Rate this guy (video)

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Big bag of squirrels, Mar 30, 2008.

  1. Big bag of squirrels

    Big bag of squirrels New User

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    #1
  2. CantBeBeat2

    CantBeBeat2 Rookie

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    i would say a solid 4.0.
     
    #2
  3. randomname

    randomname Professional

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    3.5 for sure
     
    #3
  4. tennisplayer1981

    tennisplayer1981 Rookie

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    4.5

    I see a lot of moonshots, but it could be the way the video was shot, which begs to question: did you shoot this with fisheye lenses?
     
    #4
  5. CAM178

    CAM178 Hall of Fame

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    3.5-4.0. Guy in blue hat is much better player, so I'd put him at 4.0. Other guy is 3.5.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2008
    #5
  6. randomname

    randomname Professional

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    lol, no way either are anywhere near 4.5, I saw a few serves that were about 4 feet short of the baseline by the second bounce, alot of very loopy shots with little pace or spin, some bad volleys and a few good forehands
     
    #6
  7. montx

    montx Professional

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    If there was a 3.75, I would pin both players as 3.75.

    I think they are established 3.5's improving to 4.0.
     
    #7
  8. tennisplayer1981

    tennisplayer1981 Rookie

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    I'm in a good mood and being generous. :)
     
    #8
  9. Zachol82

    Zachol82 Professional

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    I'd say 4.0 or 4.5

    They don't even run...or can't for that matter. If they were in their 20's or 30's, that'd be a whole different story.

    Sure, their shots are not flashy but I just LOVE how fluid it is. I'd also like to add that there's some good placement going on there as well. Not often do I get to see vids like these...most of them are just power, power, and more power. These guys really know when to speed the ball up, not just recklessly trying to hit winners on every shots.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2008
    #9
  10. TokyopunK

    TokyopunK Professional

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    7.0








    Divided by 2
     
    #10
  11. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    Where are they playing? - The Amazon Jungle? check out all the bird sounds in the background.
     
    #11
  12. Gmedlo

    Gmedlo Professional

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    You make a good point, but you do see where their relaxed, fluid-looking shots are landing, right? Short. Almost every rally ball they hit lands around the service line. A decent 4.5 would capitalize on this and would dominate those sitters, or at least get a strong approach shot in.. This leads me to think they are closer to the 3.5-4.0 range, not close to 4.5.
     
    #12
  13. zidane339

    zidane339 Hall of Fame

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    haha i thought the same thing..plus the occasional man scremaing in the background.haha

    but I think these guys are 3.5-4.0. Its hard to tell at times with the camera angle.
     
    #13
  14. itsstephenyo

    itsstephenyo Rookie

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    I noticed a few things.

    1) They played a lot of balls that were blatantly out.
    2) A lot of shots landed really, really, really short in the court.
    3) The guy in the gray has an odd one-hander.

    3.5 just on how many short balls there were.
     
    #14
  15. TENNIS_IS_FUN

    TENNIS_IS_FUN Professional

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    Um wow...no disrespect to the OP, but I'd rate these guys a solid 2.5. Maybe I just got alot better, but these guys are NOT 3.5-4.0 like many of the above posters have said. Nothing off the volleys, just tapping the ball over, technique needs help for both players on both wings...
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2008
    #15
  16. ramseszerg

    ramseszerg Professional

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    Very placement oriented players. I like it. I don't know the NTRP but I would say higher than 2.5 for sure TENNIS_IS_FUN.
     
    #16
  17. NicolasH

    NicolasH Rookie

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    I agree, 3.0 is tops for these guys.

    Cheers,
    n.
     
    #17
  18. Vision84

    Vision84 Hall of Fame

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    Hard to tell with the speeds on the camera. Everything seems slow motion. I would say 3.5-4.0. Technique isn't terrible and they can rip some nice winners with some solid touch at net though not really putting the ball away. As others have noted far to many short balls and a good 4.0 or 4.5 would attack these and come to the net. Consistency is rather poor to.
     
    #18
  19. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    2.5? Have you even seen a 2.5? A 2.5 wouldn't be as fluid as they are. They wouldn't be S&Ving. I would say these guys are an absolute minimum of 3.5. But probably 4.0.
     
