Raising a tennis playing kid

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by Flat Top, Nov 5, 2011.

  1. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    Petes junior career was Ok at best. How did he do in the pro's since he never won a Grand Slam Jr. or Ed Hurr or Orange Bowl ? He must have had a laughable career.
     
    #51
  2. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Agree. Winning a sectional is no big deal..
    My son has won them, and he is no future pro...

    But, I looked this up, and it appears that DB won the whole Nike tournament.
    http://www.nikejuniortour.com/newsi...photo&country=usa&cyear=2008&imgid=1222755219

    If so, that would be a big deal.

    Anyone know who won the 12's Nike Junior Tournament? Am I correct, is it DB?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
    #52
  3. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    #53
  4. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    LOL! If I were you, I'd quit while I'm ahead and save myself further embarrassment...

    And anybody who says that winning the Socal Sectional Championships is "no big deal" is either a very achieved player, or more likely in your case - has no idea what real tennis is about :-?.
     
    #54
  5. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    DB won the Nike national over kids who won their sections (16 total sections). He was qualified to represent the USA at the international but the family turned down the invitation.
     
    #55
  6. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    where is tball2day ? did he forget to do his homework before opening mouth ?


    - no nationals of any level, ever.
     
    #56
  7. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    ........................
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
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  8. ChiefAce

    ChiefAce Semi-Pro

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    2008

    http://www.tennisinformation.com/tourny/5/1/8/1/8/1/1/draw-4-mf.asp
     
    #58
  9. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    ..................
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
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  10. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Pete played up a lot. Sometimes two age groups.
     
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  11. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    First, you stated that a sectional is a Level 3, it is not....

    It is a level 5, and only open to kids in that section....

    ( that is a very important distinction....).

    Winning a sectional is no big deal... because you are not dealing with
    ALL THE BEST KIDS IN THE COUNTRY WHO ARE AT A LEVEL 1.


    Level 3 is open to all kids across the nation, but that being said, L3 are not that strong either. L3 are also pretty low on the totem pole of points.
    My son has won a L3, and except for two other kids, it was a weak draw...


    ( Level 1 - Winter Nationals, Easter Bowl, Zoo....
    that is where the best kids are and winning a L1 there is impressive and a wow and a big deal....,
    and the points here are huge, and will propel you to the top of the USTA list.)
    If my son ever won anything like this.... then yes, I would be on this board
    and I would be bragging about my son like DB's dad brags about DB.

    Once again, on this board, there is sarcasm, and expressions are written with rancor.
    It is hard to share information when there is so much belittlement.

    I offer just the facts about the distinctions between the levels,
    and in I get nasty barbs in return.

    I said this before, and I will repeat it, other boards treat everyone who has a different opinion with respect,
    and if they disagree......... back up their debate with factual information so that it is a learning experience for all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
    #61
  12. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    #62
  13. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    Pete was one of the top juniors at age 12/13. By his own account, his coaches and his competitors, Pete was beating everyone early in his Junior career, even playing up. But, as we all know, he took a few years to change his backhand. He talks in his biography and in interviews about how hard to was to go from the top of the juniors and lose against guys he beat regularly (Agassi, Chang, etc). He sacrificed many junior wins for a long term change.
     
    #63
  14. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    Our Sectional Championships is a national L3. Check your facts before you "fyi" nonsense.
     
    #64
  15. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    Before you kill each other. Each section has 12 tournaments with National ranking points per year - 8 - L5, 3 - L4, 1 - L3. It seems this particular tournament was L3. But they are not all L3s or L5s.
     
    #65
  16. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Well despite what levels ay which he has actually won, BB has developed an excellent junior player. But he has not developed any professional players as of yet, nor has anyone else on this board.

    So until one of us does, we should not say our method is better than anyone elses.
     
    #66
  17. mojojojo

    mojojojo Rookie

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    .................
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
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  18. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Thanks Mojojojo for jumping in with some factual information.

    And in regards to your last paragraph, I do agree.

    First, congrats to your child on a L1 win.

    I did say my comment about bragging on the internet tongue in cheek,
    as the probability of my son winning an L1 is as likely as our country having no deficit.

    But, while you brought that up, it is a good opportunity to segue ( yes, I usually spell that segway) to another topic..

    As I have said in the past, I am not a big fan of posting videos of your child on You Tube,
    or sharing information about children on the internet.

    I pulled the following off a blog from an article entitled:

    Parents Responsibilities to their Children’s Privacy Online

    We are parents who once took seriously the warnings to keep our personal details, even our real names, off the Internet…yet now we are a generation of parents who create YouTube channels on behalf of our small children, gladly sharing their real full names and locations, in the hopes of having their singing talents discovered.

