Rafael Nadal-Sportsman of the year

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by CMM, Dec 28, 2009.

  1. Rippy

    Rippy Hall of Fame

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    Nadal wastes so much time, it's ridiculous that he could be called sportsman of the year. Sure, he's gracious in defeat (provided he hasn't handily played down his chances beforehand to rob his opponent of any credit by saying he isn't 100%), but there's other players who are gracious in defeat AND who play by the rules oncourt.
     
  2. FedSampras1

    FedSampras1 Rookie

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    How come a cheater can be Sportsman of the year??? :confused:
     
  3. Lsmkenpo

    Lsmkenpo Hall of Fame

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    He is not really the sportsman of the year this is just some writers choice, that doesn't really understand what sportsmanship is, he seems to think it is about what happens off the court.

    The true sportsmanship award "The Stefan Edberg Award" as voted by the players has not been annouced yet.
     
  4. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    I would rather have rafa as an arrogant, boring guy rather than taking advantage against the players by wasting time on his serving(and receiving) game.
     
  5. CMM

    CMM Legend

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    You want Rafa to be Roger? :-?
     
  6. Rippy

    Rippy Hall of Fame

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    Ignoring players' names, I think behaviour on the court is more important than behaviour off the court when it comes to sportsmanship.
     
  7. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

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    Yep, and for that award Nadal has never even been nominated, let alone won it. The player who wins that one every year is Federer.
     
  8. CMM

    CMM Legend

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    [​IMG]
     
  9. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Right...players should follow the rule to be fair for everyone whether if they win or lose. Winning by taking advantage of the of the opponent is not cool.
     
  10. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Anything EXCEPT cheating. Is that crystal clear???
     
  11. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    A player who constantly exploits the rules with time wasting,will not be voted the sportsman of the year.So no.
     
  12. CMM

    CMM Legend

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    Depends what you understand by cheating. If you're talking about his time wasting, I don't think so.
     
  13. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    uhmmmm, not according to him and his team. They stated he was "injured" as early as the beginning of the clay season.

    fact is, he was never injured. Additionally no player who gets banned from the game should ever be named "sportsman" of anything.

    To add, he continusouly cheats during matches by violating the time rule, and defended Gasquet for doping while dissing agassi when he came clean.
     
  14. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    Amazingly good call.

    Behaviour - un-umpired - on the court - is sportsmanship. Just because he knows he 'can get away with it' when it comes to time between points does not make it sporting, in fact, it's almost the opposite....
     
  15. reversef

    reversef Hall of Fame

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    Whaw!!!
    1) He was never injured :confused:
    2) He got banned from the game :confused:
    3) He criticized Agassi for coming clean.

    Congrats. You broke the record of the most stupid post.
     
  16. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    Then certainly it can't be Roger with his swearing, racket smashing, and crying now can it?

    Rules are only as important as you make them, talk to the ATP. Further more you are due at least one warning before it is considered breaking a rule.

    So no Nadal is not cheating, he is pushing it as far as the rule book will allow which is part of sports.

    Just like in the NBA and etc. What other real sports are going to take those acusations seriously, they would laugh at you.
     
  17. Rippy

    Rippy Hall of Fame

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    There's not even any real need to discuss whether Nadal is "cheating" or not. He is definitely time-wasting, and that isn't very sporting, in my opinion.
     
  18. reversef

    reversef Hall of Fame

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    Do you think that the umpires don't know their job? If a player cheats and the umpire can see it, the player gets punished. The fact is that Nadal doesn't cheat. The umpires know that they have to be human with this rule. It's there to avoid continuous time wasting.
     
  19. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    You're missing the point. Sportsmanship is about much more than pushing rules, exploiting rules. Sportsmanship is about being much better than the rules, not exploiting the rules for everything you can get - that's the opposite of sportsmanship.
     
  20. CMM

    CMM Legend

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    Good point. You should send an email to the writer.

    Yes, I believe he got banned because they knew that Fed wouldn't achieve his precious record while having Nadal around.

    The chair umpire is there to make sure that nobody cheats. He didn't diss Agassi for doping. He did it because he lied to the ATP and "coming clean" now affects tennis image.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
  21. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    I completely agree 100% that is in no shape or form is sportsman like, and the men and women that are most sportsman like have not and never will be nominated for SMOY because they aren't big names.

    Otherwise if we are just going to pick out of the top 5 then yes Nadal just as sportsman like if not more than the rest of the top 5.


    You miss the debate, the debate is who is 'most" spotsman like out of the top players.
     
  22. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    You are right, further more it is who is acting as best rolemodle, not acting out, living to higher standards etc.

    So who is your vote then?
     
