Raising a tennis playing kid

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by Flat Top, Nov 5, 2011.

  1. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    1) I do know of a brilliant kid who homeschools.
    He studies many hours a day, has a few tutors, and spend part of his day in a lab in a research institute.
    He does not play tennis, nor does he play any sports.

    2) 8:00 am - 4:00 pm in school, teachers who have their masters, and 5 hours of homework
    versus
    4 hours of homeschooling?
    No comment.

    3) Your family seems to be located in a very bad school district,
    if it is plagued with drugs, disrespect for teachers, and violence.
    Usually parents avoid these neighborhoods at all costs,
    I am not sure why you moved there with kids????
    But if you are stuck in one,
    and if you have the desire and will to make money...... possibly working two jobs,
    ( after all isn't it the desire and will that will make your son a pro?)
    then send them to private school.
    Or volunteer at the public school, help fund money for teachers assistants, and be the change.

    The scum hole that you refer to as public school taught me how to write.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2011
  2. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    So lets see 8am to 4 pm in school then 5 hrs of homework, let me do the math here 8hrs plus 5hrs equals 13hrs of one subject school 5days a week then study over the weekends these kind of hrs. Amounts to child abuse. 13hrs x 5days equals 65hrs a week most jobs are 40hrs and you get paid, this madness is child abuse at the least.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2011
  3. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    Sorry Brad, but no chance in hell that's true. Approach does have some merits, but I guarantee you no tennis home-schooled kid can make that claim over my scum-hole attending one when it comes to comparing class loads... Just the thought is laughable.
     
  4. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    Hey anytime you want to bring you or a 15yr old of your choice to play him I am sure I can call them , they invite all hits , would love to see how you do against the inflated 15 yr old.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2011
  5. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    .........................
     
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  6. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    2 kids in Poway, CA were homeschooled and by the time they finished high school they already had 2 additional years of college under their belts, I know a kid close to myself , he is already studying ahead 12th grade work cause his family has a crazy plan about going pro, his workload is off the charts, starts many mornings with his workouts at 430am (his choice) on that one so he can spend time on his studies.This is laughable to think with all your education you use a presumption as to what others are doing as a fact. You should really do your homework about homeschooling before you open your mouth.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2011
  7. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    Only a idiot would waste his words on a fool and you have demonstrated to the whole board who you are with a few swings on the keyboard.
     
  8. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Class loads is not the point. I am 100% with BB on this one....except of course for the hell hole part. I think he is using hyperbole to refer to inner city schools and not public schools in general.

    Numerous studies have been conducted, home school kids do as well or better across the board no matter what the measure, academically and socially. The knock had once been that home schooled kids suffer socially, however studies have shown even that is simply not true.

    From The Canadian Journal of Behavioral Science:

    "The study, which examined the test scores of 74 students ages 5-10, found that kids educated in structured home school environments actually outperformed their public school counterparts in math and reading.

    Researchers found that public school kids tested either at or above their grade level, while home-schoolers tested about a half-grade higher in math and 2.2 grades higher in reading.

    “Structured home-schooling may offer opportunities for academic performance beyond those typically experienced in public schools,” author Sandra Martin-Chang, a professor at Concordia University, said in a statement about the results."


    I went to public school and my daughter has friends who do. So we are able to directly compare what they learn vs what she learns. In fact her best friend's mother supplies us with materials so we can directly compare. This is a top school in an affluent area.

    Regarding strictly academics, we are able to accomplish as much as her friends do in their in 6 hour school day in 2 hours. A vast majority of a typical 6 hour school day is not spent on academics....explaining material to slower kids within a class, time between periods, covering mandated material that may not be vital to learning, free periods, traveling to and from school.....lots of time can be taken out of a school day with no loss of academics.

    I am also teaching my daughter one of my passions, business and investing. She knows as much academically as her friends, yet also knows the basics of running a business and investing. So how is she behind in any way? She is young. But we know numerous families with older kids and compare them. There just is no drop off academically.

    My girl also is less into peer pressure. She went to a birthday party of 7 year olds last week. The other girls dressed the same, were using language more suited for 12 year olds, already worried about what boy at school liked them, a few used salty language. They are flat out growing up way too soon.

