Rafa to skip Queens due to tax laws!

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by wintintu, Oct 15, 2011.

  1. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14,579
    What are prize money and appearance fees if not income?
     
    #51
  2. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,594
    The principle is fair, but there are ways around it for special cases like athletes so I don't know why they don't go that way.

    Spain is not a high taxing country and there are more ways around tax there than elsewhere.

    The fact is that he is getting paid far more to go to Halle and the other fact is that it's important that he appears in Britain to keep faith with his sponsors.

    These things are however too little known, and moreover no British Government seems willing to change this rule.



     
    #52
  3. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,594
    So a company could make a billion dollars in Britain, but pay one dollar in taxes in the Bahamas where it's domiciled???

    Not likely!!!



     
    #53
  4. cucio

    cucio Legend

    Joined:
    May 13, 2007
    Messages:
    6,913
    Location:
    Tonginchik
    VAT is 18% and income tax for more than €175,000 is 45%. I don't know about other countries, but it doesn't seem low to me.
     
    #54
  5. Fifth Set

    Fifth Set Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    860
    Location:
    California
    Of course it's not fair but the lawmakers you (figuratively) elected don't care. Sorry that you don't see it as socialism because that makes you part of the problem.

    Vote for more fiscally conservative politicians and they won't pass as many laws that suck every last nickel out of the successful to subsidize the unsuccessful.
     
    #55
  6. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,227
    Location:
    Puerto y Galgo....
    especially of they do it for merely smacking a fuzzy ball over a net!!!
     
    #56
  7. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,227
    Location:
    Puerto y Galgo....
    American income taxes during their most prosperous times (50's to 80's) reached +90% for those making over 1K...
     
    #57
  8. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,112
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    I'm a socialist, and I totally stand up for my belief that all people should have the right to education, healthcare, housing and jobs. All real wealth is produced by workers who make, distribute and sell every commodity in society, yet who has all the money? Not the workers. There's capitalism for you, a complete injustice and a proven failure time and time again, causing horrors without end. The number of deaths caused by starvation and war on this planet is simply horrific, and all done in the name of big business profit extracted at the expense of the majority.

    That's what the corporations do. There's been plenty of reports in the media lately of companies/corporations avoiding tax by being registered in tax havens and being let off from paying billions in tax. All tax havens and tax loopholes should be closed down worldwide with immediate effect, and the banks and means of production needs to nationalised under workers' control to bring order to the chaos. How can you plan society for the wants and needs of the majority if the means of production and the economy are left in the hands of big business?

    Like vernonbc said upthread, the big corporations will not be hit by this particular tax law from the British government, but hardworking professional sportspeople like Rafael Nadal will. Another divide and conquer rule because the vast majority of workers are on wages that are dwarfed by what the top professional sportspeople like Nadal get, and so won't have any sympathy.

    You mean that conservative politicians will transfer yet more money from the poorest to the richest while jobs are slashed and public services destroyed. This is what conservatism is, and what it stands for. It's a poison to human civilisation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2011
    #58
  9. DMan

    DMan Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Messages:
    922
    Absolutely despicable, and duplicitous of Nadal. But then, not surprising from the fakest guy in the history of the sport.

    He's a guy who is one of the richest ever. And claims it's such a "burden" on him to play in Queens, so he needs to accept a million dollar guarantee to play in Halle, and not be taxed so much! Pity poor Rafa!

    And wasn't Nadal the guy who *****ed to the USTA, saying 'all you are about is money!' Guess Nadal cares about it too!

    It's all coming down on him now. Can't handle the pressure.

    Just can't handle the pressure.
     
    #59
  10. Tammo

    Tammo Banned

    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
    Messages:
    3,875
    That is a smart decision by Rafa(or whoever made it for him) Why work hard at something and then give some of it to people who don't even know how tennis is played? It seems like Queens would want to have Rafa play, but their stupid rules forced him out. BTW does anyone know what % is given to the UK?
     
    #60
  11. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,227
    Location:
    Puerto y Galgo....
    i agree. because there is nothing intricate in charging the wealthy ones with 90% taxes like the great America of the 50's thru 80's...

    dude.. please "edumacate" yourself before speaking of systems you dont even know!
     