  23. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    Probably still one of the gentlemen... Edberg or Rafter :)
     
  24. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    Actually, there were quite a few official matches in 2006 where Nadal served just at the right pace, not the fastest, but didn't take his sweet time before every serve. Anyway, you call it rituals, I call it cheating. Djokovic and Nadal are cheaters in that regard, and that's a fact, not an opinion.

    I'm sure if Nadal wanted to, he could work on that stuff and improve it. bouncing the ball with the racquet several times before bouncing it with the hand is unnecessary, for example. Nadal has started bouncing the ball more than Djokovic (racquet and hand bounces combined), and it annoys me as a viewer, but that's not important. What IS important is that it disturbs the pace of the match, and the opponent. Sure, it's up to the umpires to warn Djokovic and Rafa about this stuff, but as the world #2 and former #1 I expect Nadal to take a bit more responsibility and play fair. It's shouldn't be that hard.

    For this reason, along with Nadal's interviews in the 2nd half of the seasons, I can't think of Nadal is even a nominee for sportsman of the year, and I think I'm pretty objective here, as Federer is a nominne for me either (he has his issues as well). Like I said, for me it's a tie between Davydenko and Haas, possibly even Blake. All those guys have been near perfect this year.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
  25. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    They don't play anymore
     
  26. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    Of course you don't think so, you have proved you cannot and will not be objective. You love Nadal, and that's OK, but if you can't see he's wasting time and disturbing the pace of the match you're simply blind.
     
  27. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Voila,it was 2006,Nadal's major ticks were butt picking and sock adjusting,he didn't add many ball bounces,he didn't towel off after every point,he didn't adjust his hair after every point and he certainly wasn't as adamant as bottles as he was latter on. It's not tough to see that he has added more and more things to his routine,hence he wastes more time now than he did in the past. If we want a fair analysis we should see how much time Nadal took and takes on regular balls(not bp's or other key moments in a match,like in a tiebreak and such cause everybody slows down in those moments) in the 04'-09' period but that would be really,really boring but I can tell you right now,he has more rituals and takes up more time in 08'-09' than he does in the 04'-07' period.

    As I said before,as he got better and more pressure was put on him he made up more and more rituals,as the OCD sufferer that he is,to keep his calm in the big moments. Nadal thinks he needs to do a-b-c to keep his focus (and when a is butt picking and c or d is watter bottle arrangement,both embarrassing,you can see why I say he is OCD) which isn't bad on its own but when it is a to f,g,h then it really gets drown out and he goes over the time limit.

    I don't think Nadal said to himself "I know,I'll incorporate more and more routines to slow down the game,some of which are embarassing,just to throw off my opponent,annoy fans,umpires and everybody in the game". Unless someone penalises him REPEATEDLY(and by repeatedly I mean a few times per match for several matches-if the takes too much time). OCD'er don't let their habits go just like that,they need some help and outside intervention.

    The ONLY gesture which Nadal did let go was the sock thing but the rest he just kept piling on.

    Watch his match with Fed in 04' for example. He was a energic young guy who couldn't wait to serve and get out there but he calmed himself down with these things(tony said he didn't teach him any of these things he just told him to try and steady himself),these rituals until it blew out into a minor case of OCD(not that uncommon among athletes). It's one thing to have superstitions,habits but Nadal takes it to the next level by making sure that he does things his way on court,as I said before a-b-c and so on,even things that have nothing to do with tennis and which are embarrassing(butt picking and the bottles).

    This is Nadal(after he rearranges the bottles of course):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mEGDNHcHoU
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
  28. CMM

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    Calling it cheating is too much. I don't think it's such a big deal. If it were, they wouldn't be allowed to do it. I don't think this makes Rafa's or Djoko's matches less entertaining. Tennis players are not machines and it seems that the chair umpires do understand that. As well as James Blake, who says that this is not bothering for him, because he knows that every player is different.
    And if the rule is being broken over and over again, this means the rule is not good enough and needs to be changed.
     
  29. Rippy

    Rippy Hall of Fame

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    OK... so you would agree, as there are quite a lot of murders taking place, that the law against murder is not good enough and needs to be changed?
     
  30. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    You just owned him badly.
     
  31. CMM

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    The rules of tennis have to be in favor of the players and if taking 5-10 extra seconds helps them to play better, so be it.
     
  32. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    You are trying to justify Nadal's habbits with the OCD excuse. If he can't obey the rules (or anyone else for that matter), he should be punished for it. The rules are there, and Nadal is breaking them, no matter what the reason is. For that reason alone he is not worthy of sportsman of the year, and that is that.
     
  33. CMM

    CMM Legend

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    He can't own him, because "he" is a "she".
     
