Discussion in 'Strings' started by pvaudio, Nov 22, 2010.
Haha, and no, you never gave me any myself. They had a "free sample" thing when they first came out.
pv my shopping cart depends on this!
I've got some half sets cut from a reel... We can help each other out.
I hesitate to recommend a multi for hybrids, as the only one I've found to be superb is Xcel FO. Unfortunately, it's near $20 which is natural gut pricing. The gut is going to be superior in all aspects as well.
As a poly, Scorpion doesn't truly compare to anything but itself. For me, it's just one of those game changers. Tour Bite is the spin monster, but is pretty much hopeless everywhere else. B5E is only good as a main. It's hopeless as a cross, and feels less than spectacular in full. It needs something to prop it up. A good multi or gut will do that, and once you've done that, oooooh boy. SpinX is a personal choice for sure. I can't in good faith recommend it to anyone. Typhoon, on the other hand, is another good all around poly. It comes in blue and grey, and while I prefer the blue, many prefer the grey. It's all up to what you want. The blue has more feel, the grey has more spin. The blue is softer, the grey is more responsive.
That helps me a lot.
Have you had a chance to play with Mamba's guts? If so, how do they compare to WhisperTouch?
I see you've used Thunder Blast in a number of your reviews, did you think it was a good cross? Any experience with Microfibre/Micronite or Prince Premiere Attack?
Also what's your advice on tension ratio between polys and multi/gut? Some have sad string the softer 6 tighter, 4, 2, the same etc. Just curious what you've found to be ideal.
Am I reading this correctly? Alien > Alu Rough? Please explain
PS. I hate country Miles, I'm always out of gas...
I don't like ALU. Actually, I don't really like any Lux poly. They just feel quite generic. ALU does have a unique feeling to it, but I don't personally like it. I can, however, see how some people would. Alien though has a great pocketing and bitey feel (yes I just made that word up). Problem is that it's incredibly expensive and simply heathenous to string.
Some new hitting footage. Got done with finals, picked up the sticks, and hit the court in darkness
The backhand is looking better! I like how you are starting to get the racket below the ball some. I'd still love to see a little more front knee bend, as that will help you drive through the ball more.
Thunder Blast is a great cross string and pretty decent in a full bed too.
*ahem* Where, oh where might I find some ThunderBlast? Woe is me!
Much thanks UC!
pv, thoughts on tension for multi/gut in relation to polys? And have you compared Mamba's gut to PerformaXX?
Dear all. I did ask the following question once:"My son of 13 y.o. Playing tennis and after few tests we found out that he prefers guts-poly hybrid and best of all tour bite and b5e.this summer I am going to send him to play few tournaments with a group, where I don't think that he or smb may care about hybrid stringing. So my question is if it is possible to find a good and similar substitution to above setup, but using one string for a full bed". But to get an answer I'd like to simplify it: what is your recommendations for competitive junior who used to nat gut-poly setup to use in a full bed. I need to buy a reel for him before he goes on the trip. So please advise.
On your doorstep come Monday!
I need to check out your new video tonight.
Maybe somebody in here will have an answer but I can't really think of anything. Why is it so important to get just 1 string type?
It is important, because in Asia like Azerbaijan or Georgia ,etc, they don't know anything about hybrid stringing, and while there are just one stringer for the tournament they most likely will refuse to string for you then to undertake hybrid job.
I don't think he has. But sometime over the summer (probably) I'll try Supra and compare it the PmC I'm using now. You could compare the two if you can't wait that long.
I will try to simplify I have enough sets of Tornado, Gamma professional, WC scorpion and TT and b5e, BHBR, MSV Co Focus, SPPP, tour bite, kirschbaum proline II, can get easily Micronite. Racquet used is Volkl O10L, son is playing all court game, trying to come forward as much as possible and enforcing shots when inside court and play with a lot of spin from baseline. So from above list what do you recommend to give him for his journey to be used as a full bed setup? Now he is using nat gut/poly setups in dif combinations.
pv, have you tried out doing a hybrid with any of these polys? Like B5E + CoFocus for example?