    #61
  12. Jeebs

    Jeebs Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    135
    Location:
    London
    Time spent is a bit arbitrary and you don't earn money simply by virtue of being in the country - otherwise there'd be tax liabilities arising even if a player came here on holiday. I think doing it by proportion of events is more logical.
     
    #62
  13. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    9,827
    Making a whole $1,000.00 huh? I always new you were so social commie pinky...
     
    #63
  14. OTMPut

    OTMPut Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,326
    Why only physical time spent?
    How about matches broadcast in UK but played in Paris? Rafa's watch is being beamed across UK for which he is earning endorsement income.

    If we really want to look at taxng ratinale one could end up constructing wierd argument.

    UK govt desperately needs money and in double quick time, in any means possible. Effect on long-term competitiveness, economy, who cares when you are in a deep sh1t hole.
     
    #64
  15. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,594
    They just legislated that rate to cope with the GFC, so now he may have a problem but not up until now.

    VAT is more of a problem for the lower classes and he can shop anywhere in the world for goodies.





     
    #65
  16. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,594
    Let's get realistic: how hard is is to wear a wrist watch or a swoosh?




     
    #66
  17. rommil

    rommil Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Messages:
    7,737
    Location:
    CT
    They start getting heavy after 5 vamoses.
     
    #67
  18. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,594
    Now, if the watch had an alarm that told him how to remain within the time limit between points, some here would be very happy.



     
    #68
  19. Murrayfan31

    Murrayfan31 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Messages:
    4,024
    Yep that watch is useless if Nadal refuses to use it between points.
     
    #69
  20. OTMPut

    OTMPut Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,326
    he still wouldn't care, would he?
     
    #70
  21. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,594
    Hook it up to some electrodes in his underwear and make it give him a shock if he doesn't pick within a certain time frame.
     
    #71
  22. AM95

    AM95 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    3,245
    not hard at all.

    but swinging the a racket does require a bit of effort ;).

    anyways, im a bit appalled by rafa's statements here. a lot of other top players play queens and don't complain. it makes it seem like rafa is only playing for the money now..which wouldn't really be a surprise.
     
    #72
  23. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,686

    It wouldn't be a surprise. I think he knows the he's coming up on the end of his career and is trying to cash in as much as possible before he calls it quits. He just should have kept all this money stuff to himself.
     
    #73
  24. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,594
    I think there's a bit of a campaign going on about the tax regime, so if London doesn't want to lose people and events they're going to have to figure a way around this, so his contribution is useful.
     
    #74
  25. Love Game

    Love Game Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    27,293
    Location:
    People's Republik of Kalifornia
    in whose lexicon is Labor right wing? :confused:

    otherwise, i agree ... rules s/b evenly and fairly applied across the board. if an accountant goes to work in UK from USA, is s/he able to expect to pay less than the current tax rate for his/her income level in the same way these billionaire boys club athletes are trying to do now?
     
    #75
  26. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,594
    Blair's New Labour was right wing both by self-description and by scholarly consensus.



     
    #76
  27. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,594
    If Murray had Nadal's deals he'd be a bit unhappy if he had to pay UK tax on promotional work he did in a low tax country.
     
    #77
  28. Love Game

    Love Game Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    27,293
    Location:
    People's Republik of Kalifornia
    whatever you say ... after all, it's your lexicon! [​IMG]

    i'm a populist. i believe all people s/b treated equal under the law. if ordinary people have to pay 50%, then the billionaires should pay 50% too, instead of being given waivers and multinational deals.
     
    #78
  29. Fifth Set

    Fifth Set Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    860
    Location:
    California
    Really? That's what you think conservative politicians do? Transfer money from people who don't have any and hand it to the wealthy? :confused: If the poor don't have any money, how do they hand it over to the government in the first place?

    If Britain's politicians are applying logic like this, it's no wonder they passed this law and are chasing professional athletes away!
     
    #79
  30. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,594
    It's got nothing to do with athletes and everything to do on cracking down on tax avoidance, and athletes got caught up.
     
    #80
  31. Love Game

    Love Game Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    27,293
    Location:
    People's Republik of Kalifornia
    but apparently there are a bunch of rich athletes who are threatening to boycott, and those threats have some lawmakers trying to figure out waivers and exceptions so that those wealthy athlets won't have to pay ... loopholes for the rich, IOW
     
    #81
  32. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,594
    Sporting events bring tourism and tourism brings tax exemptions.
     