    So I will defend a properly homeschooled child 100%. They are as good or better academically and socially.

    Notice I say as good.....I do not claim that my method is better across the board. There are plenty of traditionally schooled kids that are just as smart and adjusted as my girl. But I do not accept that homeschooling is inferior in any way.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  9. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    Oh, this is your best yet! TCF and I have consistently advocated for kids to use their talents to get a college education and for better talent ID and development for those that have "it". How is that un-American?

    And, you do realize that you went into the "what's wrong with the nation" realm and point to ESPN "Beyond the Glory" for the answer, right?
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  10. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    There you go - call him ignorant, stupid... you actually went a few posts there without resorting to name calling. Look, every type of schooling can find it's success examples and it's failure examples. Comparing stats doesn't work because there are too many extraneous circumstances. The best school is one that works for your child.
     
  11. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    So just curious, were they any good in tennis and did they graduate from college? What major?

    If this is the same kid we're thinking of, I did do my homework before opening my mouth...

    What you said about desire, guidance, dedication, etc. applies to anything. There's no free lunch. You chose tennis for your boy, I chose academics for mine. Your boy will whoop my kid on the tennis court, mine will whoop him back in academics - that's not personal, that's a fact.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  12. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    TCF, we discused this before

    No doubt there are merits to both methods, and it depends a lot on what the ultimate goal is for your own child. For a "regular ed" child, home schooling is competitive at the middle/high school level to get into college. For an accelerated kid preparing for a technical career however, it is my opinion from personal experience that it would not be adequate. No need to rely on statistics for this one. Again, no free lunch. Whatever the kid dedicates the most time to is what he'll likely succeed at - except perhaps as a money making pro :).
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  13. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    that is correct article the TCF cited was biased and has errors as well it cherry picks and refers to the STRUCTURED home schoolers how about the UNSTRUCTURED which there are plenty of those, if you look at the totality of both structured and unstructured performance they are about the same as traditional schooling.

    Anyway, in our clinics I can pick out the private catholic students right away, they are the most respected and always thank me at the end of each and every lesson. The home schooler kids are very defiant and have no respect for authority and elders. But then again I do have one or two two home schoolers who are very respectful, so there you have it, it is up to the individual and the teachers/parents. If have a good egg and a super teacher (home, private, public) you will have a good kid.
     
  14. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I guess we have opposite experiences. Overall the home schooled kids I see are polite, mature, engaged. Some of the traditional schooled kids have their heads stuck in their cell phones and by age 8 are acting like the cast of mean girls. They tease more and act like sheep.

    I agree, good kids come from all backgrounds. But in no way, shape, or form are home schooled kids worse. At the very least, they are just as good in every way.

    My guess is you would call my girl deviant. She has a chip on her shoulder on court and will demand an adult treat her with respect. When an adult says something that does not make sense, she calls them on it.

    So your 'lack of respect' is my "I am so proud of you". I have a funny feeling most great people from all walks of life tended to be more mouthy and opinionated as kids.....just a guess, could be wrong.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  15. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    I am choosing FAMILY first, education second, tennis third. Being and spending time altogether at dinner everyday for example or going on trips, mother, father, sister, brother, grand parents, friend uncles nieces etc..., not going to some tournament alone in a car and being on court with one maybe two family members does not cut it. We plane tennis activities altogether. I am here to spend time with my family not just my son, and will do anything and everything to protect and save my family from breaking apart. Tennis is a lonely sport and I do not want my kid to be alone.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  16. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    if the homeschooler education is unstructured their performance is lower, this is the flaw in the article you cited.
     
  17. BMC9670

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    Exactly. Much more goes into the outcome than simply being home schooled, public schooled, or private schooled. Any and all comparisons between methods is going to be skewed by so many factors - geography, socioeconomic, family involvement, temperament, developmental rates and capacities, teaching pool, etc. My point is, there is no apples to apple comparison, and what works for one situation may not work for another. Now, to Brad's point, of course you don't want to put your kid in a dangerous environment (violence, drugs, etc, etc), but not all public schools are that way. Not by a long shot. Bottom line, the best school is one that works for your situation and your child.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  18. TennisCoachFLA

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    Evidence please. There are 1000 derivations of structure vs unstructure.

