Question: If my opponent doesn't call my serves/ shots out should I?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by FedererForehand, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. FedererForehand

    FedererForehand Banned

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    I'm sure this has been discussed many times before but I just got home from a 6-4, 2-6, 2-6 loss and am in no mood to use the search feature!

    What are the rules (or unwritten rules in my case) when it comes to my opponents playing my long serves or shots that are slightly out? Normally it doesn't bug me but it does when they play a ball and then hit their return long or shank it and then I get the point. I end up feeling guilty like I should have called the ball out when I knew it was out.

    I am also one to play a serve if its a bit long as long as its relatively close I'll play the point, but that doesn't bother me.

    Am I doing the right thing by just playing and letting my opponent make the calls?
     
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  2. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

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    You can't call out a first serve, but you can call out a second serve, because that would make it a double fault anyway. Like you, I give my opponent a big court to hit into on the serve. So sometimes I'm sure I play serves that were out. I never play one that is way out, also, I realize that doing so might catch my opponent off guard. It is considered gamesmanship to play a serve one knows is out in an effort to catch your opponent by surprise.
     
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  3. topher.juan

    topher.juan Rookie

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    I had the same question a while ago. Answer is: if your opponent plays the ball without calling it out, it's good. No longer do I watch my bounce, I watch their prep/return, if they send it back to me without calling it out, it's in play. I'm not sure how much time one gets to make the out call though?? Is it before I hit the ball (their returned shot)? Anyhow, I was upset I lost the match because of this and had the same moral dilemma about winning points on out serves, but I got over that and now see it as their problem if they can't see the ball out, they can ask me for my opinion and I'll be truthful, otherwise, if they thought it was in (and it wasn't) and hit it out = MY POINT. Your opponent needs to work out reading serves, if he can't read them right, it's only right he loses points for that.

    Check out this thread: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=264912
     
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  4. mikro112

    mikro112 Semi-Pro

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    These are the rules for making calls according to the USTA code:

    USTA CODE

    If you are certain that your shots were out, I would probably talk to my opponent about that in a friendly way. The best way to react to problems like that is, however, to prepare yourself after every serve to hit your opponents return. If he calls it out, you don't have to worry about the return, if he calls it in, you can just hit it like every other shot. Also, if he calls out balls in, that's most likely an advantage for you, because all those serves were probably close to the lines and thus an at least decent serve.
     
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  5. mikro112

    mikro112 Semi-Pro

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    Well, you should always call in favor of your opponent. If you're not sure, it should be your opponents point. Your opponent has time to make the call until the server hits the ball. ;)

    For myself, I do it like the following:
    - On hardcourts: When I'm not 100% sure that my opponents serve was out, I play it, even if I realize after the point (by looking at the mark) that the serve was in. I don't have any moral dilemma with that because in the most cases I am ruling in favor of my opponent because here in the US, it is VERY common to call out most of the really close balls. However, I call those balls in.
    - On claycourts: As I played most of my tennis-life on claycourts, I have a pretty good vision to check the mark after I have hit the return. As the marks are visible pretty well, I quickly make the call even after I hit the ball. But on claycourts, the same rule applies for me: If I'm not 100% certain that the ball was out, I play it.
     
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  6. topher.juan

    topher.juan Rookie

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    ^^I agree with that. If a ball is ever too close to call, I call it in. If it's out, I take absolutely no time in calling it out; take a moment and people will consider that uncertainty. Tennis champions are uncertain about nothing. I don't care how social or "for fun" the opponent may "think" the match is, it's 100% serious for me. You've gotta shout OUTTTTTTTTT!!!! in the most authoritative cold-blooded and dead-certain way that they would be insane to ask:

    "....are you sure?"
     
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  7. Grover Sparkman

    Grover Sparkman Rookie

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    I'm pretty liberal with calling it out. Like others, if I can't tell for sure I play it, and sometimes I play it even if I'm pretty sure it was out (by an inch or two). My opponent usually recognizes this and gives me the same liberties and we have a pretty friendly match. On the rare occasion I get the guy who calls them by the letter or calls in his advantage, well, I've been known to hook on occasion.
     
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  8. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    On clay, if I play an out serve and then win the point, I tell my opponent I blew the call and give him a first serve to replay the point. If I lose the point then I do nothing.
     
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  9. blakesq

    blakesq Professional

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    This is a good thing. FREE POINTS!


     
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  10. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    I never call my own first serves out because that is against the rules.

    I usually don't volunteer to call any other shot of my own out unless it is very obvious and my opponent clearly can't see it. Example, I hit a down the line shot that is out by a couple inches and I can clearly see it, but my opponent is on the other side of the court and can't tell it was out. I will give them the point.

    If they ask me for a call on my own shot, I will always give an honest answer.
     
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  11. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Guest

    It's only against the rules to call your first serve out if the receiver puts the ball back in play.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2009
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  12. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

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    Isnt it the other way around?

    If you're serving and the returner returns the ball in play, you cant call your serve out.

    If you're serving and the returner shanks the return (and would of lost the point), then you can correct their out call.