    I feel like some bloggers forget that their children are actual real live people who will one day grow up and desire privacy. People who will want to own the choice as to what is shared about them online, what they disclose.
    Will my children, years from now, want this information on the Internet?
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
    #68
  19. 10schick

    10schick Rookie

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    Hilarious. 28 seconds. That's all you could get out of Nick? You call that hanging out? :-|
     
    #69
  20. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    Statements in bold are not correct.
     
    #70
  21. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    MJ, I respect your opinion, but you are incorrect on this one. Socal Sectional Championships are L1 for sectional rankings and carries L3 national ranking points. The points awarded to the champion of a National L3 is currently 220 points (200 for 2012 as shown in table below).

    http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/PPRTables01_01_2012.pdf

    Now look at the the national record of this year's winner below (Sectional Championships is in June). It clearly shows he got 220 points with all SigW bonus points, just like he would have had he won a regional level 3. BTW, if you look at his schedule closely, you will see that this kid travels the country to play almost exclusively ITF and national events. Obviously not "no big deal" to him and his family.

    http://tennislink.usta.com/Tourname...1040&p=2035&PlayerID=aDsVPLlK82/5iYviVWe9vQ==

    And last FYI, the designated events in Socal do include tournaments offering national L4 and L5 points.
     
    #71
  22. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    From a factual standpoint you are clearly wrong. Each section has one sectional tournament per year that awards the same number of national points as a Level 3 national. This is a link to the SoCal tournament where it states this fact.

    https://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/TournamentHome/Tournament.aspx?T=103020

    As far as the opinion part of your post let’s look at the top 8 seeds from the boys 16s draw of the SoCal Sectional

    1. Garcia, Gregory 5 star junior (#46)

    2. Hewko, Abraham 5 star junior (#43)

    3. Dawson, Drew blue chip sophomore (#30)

    4. Menichella, Stefan 5 star junior (#39)

    5. Bellamy, Robbie 5 star junior (#41)

    6. Smith, Logan blue chip freshman (#2)

    7. Chiu, William 4 star junior ( #95)

    8. Kim, Edward 4 star senior (#183)



    National Level 3 tournament the same month

    https://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/TournamentHome/Tournament.aspx?T=94535

    Top 8 seeds

    1. Garay, Christian blue chip sophomore #20

    2. Benton, Wood 5 star sophomore #45

    3. Teague, Dallas 3 star junior #210

    4. Evertsen, Parker 4 star junior #186

    5. Showers, Will 5 star sophomore #34

    6. Harris, Christian 4 star junior #104

    7. Yates, Trey 5 star sophomore #61

    8. Gotkowski, Trevor 3 star junior #212



    Go ahead and make your case as to why the SoCal sectional tournament is easier than the National Level 3.
     
    #72
  23. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Perhaps, this is why the USTA is standardizing all the sections with the new 2012 point tables?
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
    #73
  24. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    repeat message.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
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  25. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    repeat message.
     
    #75
  26. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    This national Level 3 that you picked out is the regional L3 from July 9th.
    As has been discussed, at great length, on this board, that if you want junior to earn points aging up - this is one of the best options.
    The July 9th L3 is so weak as they increased the number of sites for that tournament, and it is one that everyone plays up on.

    In particular, of the L3 July 9th tournaments Boy 16's,
    this one was one of the weaker ones.

    We also spoke at great length, that the good thing about the 2012 changes is that every section would be under the same point system.
    I had pointed out, in previous posts, that some juniors had higher national points (all from their sectionals) than other kids who played the nationals, and that each section did not seem to have the same point system.

    I personally have exhausted this subject.

    Good luck to DB in his sectional quest.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
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  27. mojojojo

    mojojojo Rookie

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    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
    #77
  28. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    You can go to Ed Hurr website and see he won ITF double title against the Koreans in 08 with a kid from Australia.
     
    #78
  29. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    Should they have videotaped all 8 days they were there ? Should they have taped dinner the 3 nights at Nicks house ? Tottaaaallly Hilarious

    heres 34 more seconds enjoy
    http://youtu.be/0CQm-PYOLAc

    your poor husband
     
    #79
  30. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    You offer just the (wrong) facts but when presented with (correct and documented) factual information you decide you have exhausted the subject.

    All sections have awarded the same number of national points for their sectional tournament. This has not changed. Each section has one tournament per year that awards national points as a L3 National. This has not changed. So far your facts have been wrong twice.

    You make the claim that winning a SoCal Sectional is No Big Deal and that L3 national have entrants from all over the country and are obviously more difficult. Then when presented with the actual entries from a L3 National you say that the L3 tournaments are weak. Which is it?

