PV Audio's Playtest Thread

Discussion in 'Strings' started by pvaudio, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    it is a while back since i played the regular alu (am going to test soon the alu power rough), but i liked then the 1.20 kirschbaum competition more than alu for instance. from that one i have moved on to the mantis power poly, which up to now is still my go-to string.

    but i find it a little bit awkward that you say the l-tec plays like alu while pvaudio said that it played like polyfibre black venom. that would be quite at the opposite sides of the spectrum in my view. or i have messed up the particular hybrids you are talking about and then it is all my fault.
     
  2. kiteboard

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    pv did not try the os/4s hybrid. He is basing his review on diff. ltec string. Does not feel like venom at all. I am not saying it is as great as some, but better than most polys I've tried, but it has to fit your style/frame and tension. Maybe he did not match those up is possible. He also stood up for performaxx, when the guy broke his word to me, and went awol for a bunch of us. It's not just poly, but ribbon injected poly like iso speed ribbon. It does last longer for that reason.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2012
  3. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    I don't think you're understanding the point here. It's quite possible to give an honest appraisal of a string, be open minded when testing it, whilst coming to the conclusion that the claims are ridiculous.

    The claims are ridiculous.

    You only have to look at the L-Tec website and the associated paraphernalia and brainwashing propaganda to appreciate that only the most gullible, foolish, or naive of people would believe their claims. Do you really think a thin plastic material that gets bashed with several KGs of force, repeatedly, hundreds and hundreds (or possibly thousands) of times, over 30+ hour period is going to maintain the same properties as it did in hour zero?

    If there was such a material, it wouldn't be L-Tec producing it. It would be DuPont, ICI, or some other big global chemicals company patenting it and using it in an industrial or medical industry application to make billions.

    At the end of the day, its plastic. It's a polyester, the same type of material produced by any other string manufacturer. There's nothing special or unusual here, as confirmed by PVAudio's playtest.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2012
  4. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    kiteboard,

    o.k., i did my homework and read through the different shapes and materials l-tec is selling. personally i would most probably not play a poly/poly hybrid due to my fear for my shoulder. i did some full poly with mantis power poly and i amazingly had nothing, but i would rather prefer for my ease of mind to stick with a poly-mains/multi-crosses combo, as these have only done me good.

    what i would be most interested in is the durability of these strings (not playability!). if they really last that much longer as only one poster has indicated, than they might be an option for me to be thinking about.
     
  5. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Ltec has terrible marketing. Its not based on any common sense. I agree. I dont believe it because i play the string.

    But have you ever went to the luxilon website? There is a string forum where you can ask a luxilon string expert. He has always claimed that the composition of luxilon does not change after many hours. And will react the same till break only diff is tension loss. But they claim string does not go dead.

     
  6. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    If you used an ltec poly main with their syn gut cross it would break very fast. I emailed them and the guy said the soft crosses they have are not durable. Its comfortable .

     
  7. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    This has nothing to do with your misconceptions related to my Laserfibre experiences years ago, so I will ignore that section.

    You've also completely missed the point. It's my fundamental right to condemn the L-Tec line based off one experience because of what I've been saying from the beginning: infinite exit strategies. You can automatically say that since this one "wasn't for me", I should keep spending 20 bucks a frame until I find one. Until I do that, only then can I make a valid assessment. That's a load of ********. Do you not realize I have many many times stated that I fully expect the L-Tec fans to come in here saying my results are invalid for any number of reasons? Yeah, that's exactly why my results are valid: there shouldn't need to be 10 variables for your revolutionary product to work properly.
     
  8. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Please just stop. Luxilon makes synthetic filaments first, tennis strings second. Their products sell themselves because of professional use. That is not remotely a relevant comparison.
     
  9. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Yeah. Pv played the softer spin setup. I play the stiffer alu type setup.

    [
    QUOTE=fgs;6390982]it is a while back since i played the regular alu (am going to test soon the alu power rough), but i liked then the 1.20 kirschbaum competition more than alu for instance. from that one i have moved on to the mantis power poly, which up to now is still my go-to string.

    but i find it a little bit awkward that you say the l-tec plays like alu while pvaudio said that it played like polyfibre black venom. that would be quite at the opposite sides of the spectrum in my view. or i have messed up the particular hybrids you are talking about and then it is all my fault.[/QUOTE]
     
  10. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Gentlemen, let us please resume cordial string discussion. To end this pointless debate, let me reiterate: the L-Tec plays like other strings on the market. Good. It costs much more than said strings. Bad. The reason the overall experience is bad is because you expect to be wowed above and beyond, and this did not happen. There is nothing more to say on my end. Feel free to continue discussion, but leave the validity of my test out of it please.
     