    That was my understanding, maybe you made a typo.

    (the understanding is that you can only correct your opponent's call when it doesnt directly benefit you)

    Otherwise this wouldnt be an issue, we'd correct our opponents everytime they did this.

    I accidently called let a few weeks ago when my opponent returned a ball that was well over a foot out (he does that all the time, he's known for it).

    This has been discussed many times before but is there a penalty for an "improper let call?" in an officiated match?
     
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  13. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Guest

    Yeah.. I screwed that up. I meant what you said.. I was going to word it a different way, and then changed my sentence, and messed it up. Editing now..
     
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  14. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Guest

    In an officiated match, if you called let when your opponent played an out serve and put it back in play, you would lose the point as a "Hindrance"
     
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  15. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    I think Woodrow is correct. I believe another way to state what he said is that a server can call their own first serve out if the receiver fails to put it into play. This seems equitable since the server is not gaining any advantage by doing this as the receiver would have lost the point had the server not called the fault.
     
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  16. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Guest

    Yeah.. Like I said, when I first typed that, I screwed it up. If the receiver puts the ball back in play, it's illegal for the server to call their first serve out. If it's an ace, or unreturnable, then the server can call the first serve out against himself.
     
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  17. blakesq

    blakesq Professional

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    I didn't believe you guys, but you are right, from the code, rule 26:

    Service calls by serving team. Neither the server nor server’s partner
    shall make a fault call on the first service even if they think it is out
    because the receiver may be giving the server the benefit of the doubt. There
    is one exception. If the receiver plays a first service that is a fault and does
    not put the return in play, the server or server’s partner may make the fault
    call. The server and the server’s partner shall call out any second serve that
    either clearly sees out.


     
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  18. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

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    What about in an unofficiated match? According to the code, hindrance cant be called after the fact. (either can a let)

    Either way I know it wasnt correct to call let in that situation, it just kind of came out from the frustration. This is the only guy I have a problem with and it's because he consistantly hits balls that are well beyond the norm for "calling it close".

    A couple of us tryed to confront him about it a week ago and he made the excuse that "well if I have to really worry about calling the ball accurately then I wont be able to return the ball". Nice.....

    Also here's another one:

    It is an officiated match, but players are still making their own calls, one player consistantly is returning serves that are more then 2 feet out. Is that something an official would mention or is it just fair game?

    The problem I see is that there really ought to be some limit as to how far you can go with not calling these serves just because you happen to have a good return, because it is unfair to the server, and it does give you a unfair advantage. (but I guess like most rules the expectation is that you will be honorable about it)

    (not that we're on the rules committee or anything, maybe just something that's missing...)
     
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  19. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Guest

     
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  20. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

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  21. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

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    If the person is know for not calling long balls out on serves, how is this a problem for you?

    Doesn't it mean you can serve it harder against him. If he's too blind to make a call then it's should be your problem. You want to be fair, but you can only do so much. If it starts to effect your own game then I would just ignore this and hit even harder on the serves and be ready to play all serves in or out.
     
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  22. FlamEnemY

    FlamEnemY Hall of Fame

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    Hey, I'd never cheat my hitting partner. What's the point of playing if I have to resort to such cheap tricks?
     
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  23. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

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    Talking to me?
     
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  24. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

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    Yeah, if you're hitting with a partner then you should let them know so they can fix their serves, but if it's an opponet, it could be their form of gamesmanship. Maybe their trying to get under your skin or annoy you? Sometimes you don't know what the other person is thinking. Maybe he feels sorry for you and wants to give you a chance. Don't know.

    These calls go both ways also. When the serve is coming at 100mph it's pretty tough to tell if the ball is out. These cases you give the benefit of the doubt.

    If they are purposely calling balls in, it shouldn't be your responsibility to make out calls that are blatantly out. You need to play balls based on calls made by your opponet. What if he really thinks that the ball was in? You have to respect his call and play the point. Simple as that, otherwise call for a line judge. A player shouldn't have to be burdened with making calls on the other side of the net.
     
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  25. jc4.0

    jc4.0 Professional

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    Out or ace?

    I believe the rule is, you can't call any ball on your opponent's side including the serve. Never feel guilty if your opponent makes a bad shot - you'll be dealing with a lot of angst on the court.

    I have a problem when my opponent calls my serve out, and it was clearly an ace. I think this happens because nobody likes to be "aced". For some reason, this makes me angrier than if they call a ball out that I thought hit the side or baseline! Probably because I don't hit too many aces, and when I do - I want credit.
     
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  26. coloskier

    coloskier Legend

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    The biggest problem I see is an opponent who calls a serve in if it is out only because he was able to return it. I have that happen to me frequently, since I can occasionally crank my serve up into the 120's. The way you can tell they are doing it is if an out call comes after they have hit the ball but it is obvious their return is going out. After I see that happening a few times, some of their good serves mysteriously will be called out. Then we will have the discussion about calling out serves in only if you return the ball. Unfortunately, that is the only way I have found to stop it from happening again. If you are going to play out serves, then you should live and die by it. Don't change your mind because you can see your return is going out.
     
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