 hours. of course, this was about tension maintenance and the ability of the string not to be dead by that time, but i might be allowed to doubt that that string has taken any serious "abuse" during those 30-40 hours and much more likely has been used to feed balls from a cart. these strings might be indeed very good at tension maintenance and then of course you would have a specific market segment just looking after that, but what good is 40 hrs tension maintenance capacity if you break the string after 8 hitting hours:)
     
  38. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    I think someone here at that high level needs to play the string till break. I made it to 20 playing some hard tennis. I can make it to 30 i would imagine as i play with my 11 year old a lot mixed in with some really good players. But i play a lot of top with an open pattern. If i used a smaller tighter pattern i can easily make 30.

    The 0s 4s hybrid barely notches. I dont see a reason to doubt gosurferboy. Or his level. Frankly most posters on here can def use most string jobs way past 30 hours as they over estimate their level like crazy and how hard they hit.

    A few posters have enjoyed the string. But not the hybrid set pvaudio played so its not really the same playtest.

     
  39. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    i am aware of some posters overestimating their level and i know that going through a set of strings in two hours does not mean you are a good player either.

    i the 40 years i spent on tennis courts so far nevertheless, i have not found a string to exceed others (we talk same category just to make it clear, not mixing multis with polys etc.) by 5x playingtime - maybe i just got the wrong strings all the time.:)

    now, this is the information i am looking for, in the sense that a good player hitting with spin and decent pace, gets so much out of these strings as compared to other poly jobs.

    pvaudio said that the l-tec he tested played similar to polyfibre black venom. now this is interesting and important for me, because i liked that polyfibre string, so this rather increased my interest in these strings! but the cash rules and the arithmetics of it is really simple: a reel of black venom costs around 100 euros and gives me some 33-34 sets of mains = 3 euro for the mains. a decent multi in the crosses is also around 100 euro and gives me 40 sets = 2,50 per set. so, currently i'm running at around 5,50 per string job and get around 8-10 very decent hitting hours out of this job i really enjoy. in this time, the strings i like and play do not go dead, so this part is not an issue with me, as i obviously go through the strings sooner than they die. that means that in my case the l-tecs would make sense if they do really keep it going about 3-4 times longer than my current set-up.

    so far, in this respect, only gosurfboy made a statement and noone else to my knowledge has confirmed that so far. i don't gosurfboy's abilities, but i don't take them for granted either, because in the end he could be one of those who overestimate their abilities too. what i would like to hear is that more posters which have gotten to play these strings confirm that they keep up longer by a considerable amount as compared to other mid-to-high priced polys.

    i think there were two other posters who stated that there is a slight loss of playability around the 8 hours mark, but that itself would not turn me off. all strings do have this, even the ones i appreciate the most. none of those, if i recall correctly, stated though that the string kept going at least twice as much as their regular set-up so far.

    over the winter i strung up a stick for me about every second to third week, as my playing time has been rather restricted - twice a week with my son when there are no tournaments. on touraments we get to practice courts, but that is a different hitting than regular practice. now, when we prepare to get outdoors, my playing time will increase. i agree that putting in a set of l-tecs at 20something does not break the bank, but at the end of the year and most probably 20 sets (if they don't last longer!) we get to an amount i could have attended quite a few tournaments with my son or would have practiced at least 20 hours more - so, from my point of view, it does count and it does sum up in the longer run.

    what i also don't really understand is that i seem to can't find any european source for these strings, in spite of them being obviously produced in the u.k.
     
  40. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    If you compare fresh Ltec 0s/4s to 10 hour they are extremely close in performance. Close enough that a decent player can easily compensate if they don't have a fresh stick.

    If you compare fresh ALU to 10 hour ALU it is a completely different string. I cut ALU out at 4 or 5 hous or 1 match. It just feels so different after a few hours.

    Ltec 0s/4s is very close in performance to ALU. Different but very similar characteristics. 2x the performance window and you can stretch it out longer for practice stick. The steep drop off is not the same as ALU.

    Maybe it is not better but more predictable than ALU its closest string imo.

    The other thread about Ltec review has the OP stating basically my findings as well. He got 2x the playability of ALU (for him around 8 hours.) I get more because I am sick of stringing my rackets. So I play till I can't stand it anymore which is around 16 or 18 hours when the string snap back changes.