You know, honestly, I have not. Although it's the rage in some circles, one of which I won't mention by name, I haven't much cared for any poly/poly hybrids. It's likely because on that front, I agree with Wuppy: a poly is not distinctive enough to be reasonably used as a cross string.
Polys are not just polyester, they are copolyester, polyolfelin ribbon, alum. fluoried resin, etc. To say, "I don't brid poly/poly due to lack of diff. in poly as cross.", is just strange, when everyone on here who has tried more than one poly-copoly-ribbon etc, knows that the differences are huge.
Why do you think that so many have tried so many brids of poly-poly anyway? They are looking for the pop/control/spin/feel combo that you get from vs team/alu or vs/os, without spending the money on vs or they just like poly over gut/alu. My last three sets of vs/alu snapped at grommet shear, and that may have been to the 60lbs, but I doubt it! I was the one who replaced grommets on my pt57a frames, and only about two years ago. So I know the grommet edges are ok. (All were bag snaps.)
For any of you who have followed this guy's advice, on brids, this is a huge sign to stop listening. He does not believe that it is worthwhile to brid poly/poly, period, end of the story. That is an indefensible comment, so then, let's see what he says to defend it.
while i dont like your string of choice ;-) i have to agree with you on this one, some poly's facilitate (lateral) movements better than other, that means if used as cross they will help the main strings grab the ball better.
But I'd say its more worthwhile to spend one's time experimenting with hybrids of different types of string. Maybe if someone knew for a fact that poly/poly was the only option for him/her, then it makes to spend time experimenting in that area in order to fine tune. (And we all know that PV knows about poly and co-poly composition; most people use "poly" to refer to it and its derivatives.)
kiteboard, stick to your own threads please. Stop twisting things that I say around to defend your ridiculous L-Tec agenda. I also did see your stupid white text comment, which I would have assumed that someone of your age would not have to resort to using to make a point. It's really quite immature and getting old extremely quickly.
What hours do you work for GGTennis again?
What's a brid?
i almost hear him saying: hy brid.
Keep on telling people not to brid poly with poly and see how many continue to respect that opinion. Or do you also hate copoly/poly? And poly/ribbon? And poly/copoly? And poly/kevlar? And blah blah anything that you don't do?
Just in case no one has read this.
"No poly is distinctive enough to be used as a cross string." How is that for quoting you correctly? Now that's an immature statement, based on hatred of ltec marketing, or, what else? It can't be based on reality. What that should be screaming to you guys who know better is: This guy does not know what the hell he is talking about.
Mods, if you're out there, would you please mind clearing up all of this garbage from 2621 through this post?
Just so we have the full quote which you decided to edit.
kiteboard, if you want to disagree with me, then that's fine. If you want to repost my opinion elsewhere, that's fine. It speaks for itself and, not strangely enough, is the general consensus in the tennis community: a poly/non-poly hybrid is what more people are looking for than a hybrid consisting of two types of poly. As mixedmedia said, poly is a blanket term for a category of tennis strings much like synthetics are those that are non-kevlar and non-natty gut. If you want to argue me on that point, then you really have nothing better to do.
I did not once tell someone or recommend someone NOT to do poly/poly hybrids. Did that friendly jab in this quote you're gripping onto with your life pass you by? I did not recommend it. I posted my opinion that poly/poly is not what I'm looking for when I know the stringbed feel that I want is going to be found with something multi or gut. And guess what! It always has been. Look at my favorite setups: poly/gut at the top, followed by poly/Xcel. If you want to come in here and derail things based on comments that make you look just that ridiculous, don't bother and kindly refrain from posting in my thread again. It was doing fine without you.
Amidst all this drama, some updates on the 3 being playtested:
BHBR/MCS: Good at first. Once the MCS started to get rough from the BHBR, the spin went down, the mains notched, and now it's not super playable. May cut prematurely.
Tornado/Ex!: Decent at first, better now. Now that it's settled in, it's gotten pretty nice. Nice pop, but still not Xcel.