    #82
  33. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,112
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Of course. That's the conservative modus operandi.

    Workers make all the commodities of society. Everything in your house, everything in the street, is made by workers. Yet how many of those workers are rich? The wealth is controlled by the bourgeois class, and workers get paid some money "in return for their labour", and those without a job are lucky to get some benefits. Attacking jobs and welfare, which is what conservatives do, means less money for ordinary people because of no wages and no welfare, and more money for the super-rich who take yet more money produced by their employees.

    Oh believe me, this current British government are ruthlessly capitalist and conservative, attacking jobs, welfare, education, healthcare etc. with wild abandon in order to keep their banker pals in profit.

    They are hammering successful sportspeople in individual sports, yet are soft as feathers on big multinational corporations, allowing them to use all sorts of tax havens and to dodge billions in tax.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2011
    #83
  34. cucio

    cucio Legend

    Joined:
    May 13, 2007
    Messages:
    6,913
    Location:
    Tonginchik
    Max rate has always been in the 43-51% band since I have memory of it (mid 90s).

    In fact, scratch that 45% I told you before, nowadays it is at an all-time-low (in recent history) of 43%. I am having to look this up because I have always been in the low-20s bracket, would be nice being in the situation of having to pay 43% :).

    Of course, big money can always find loopholes to save a big chunk of that 43%, but still it is a credit to Nadal that he hasn't taken the easy way out and set his fiscal residence in Monaco, Luxembourg or Andorra, as many other players have done. But maybe he has reached an agreement with his local tax office, I think law allows a certain leeway as a way of avoiding rich people to flee to tax havens. Which is why tax havens should retire. :evil:
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2011
    #84
  35. cucio

    cucio Legend

    Joined:
    May 13, 2007
    Messages:
    6,913
    Location:
    Tonginchik
    I didn't understand exactly the legal construct they are using, but in Spain Apple has sold truckloads of iPods, iPads, iBooks, etc. Yet somehow have managed to make the earnings from those sales tribute in Ireland at a much lower rate.

    Capitalism is royally ****ed up, the only thing big companies have to do to avoid taxes is buying themselves a small country and set themselves up some peachy taxation laws. And they want us to buy that BS about fair competition and trickle down crap? Yeah, sure, right.
     
    #85
  36. Love Game

    Love Game Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    27,293
    Location:
    People's Republik of Kalifornia
    tourism brings tax exemptions?

    where is that written?

    if that's some loophole made by lawmakers on the take to multinational corporations, then it's corruption, plain and simple ... smoke filled back rooms and all that. disgusting ... b/c the Everyman has no such access.
     
    #86
  37. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,227
    Location:
    Puerto y Galgo....
    you know nothing about me and you know jack shait about life in general!
     
    #87
  38. forthegame

    forthegame Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    3,495
    Location:
    Intercontinental
    TBH, I don't understand why you have to pay tax on earnings made entirely abroad. Galls me every time I thinkn about it.

    Even more ridiculous if you barely spend time here but have to pay, presumably because you're using British oxygen?
     
    #88
  39. Bhagi Katbamna

    Bhagi Katbamna Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,076
    ...and/or the lazy.
     
    #89
  40. Bhagi Katbamna

    Bhagi Katbamna Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,076
    It's socialism.
    Civilization is where the government does defense, police, fire, and roads and stays the hell out of the way like it was meant to do according to the US Constitution(in the US). Unfortuantely the govt. now takes the money of the 50% of the population that pays taxes and gives it to the 50% that doesn't pay taxes. Of course govt. knows that the 50% that don't pay taxes will partner with them to take a larger and larger portion of the money from the people that work and earn.
     
    #90
  41. Bhagi Katbamna

    Bhagi Katbamna Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,076
    Let me get this straight: you believe that conservative politicians take money from the poor(who don't have any--thus they are called the poor) and give it to people who have a lot of it.
    Let me ask a question: When there is a tax cut, is the government paying someone or letting someone keep more of the money they earn? I'm genuinely curious about your opinion on that.
     