  34. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    It doesn't help most players, it disturbs their pace. With most players it isn't a problem because they don't waste time (or at least not more than what's allowed). Nadal and Djokovic are the biggest time wasters in the ATP tour (as far as I know). Had Federer been the big time waster, I'm sure you'd be all over him instead of "wanting to help the players play better".

    Apparently it also annoys the ESPN commentators as they put a timer clock in Nadal matches these days.
     
  35. Rippy

    Rippy Hall of Fame

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    Heh, I like how you deny the gender, but not the owning. :p
     
  36. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    Point is, you got owned :)
     
  37. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

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    Totally, what's amazing is how they say players need time to rest after long rallies and so on, that is so much BS. Why doesn't Federer need time to rest then? He serves at the same pace after every single point, every one.
     
  38. CMM

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    Had Federer been the time waster, you and everybody else wouldn't make such a big deal out of this.
     
  39. CMM

    CMM Legend

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    Great. Now I know how Federer feels.
     
  40. Rippy

    Rippy Hall of Fame

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    Why do you believe that?
     
  41. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    You're equating murder to stretching the time limit between serves?

    Your analogy is weak.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
  42. Rippy

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    It's not the "murder/time limit" that was the focus of the analogy, rather that I disagreed with the notion that just because a rule is broken, it means it should be altered. I could have used any example of a rule which has a purpose.
     
  43. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    I didn't say he should be voted by all,I said that to me he had the most sporting moment of the year in AO and the way he handled himself after the whole injury ordeal,not to mention the fact that he has always stayed to sign autographs even after humiliations and he was actually very nice to the guy who came on court in USO,most players would have been scared. But whatever,I digress.

    Nadal has developed OCD over the years. It's pretty clear by now. Since he suffers from this and it slows the game down because of his quirks,to the point of breaking the time rule,someone(preferably the umpire) should enforce it by penalizing him. But they rarely do and it isn't just Nadal's case. The ATP doesn't seem to give a crap about this "rule" anymore. That's the truth. And it's not like it should be negotiable. There are other guys who go maybe 5 seconds,not 10-15 like Nadal,over the clock but they don't get sanctioned. If we count the seconds after the point is over,a lot of the players in the top30 get close to 30 seconds. When was the last time you saw a top player get warned because he was taking too much time?
     
  44. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    The rule is not a fundamental rule in tennis as a sport.

    It's a rule designed for televised tennis and professional tennis, in general.

    Other rules such as when a ball is in or out, how to keep score, etc. are fundamental across the world to keep the sport uniform.

    Time between serving in different parts of the world, across different competitive leagues, etc. is different because it is not a uniform or fundamental part of tennis's rules.

    Murder, as far as I know, is uniformly illegal across the world- unlike many laws which differ around the world.

    Your analogy was weak and, go ahead, use another rule. Make your point.
     
  45. Rippy

    Rippy Hall of Fame

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    Whether it's fundamental or not is irrelevant. :-? I'm afraid I really don't follow.

    As I said, just because a rule is routinely broken does NOT mean that the rule is not fit for purpose and should be discarded - I don't feel another example will illustrate that any clearer.
     
  46. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    This I agree with 100%.

    The last time was actually Djokovic vs. Nadal in Cincy. Other than that, not many. I usually watch the top guys, and most are pretty quick. DP has a time issue as well, and Verdasco from time to time. Murray is OK I think, Fed is super quick (I think even the biggest Fed hater would agree), Roddick is quick, Davy has a long service motion but not much around it so it's OK.
     
  47. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    LOL what is this equating murder with exploiting a timerule?:confused::mrgreen:

    But other than that there is really no point arguing.There is a rule,a rule is a rule and when exploiting a rule at the expense of your opponent that is not sportmanship but the opposite.This is an ATP rule so it can't get more official rule than that,no matter the rules of the minor leagues all over the world.
    All rules are rules,and all rule-breaking is rule breaking.

    So definitely not sportsman of the year.

    The players are the ones voting,so no matter what the Nadal fans,the Nadal fan club "journalists" and posters here say,the time wasting IS important to the players and can't see him winning any time soon this.

    I think Santoro would be much better for this award.
     
  48. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    ^^ I agree with what you're saying.

    If it's true that Nadal never even got nominated for the ATP Sportsmanship Award, I think it's a shame.
     
  49. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    I have a feeling he might get nominated this year. .Nadal did well to handle the adversities he faced this year like Roger did last year(though I do consider Roger to be much more of a fair guy on court ).He was of course incredibly nice after the AO.So I suppose they'll put him up there.

    I would personally take Blake or if its among the top guys-DP overall.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009

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