PV Audio's Playtest Thread

Discussion in 'Strings' started by pvaudio, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    Drop lob drop lob drop lob drop lob drop lob drop lob... That exact order. :)

    You're forgetting one very important one, through you :p Unless your slice absolutely sticks to the ground that ball is coming hard and at your ...erm... jewls?
     
  2. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    I love that play, too. But when I hit the slice up the line, I typically hit a combo of slice and sidespin, a nice soft shot with the goal of landing it barely past the service line and having it stay low and spin about a 1-2' out wide after landing. Makes the player move out and up, almost impossible to hit a strong reply off that shot if properly placed and spinned. No, that shot is not coming back at my family jewels.
     
  3. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    Haha. Yep, that happens sometimes. The good part is its difficult to hit the ball really hard on the run off a low ball slicing away from you. I'm always ready, though. Jewels are more important than points.
     
  4. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Yep, keep the handle in front of that area and the racket head in front of your face.
     
  5. dadozen

    dadozen Hall of Fame

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    pvaudio, I have gone through Firestorm and ALU but I'm coming back to B5E. I saw that you reviewed the BHB7, how does it compare to B5E?
     
  6. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    This goes out to ali, enjoy! :D

    [​IMG]

    Mmmmmmmm
    [​IMG]

    This is Tornado/Xcel at 3.5 hours. So, if you hit harder than I do, which the majority of you do, look elsewhere for durability.
     
  7. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    ^^^ It may hold on longer than you think.
     
  8. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    It didn't the two times before, once it started fraying, it only has at max an hour left. It's also making that weird pinging sound/feel that signals imminent multifilament death :twisted:
     
  9. maxpotapov

    maxpotapov Hall of Fame

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    So what? Imagine aerodynamics, and it looks ugly too :)

    Why crossing the poly with expensive multi (or natural gut) in the first place? I can understand if you cross multi or gut with poly, but vice-versa synthetic gut would suffice and be 5 times more durable.
     
  10. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    This is true. While I still support natural gut crosses, ultra high end multi crosses on the other hand make less sense (such as Xcel for that matter) since you could get a natural gut for similar money. Why did I choose this? For one reason, I got the Xcel FO for next to no money, and it's not that great by itself anyway. The other reason is simply because when coupled with Tornado, it feels absolutely amazing. It's one of the crispest and spinniest setups I've used. Unfortunately, as you can see twice now, TOrnado mauls Xcel FO.
     
  11. maxpotapov

    maxpotapov Hall of Fame

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    This calls for a new thread/open research, "Most amazing 2-hours setup"
     
  12. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    X1 Biphase would win my vote.


    This is why I always cut out Discho Microfibre around the 12-15 hour mark. It just starts to look ugly.
     
  13. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    Yes, I understand what you're saying and I wish I had the control to pull that shot off consistently

    . My point is, it's very difficult to play that ball effectively unless you've either got such a good slice that it sticks to the ground or you have such a well masked shot that it catches your opponent off guard. Most players that can hit that shot telegraph it but should you belong in the latter case, you probably won't have to rely on it to win points...

    Yes, but again, refer to my above response. Unless you're hitting a slice that sticks to the ground or have an awesome mask, it can be a very dangerous shot to play especially against mobile players. In the above scenario, a ball that even smarts of a sitter in that position screams passing shot to me.

    Playing 4.0, a lot of players will rush that shot as was mentioned above or just gift it to you in exasperation. I found that players around 4.5+ will absolutely punish you for executing that shot poorly



    B5E is more of a neutral string, you'll find better tension stability and even tempered play. B7 takes B5E + some pop and a ton of spin. The tradeoff is stability and durability. Just my .02
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2012
  14. souledge

    souledge Semi-Pro

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    What would you say are the 5 best strings for spin from the baseline?
     
  15. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    My friend, that would require another thread entirely. I can't begin to answer that question, but I bet you will find at least a few common answers: Tourna BHBR, Solinco Tour Bite and Pro Supex Blue Gear. I would bet the first two show up 85% of the time.
     
  16. souledge

    souledge Semi-Pro

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    Haha thanks for the response.

    I find that Spiky Shark leads the TWU site in spin, but it's not very popular on the boards for some reason. Have you ever playtested that string in particular?

    I must thank you for creating such a thread, it's nice to have some sort of reference point when selecting string:

    These are the combos I'm hit so far:
    VS Team 17 / ALU Power Rough 16L : Great power, good for a flatter hitter
    ALU Power Rough 16L / RPM Blast 17: Decent set up, good power, ok spin
    RPM Blast 17 / ALU Power Rough 16L: Best spin of the three, decent power, my favorite for at least an hour.