    #91
  42. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,112
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    They are poor because there is no jobs on living wages and no welfare. And it's because public money isn't being used to create these jobs and a welfare state, that the super-rich pocket the cash for their profits. In Britain at the moment, jobs are being slashed, the welfare state is being attacked and those still with jobs are seeing their working and living standards come under attack as cuts are made. This is being done to secure the profits of big business and their banker pals, and ordinary people are paying for it by not only bailing them out with hundreds of billions in taxpayer handouts, but by seeing their living and working standards attacked and slashed.

    It depends what tax we're talking about. Conservatives are not anti-tax, but anti-tax on big business. They hammer the poorest with tax all the time, like with VAT in the UK at the moment, which was raised to 20% last year, done because the richest are trying to bump up their profits and make the poorest pay for capitalist failures with increased living costs. As I said before, workers who make, distribute and sell commodities make all the real wealth of society, yet they see very little money in their pockets.
     
    #92
  43. Fifth Set

    Fifth Set Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    860
    Location:
    California
    This is like some kind of Che Guevara inspired manifesto. We know how well that worked out for Cuba.

    I'm not really sure where to start with all the cliches and inaccuracies. The MoveOn bible is a voluminous one!

    Wealth is not "controlled" before it is created. All kinds of people are involved in making the "commodities of society." Some of them are more highly skilled, and hence highly paid, than others.

    The one socialist rallying cry that makes sense is the need for equality of opportunity. I'm all for that. Unfortunately, that's a pretty rare rallying cry.

    It's usually more like, "I don't care how things ended up the way they did. Personal responsibility, hard work and education? What's that? We want everyone to have the same amount of money. Long live Karl Marx!"
     
    #93
  44. winstonplum

    winstonplum Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,164
    It makes total sense. Rafa doesn't win these tournaments anyway. He's gassed from really trying to win MC, Madrid, Rome and RG. He likes to get a couple of rounds in on grass and then "loses" in the quarters to whomever he happens to meet. Next year, like this year, Rafa will go balls-out to win seven tournaments--the slams and the three clay MSs. IW, Miami, Montreal, and Cincy are all fine and good, but we Rafa fans delude ourself that he shows up at these tournaments with the same intensity that he does to the aforementioned seven.
     
    #94
  45. Bhagi Katbamna

    Bhagi Katbamna Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,076
    Who enacted the VAT tax? Did business or did the govt.? If they eliminated the VAT tax, do you think business or the rich would actually object?
    The ones that make real wealth are the enterprenuers. They take the risks involved in starting a business and possibly failing and losing money. They have to deal with idiotic goverment officials. They have to stay ahead of competition. The people who work for them don't actually create any wealth, they enhance the money making ability of the company they work for. They are there to make money for the boss. The boss pays them what the market will bear so that the company can make as much money as legally possible. If the company bends to idiotic notions of "living wages" and other socialist claptrap, they will not be able to compete and go out of business. Thus everyone will be making no money.
    The company doesn't exist to give benefits and wages to the workers, that is a side effect of the company making money.
    That is a law(not suggestion) of economics.
     
    #95
  46. Bhagi Katbamna

    Bhagi Katbamna Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,076
    Thank you for this. It even worked out better for everyone else because Bolivia caught and executed Che making the air smell fresher for everyone.
    You've summarized my thoughts about his nonsense far more succintly than I could.
     
    #96
  47. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14,579
    Unsurprised to see that Comrade Mustard is all over this thread ;)

    If it hasn't already been said, it should be noted that this law doesn't apply to team sports - which seems pretty unfair.


    The British PM is a BIG tennis fan. You can bet the farm on this law being changed.
     
    #97
  48. Jeebs

    Jeebs Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    135
    Location:
    London
    I think it does apply to team sports - one of the articles posted previously said that the government agreed to give an exemption for the Champions League final that was held in London and Tiger Woods was also moaning about it before the Ryder Cup.
     
    #98
  49. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,594
    The CIA was on hand and asked Washington for approval and then under CIA supervision they had Che summarily executed against all the laws of war. This is what you call civilization.



     
    #99
  50. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,594
    You have to pay tax on the money where it's earned, but then you should not have to pay tax again from your local authorities on that money. Its a straightforward, sensible and equitable policy.

    If Nadal spends a week in London and part of it is a promotional tour for Nike then he is working and earning income in a foreign country.




     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2011

Share This Page