Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by Flat Top, Nov 5, 2011.
I think their burgers are much better than McD's.
That claim might be true, but I cannot verify it at the link given. Where can I find lists of all career-best ITF junior rankings for pro players, or lists of the year-end junior ITF top 5 or top 10 for each year, etc.?
There is a big difference between looking up the top 10 ATP players and the top 100. If you want to claim your kid will be top 10, then a comparison with the current top 10 might be best. If we want to make a living at tennis and be in the top 100, then top 100 is the best comparison.
If I take the bottom 20 from the ATP top 100, I can look at their Personal tab on their ATP page and find nothing about junior accomplishments for #81 and #82. But I don't know what the omission means. If I start going the other direction, #80 (Nicholas Mahut) won junior Wimbledon.
Well right now im 13 and i loved tennis since i was pretty young.
Also im a straight A student and i play 7 hours a day besides sunday. Got lessons for a while but never really liked the pace they teached at so i decided to teach my self for 3 years. But im still not perfect but my coach thought i was in the 4.5 - 5.0 range.
Wow, how do you find 7 hrs in a day to play tennis?
Sounds like your going to be a life time player.
Way to go on the grades!
12 of top 50 ATP were top ten ITF. Fish highest ITF rank was #14. Blake, Isner, Querrey were late bloomers. On another note, why is the USTA giving so much money to these kids at their training centers? Some of their parents don't need the money. Because they won a gold ball in the 12's? That means nothing. I know a kid 16 years old, very athletic, 6'5", serves 125 ranked about 50 nationally. Come on PMac. Give that kid some money for training.
He's getting zilch money and limited training.
Keep doin what your doin Brad.NO ONE on this site has EVER produced a money making pro.Bottom line,case closed!
Yes, you are right. No one and that is also including Brad.
I think PMac is doing a great job he has stated he has a 10 yr plan to develop the next American player that will "compete" at the top . Now all you smart guys do the math he will make a lot of $$$ over 10yrs on salary and bonus , lets see thats right about his retirement age ,,,,This is what I call a great plan for tennis in America.
Lets say I am the dad ,,I am not , now lets look at who you want to attack and close doors on , "the kid" ,, is your last name Sandusky ?
Cause your tone is to hurt a child , that is creepy where your rage is aimed !
How is your girl doing ? Great I hope , keep her working hard and get her Rafas book she will love it .
I agree. That post was really uncalled for.
We should all be wishing DB well and hoping that he succeeds.
What do you expect from a guy who says the board is having it's intelligence "insulted" LOL , He in turn and attacks and insults a 15 yr old with In and Out burgers.
Not sure if you are deliberately missing the point in post after post. One last try.
A study of the top 100 players was done. Pretty much all of them had accomplished ONE OR MORE of the following as juniors:
1. Been ranked top 5 ITF
2. Won an Orange Bowl
3. Won a Jr. Slam
4. Been top ranked in 18s in their countries.
The point is that all the top pros were prodigies by age 15-16, they did not appear out of no where. Fish made it to 14 ITF, while also starring in basketball at Boca Prep, he made it to the quarters of a Jr. Slam. He was considered more talented than Roddick who won a ton in juniors.
This is not a hard concept. The top pros went through the front door, they did not sneak around to men's opens and bypass the big junior tournaments. It makes no sense to take a back door route then playing the top 18s in your country, then ITFs, Orange Bowls, Jr. Slams is what works. It worked for Roddick and Fish, Isner was a top ranked 18. Donald Young played the big juniors. Blake went to college. Ryan Sweeting was a top American junior.
So all the American top 100 did it one way....and it does not work?? Neither top 18 USTAs or going to college first is a good idea....when it is the route taken by every current top 100 American?
Was at a few tournys lately called qualifiers and talked with more then 4 or 5 players all ranked top in the USA 18's about 4 years ago ,, now that they have completed college they informed me they were gonna be giving it a shot at going pro over the next 2 years and this was a good starting point .
My question after 4 years of college they are to stupid to figure out their on the wrong path because that DB kid was attempting the same thing at the same tourney?
Lets put an end to this myth some posters are spewing that an American would need to bypass juniors and come in through the back door to be a top 100 pro. This nonsense that neither top USTA 18s nor college work. That an American would need to come out of nowhere.
8 Fish, Mardy (USA) Top junior
14 Roddick, Andy (USA) Won a ton as a junior
18 Isner, John (USA) Top junior and college champ
39 Young, Donald (USA) Ruled the juniors
59 Blake, James (USA) College ace
72 Sweeting, Ryan (USA) Won Jr. Slam, top junior
79 Harrison, Ryan (USA) beating grown men at age 11 in Opens, top junior
93 Querrey, Sam (USA) Won many top junior tournaments.
99 Russell, Michael (USA) Ranked #1 in U.S. Boys' 18-Under in 1996
Stop already, nothing about the American system holds anyone back. These guys rose to the level of their talents....and came in through the FRONT door, using the American tennis junior system just fine. They augmented the USTAs with other tournaments and training....just like DB or any American boy could do.