3S/"Gut": Decent at first, much better now. There is still really not much feel at all, and it's very mushy. The crosses are odd: they have softness only a multi can provide, but are solid to the touch (the mains still slide with ease). Ball fuzz also sticks directly to the multi which is something that only mulitis with specific coatings seem to do. It doesn't matter at all, but PPA did the exact same thing, and every syn gut out there that I've used does that. Good for in between points: pick out the fuzz, good to go. Cross reminds me of Live Wire XP actually. I'll give it a few more hours, but it's just not responsive enough for me.
If I can't find anything once I get my Iontec, I'm just going to take full poly with me and use that. Probably take Tornado and BHBR as I have the most of them.
only one way to solve this like men, fisti cuffs.
also, my friend did not get the gig with wilson, but he still is with alien somehow.
also also, a while ago you did a review on the wilson 90, I can not find the link. Was it in this thread, will you please help me out? Since you have played with my racquet before can you compare them. (might be a different guy, did you say you demoed this before?)
What makes you look ridiculous, is saying that no poly is distinct enough to be used as a cross string, and then defending it as if it's a correct/true/right thing to say. Anyone who listens to that opinion, and agrees with it, fine. Be my guest. The motivation for making it is either honest or not, only you know the truth. For the rest of us who know just what bs it is to say it, and then stand by it, I'd say, take anything this guy recommends, says, with that in mind: His judgment is bad and prejudiced against the truth. Poly/poly brids are the coming dominant force. Right now it's gut/alu, for joker, fed, roddick, murray, etc. Or straight alu or other poly: berdych, tsonga (back and forth from gut/alu rpm) Nadal, tipsarevic, Delpo is full alu. All those guys who use full poly do so because they like it best not because they are paid to. They pay for their string jobs, unless they are like mac, who had to have his money taken out of prize money. (Talk to Drakulie about that.) And then telling the mods to remove your quote and my post regarding it, is also chickencrap. Don't like to have it pointed out, is all. If I were you, I'd just admit it was based on hating ltec marketing, and little else.
I asked the mods to remove all of the posts, except for my original statement. I did that on purpose, because it's simply my opinion to not want to spend time testing poly/poly. So, if people are interested in that sort of hybrid, then they can go to your playtest thread where that's what you do. There is no poly on the market that when crossed with another poly will make it feel like a poly/gut or poly/multi stringbed. That's counter to the purpose of poly aka it's not meant to replicate synthetics or natural gut. Hence: there is no poly distinctive enough to be used as a cross string for me. It's not a set rule, my friend, it's a personal choice. I'm not sure why you keep posting irrelevant things like pros using exactly what I prefer as well, or why I should talk to drakulie about John McEnroe not paying for his stringing at tournaments. You're simply arguing for the sake of arguing.
pv, how much tighter do you recommend stringing multi's in a hybrid?
"What makes you look ridiculous, is saying that no poly is distinct enough to be used as a cross string, and then defending it as if it's a correct/true/right thing to say. "
Looking at ATP and WTA, how many players use poly/poly hybrid? How many use a Poly/something else(gut) hybrid?
There is nothing ridiculous when one's opinion agree with decisions of top players in the world.
Top pro's don't have time to think/research about strings as we do, trust me they go with what they are used to, even now know no one knows for sure if they even use the racquets they are advertised to be using...
I assume you are talking poly/multi hybrids. A four pound increase in tension of the multi seemed to feel good for me.
As Mike just said, I always tend to do the softer string (gut or multi) 3-4.5lbs higher respectively. If it's a syn gut, usually only 2 lbs difference, and if full poly, the crosses I'll do perhaps 1lb. I think I found I liked full Scorpion at 49/50 the best.
Ok great, thanks guys.
While I'm here, what are you opinions on the JET/JayCee method of stringing?
It may be better but I have enough problems trying to remember to change tension between mains and crosses. There is no way I'll get that method right unless I take double the time.
Exactly. I have no reason to want to have a stringjob last me 30 hours without going dead, simply because the strings will break long before then. It's akin to what's going on with alid in his thread. He is using 0s/4s, and even if they didn't go dead in 35 more hours, it wouldn't matter, because they will break long before then. And, in reality, it wouldn't matter, because I play fine with my stringing method and string, and really have no reason to change it.
Very true, but isn't the primary benefit of those stringing methods to increase the actual playability and not just tension/longevity?