    I think Gosurferboy has no reason to lie about being a futures player as there is no point in it. Unless he was actually one of the Ltec guys. the other high level guys are never on here talking about strings. If they do its brief. Only us hacks are all bent up about strings. It seems most of the high level guys are gone from TT anyways which is a shame.


     
  41. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    Hm. Sounds like NY minus the beautiful people and minus the weather! I know it's an aside but I really enjoyed Chicago-- people are so nice there and the subways are so clean :p

    I think you got it right with the first half of this post but not quite the second. For those of us who do break strings in under 8hrs and don't have a high budget to allocate to tennis, it is definitely a break the bank factor. As soon as the summer comes around I'll be hitting outdoors much, much more and hopefully with better players-- a 5 hr poly better do something positive for my game and be cheap. I'm sure PV and many of the other testers would agree that it's simply not worth it.

    I'm glad you're enjoying the string but when I read the above posts, I almost get the impression you're fishing for approval trying to justify PV's review (dare I say "trolling".) You're more than welcome to your opinion and ultimately the choice to use the string is up to you as a consumer. Opinions are opinions though and Yes, players like to puff themselves up but that's where you have to make a judgement call. PV has been open about the way he plays and has provided countless consistent reviews that have been regarded and echoed by many of the other posters on the forum. He's even posted video of his ability for those interested to judge for themselves. Frankly, I think he did a very good job of being objective with these strings.


    Regarding the life of the strings, I'd be more than willing to playtest any combination someone would like from the point of view of a "stringbreaker." Heck, I'll even videotape my playing hours of the string for credibility but you can be sure I'm not going to shell out the money to do so. I simply can't rationalize it in my mind after all the hype and what I've been reading.
     
  42. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    arche3,

    if alu is the benchmark, then i do really agree with you that getting two times as much out of the string in terms of playability, then l-tec is a real treat.

    my point about alu (i have soon the alu power rough on the line to test) is that after about three hours it is dead and starts getting on my shoulder rather seriously. the first three hours are almost heavenly, but then i found some other strings that maybe do a tiny little bit less in those first three hours, but just keep it going until i break them around 10. this is the reason why i don't want to afford playing with alu. i rather put the money aside and have it when (hopefully) i have to spend it on my son's tennis path.

    while playability is definitely a factor for people with flatter strokes wanting to keep the poly-string playing "fresh" for a longer time, a really legitimate request, personally i have found very reasonable performance with strings that cost at least half the asking price of alu and keep it going within my time window. if i would go through strings in three hours, alu might have been an option, but paying a rather high price for 70% "down-time" is not my style.

    basically the same idea applies to my interest in l-tec strings - while it is fine that they keep their playability on a high note, i would personally have no benefit if i keep breaking them within my current time window of 10 hitting hours. so, what i'm interested to find out is durability - the playability aspect seems to be confirmed by several posters, so i have no reason whatsoever to doubt it.

    generally i don't like better players talking down the evaluations of lesser players. even a beginner does feel the difference. the issue is a completely different one - is he able to exploit the advantages offered by the different strings? at that level it is obviously more important to accumulate proficient and reliable stroking mechanics, but nevertheless they do feel it. it would be really funny having a person on his first 10 tennis lessons to talk about string x providing more spin, simply because i doubt that it is possible to acquire the technical ability to impart CONTROLLABLE spin to the ball. nevertheless that player could still tell you which string seems to have more power for instance. so, everybody feels it, but only experience tells him what exactly he does feel and how to eventually capitaliye on that.
     
  43. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    I am not trying to get approval for a string? I was giving a different perspective as I think it is a very good string and I think a lot of people will like them. I use it now because I don't need to string as often and it plays well enough. I am mainly amazed it stays playable for longer than ALU and hits the same type of ball. But I am not a futures level player or anything like that so my needs are different. I just need a string that plays well enough so I don't embarrass myself. I have tried most of the strings out there for the past few years. often playing it for 1 hour then cutting it out. so I have a fairly large sample size for my game. I am naturally curious about the diff tennis strings so I played a whole bunch of them. I am going back to ALU to see what I missed or not very soon... But I will string very low this time at 45 instead of the 60 I strung at before (lowest was I think ALU at 52) . I still have a sneaking suspicion that low tensions will allow ALU to play as long as Ltec has for me. And the mini reels of ALU is actually pretty cheap if I recall.

    It seems you get free strings anyways so if I did I wouldn't pay for strings either.