If our best athletes played tennis and not basketball and football we would have 30 of the top 100 instead of 9.
Please read the question and explain what these FRESH GRADUATES ARE DOING ???
My question after 4 years of college they are to stupid to figure out their on the wrong path because that DB kid was attempting the same thing at the same tourney? THESE GUYS DID THE USTA UP UNTIL 18 WENT TO SCHOOL AND ARE NOW COMPETING IN THE SAME TOURNEYS AS THE YOUNG 15 YEAR OLD ""WHY""?
At least they have some college credits or maybe even graduated. In the end the overwhelming odds are that they and DB will have to find a way to make a living and it will not be playing tennis.
If I had a tennis playing son, the only way I would even let the pro thought cross my mind was if his results were historic and epic. At age 14 he would have to be going to the finals in the Herr 16s. At age 15 he would have to be having sponsors drooling over him. Approaching 16 he would have to be good enough to win the Orange Bowl 18s.
And even then it would be a huge gamble. But if my son was just an excellent player but not a scary prodigy? College tennis, all day long, no brainer.
You want the real answer? They are young guys with no sense, just like I was at that age. The odds of any of them, DB or the college guys, ever making a real living in tennis, which means breaking the top 80, is beyond tiny.
They are young, they are dreamers, just like we were. I was dumb as a rock at age 15-25, and so are they. The odds would be better for them to simply play the Lotto.
They play those Qualies because they can not accept that they will have to work behind a desk until they are 70 years old, or feed balls to old ladies at the park. So they postpone real life a while longer.
Maybe they were home schooled . Just kidding TCF!
Baseball as a pitcher.... big yes,
or even basketball would be a wiser investment for DB if the dad really wants to see $ signs.
Odds are better.
That's a fair and honest answer and I agree with most of it if not all , the question that most sponser ask is "why is he not playing more" ? Are answer as a team is protect till he is ready which is coming to pass .
I would go football better arm for that plus that's what is done on off days !
^How many days off per month does Deiton take?^
With all due respect, you will not know if/when he is ready until he competes in Herrs, Orange Bowls, Jr. Slams, top ITFs. Tennis is very simple, lots of kids look great in hitting sessions and videos. But all that matters is who can win the big tournaments....both in juniors and in the pros.
My advice would be to stop dancing and start playing, biggest stages possible, month after month. If he is one of the rare kids with pro level talent, find that out on court. If he is not, find that out and head for college.
He can be the biggest, baddest, best trained, most hitting sessions with pros boy on the planet....but all that matters is if he can win big tournaments.
I had the opportunity to watch Ronnie Schneider (sp?) play in a L2 Thanksgiving weekend. I was (pleasantly) surprised to see him take the 16s at Kalamazoo last year. He really puts a great deal of athleticism and energy into his matchplay. Not a big fella at all.
Is a guy like him good enough to play the Herr? I see Kozlov, Lin, Brymer, Redlicki in the main draw. How about DB? Good enough to get into the main draw? Qualifying?
The attempt of 2 per week .
I don't think off of ranking , he would have to qualify , are those guys playing the 18's ?
Remember this kid can play Herr, OB ,Kzoo. 18's for the next 3 yrs plenty of time to fill out and then do what "needs" to be done .
Our goal is next year this time he is 185lbs 6'5 and moving like a jack-rabbit.
It's a process we are willing to be patient with to make it happen .
Okay, then I misunderstood. I thought he was going to try the pros very soon. Now I see he plans on juniors for the next 3 years.
I would not be so concerned with height and weight and measuring this and that....again, all that matters is who can win the big tournaments. Less Rocky movie training, more trying to get into and win a Jr. Slam.
And not to be mean....but moving like a jack rabbit in a year? If you pull that off you deserve coach of the century honors. The kid can smack the ball, but no one has ever confused him with Monfils.
In 1 year if the growing has stopped he will be moving better then Mofils plus I don't think Mofis moves well he is fast but I like Federers movement and that is what the blueprint should be for any junior .
The juniors will be played if they fit in but are not neccesary for what the goal is .
Oh boy. Unsubscribe. :???:
This is where you lose people, better than Monfils? In a year??
Coach, you need to be realistic with player strengths. Davenport was never going to be the best mover.
This boy has lumbering, slow legs. They are not naturally bouncy. So you design his game to use his strong forehand and serve. Teach him anticipation skills. But you don't try to pretend he is a great mover.
And never, ever, ever use his name in the same sentence as Monfils as far as movement....that is wrong on so many levels.
You pick a video where he is hitting up the middle ,, go pull the video of him doing drills with Filip and Stroble at IMG , the title is getting ready for the job ahead or something like that and don't worry Federer is the blueprint never want to shoot for 2nd best , say Mofis
To quote John McEnroe...you can not be serious. Monfils at 50 will still be a better mover than DB will be in his 20s. You are talking about two entirely different level of athlete.
Shawn Bradley vs Kobe.
DB has few years to play like this
tsonga VS monfils at ITF juniors when they were around 17
how do they play vs now, ( strokes movement etc...)