I have a dropweight machine. I don't use the proportional part of the JET method, but I do use the string pattern and the pulling method. I skip the 2nd to last main or cross, then I pull extra tension on the 2nd to last string and then tie it off. I also pull tension on the mains for 5 seconds and for the crosses I wait 20 seconds while I straighten the cross and weave the next cross. I end up with a stringbed that is stiffer than the dropweight setting by about 7 pounds at normal tension range (which is consistent with what the JET method is supposed to do).
I did this with PPA and noticed a 9.2% tension loss after 11 hours of play. Last time a friend strung PPA for me on my APDGT, I had 12.5% tension loss after only 5 hours of play (I switched racquets and started stringing on my own after that).
I'm going to keep using this method. It makes sense to me that applying less weight to get the same SBS that you would with a higher setting will result in less stress on the string. I also like the idea of having all your perimeter strings at true tension.
One more thing I want to note is that the tie offs at the mains will undergo more stress than conventional tie offs at perimeter mains, so it's very important to have secure tie off knots. I've been using Parnell knots, but I noticed that on my mains the knots have been slipping slightly. I usually give about a 1/2" of length when I make my cuts but now there is almost no extra length on the knots. I'm going to use double half-hitch knots next time to see if they work any better, or I might try using a PC knot on one of them.
^^^ I'd be interested to know if leaving a string to tension for 20secs was much different from using the pre-stretch function. But that might be throwing this thread off topic...
If you're talking about the pre-stretch function on an electronic machine, the 20 sec wait is much different because you never add additional tension. The concept is that I can get a SBS of 57 by setting my calibrated drop weight to 50, and that puts less stress than pulling it at a higher tension with a lockout machine. If you have an electronic CP, then you can do the same thing by waiting 20 secs.
Yeesh. lot of quoting here, I've been MIA
I really liked PHT/Red PL II years ago. It softened up the PHT just a touch. I think you explained yourself much better later on though-- nothing is going to play like a multi/gut cross.
What's with the white text-- Seriously? Frankly, I think this was a bit of an extreme reaction.
In regards to the second PP. As someone who has tried more than plenty poly hybrids; No, we're not looking for the "gut" replacement. It simply doesn't exist.
Re: gut snapping. VS doesn't snap @ 70# (although the few times I've strung it there, I've prayed to the stringing saints on every pull). 60# isn't an issue at all. Are they snapping in the same frame or 3 different frames? Check your grommets again-- grommet quality can change from string job to string job or even in a hit. I have a p.i.t.a. customer who snaps aeropro groms every week or so-- I got so sick of replacing them that I just started tubing the heck out of his frames. Either you have a bum grommet, or your stringer isn't paying attention. The last, although highly unlikely, possibility is that you got bum sets of VS from the same batch.
Iontec Black has this strange quality-- the string feels "soft" in the hands but the physical string is rather hard. Bomber and 0s seem to share the same characteristic (although both of these are definitely much stiffer) as well and it seems to stave off notching. To date, I I don't think I've been able to notch and pop a set of bomber-- it's borderline ridiculous.
I have a reel of Iontec Black 1.25, shoot me an e-mail if you would like to try some.
I forgot what you're hitting with but shoot me an e-mail and I can give you a rundown of the 90s if PV is busy.
I've come to find that it's an acquired taste. I seem to like it and since I enjoy stringing, I don't mind putting in the extra time to fiddle around. On the other hand, some players that like more "response" and direct feel from the stringbed aren't terribly fond of it-- they're used to what they have and don't like change.
The biggest thing you'll find is that the strings will play a touch more forgiving or "softer" than @ comparable tension while feeling like they're strung a lb or two higher. It's a strange paradox
Ramon prettymuch hit it on the head. What I most enjoy about this is the pattern-- I use it even for regular customers without changing tensions etc. It makes sense-- Even if you discount the extra "resistance" created by the skip, you can clamp off closer to the grommets and tie off closer to the last main pulled which translate to less loss in tension.
I'm not so sure about the tie-off situation. So far I've had no issues stringing poly, multi, or gut this way and I snip my tie-offs very, very, short.
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