    Winning a SoCal sectional is a very big deal.
     
    #80
  31. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    So just to be clear. In one field we have 4 five star juniors all TRN ranked in the top 50. In the other field we have no five star juniors or any ranked inside the top 100. Do you continue to believe that because they are not from “all over the country” the higher ranked players make the sectional tournament easier?
     
    #81
  32. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    It's often not WHAT is said here that triggers the belittlement, it's HOW it is said. That's the beauty (and the beast) about forums as we often read numerous opinions from users with different command levels of the English language which often ignites a volcanic reaction.

    Anyway, if my kid were to win an L1 or a national, I would not be on this board tooting my horn about his/her accomplishments. Why? When asked why he just flips the ball to the official after a touchdown instead of doing the moonwalk, Barry Sanders responded with... act like you've been there a thousand times.
     
    #82
  33. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Ouch, that's unfair.
    Nick is a busy man who wakes up early. He's got a business to run, make time for the gym, he's got several ex-wives. Got to talk to the people at Prince, Polo and UnderArmor. Cut some slack here. He's clearly making time for some of the children.
     
    #83
  34. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    Hey JM, I think we should all be thankful actually :)... Hope all is well with you in the Nordic world.
     
    #84
  35. mojojojo

    mojojojo Rookie

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    .........................
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
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  36. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    1) JM was referencing the Regional Level 3 in the same month as our Sectionals this year.

    2) Perhaps in your days, but I would argue that the SoCal Sectionals is now clearly tougher than a Regional Level 3. Remember the goal of the USTA with the Regionals is to reduce travel, and they have succeeded for the most part. Kids do not "come over all the country" to play a Regional. In fact, they don't even have to go out of state in the western US.

    3) This is an old myth. The Sectionals winner I referenced this year only plays enough local events to get endorsement. He practicall NEVER faces the typical local kid playing his age group. Sectionals is on his schedule between ITF/National events. And many of the top guys either play up or save themselves for national competition.
     
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  37. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    He certainly hits a nice ball BB. His backhand has improved since the video you posted a year ago. Its always fun to see some of the possible influences in kid's strokes. With him I see a little of Nadal's forehand follow through and Roddick's back hand.

    Going forward it will be things like movement, strategy, staying free of injuries that determine how far he goes.
     
    #87
  38. treeman10

    treeman10 Semi-Pro

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    --------------------
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
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  39. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    I don't completely disagree, MOST of the kids are the same. The reason I believe Sectionals is harder is the fact that unlike the Regionals, you get the real-deal top kids all of a sudden show up in the draw of their age group. As you may know, Socal Sectionals is the oldest tournament in the United States and winning it is sort of a rights of passage to them.

    BTW, I was referencing the B14 winner, not Dennis in the 18's. But if you check both of these guys' schedules, you'll see that national L3's are clearly not part of the plan.

    Quick check in this year's Sectionals B14 draw: three Regionals winners, three finalists, a couple of semi-finalists, and two finalists in 16's. None of them made the finals.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2011
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  40. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    .........................
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
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  41. Tennis_Bum

    Tennis_Bum Professional

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    Good luck Brad, I'll keep an eye out for your kid on the tour. Can you squeeze in a WC at Indian Wells? I don't know about you, but a backhand that reminds me of Roddick's isn't something that I want to have. It's just me though. Keep posting here from time to time to tell us how the kid is doing. We are really interested because it's cool to see if the kid can make it on the ATP event, especially he's a local kid.
     
    #91
  42. Frankenstine

    Frankenstine New User

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    Let him play for however long as he wants.

    Do not enroll him in an academy. Please. That's a year of college tuition or more per year that you're throwing away.
     
    #92
  43. ChiefAce

    ChiefAce Semi-Pro

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    His grip structure and backswing are very different from Roddick, maybe it's the somewhat stiff preparation that makes it look that way to you visually? I'm more concerned with his non dominant arm on the forehand, but I'm sure they already discussed some of that with him as they use Dartfish extensively at the academy. IMO his backhand is more like Nadal at least at contact in that he hits with two straight arms like both Agassi and Nadal. The backhand to me has been better with this kid for years than the forehand.
     
    #93
  44. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    I personally have exhausted the subject as I can pull up different player records
    and show the national points received for sectionals are different than the national points received from my son’s sectional..
    But, that would involve posting someone’s record on the internet, and I not comfortable doing that, nor do I think that is right.

    It has been said many times before on this board, that it is well known that different regionals (L3) are weaker than others.

    In terms of gaining national points by moving up age groups,
    it has been advised on this board that juniors play zonals and the July 9th regionals.
    The July 9th regionals are recommended as there are more locations, thus more players,
    therefore it is a weaker tournament, and you can get more wins and more points.