    #19
  20. BobFL

    BobFL Hall of Fame

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    3.5 max....
     
    #20
  21. iamke55

    iamke55 Professional

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    This is why you don't ask TT for NTRP ratings.
     
    #21
  22. randomname

    randomname Professional

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    no, you dont ask for ratings off of videos period, its too hard to tell
     
    #22
  23. P-Town Tennis

    P-Town Tennis Rookie

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    They look like 4.0s.
     
    #23
  24. Passion4Tennis

    Passion4Tennis Rookie

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    I wish the video quality was a little better and longer, but based on what I see, I think the guy with the cap is about a 4.0, and the other guy a 3.5. Giving them a 2.5 rating is ridiculous. A player with a rating that low wouldn't be able to vary their shots successfully the way these guys do. Most of their shots were struck with medium pace and decent spin, and the depth of their shots were appropriate for 3.5-4.0 players.

    The guy with the cap nailed a few shots up the line, and it wasn't done with reckless abandon. His volleys were respectable, too.

    Anyone that gives these guys a rating of 3.0 or less, needs to take a serious look at the NTRP ratings.
     
    #24
  25. ohhgourami

    ohhgourami Rookie

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    taths one very strange 1h bh. looks like hes trying to do a slice and a topspin drive simultaneously.
     
    #25
  26. spiritdragon

    spiritdragon Rookie

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    i'd say 3.5
     
    #26
  27. krz

    krz Professional

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    I'd say 4.0. Topspin serves and they did have the ability to rally for a pretty good amount of time. And they were able to rip the ball when they wanted to. And they were consciously placing balls right and left.

    They may look bad because of their strokes, but hey theres not many "older" people that look good while playing. The way to ball moves I would say 4.0.
     
    #27
  28. superbooga

    superbooga Rookie

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    4.0. These people are better than most of you think and would beat most people here. They are quite consistent and know how to play the game.

    Do you realize how much power is overrated? 3.5 players often hit harder than 4.0 players -- the 4.0 players keep the ball in and attack when the opportunity arises.
     
    #28
  29. JHBKLYN

    JHBKLYN Rookie

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    The view is distorted and the court looks smaller but these guys are at least 4.0's if not higher. The guy in the blue hat has touch, hits with power, and is ripping winners when he has the chance. I've play against USTA Eastern section rated 5.0 guys and they play similar to the guy in the blue hat and I wouldn't be surprise if he is a 5.0.
     
    #29
  30. JHBKLYN

    JHBKLYN Rookie

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    I think they need to go play some USTA tennis! If they are 3.5 players, get them on your team and you may win the Nationals 'cause they will crush any 3.5 player.
     
    #30
  31. SalvadorVeiga

    SalvadorVeiga Rookie

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    3.5. There's no way they are 4.0 a lot of the slices they made just sky rocketed going like 4 meters above the net. There is some touch but other than that, I did like however the hat guy's serve it did have some nice spin in it and a good motion.

    As for the volleys they didn't have much placement, all they did was come up to the net and pounch it back usually to the center.

    As for groundstrokes, many times you seem them getting too tight or caught with no room for the stroke, not even to mention they shanked quite a few times.
     
    #31
  32. jmverdugo

    jmverdugo Hall of Fame

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    I would say 4.0. I think that even though the ball land short sometimes it does have a decent amount of pace, it is hard to say from the video though.
     
    #32
  33. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Serious question guys.

    Nobody, I repeat, Nobody, who has the slightest bit of a clue about tennis could honestly believe that these guys were 3.0 or less.

    So I ask, what are you trying to accomplish by saying that they are that low?

    Do you think that by rating others lower, or saying bad things about them, people will think that you are good?

    Do you think that you look better than them when you play, even though you lose to players of a certain level?

    Does talking down about others just make you feel better?

    I am not trying to bust on you guys, but I just honestly want to know what you are trying to accomplish, or what your reasoning is, when you rate others far below what they actually are.

    J
     
    #33
  34. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    Easily 4.0. As others said, fluid, good technique, knows WHEN to hit out, and when to play safe, and places the ball quite well.