    Performance is what? Standardized tests or actual long term income and happiness? You need to back up your claim.
     
  19. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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  20. TennisCoachFLA

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  21. Pro_Tour_630

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    The best education system in the world is S korea ( they do not homeschool but spend many many hours studying and taking government tests) and 2nd finland ( four hours of relaxed school only with the best teachers/educators equal pay to doctors). The US ranking is in the upper middle range, canada is around fifth in the world. The best education systems in the US are in the North East, sorry NE trumps the South in the education department. If I were in FL, GA or SC, I will be homeschooling for sure.:oops:

    Like I said if the parents has the knowledge and time, similar to parents who are tennis instructors, some are good and some are just horrible, then homeschooling is fine , but many do not have the time nor the patience nor the experience to home school.
     
  22. BMC9670

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    Guys, come on. The argument is really moot because any research or stats are not proof of causation. Why? Because you can't have a control group. Too many circumstances. If a kid from a well off, involved family is home schooled and does better academically and then gets a higher paying job as an adult than a poor kid who goes to public school who's single mother has to work, is their outcome based solely on school? No way. Extreme examples, but my point is that the schooling method is only one small part of the equation.
     
  23. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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  24. Pro_Tour_630

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    that is the point I am making, the control group is thrown out in the cite TCF was referencing, they did not consider the unstructured kids who are homeschooled, they cherrypicked the best structured homeschool kids and you know only the extreme die had homeschoolers will respond for the evidence not some average homeschool joe who is homeschooling to play tennis :)
     
  25. TennisCoachFLA

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    You can not just look at standardized testing and measures like that. S. Korea may produce certain types of academic kids.

    But it is well known that they have severe trouble with creativity. Companies are blown away when they realize how literal these smart kids are, they can not think outside the box. They are simply repeating facts and figures.

    So there are countries that are ranked lower in education that still produce more creative thinkers. More than one way for people to be valuable to society.
     
  26. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    Like I said I am for HS if I were living in the south, but I am in NE, for a reason. If I move to the south it will be about tennis and better weather, then education. Heck you moved from sarasota to boca? for better weather to play tennis all year round
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  27. BMC9670

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    Not only that, but you can't even have a control group because circumstances outside of the schooling method are never equal.
     
  28. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Not true. Some of those studies were done by school systems or other agencies. All kids are registered in most states when they home school.

    The school districts would not cherry pick anything, they would simply pick registered home schooled students regardless or structure.
     
  29. BMC9670

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    Difference culture, difference circumstances. There are no apples to apples comparisons.
     
  30. BMC9670

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    Yes, but people who home school do so for different reasons than traditional school - tennis, religion, live in a bad school district, etc, etc. So you have difference circumstances going in. The success comes from matching of the goals and situation, not just fact that they are home schooled.
     
  31. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Pro Tour....tennis hotbeds in the south are not in poor areas. They are in the best areas for the most part.

    Boca Raton...some of the best schools in the country. Jupiter, Palm Beach Gardens, same thing.

    All the academies are associated with top schools or online programs. Bradenton has rough areas, but the IMG kids have some of the best schools to choose from.
     
  32. Pro_Tour_630

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    Finland produces the best thinkers outside the box, they are second and only study four hours a day, but they have one thing for sure, their educators are the best in the world, they are paid like surgeons :) and all have phd's they have Rick maccies on every corner of the schools, at every neighborhood, can you imagine that in tennis in the US? So in a way they are like homeschooler but the teachers are the best. Not every parent is a good teacher, you have some really lousy parents out there, just like there are some really lousy parents that make lousy tennis instructors. It is best to hand off your kids to the best professionals similar in tennis, there are norms of course.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  33. Pro_Tour_630

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    I am just going by the RESEARCH :confused: article you cited in canada it is biased here it is

    http://gaither.wordpress.com/2011/07/29/a-new-study-on-academic-achievement-of-homeschoolers/

    registered means nothing, they do not even want to follow the rules, homeschoolers want less regulation not more???? most want to do whatever they want,
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  34. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    But the vast majority of home schooling parents are well educated and highly successful, that affords them the opportunity to home school.

    The 4 kids allowed to wander the trailer part who are home schooled is not the typical home schooled kids.
     