    Ever thought about playtesting any of those three combinations?
     
  17. souledge

    souledge Semi-Pro

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    I wish I could edit my previous post, but it seems I can't.

    Other ideas would be a full bed of BHBR or Tour Bite, as well as crossing them with Nat gut, or even using Nat Gut Mains with either of those two as crosses.
     
  18. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Ah mikeler, took only 40 more minutes before it released its grip on life :)

    [​IMG]

    Mmmmmmmmm
    [​IMG]
     
  19. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    Nice pop. Those fibers still give me the heebie jeebies tho
     
  20. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    The Discho Microfibre does that. I just can't seem to break it even though it looks like multiple places it is ready to go at any moment.
     
  21. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    I have nightmares about that stuff...
     
  22. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Have you tried Tornado/Mosquito Bite yet?

    I'm currently testing Typhoon/MB and it is sweeeet. I'd imagine Tornado mains even better performance over time. MB crosses are so soft it's like having a syn-gut comfort cross with all the performance of full poly. Control, spin, power, touch are all there... all that's left is the longevity question: 2 matches in and so far so good!
     
  23. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    tonic is a good string, at least good enough for my game. with stuff like that and vs it is all just mental for me. Kind of sad but I almost have the mentality that if I buy some thing that cost more then it must be better. Because clearly the cost of a 16 dollar poly must mean that it is the best string out there.
     
  24. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    on a side note, I am pretty close to hewitt's actual setup. Same tension and almost same poly. he also plays his vcore in stock form. do you plan to get more tonic in stock, and if you did would it be old or new?
     
  25. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Nope not planning to get any more Tonic, and if I did, it would be the new stuff. All of my VS Team is pre-BT7 however.
     
  26. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    You guys might be proud... I strung up multi-- Sensation Control
     
  27. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    That wasn't half bad actually.

    My fingers are screaming, just strung 3 Radical MPs with Black Widow 16. I thought Hexablade was bad in dense string patterns.

    I also think that Scorpion/S-Gut shall be my go-to. Once settled, it plays absolutely like I want it to. Plenty of spin, plenty of touch, fairly neutral power, and superb control. Also, 6-7 bucks a set too. Much better than the Tornado/Xcel which is over 2x more.
     
  28. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Sorry I missed this! Nope, I did not try that hybrid nor am I planning on it. I am not a believer in full poly hybrids even though they have their proponents.
     
  29. Samuka

    Samuka New User

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    Interesting. Which tension you will to use ?
     
  30. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    47/52 has been pretty good to me, so I think I'll stick with that.
     
  31. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    I dont understand though man, I like the new racquet. It does several things well. However I am dying on the two hander. You hit with me, my two hander is normal way more solid right? Why is this new racquet so different. I feel like I could play for hours with the vcore, but only a couple with the rdis. you think I should switch back? We have only hit a couple of times, but have you notice any differince (remember rdis with forten.) Any adivice would be awesome.

    thanks
     
  32. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    also I dont want to use any lead.
     
  33. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Honestly, I don't know. Are you saying the RDiS is better? The slice with the RDiS is lower, that much is for sure. If the two sticks are balanced differently, then you just need to adjust to the different frame. I think that's likely all it is. I mean, the gut cross isn't going to change much and you've used that Lux poly many times. Also, the string choice isn't going to cause changes in your BH. That's likely timing related.
     
  34. souledge

    souledge Semi-Pro

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    Thought about doing an L-Tec review comparing JET and non-JET installation methods?
     
  35. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    No, and for a number of reasons with the main one being that I will not use the JET technique for my customers. If someone wants to do this playtest, then please feel free. The stringing practice is what irks me above all else because it implies that the stringers for the likes of Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray and all other players who have sticks strung by tournament stringers are simply not qualified to install this string. Or put another way, the method that is good enough for professional players is not good enough for the moderate hitting rec player (no one gets 30 hours out of a poly before it breaks unless you're not hitting a huge ball).
     
  36. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    As hinted at in U&C's thread, I think that after 2 years and 150+ pages, I am done playtesting. It says everything when a poly tested on the first page of the thread is the poly I am going to stick with now on the last page.

    Also as mentioned there, I agree with his sentiment on strings. All of these setups from gut mains to Iso Baseline/OGSM are fine. Above all else, what I've learned most is that string choice is not about performance, rather it's about preference. I could have won a match using B5E/6Star just as I could have won it with that dreadful Wilson blue poly. THe only difference is that the ones I don't prefer detract from the fun. Performance wise, with a few exceptions, strings will get you where you need to go. So with that, I leave you with an analogy: cars.