How in the world does Monfils slide on a hard court like that?
Johnny Mac also said CHALK FLEW UP!
Perhaps something like this in mind?
Yup. Had he said the kid would some day play like DelP, great. But saying he will be a better mover than Monfils, in a year, that is crazy talk.
Dad says he will do it in a year. In a year be a better mover than Monfils is now.
If coach can pull that off I will consider him a movement coaching god.
delpo sucked at 15 wow, DB has smother strokes at 15
he will not be a mover like Monfils now in one year. Kid is not build for speed, he is lanky
Normally I would agree with you. However a 6'5" white basketball player just isn't going to be anything special at any level including high school.
Now a 6'5" lanky first basemen that can stretch out or a pitcher with a lot of whip coming from the arm and lower leg now you've got something.
Brad listen to tennis5, if not me. I'm telling you man, the kid could be a great pitcher or first basemen.
Start putting in the time and hours now. Look for a good club program to help you catch him up and sky's the limit. He could pitch well into his late 30s or even early 40s.
Ummmm......maybe he had the flu that day, maybe his shoulder hurt....but Delpo was an animal in juniors, just like all the top pros were. He blew up around age 15-16, just like every top pro did. Wikipedia:
"As a junior in 2002, del Potro won the Orange Bowl 14s title, beating Marin Čilić en route to a 6–2, 7–6(5) victory over Pavel Tchekov in the final. In May 2004, del Potro won his first senior match, at the age of 15, at the ITF Circuit event in Buenos Aires by defeating Matias Niemiz. He then went on to lose in three sets to Sebastián Decoud in the second round. His next victory came over five months later against the Chilean Alvaro Loyola in a tournament in Anto***asta. Later that year, del Potro reached the quarterfinals of the ITF Circuit event in Campinas, Brazil; recording victories over Henrique Mello and Alessandro Camarco. Del Potro won two more matches before the end of the year and saw his world ranking rise from no. 1441 in August to no. 1077 in November. He also reached the finals in the Argentina Cup and Campionati Internazionali D'Italia Junior tournaments.
Del Potro reached his first final of the ITF Junior Circuit on 11 January 2005, the Copa del Cafe (Coffee Bowl) - Junior ITF Tournament in Costa Rica, which he lost to Robin Haase in three sets. He was involved in a dispute with the umpire during this match, who decided to stop the play because of rain, which del Potro believed favoured Haase. Because of the rain delays, the final set had to be played indoors; this was the first time the indoor courts had been used in the 44-year history of the youth tournament.
At the age of 16, del Potro reached his first senior singles final at the Futures tournament in Berimbau Naucalpan, Mexico, where he lost to Darko Madjarovski 6–3, 4–6, 4–6. He then went on to win consecutive titles at two Future ITF Circuit events in Santiago, Chile, including the 26th International Junior tournament. In the first tournament, he beat Jorge Aguilar, 6–4, 7–6(6), and in the second, he did not drop a set in the whole tournament and defeated Thiago Alves, 6–1, 6–1, in the final, a player ranked more than 400 places higher at the time. He won his third title in his home country by defeating Damian Patriarca, who forfeited the match, at the ITF Circuit event in Buenos Aires.
Del Potro turned professional after the Italy F17 event in Bassano, and in his first professional tournament, the Lines Trophy in Reggio Emilia, he reached the semifinals, where he lost to countryman Martín Vassallo Argüello in three sets. Two tournaments later, he reached the final of the Credicard Citi MasterCard Tennis Cup in Campos do Jordão, Brazil, where he lost to André Sá, 4–6, 4–6. After turning 17, he won the Montevideo Challenger by defeating Boris Pašanski in the final in three sets. That same year, he failed in his first attempt to qualify for his first Grand Slam, at the US Open, losing in the first round to Paraguayan Ramón Delgado. Throughout 2005, del Potro jumped over 900 positions to finish with a world ranking of no. 158, largely due to winning three Futures tournaments. He was the youngest player to finish in the year-end top 200."
Although it may not seem like it, there are plenty of 6'5"-ish white NBA players. Some are even all-stars. Basketball has role players, and you don't have to be the "stud" at every level to make an NBA team. Remember, just make a roster and you've got $500k a year minimum salary, a contract, and all-expenses - medical, training, travel, coaching, etc, etc paid. If we're just talking about ROI and money - the odds are certainly better than tennis.
As far as a first baseman, you forgot to talk about hitting - by far the more sought after skill and by far the more difficult. Pitching - sure, you don't have to hit, just have to have that "golden arm" and not get injured. I think making as a pitcher or a quarterback in football are as hard as tennis - just because of the small numbers.
Well the fact is the odds of him being a great pitcher or first baseman and catching up to guys training since age 5 is beyond tiny. LIke BMC said, the hitting would eliminate anything but pitching. Yet still better odds than making a living playing tennis.
His smart move is to land the best scholarship he can, network, then dabble in futures some day.
You might as well tell him to go jump off a bridge...
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