Randy Moss.......

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by struggle, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,267
    Location:
    Western North Carolina
    So, Randy Moss says he is the greatest WR ever to play football.
    Abit brash, yes.

    BUT it made me think of my view of Serena.

    He may be right, he may be the most talented ever.

    I'd say the same about Serena.

    But Jerry Rice is the GOAT, no doubt.
     
    #1
  2. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    21,212
    Wrong forum. Please visit this thread for discussion.

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=439615&page=11
     
    #2
  3. Borrelli

    Borrelli Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    567
    Location:
    CT
    Because she looks like she should be on the football field instead of a tennis court?
     
    #3
  4. amx13

    amx13 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    509
    Serena wouldn't play WR, but LB perhaps...
     
    #4
  5. DropShotArtist

    DropShotArtist Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,233
    I see her more as a fullback.
     
    #5
  6. GS

    GS Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,310
    Location:
    Oakland
    Years ago, Serena actually told the media, "Hey, I'm booty-licious."
     
    #6
  7. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,185
    Location:
    USA
    There is a long list of great WR's. Hard to see definitively who is/was the greatest. Impossible to compare players from different eras. Same deal as in tennis.
     
    #7
  8. Disgruntled Worker

    Disgruntled Worker Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    389
    Scott Van Pelt and Ryen Orsillo were discussing this too. Moss was the best of his generation. But then he had years when he just fell off mentally (like the end of his stint with New England). He also was controversial during his Minnesota days, getting into altercations with teammate Matt Birk as well as others. I can't say I was around when Jerry Rice dominated. But looking at the numbers exclusively and without bias, it's not even a question:

    Jerry Rice 1549 career receptions to Moss's 982
    22,895 receiving yards compared to 15,292
    13 Pro Bowls compared to 6
    and of course 3 Super Bowl rings compared to 0
     
    #8
  9. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    21,212
    If you compare them by the same position(receiver) they play, I don't see why not. You put any receivers in Rice's era and and situation, no way anyone of them are going to racked up those mind boggling numbers.
     
    #9
  10. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    21,212
    It's the same with comparing Federer to Sampras. Federer basically has everything above Sampras. Only a few die-hard Sampras fans(and Moss fans) are in denial.
     
    #10
  11. Disgruntled Worker

    Disgruntled Worker Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    389
    There will never be another Jerry Rice. His longevity of 20 NFL seasons is similar to the crazy endurance Federer had making it to the Semis of all those majors.
     
    #11
  12. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,185
    Location:
    USA
    It is hard to compare someone like Raymond Berry to Jerry Rice. Or, Don Hutson. The game has changed so much over time. 16 games seasons, multiple rounds of playoffs, 50+ passes per game, etc. Just like it is hard to compare Fed to Laver or to Tilden.

    Rice has to be on everyone's top five. He had a great career. Moss not so much.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
    #12
  13. krz

    krz Professional

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    889
    Location:
    Concrete Jungle Where Dreams are Made
    I think in this situation this is not the case. You can debate GOATs at every single position. Every position except one, WR. Rice is pretty much the unanimous GOAT, it's almost impossible to make an argument for anyone else.
     
    #13
  14. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,365
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Being a 49'er fan since 1957, I'd compare Moss to Owens and MichaelIrving of Dallas. A handful for sure, but sometimes the effort just wasn't there.
     
    #14
  15. krz

    krz Professional

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    889
    Location:
    Concrete Jungle Where Dreams are Made
    Owen's issue was his big mouth and throwing QB's under the bus(e.g. Garcia, McNabb), I don't think effort was ever an issue. On the field the guy was a soldier. He produced everywhere he went. SF, Dallas, miraculous comeback to play in the SB for Phili after breaking his leg and putting up a monster game, played hard for Buffalo too when he was here and even the Bungals.

    I'm honestly surprised that no one wants to give him a chance anymore, he's stayed in shape and is as ripped as ever.


    p.s. If you didn't notice I'm a huge fan of TO haha.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
    #15
  16. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    13,033
    Location:
    In the future
    Moss can get open better than Rice
     
    #16
  17. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,365
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Yes, Moss can get open better than Rice, but.....
    Rice after year 2 made adjustment's to GO FOR THE BALL. Moss, no. He runs his pattern, if the ball doesn't float into his arms, he runs his pattern still...
    TO. Same as nowadaze Moss. He could make spectacular catches, but more often than not shortarms the ball that lands on BOTH his hands without breaking stride, his elbows bent 90 degrees. He needed warmup catches before the real thing.
    Either way, getting open to entice the QB to throw your way is nothing like making the effort on every ball to CATCH IT!
    Effort is not related to talent, or god given physical ability.
     
    #17
  18. r2473

    r2473 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    7,019
    I'd like to know what Moss meant when he said he is/was the greatest. Obviously, he wasn't simply looking at stats.

    To watch Moss play for Minnesota (before his "attitude problems") was pretty amazing.
     