    The only thing I see, is the short balls, and yes, 4.5 players would come in and take advantage of those mid court slower shots. However, we are looking at ONE clip. If you had a vid of most 4.5's playing their worst, I am sure they would get a 3.0 rating too on TT as well.

    Yeah, and I second Jolly's inquiry on why people are rating these guys at 2.5 and 3.0. I mean seriously, is that a joke or if you are serious, please expound with some logic.
     
    #34
  35. circusmouse

    circusmouse Rookie

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    Great quality video. I wish there were more videos around like that. But the players look like strong 3.5 to me. Their technique is pretty smooth, although the hatless guy's backhand is a little jerky, but their consistent lack of depth would get them in trouble fast at 4.0. Neither of them seems to have any weapons except consistency, and even that falls apart when they try to be aggressive.
     
    #35
  36. Zachol82

    Zachol82 Professional

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    Yes, you are right on the short balls. It's not because they can't hit deep shots, you can apparently see that when they want to score, they DO hit it deep into the court where it's hard for the other person to return.

    I'm just guessing that since they know each other's weaknesses, which is footwork (probably do to their physical limitations), they hit the ball short so that their opponent would be forced to run up and then they hit a deep one to get the point.
     
    #36
  37. CAM178

    CAM178 Hall of Fame

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    Uhhh. . . .what?? You do realize that a 2.5 player can not maintain a rally, has violently erratic strokes, would double fault consistenly, and could not do 1/4 of what these guys can do, right? You might want to read the NTRP chart again, as a 2.5 player is a beginner. These guys in this vid are not beginners.
     
    #37
  38. randomname

    randomname Professional

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    this is the first time i've seen TT over rate someone on a video, apparently I'm much closer to a 4.0 than I thought if I can get away with serves that dont even come close to the baseline on the second bounce, all sorts of floaters that land on the service line, and pitiful volleys
     
    #38
  39. WBF

    WBF Hall of Fame

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    'wow I must be NTRP X' posts never cease to amuse me. The amusing thing is, it's always the lower level people saying this. I wonder if there's some sort of connection :roll:
     
    #39
  40. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    It's really tough to tell from the video, but I'm betting the guy with the cap is prob at least a 4.0 - 4.5 if not higher. He has good volleys and hit several clear winners down the line. He's making the other guy move and the other guy without the cap looks hurried.

    I'm thinking the other guy is a strong 3.5 - 4.0. He can play, but he's having problems forcing the issue with the other guy.

    My guess is more like a shot in the dark.

    Oh and those birds must be 6.0's - listen to those songs and calls - this match either happened in Brazil or at the tennis courts in the middle of the Disney Jungle Book ride.

    IMHO - The problem with TT posters rating people is most people really don't KNOW what they look like when they are playing. I know in my mind, and some other poster's minds, we think our strokes look like Fed's, but a few video sessions reveal the VERY, VERY UGLY truth.

    Looking at the pros on the practice courts, their strokes and play look deceptively simple - that were you get these guys coming out of the wood work claiming that a 4.0 player could beat Venus or Sharapova. The real is that it's not even close.

    Sometimes I wonder if these 3.5 and 4.0 players have ever seen a 5.0, 6.0, or pro player up close.
     
    #40
  41. Vision84

    Vision84 Hall of Fame

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    Watched the video again carefully a couple times and my initial rating was to low. Blue hat strong 4.5 or weak 5.0, Other guy 4.0-4.5 but probably a weakish 4.5.

    The consistency isn't bad. The guy in the blue hat is clearly more comfortable coming to the net and can rip his forehand with solid mechanics. backhand appears to be solid to. The other guy doesn't place his shots as well, not appearing to have much strategy and doesn't move his feet so well which puts him out of position but he still has solid strokes. He has a nice kick serve to. The guy in the blue ripped a forehand winner off his kick serve which not many 4.5s could do consistently.

    Anyone rating any of these guys below 3.5 really need to watch themselves on camera, maybe even people rating them 3.5s. You will be surprised by how much worse you look on camera. This is nothing against you as virtually all of us will look worse on camera than how we will we are.

    To give you some sort of reference this is a strong 3.5 video which has been posted before. One thing to take special notice of is return of serve. COmpare the 2 videos and notice how much worse this video is for return of serves.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=XCRV9sfPxoQ&feature=related
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2008
    #41
  42. Passion4Tennis

    Passion4Tennis Rookie

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    LOL...That was great.

