Real talk re: moderator "favoritism" on GPPD/TTW.

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by diredesire, Jul 14, 2012.

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  1. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    Hi, I've been seeing a lot of expressions of discontent lately regarding "favoritism" and moderator bias. I'm going to temporarily open this discussion thread so you can air out your opinions, help me out, and we can all move forward and be a stronger community.

    While we generally don't allow flaming of moderation decisions (as you've probably noticed your posts getting deleted if you have in the past), I'd like to extend an invitation to offer feedback so I/we can improve.

    With that said, you as a poster need to understand the following:

    A) If you post here, you implicitly agree to post within the bounds of the policies. If you've never read the policies, don't complain when your posts are removed: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=3 That's the thread, for reference.

    B) There is a limited amount of time in a day. This applies to myself, TW Staff, and everyone that posts under that name. If you stop for a moment to consider the vast amount of text that gets slapped on this board a day, there is simply no possible way to read all of it, even if we split it up evenly, and even if it was my/our full time job just to read the forum (ding dong! it's not). This leads to the below point:

    C) If you are seeing things that are a violation of the policies above: Report it. We'll deal with it, and we generally do so very quickly. Don't report things just because you disagree with them. Trolling is one of those things we deal with on a per-post basis. If you see someone who is an "obvious" troll, report the post and leave a note that gives some context of their past history.

    D) Don't insult the moderators in your reported posts. This is common courtesy... come on. If you suspect "bias," or favoritisms, I think you might need to take a step back from your keyboard and think about what you're saying. This is a discussion board, there's no group discussion where we talk about how we can make user-submitted content less "fair."

    E) If you see garbage on the forum, report it! Is someone being incredibly degrading, insulting, getting too personal? Report it! You don't need to report every single instance, I generally will look into a poster's history when appropriate.

    F) People are entitled to an opinion, even if it's unpopular, and I (as a moderator) am here to enforce the rules, not censor people. If you want to debate, that's 100% OK in my book. If you insult others, curse, post stupid gifs (this falls under spam, in my book), or graphics/content that are inappropriate to a family-style audience, your posts will be removed.

    G) Don't retaliate, just report. This is a big one. If you find it a pity that a good discussion thread gets removed because a few posters are trolling, and flaming each other, report early, and don't feed the trolls. There are times where I've been cleaning the thread (individually selecting posts, and all quoted posts, trying to maintain thread continuity, etc etc) and the time spent babysitting and pruning a thread starts to creep into the 5-15 minute range. If I did this for every single instance in every single thread, I'd lose my job, and probably end up homeless under a bridge. I'd love to keep all the valuable discussion, information, opinions of positive contributors whenever I can, but there comes a hard limit where it starts to lose value... this is called a train wreck. Don't let things devolve into a trainwreck. If it means enough for you to complain about it in a post, you should start hitting the report button when you see it happening.

    It's pretty straightforward, at least in my eyes.

    What do you have to say about it?

    Keep it civil, or else this open ended communication will not be available in the future.

    Cheers,
    DD

    Edit: Also, like I've said openly in the past --> Feel free to contact me if you want to make recommendations, suggestions, just talk tennis, or talk TTW. My e-mail is available via my user options, or find me at my screen name @ gmail. Feel free to IM me if I'm available, it's generally a quick way to get in touch with me. Reported posts are also fast, because all of TW Staff and myself see them, but if you need something quick, IM works well :)
     
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  2. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    I think you're doing a stellar job. Every time I've reported offensive posts they've been moderated shortly after. Keep it up and much appreciated!
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2012
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  3. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Thank you for doing your job, I hope you take breaks.....Tards are fun :)
     
    #3
  4. Fee

    Fee Legend

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    And when DD says 'report it' he means click on that red triangle in the lower left corner of the offending post, and put a short sentence in the box explaining why you are reporting it. Don't post it the thread and say 'mods please remove this' use the report button.
     
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  5. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

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    You have my sympathies. I do sometimes feel like the playground snitch with the amount of reporting I do (which may not be that high actually?), but then it's the only way to actually deal with the nonsense that goes on. Expecting someone to stop winding you up by responding to them and letting them know you're wound up etc etc... it's insanity.

    In any case, here's a cake in appreciation of your efforts.

    [​IMG]
     
    #5
  6. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    Thanks all for the kind words, I've gotta give credit where credit is due, though. TW Staff definitely makes me look good often ;)

    I wouldn't say you're over-reporting at all :)

    I know what you mean by feeling like a "snitch," though, I suspect this is the big reason why there aren't way, way more reported posts. That's why it's in my sig. Just do it, it makes everyone's lives better. Do you prefer feeling like a snitch on occasion, or an entire forum that is so filled with garbage( that I don't like to browse it on my leisure time)?