  11. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Stop what? I am not comparing ltec to luxilon. I just found it curious. The luxilon expert has swore up and down over there that a tennis ball does not have enough impact to change the elasticity of their strings. That the composition is much sturdier than that based on their testing. They claim to have the science.
     
  12. Up&comer

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  13. fgs

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    well, the cost/performance ratio is yet to be defined in my opinion because there is (in my understanding) still one variable to be asessed - durability.

    i understood that, contrary to all the marketing hype, the string does not offer that ultimative performance, but it nevertheless is to be regarded as a pretty good string. now, obviously you find a lot of strings offering the same performance for a quarter of the price. in case at least the durability claim is true, and it keeps up 3-4 time longer until it breaks, than the price/performance ratio is not so obscene anymore, as you have to factor in also your time for restringing.

    if i would find a string that keeps it going for three times as much as my current set-up, than i'd rather be willing to shell out the money and play with it. i apply the same logic by which some flat hitters do play with gut - it gives them some 20-30 hitting hours of superb performance and pure joy. under these circumstances, it really is not breaking the bank to have gut restrung some 3-4 times a year since it is well worth it, and any other synthetic or multi would not keep it's playability for such a long time. by the same standard i think that if this "not-according-to-hype-but-still-well-playing" set-up would have ne required durability, obviously paired with playability!, than it is well worth taking into consideration.
     
  14. Up&comer

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    ^^ Of course.

    However, no polyester can maintain its playability after 30 hour of actual hitting from a futures player. Physically or playability wise.
     
  15. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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  16. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    arche3. This thread has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Luxilon, ALU, or any associated terms. I don't care in the slightest what Luxilon does on their forum or with their marketing: it's not relevant to this thread. Therefore, this L-Tec review has no business being compared to any of the above. Now, if you wish to make your own review thread to find the L-Tec combo that plays like ALU but lasts for 20 hours, please, feel free to. You can also discuss that in the main L-Tec threads if you wish. This thread right here, is not that place.

    The next time you hear about Luxilon will be in the review after next which has Adrenaline Rough mains per request. Beyond that, you really don't need to defend L-Tec here. You can copy and paste my review elsewhere and bash it up and down and pick it apart with regards to Lux if you choose. However, since I made zero claims about Luxilon in any shape or form, using their strategies as a defense against my review is fallacious at best.
     
  17. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    It has to do with the claims of string makers. And I was not defending any string. I was actually agreeing with you. did you even read my posts?

    lighten up. its tennis strings. I was agreeing with you. I thought you would be interesting in the claims of another maker of tennis strings. (which btw I do not believe) no one really cares all that much so chill out and read my post as they are not what you think they are. When it's on here it's fair game for comments and replies. If you want the sand box all to yourself this is not the right place.



    If you do not want anyone else to reply or comment on YOUR posts here perhaps the better way would be to write notes to yourself.


     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2012
  18. TenFanLA

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    Basically PV, Arches and KB are comparing Apples to Oranges. PV tested Pro/5S (which I haven't played) while Arches and KB played with 0S/4S (which I have played and agree with them that it has excellent playability similar to that of ALU). In my 0S/4S review I said that people who like ALU will most likely find 0S/4S a more comfortable, longer lasting version of ALU.

    Also I personally will cut out 0S/4S after 6 hours because that was my observed peak performance period, although you can certainly play with it well past 10 hours with more than adequate performance. Lastly 0S/4S, like ALU and RPM, will NEVER win any price to performance awards. Those 3 premium polys are for PZero performance, not 3 year/36,000 mile guarantee performance.

    On a completely derailing note I just had to post my experience from yesterday's BNP Pariba Open (Apology to PV):
    "I wasn't planning on going because I hate driving long distance. But this might be Federer's last year at the Elite level and I don't know how much more Nadal's body can hold up. When I got these tix (4th row behind the baseline in the best section as a gift), I had to go. Here are the biggest impressions:

    Federer - SO precise like a Swiss watch. So much variety of shots, it's like everyone else is playing with a keyboard and Fed is playing with a grand piano. He is a true maestro. His serve is hit always 6 inches from the line. I never saw a serve go in more than a foot away from the lines. His FH is just a guided missile. His BH slice just dies on the court. You have to pick it up from your ankle. The most amazing is his footwork. Everyone else you can hear their feet thumping but you almost never hear Fed's feet. It's like he's playing on a cloud, floating like a ballerina. I think his shoes must be made of foam. Watching Fed in person is like a religious experience.

    Nadal - His movement and strokes are like a young BULL. He intimidates people on the court and bullies them around. His FH looks like it's going out by 10 ft but drops down 90 degrees and kicks up VIOLENTLY. Trying to return his ridiculous topspin FH is like trying to catch a cannonball with dishwashing gloves.

    Nalbandian - His BH is the best I've ever seen by far. He is the only one who can beat a pro's FH with his BH. So powerful, accurate and RIDICULOUS angles.