    I know several players at the local park by me that play in USTA Men's 4.0 Leagues. They often construct points that are interesting to watch. Their shot-making abilities look very similar to the guys on this video.
     
    #42
  43. saram

    saram Legend

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    One cannot truly assess a ranking off of a two minute video. Results are what count in someone's ranking. If one were to break down the strokes of Santoro, they would probably not consider him a professional tennis player. Yet, he too Blake three sets the other day and five sets at the US Open.

    And, for someone to say these guys are 2.5's is just a$$enine.
     
    #43
  44. Bundey

    Bundey Professional

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    3.5, probably a 3.75 if it existed, not 4.0.
     
    #44
  45. TennisDawg

    TennisDawg Semi-Pro

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    Good Point JR

    These guys are 4.0 at least. The guy in the blue cap is around 4.2-4.5. Don't think he's above 4.5. The other is 3.5 to 4.0.

    The other TW posters need to go review the NTRP rating criteria. The blue cap guy meets all the skills of a 4.0, even shows 4.5 skills with shot and serve and volley placement. He shows patience and plays within his abilities. The other guy is not bad either, I see some weaknesses with his volleys. If the blue cap guy had someone pressuring him a the net he may not look so fluid, but he has is hitting solid shots.
    Yes, I've never been recorded but I'm sure I would be a humbling experience.
     
    #45
  46. WBF

    WBF Hall of Fame

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    You can't assess a level, but you can get a pretty good idea and make an educated guess.

    Your Santoro comment is false, although the lesson that results are more important than other factors is a good one.
     
    #46
  47. saram

    saram Legend

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    Really? Does Santoro come over every ball? Does he always hit deep penetrating shots? Does he hit groundstrokes that are within the service line? My point in saying what I said was that from two pages of posts on here--they were breaking down the strokes for pace/depth, etc. Santoro does not have the shots of Roger--yet they are truly effective shots.

    These guys may not hit the ball like pro's--but they may be deceptive and have amazing point construction and chew up 4.0-4.5's. Or, they may appear like 4.0-4.5's and have horrible match performances. Either way, my point is that we can't truly assess their levels based off of this vid and breaking down their strokes.

    They are solid players that I am sure could rally for hours and hours. If their match performances are solid and they understand the workings of a point in tennis--then they could easily play 4.5 tennis.
     
    #47
  48. WBF

    WBF Hall of Fame

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    Yes, but they saw two minutes of these strokes. If you saw two minutes of Santoro and didn't know he was a pro or a *damn* good player, it would just be a demonstration of someone not knowing what they were talking about.

    I do agree that you can't fully determine a rating based on a few minutes of video, but you can usually generate an educated guess (a range which they might reasonably fall within).
     
    #48
  49. circusmouse

    circusmouse Rookie

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    I agree that they could be overachievers, but even if they have great "intangibles" (point construction, mental fortitude) these guys would lose badly to 4.5 players. Their serves are marshmallows, their groundstrokes are mostly around the service line, they struggle to put easy balls away, and they're slow. I do understand that video makes people look bad, but what are you seeing that makes you think these people could hang with 4.5 players? I play with a guy in his sixties who looks mediocre but is in fact a good 4.0 singles player, but he at least hits with consistency, depth, and placement. I'm not seeing it with these guys.
     
    #49
  50. TennisDawg

    TennisDawg Semi-Pro

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    Circus mouse, maybe the 60 year old guy is a better 4.0 player. I just found the guidelines for NTRP rating and both of these guys display characteristics of 4.0 to 4.5 players. A 4.0 player, like the 60 year old guy would look mediocore. 4.0 is not supposed to look awesome. The blue cap guy in this video is consistent, places the ball and hits with depth at times. A 4.0 player has that style. I also read the description on 3.0 to 3.5 and these guys look better than that. Don't evaluate the players using a instruction book standard of correct tennis strokes, but what the NTRP guidelines use. How many times when we play recreational tennis do we hit some awkward shot and don't really think of how we actually look to others watching. More than we care to admit, I'm sure!!
     
    #50

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