    You choose the July 9th tournament as your example.
    I understand you wish to prove me wrong, and show me that the SoCal sectional is stronger that the L3 national,
    by putting up the names of the Socal sectional seeds versus the L3 seeds....
    but the listing of juniors names ( kids under the age of 18 without their consent) to prove a point is inappropriate, and hurtful.

    And yes, everyone discusses DB on this board, as BB so willingly volunteers information.
    The kid is a blue chip, and not a held back a year blue chip, but the real deal.
    But, I wonder if DB will have issues when he is older that he was on the internet....
    Anyway, the difference here is BB is DB's guardian, and therefore is giving consent.

    I do have an issue with listing junior names to prove a point.
    These kids are not public figures, and have not signed up to have their name on the internet.
    Kids don’t give up their rights to privacy because their names are listed on a tournament site..

    Kids spend more time on the computers than the grownups.
    They do their homework on it, chat with friends on it, and look up “stuff” on it.
    If you think juniors are not reading this talk tennis board, you are mistaken.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2011
    #94
  45. Tennis_Bum

    Tennis_Bum Professional

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    It is probably just me, but he looks too mechanical and slow. He's really far back away from the court and this is just simply rallying not playing points and there are no pressure. I don't think that forehand is going to hold up on in the futures or challenger circuit. Again, I have to give credit to Brad though, he managed to get more pro players to hit with his 15-year old son than anyone I know of. The guy can get around. I don't know how he does it but he's good. Personally, I don't think the kid is ready to turn pro.
     
    #95
  46. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    http://www.usta.com/Youth-Tennis/Junior-Competition/Ranking/
    This is the link to the USTA Junior National Ranking System document. Look under the section “National Ranking Tournament & National Ranking Levels”. Read the quote that states “Below are the 2011 National Ranking Tournaments and the assigned National Ranking Levels that correspond with the Point Tables”. Look in the Level 3 section at the last entry. “Sectional Ranking Tournaments: 1 designated by each Sectional Association”

    I am interested to see what reasoning you will use to explain how the USTA document is incorrect.

    On the SoCal sectionals .vs. weak level 3 tournaments it looks like you are agreeing you are wrong but take issue with the manor I used to prove it to you.
     
    #96
  47. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Yes, I am talking about that 'stiff' prep he does, rather than the specifics of his grip, etc. We get a good number of girls and right away you see the back foot move up and ask them "if that from watching Serena's serve?" and the answer is usually yes. Tennis kids sometimes pick parts of strokes of their favorite players to emulate.

    With DB he might have watched Roddick when he was 10 and copied some of the prep....or not. Just making conversation after glancing at his latest video.

    The kid obviously works hard on his game. I think this latest video shows improvement over a year ago. I still see college as the #1 path he should take though.

    I am curious, what issues do you have with his non dominant arm on his forehand?
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2011
    #97
  48. petepoyry

    petepoyry New User

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    This wasn`t for me but,

    losing eye contact on the ball
     
    #98
  49. ChiefAce

    ChiefAce Semi-Pro

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    Slightly hard to describe, but the way he gets his non dominant arm out of the way seems to hinder his rotation, instead of it being smooth it's almost as if it gets in the way at times because of how rigid it is. You can see the difference between his non dominant arm and Krajinovic in the video of them hitting against each other. He actually momentarily blocks his own line of sight as it sweeps across before he follows through. I'd be curious how that forehand holds up on the run against major competition and heavy balls. I'd imagine the sometimes rigid rotation would either cause short balls, or balls left weak to the middle, or just weak in general. I'm sure it's fine when he has time, but when he doesn't have as much time that would be my guess. He definitely needs to smooth that out, but it's been an issue for years going back to when videos first started popping up of the kid.

    He gets good non dominant arm extension, but the way it moves out of the way is a hindrance. Of course the kid is doing an amazing job, but at this level you have to be extremely picky to make sure there are no technical flaws getting in the way.

    I do agree on the movement, but at 15 and 6-4 he should continue to grow into his body, and the serve of course should be huge if especially if he continues to grow. It's great he's able to hit with these guys on a trip to Nick B's, definitely positioning themselves well for the future. Best of luck as always to the kid. If he starts popping big serves and eliminates any technical liabilities he'll just have to start grinding it out in futures qualies and we'll see if the results come.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2011
    #99
  50. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Thanks Chief, when I get some time I will check out that arm. Funny you mentioned that. Just yesterday we had a girl who I had taught last week to extend her arm down the baseline. She had it just fine in practice.

    She came back after practicing on her own for a week and she had that arm stuck up there like it was in a cast! Its always something to work on.
     

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