    #18
  19. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,365
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    He prolly thinks about the NFL combine requirements.
    Fast 40 time.
    Tall.
    Great vertical leap.
    Period. Like no credence to effort, desire, or work ethic.
     
    #19
  20. r2473

    r2473 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    7,019
    Now, now. You're being a bit harsh. You're just remembering the "attitude problem" Moss. The the early version was simply amazing.

    I loved hearing Chris Carter when he was discussing "The Bounty" scandal, talk about how they had to protect Moss in those days because everyone was out to injure him (because he was just tearing them apart)
     
    #20
  21. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,365
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Every opponent is aware of the tall skinny guy who hurts them. Starting with PeeWee football anyways.
    You hit them in the middle, hopefully they get shellshocked and don't wanna get hit.
    BillyWilson of the 49'ers had that to contend with.
    Look at Gronk of the Patriots.
    And yes, I saw the earlier Vikings Moss version. You took him out of his comfort zone by bumping him at the line, then subtle handchecks down the field, bumping him if you had the speed.
    That's why he got soo many pass interference calls in his favor.
     
    #21
  22. stringertom

    stringertom G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    13,030
    Location:
    In a sureshsian vortex
    Ironic that this thread was listed immediately adjacent to the "useless information" thread until this poast. Moss has succeeded in getting everybody all riled up with his ludicrous contention. Best deep threat ever...possibly; best WR ever...dream on!
     
    #22
  23. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    21,212
    Terrell Owen believe he's better than Randy Moss. He said Rice is 1 and he's 1A.

     
    #23
  24. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,365
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    I remember an old ESPN show where MichaelIrving said HE was the greatest wide reciever in football....
     
    #24
  25. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    21,212
    Here's the latest quote from Irvin...

    Irvin: Rice better receiver 'period', not Moss
     
    #25
  26. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,365
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    That's not what he said over 10 years ago, when Rice was done.
     
    #26
  27. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,185
    Location:
    USA
    Rice played through the 2004 season and quit in 2005/06. Irvin is correct, stat wise, there is no conversation. Again, it is impossible to compare great players from different eras. Coincidentally, today is the 100th anniversary of Don Hutson's birthday; the player who revolutionized the concept of the end position.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
    #27
  28. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,365
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    I wonder.
    And have been wondering since I was 12 years old.
    Do other's judge you on your worst performance, and the end of your career? Do they always remember the days you struggle, stumble, and bumble your way to the end?
    While you judge yourself on your best day in your prime when biorythum and god's favor shines on you?
    Most of my peers like to downplay and joke about our past, especially when it's a date they didn't perform up to expectations.
    I'm the 3rd sentence above, sorry.
     
    #28
  29. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    21,212
    Some response from the ex pro players:

    Ray Buchanan: "He has not at all obeyed protocol for wide receivers. And with all due respect to Randy Moss, I had to do a lot more film study to get ready for Jerry because I had to get ready for every route. He ran every route available, to perfection, and he ran them all the same, so it was almost impossible to stop. With Randy, I didn't even have to watch film, because it was all about the 'Go' route."

    "With Moss, it was like checkers. With Rice, it was like chess. It was a totally different ballgame. I'm gonna be honest with you – a lot of defensive backs don't want to mention that we're nervous or intimidated at our position. We've got our egos that are strong. But me coming from Indy and coming to [the Falcons in] that division [with the 49ers], I honestly had tornado storms in my stomach."

    Marshall Faulk: When I asked Hall of Fame running back Marshall Faulk about the Rice vs. Moss debate, he answered, "What debate? Why do I need to comment on something that doesn't even merit discussion?"

    Cris Carter: "I wish Randy had said 'greatest deep threat' instead of 'greatest receiver,' " Carter said. "Jerry struck a lot of fear in defenders, but there was a whole different set of fear with Randy. He could gut you right now. He could score from anywhere on the field. And from an athletic standpoint, there is nothing I would take Jerry Rice over Randy on.

    "Jerry is more complete. When it came to route running and yards after the catch, a term they invented because of Jerry, he was the greatest. Most of all, when Jerry stands before God, he'll have gotten everything possible out of his ability. When Randy stands before God, he'll still have some left."

    Eric Davis: "Jerry is the greatest receiver, period," Davis said. "You had to defend the entire field, because he ran every route. Randy, with his size and speed and hands, is the greatest deep threat we've ever seen. There's a reason we called him a 'freak.' There are very few that have ever had that type of impact. But he would still fall short of Jerry Rice, the greatest impact player the game has ever seen."
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
    #29
  30. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,495
    Location:
    So Cal
    Did anyone say "greatest legend in his own mind" yet?

    When he was trying, he probably was one of the most feared deep threats. But his motivation came and went with a change of the wind. He was never known as a guy to go to on 3rd and 11 and count on him running a route just long enough to make sure he got the 1st down. And he definitely got 'alligator arms' when asked to go over the middle.

    But he's entitled to his opinion - and to be wrong.
     
    #30

Share This Page