     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2012
  44. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    for 10 hours between restrings I would probably go with a 7 dollar poly as well. It plays more or less the same within that timeframe compared to most polys anyways. for 3 hours between restrings i would string ALU no question.

    don't mean to derail PVaudios thread... sorry PV.

     
  45. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    The point has missed you completely. Did you not notice the review that I did? I gave the string 8.75/10 as tennis string. As someone said (fgs I believe), tennis string is just tennis string. Some have their ups, some have their downs. This stuff does too. It's claimed to have only ups. Natural gut is still the best overall string that money can buy, period. It does everything above average, and obviously for the longest time was the professional's choice (still is for many). There are many many reasons why natural gut is the supreme tennis string and has stayed that way for over a century.

    When polyester came about, it did not claim to give anything but more spin and more durability. It did that. You can swing at the ball harder and get more spin and not fear it sailing long because it's lower powered. Its material lends itself to longevity as well. It will never have the feel, comfort, power or outright control of natural gut. You get great passive control due to less power and more spin, but natural gut gives you so much feel that you can control your shots without the strings behaving unpredictably aka active control. All polyester manufacturers know that. The most any other poly manufacturer has claimed is to make a poly/multi characteristic string (Luxilon M2). While it does have some users, it is not coincidentally their most overrated and overpriced string.

    Here comes L-Tec claiming the natural gut polyester, but with added flavor. It must be installed in speakeasy stringing methods, chosen in proper hybrid format, strung at a specific tension, chosen for your playstyle, your playing level, your racquet and your reference string. Once you've swept all that under the rug, then you've got the most amazing tennis string to hit the market. That's what they claim. They claim it to be, as Torres accurately put, impossibly good. This hybrid here feels like good poly, and that's it. It's polyester, and plays like polyester. It has nothing above and beyond anything already good on the market. Yet, I bought my reel of Signum Pro Tornado which does everything but feel above average for $81 overseas. So, I end up with a better string in a reel for literally less than 4x more than a single set of L-Tec costs.

    So while you are indeed entitled to your opinion, $20+ is not chump change by any regard. For $7, you can put in something which plays identically well for the same amount of time that you'd be able to use it. In other words, you can keep on arguing that it lasts until the second coming, but that's irrelevant. If it's just fair stuff, it doesn't matter if it lasts forever because it's not even good to use. Let's say you get pizza for 3.99 which is a good deal, but it really doesn't taste all that great. Even given that price, you still wouldn't buy it. Now, we've got something that tastes like Papa Johns but costs $30/pie. Unless you take a bite and are immediately transported to Sicily, you would never opt for something that pricey unless it delivers (no pun intended) on its claims. You'd just get the Papa Johns instead.

    Oh, and seeing as this was one of the recommended hybrids for how I like to play, I couldn't care less if someone else has tried this particular hybrid (which somehow discounts my results). The hybrid aspect is the entire point of L-Tec.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2012
  46. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    Sounds like you have the right approach. Perhaps we are just reading things differently
     
  47. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    I said that btw.

    Also, I was not discounting your review. I did read it. but when you go on and on about the BS-Tec and how its impossible etc in the past..... Then your next breath you say, "I will give this my honest review" that is pretty funny. Way to set the tone of the review.

    You also wrote about the wow factor of certain other strings. which is it? Are strings just strings or not? Or do some strings just WOW you? Personally no string WOWs me. I like aspects of certain strings.
    Ltec I like because it plays the same for the first 15-16 hours at a reasonable performance level. I can hit the ball as well with other strings.

    If your setting yourself up here as a string reviewer expect others to evaluate your level as a player and as an impartial reviewer.
     
  48. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    Seems like he's pissed off about their marketing program and price, and only tried one type of hybrid, and then condemns the whole line. Where was that attitude when laserfibre was ripping us all off? Instead, he defended them. (Saying who he talked to there, and how well they treated him, and how great their multi was, so on.) That's just not lining up esp. when you consider how many of us got ripped off by them... Now this new high control/good feel line comes out, and he rips them up, and why is that? No discount? The only other string similar to the os/4s is alu power, which loses its tension faster by about .5. It costs about $15/set.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2012
  49. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    The price/value ratio only works if you love the strings AND they last a very long time. Otherwise, there are just too many other good strings out there that I can use.
     
  50. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    Such as? None of them feel like the os/4s other than alu.
     

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