  35. TennisCoachFLA

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  36. BMC9670

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    I'll leave you two to the debate. It's Saturday, I'm gonna go play some tennis. BMC out!:)
     
  37. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Right behind you. It rained yesterday all day, can't wait to hit.

    Trying a little tweak on the forehand today with my kid. A little something I noticed the top players all do but she is not.
     
  38. Pro_Tour_630

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    again compared to the best schools in the best areas in the NE they are not the same.
     
  39. TennisCoachFLA

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    Strange, seem to be mostly southern at the top.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/features/2011/americas-best-high-schools.html

    Overall the south has issues with education. But in the better areas they excel and are as good as any NE school. Heck most of the people in Palm Beach Gardens and Boca Raton are former northerners!
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  40. Pro_Tour_630

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    agree, Off to team tennis Yuck :( why I like it because I can stop a match in the middle and correct my kid.
     
  41. Pro_Tour_630

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    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  42. TennisCoachFLA

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    Again....we are talking where tennis is big. Tennis is dead in rural Alabama....education is not good there. Same with vast portions of the south. Tennis is only big in limited areas.

    But everywhere tennis is big in the south, the school systems are excellent.
     
  43. DownTheLine

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    This only happens if your child allows it to.. so apparently you have a terrible kid if you're worried about that.

    I go to a Public High School and I've only done 2 out of the 6.. and I'm a senior.
     
  44. Pro_Tour_630

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    Like I said, we have two top players in NE from the best private school system in the nation that just went south, family broken, education broken etc... all for tennis, it is a big commitment. When they come back and if they come back I will ask them how it went? we shall see.
     
  45. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    TCF, I only need two words to counter your assertion - "Hyundai" and "Samsung".
     
  46. TennisCoachFLA

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    Overall they are not as good at creative thinking as American kids, like anything, there are exceptions. Many Asian companies will hire outside creative thinkers to supplement their work force.

    We may import engineers from India, they may import some Americans to fill certain roles that require creative thinking.
     
  47. BSPE84

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    Tough generalization, no monopoly on either side. Apple is suing Samsung, Samsung is suing Apple over "creative" work. Who's right?
     
  48. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    Yes this list proves that there are probably some good schools in the south. But if you assume based on this list that the average public HSs in AL and KY are better than in NY or NJ you are wrong.
    First of all this list consists of magnet publics and publics from very wealthy districts. It does not reflect on average HS in the state. Secondly this list is seriously messed up. Just based on my limited knowledge any such list that does not include TJ HS in Northern VA or Stuyvesant in NYC is seriously messed up. Bergen Academy from NJ on 22nd place behind Alabama school? Newsweek methodology may not give enough credit to many amazing schools. They can only rank "normal" schools where students do not perform at Carnegie Hall or cook at Daniel Boulud and are not members of US math Olympic team. And if you think Florida has any public schools comparable to these 3 you are greatly mistaken.
     
  49. Tennishacker

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    I think it's important to get things in perspective. Tennis parents home school for different reasons than parents who home school for educational reasons.

    I don't understand tennis parents who home school kids from a young age. I'm not against home schooling if a child has the potential to become a pro or a highly ranked junior, but to start home schooling then during their elementary school years is depriving them of important socialization lessons.
     
  50. coaching32yrs

    coaching32yrs Semi-Pro

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    The article you quote concerns homeschooling for 3 reasons: religious, social dissatisfaction, and academic dissatisfaction. That is not why the parents on this Board are home schooling. They are doing it to create more time for their child to practice tennis. Comparing national statistics on homeschooling vs public schooling makes no sense. There is virtually no home schooling in large urban areas. The one near me has a 50% drop out rate and only 9% of high school grads passed the State mandated proficiency test. That is not the control group the home schooled tennis players are coming from. They are coming from suburban areas where there are some of the best public and private schools in the country. Saying your child outperforms a school educated child is meaningless. I could have pulled my kids out of school in the 5th grade and home schooled them. They would have outperformed traditional schooled kids each subsequent year. That does not prove anything. Speak with a head of school for a top private school and tell them you are home schooling for tennis. Go over the hours spent on school and homework each day. Therein lies the answer.
     

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