    ;) Easy call, for me. Reporting posts actually makes a better environment to post in!
     
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  7. tusharlovesrafa

    tusharlovesrafa Hall of Fame

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    Help Mods!!!!this Place Is Going Crazy..
     
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  8. SFrazeur

    SFrazeur Legend

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    How do I add an avatar?
     
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  9. Evan77

    Evan77 Banned

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    Thanks for doing a good job. I know it's not easy.

    However, I got banned for 2 weeks because NSK reported me for calling him an idiot and a stupid troll ... I have never reported any of his trolling here ...so instead of banning a troll you ban me who comes over to actually discuss tennis.

    I simply get so frustrated with stupidity. I'm not talking about disagreeing with other posters. I respect everyone's opinion and agree to disagree ... the thing is that few guys like NSK, 6:1 etc. are poisoning this board by opening endless silly threads and you guys are doing nothing about it.
     
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  10. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    Morale of the story don't hesitate to report the trolls.
     
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  11. R.Federer

    R.Federer Semi-Pro

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    yh hopefully the threads get cleaned up thx again op
     
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  12. R.Federer

    R.Federer Semi-Pro

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    nah tis just off putting even when you respond to him with facts he just ignores thems and carrys on trolling no point having a discussion with him
     
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  13. sbengte

    sbengte Legend

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    Oh ! That's the reason you were missing during Wimby :(
    I had one of your lines in my sig for a while and many people who saw it would also remark why you weren't posting anymore.
     
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  14. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    DD,

    I think you are doing a great job. I owe you an apology for those 100 or so "stupid gifs" I once posted, ... must have wasted a lot of your time :( Thankfully, you didn't ban me.

    You are forgetting that we are falling for bait, and that drives up the "numbers" or whatever.

    I think mods need real proof of a duplicate account, not people's suspicions.

    I think this para from the O Post is really important:
     
    #14
  15. tusharlovesrafa

    tusharlovesrafa Hall of Fame

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    I also got banned for a week,don't know why!! I just hope mods can clarify why they ban people and give them more specific reason.
     
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  16. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Obviously, he is staying "within" the rules by not insulting others. Others are not when they react to him with insults. In case he derails threads, that can be reported but will probably result only in post deletion.

    From what I understand, calling people names is against the rules, whereas starting a "fawning" thread is not. Why not rate the thread one-star and not post in it?

    Troll Alert !!!!!!!!!!! (Lol :D )
     
    #16
  17. Evan77

    Evan77 Banned

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    well, I think I learned my lesson. Thank you :).

    I realize that is not easy to moderate any tennis boards. I'm a Computer Systems Engineer btw, and I know how easy is to open multiple accounts by simply using proxy servers. However, I also realize that mods here are not policemen.

    We even have a thread asking to ban some posters which is actually pretty legit as so many of us are simply getting frustrated by few guys here who troll here 24/7.

    Opening a thread to discuss, let's say Fed's FH, or Rafa's FH or Nole's ROS are legit threads and something we can actually talk about. However, opening a thead like 'Nadal is great' or 'Fed is the best' or 'Nole has great hair :) is just simply silly.

    I've been posting on other tennis boards for like forever. I decided to join TTW last year because it seems to be more balanced than let's say MTF (it's a jungle there, but still they have many super smart guys who truly love tennis), plus TTW seems to attract more knowledgeable guys. yet, we have a few guys here who are completely derailing any threads. i.e. someone opened a thread about the W final this year ... so we are supposed to be talking about Fed and Murry, but some trolls (and you know who they are) manage to turn it into something about Nadal ... I can go on and on
     
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  18. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    I hope you manage to be comfortable here as I am, just letting most of the BS slide. You can't argue with the skies when the rain drops and you certainly can't complain when special people are up and about. ;)
     
    #18
  19. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

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    First, thank you to the team for this thread and for your work.

    I have personnaly never reported any post, and that is clearly not because I haven't seen any who would have merited it! It's only that I'm not always sure that a post is really a spam or a troll-post, especially because I don't really understand your criterias to deleted thread or ban users. I think it could be usefull if we could have somewhere a kind of report of who and why someone has been banned. I typically see most post of 6-1 6-3 6-0 as trolling, but as their is so many of them and as he is still there, it seems to me that you consider this kind of user as legitimate.

    Another exemple are all these thread about a new record from RF, such as the total week at N°1, which I find utterly useless. I assume all tennis fan read other website on tennis and thus learn about thoose kind of record, and thoose thread never begin any interesting discussion.

    So the trouble for me is that you moderating policy is not completly transparent to me, and I don't want to bother the moderators with report which don't fit your policy.
     