    Sharapova - In the whole match I don't think she missed 1 BH. Her BH is a flat, powerful weapon.

    Ivanovic - BOOMING FH. She doesn't look like a tennis player. She looks like a supermodel showing off her Adidas clothes on the court runway.

    Wozniacki - *YAWN*"
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2012
  19. kiteboard

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    Well, I'd say, that blackening a whole line due to one hybrid would be like blackening luxilon because you did not like timo, etc. If the hybrid did not work in that frame, at that tension, that's all that should be said and let it lie at that. The initial rating was 8.75/10 then you came back and derated to 5.75/10. The real reason I think it's just due to the dislike of their marketing campaign, and the mini jet method, etc. String is such a picky thing, so to each his own. The search continues for a poly that holds tension like gut and plays like alu/etc. I can't get any of it to last for more than 1hr. In that regard Ltec and ytex are not much better, a little. Doesn't matter what I do, or what I try. My quest goes onwards.
     
  20. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Then with that said, thank you arche3 and kiteboard for your opinions. That is the purpose of this forum.

    If anything, this debate has been instructive. I knew that this review would be controversial, and indeed it was. In doing so, it brought forth numerous opinions and viewpoints regarding string. Secretly, that was what I was aiming to achieve equally as much as reviewing the string. I wanted to see how people view equipment: some see it objectively, subjectively, from the views of others and only from their own. As examples, objective string assessments are technical data. Stiffness ratings, lab-tested rebound angles and RPM generation are all objective parameters of any given string. Subjective views are what we have here. People using them in the real world and making their own opinion given a known set of parameters. Viewing from others would be people taking my subjective opinion or the RSI playtester's opinions and using a string based on that. The final one would be akin to stubbornness: you know what works and has worked, so nothing could be better.

    I've strung frames for all four types of players and truth be told, no one viewpoint is right (obviously). But here we have an interesting twist, and it's what I was interested to see. The L-Tec strings have no objective ratings, very few subjective ratings, a few more selections based on other's opinions and no pre-held notions since it's new. However, the fervor generated by a single opinion was enough to spark a firestorm. Why? Because the product was marketed as though all four selection methods had been done and the string was superior for all. If nothing else, this just means one thing: please read my first post. See how I hit the ball, what racquet I use, etc. This thread's reviews are my own, and the opinions derived are my own. Sometimes they match with others, sometimes not. Doesn't matter, because as kiteboard just said, there will always be something else to try and everyone is different.

    With respect to L-Tec, the "blackening" was because the product was presented in such a manner that it should score perfect 10s. Since it did not and the same company can claim any number of reasons why it did not, it gets lower marks. The testing was to see if the claims were true in addition to whether or not the string was good. If the latter is true, the former is not necessarily true. If the former is true, however, then the latter is by default. Here, the latter was only true, and since the system is set up for the consumer to spend more and more money to potentially never find anything that wows them, I cannot possibly recommend that anyone try. Whether you do or not depends on which of the four types I listed above you fit into. I have no hold whatsoever over someone trying or not trying a string. But when it fails to live up to hype and that failure was pre-calculated by the manufacturer as an exit strategy, I'm not going to say "maybe you'll have better luck". I'm going to say: try something which you can afford to not like.
     
  21. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Was it purely by chance that you happened to watching the two most attractive players on the tour? :grin:

    If a string costs me $20, is promised by the manufacturer to be so good that every other string manufacturer should shut down their factories, and go into liquidation, is supposed to last 30 hours, no wait 40 hours, no wait, 50 hours, but then it turns out to be "just another poly", I think I would give it 5.75/10 as well.

    Actually, I'd probably give it less, more like -3/10 because it isn't remotely close to living up to the manufacturer's claims. In fact, it it would be a false statement of fact that has induced me into buying the string which, dare I say, would potentially actionable in court.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2012
  22. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Nothing like that happens by chance ;)
     
  23. TenFanLA

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    They both played on the main court, Stadium 1. It was like the perfect storm. First it was (1)Delpo vs. Verdasco, then (2)Azarenka vs. Goerges, (3)Sharapova vs. Vinci, (4)Nadal vs. Granollers, (5)Federer vs. Raonic and (6)Ivanovic vs. Wozniacki. It must been the "Hotties" day in Stadium 1. It's pretty amazing how good-looking these elite athletes are in person, men and women. Verdasco and Ivanovic are off-the-charts good-looking.
     
  24. mixedmedia

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    In the name of everything holy--wow!

    It's clear whose right here, and I'm glad it's on to something more...uh...less string related.
     
  25. mixedmedia

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    Thank you, again, very much, for the review, pvaudio.
     
  26. mixedmedia

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    If JD doesn't mind and you have enough let, maybe consider taking alidi up on the offer to test and film?
     