    I have an '02 Civic Si that I've owned since high school. I cross-shopped Subaru WRXs, Golf GTis, and even thought about replacing it this year with a myriad of newer and faster cars. And yet, none of them feel right. The steering in my Civic just has more feedback, the gear change feels higher quality, the interior is of astounding finish, the engine is just perfectly smooth, and the car has a perfect blend of power and fuel economy. All of those other cars would have done the job, but nothing to me feels right compared to my car, and I knew that the first time I test drove it 7 years ago.

    Point being, I prefer my $6k Honda to a $26k Subaru for the same reasons I prefer my $6 Scorpion hybrid to a $20 gut hybrid. It just fits me, so on that note, I urge people again to take every review with a huge grain of salt. I'll still answer questions about any stringbed or strings, but active testing I believe to be over.
     
  37. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    what does pro streatching gut do? And do I get that done?
     
  38. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Pre-stretching comes in two forms: manual or machine. I'm assuming you're talking about machine, but nonetheless I'll describe both. Natural gut, like polyester, is often feisty to work with. However, unlike gut, it doesn't matter if you kink poly. Kinking gut can easily damage it. So, manual prestretching is typically done to remove what's called the coil memory: the tendency for the string to go back into the shape it was packaged in. You take the loop of string at the halfway point and hook it around something solid, say a door handle, and pull backwards until the string is tensioned. As I was taught and as I've done with some strings, simply leaning backwards with your body weight is sufficient for a few seconds versus actively pulling on it with your arm.

    Now machine prestretch is a different thing entirely. What this does is add a certain percentage of the reference tension to each string pull. As an example, you got your Tonic strung at 54. I can select on my machine if I want 5, 10, 15 or 20% prestretch. Let's say I do 20%. So, instead of pulling up to 54, the machine will overshoot 20% to 64.8 and then settle back down to 54. That overshoot removes elasticity in the string and improves tension stability. It also lessens the feel of the string for the same exact reason. It always comes down to preference of the player.

    I should point out that you can prestretch by hand using the manual method above, but obviously there is no way to have a precise amount unless you're using some sort of force gauge. Either way, that's not an area I'm familiar with, so I'll defer that to someone like drak or Irvin who likely know how it's done.

    For me personally, if it was gut crosses, I would do 10% prestretch if I would be using very lively poly mains since I want the crosses to have the best tension stability possible and to damp the power once the poly dies. If it's a less powerful poly, say B5E, I want as much feel as I can get so I do no prestretching. For gut mains, I do not prestretch for myself.

    To answer your last question, I do not prestretch gut by default. I ask guys who play with gut if they want it, and typically if it's their first time playing with gut, I always recommend against it since it changes the characteristic of the string.
     
  39. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    thanks for the info
     
  40. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Sometimes you just need a break from play testing. I've enjoyed playing with the same setup the last few months. When a few packs of white Genesis Thunder Blast came in the mail last week, all of a sudden I felt the rush again. :)
     
  41. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    Come on, don't do this to me. That would be awesome of they had a white thunderblast.
     
  42. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    It's like PV is saying adios! I follow 3 TT users threads often (the last three who posted). I look forward to your feedback...even for a good read.
     
  43. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Nah I'm still here, just not going to bother spending more money on strings :)
     
  44. mctennis

    mctennis Hall of Fame

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    pvaudio- can I ask if this S-gut is just a synthetic gut or is it a true gut? I've been following your great thread and I didn't see that particular review. If it is just a synthetic gut what one(s) do you prefer? and tensions?
    Thanks.
     
  45. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Even when you are not playtesting, there are new users all the time with questions. Viva la thread!
     
  46. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    S-Gut is simply a $4 synthetic gut: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Dunlop_Synthetic_S-Gut_17_String/descpageACDUNLOP-DSG17.html

    I use the black version personally, and I find it plays better than all but OGSM as a cross string. I string that puppy at 52lbs in the crosses. :)
     
  47. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Alas, the thread is alive and kicking still. It's now time for others to fall into the abyss of tennis string testing :twisted:
     
  48. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    I thought S-gut was supposed to be one of those multifilament/synthetics?

    It's amazing how crazy things get when you first start testing-- then all of a sudden it doesn't really matter anymore and you start playing cheaper and cheaper. Granted, you always play your preferred strings for matches that count but practice becomes a measure of financial preference, haha.
     
  49. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Ah yes, how true that is. And I'm pretty sure it's just a solid core with fancy marketing. Now that the black coating has worn off, I can see Scorpion mains completely through the string. Of course, I could be dead wrong but it's playing like a syn gut and not a multi.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  50. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Oh and I'm using 16g if anyone is wondering. Very very smooth cross string, does not inhibit mains movement. Scorpion died on me after 4.5 hours with it though, perhaps I'm just getting better :(
     

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