  27. kiteboard

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    Considering the impact takes place in 4/1000th/sec, or about 80 times for each eye blink (1/3/sec), it sure does feel different from string to string. I don't like lying scum bag ads either, but if it works for some, it's not just suggestion.
    "Listen to the sound of my boring voice. As you hear my key board strokes in your mind, tap, tap, tap, tap, boringly tap, your eyes are becoming very tired and heavy, and you begin to feel that everything I tap is right and good for you and your game.... Tap.. Tap...Tap...Good and right for your game.. Tap, tap, tap. Kiteboard is good and right for your game."

    Ltec had a coupon code that I took advantage of, LTEC-50, that gave 50% off, and that's what I got it at. When companies launch, they will often have that kind of ad campaign, for those in the know.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2012
  28. slopoke

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    Are there any time lapse photographs that show string snap back? I understand that contributes to spin....the more snap back, the more spin.
     
  29. all_backhand

    all_backhand New User

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    I have to disagree with you, kind sir. Kirilenko and Goerges have to, at the very least, be included in that discussion :grin:
     
  30. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I only have two half sets remaining: 3S and gut.
     
  31. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    As much as I want to say that this thread is not for this sort of discussion, I have to throw Cibulkova into this. I mean, come on:
    [​IMG]
     
  32. Up&comer

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    ^^ Agreed.

    However, I would add Vesnina to the list. Beautiful.
     
  33. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I leave for a few hours and at this tired hour, I can only appreciate a hot chick. Thank goodness I still have my priorities.
     
  34. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Are you kidding me? We have the same taste in women too? She is smoking.
     
  35. all_backhand

    all_backhand New User

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    I'm of the opinion that there's no such thing as a thread "not for this sort of discussion," but it's your thread so I'll defer to you lol.

    That being said, Dominika is very well received in this discussion.
     
  36. Up&comer

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    Nope, definitely not kidding :).
     
  37. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I call your Vesnina and raise you a Alona Bondarenko, and a Golovin.
     
  38. all_backhand

    all_backhand New User

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    I like where this is going. I'll call. Sorana Cirstea and Petra Cetkovska.
     
  39. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    The Isospeed/OGSM hybrid will be ready for test by this weekend, I anticipate. Stay tuned. :)
     
  40. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    And back on track. :) Better diversion than last time, though.
     
  41. pvaudio

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    Man, I'm really liking this thread right now. Every time I click on it, the first thing I see is Cibulkova :D
     
  42. TenFanLA

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    I saw a few SMOKING girls on the practice courts whom I did not recognize. One was an extremely tall, blond girl with legs that went on forever using a Wilson BLX racket. She looked like a 6'2" version of Ashley Harkleroad. I also watched Cibulkova practice like a maniac. Let me tell you something. If she were your GF, you ain't gonna have any leg energy left for your matches. :oops: Your opponents will have a lot of walkovers.

    Finally I saw Tony Roche coaching a young guy I didn't recognize. They were both hitting with YT Radicals. MY GOODNESS! This young stud was ABSOLUTELY CRUSHING the ball at Roche and he just blocked it back like it was a 3.0 puff ball. This 66 yo man is UNBELIEVABLY impressive. The crowd was gasping at the way he was moving the young guy all over the court with his volleys.
     
  43. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    Hahah, good point, PV.
     
  44. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    That just goes to show that there's a massive mark up on the strings, and that they're overpriced to begin with.

    As for your second sentence, that's a pretty silly and inaccurate generalization.

    L-Tec and their distributors have already done that themselves with their shabby marketing practices, secret sauce string methods, and over the top claims.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2012
  45. mixedmedia

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    Every time you say "secret sauce," Torres, it reminds me of the "soy sauce" in John Dies at the End. :)
     
  46. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    your right. I have been brainwashed. I am switching to BHBR 17 for life. :shock:
     
  47. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Cool. But BHBR 16 is actually the one to go for, not the 17, as its noticeably better and offers more control (unless of course you swing a Big Bubba, have funny arms, or have strung too low).
     
  48. nickarnold2000

    nickarnold2000 Hall of Fame

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    Has anybody tried using the Jet method with any other poly string? I think an interesting play test would be to test something like Tornado using this method and see if there is a difference.
     
  49. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    there is a difference. I strung up BHBR 16 awhile back mini jet at 47. and another racker fast pull no wait stringing at 47. the jet was stiffer off the stringer. and lasted longer. it pulls all the slack out of the string because you wait for it to stretch. Jet also didn't go dead as fast. The fast pull seemed to be fine then lost too much tension then went dead sooner. I tried the same with RPM 16 on 2 rackets. Same results.
     
  50. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    lol. I like all the inside jokes people have here. I like the BHBR16 actually. Much better than 17.
     

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