    #19
  20. Bruce39

    Bruce39 Banned

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    ^^^ good post, seconded.
     
    #20
  21. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    Thanks for the responses, everyone! I'm in for another ~12 hour day at work, but I'll get to the suggestions and respond accordingly when I get some free time (hopefully soon). Keep 'em coming. I don't really mind if this turns into a complain fest, but I'll shed some light on the situation(s) in general, and hopefully people will at least understand what goes on "behind the scenes" better, and we can all work towards improvements. Like someone said, though, it all boils down to "proof" :)
     
    #21
  22. Walenty

    Walenty Professional

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    While you can't ban anyone for free speech, you should be able to ban them for spamming a board.

    Look at the first two pages of General Pro Player Discussion, more than half of the threads are pointless nonsense made by the same account.
     
    #22
  23. syke

    syke Professional

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    How about the 25 new Federer threads by McEnroeisanartist?

    This place is crazy... All these Fedturds and Nadturds should just leave...
     
    #23
  24. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    They'll get bored soon enough.
     
    #24
  25. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    Those threads were all created some time ago, and some poster Bruce something bumped all of them today, for some strange reason.
     
    #25
  26. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    My only piece of advice would be to monitor the boards closely during/after slams....the trolling and violating spikes during these times....hence all the spamming recently by certain fed and rafa tards.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
    #26
  27. 6-1 6-3 6-0

    6-1 6-3 6-0 Banned

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    Thanks for all your hard work, moderators. :D
     
    #27
  28. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    It's almost too bad you can't vote to ban posters.. I think if a poster is being too belligerent or disrespectful it would be nice to have the option.
     
    #28
  29. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

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    Yes thoose kind of thread are typically spam for me, whom I talked in my previous post. There are so many of them that a lot of threads, potentially interesting, fall very fast in the second page. But the fact is, thoose mcenroeartist thread recieve a lot of answer, so I feel a bit illegitimate to report them. I'm thus intersted at knowing what other users (and the moderators) feel about them.

    Edit: Actually after having a closer look at thoose thread, some of them are interesting. It would still be much better if they weren't all poster during the same hour.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
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  30. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    I second this notion


    I already know nameless and clarky would vote me out, lol

    Its all good one love :)
     
    #30
  31. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    The hubris is amazing
     
    #31
  32. syke

    syke Professional

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    How about giving posting rights to those who actually bought something from TW?

    This way we can minimize the multiple accounts issue.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
    #32
  33. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    I'm unhappy with anyone who makes 20 useless threads a day and can't stick to the topic.
     
    #33
  34. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    But fellow Fed fans like me wouldn't.

    On second thought if this idea came to life there would be no Nadal fans here as most of the Fed fans would vote against them.
     
    #34
  35. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    You really want THIS to happen to TW?

    [​IMG]
     
    #35
  36. 6-1 6-3 6-0

    6-1 6-3 6-0 Banned

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    I haven't even made 20 threads in my entire posting history. :shock:
     
    #36
  37. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    I love how in the post you were responding to your name wasn't even mentioned but you felt the need to defend yourself, lol
     
    #37
  38. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    That's because all of them were deleted.
     
    #38
  39. syke

    syke Professional

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    I was thinking of something along these lines

    [​IMG]
     
    #39
  40. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    The second picture makes me want to pack a bag.....
     
    #40
  41. Bruce39

    Bruce39 Banned

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    And a bikini or one piece?
     
    #41
  42. syke

    syke Professional

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    You will first need to buy a ticket to the Maldives and book a room at the Shangri-la.
     
    #42
  43. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    I'm not 100% sure, but my guess is that SLD76 is a guy, so unless he is bringing someone with him, I don't think that question is relevant.
     
    #43
  44. Bruce39

    Bruce39 Banned

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    Oh really? I kinda read the opposite. Posts sound very female.
     
    #44
  45. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    As the moderator (not an admin, there's a bit of a difference), I ban based on the rules only. Spam and trolling is based on feel, especially if a troll is "experienced" (will explain below).

    Silly threads (in isolation) are not against the rules. Obviously, if a poster is starting 20 threads at once and pushing all other content off the front page, this is obvious spam (I'll be dealing with Mr. Mcenroe and Bruce39 after responding to this thread). On a quick glance of the first page, I only see one thread started by 6:1 (this might change after cleaning up Mcenroe's garbage, of course). I'd much rather err on the side of being lighter handed rather than heavy handed. If I were to ban every single person who was rude/argumentative, GPPD would be 50% smaller (guaranteed.)

    I will always "do nothing about it" IF no rules are broken. Obviously the spam and trolling needs to be dealt with on a post by post basis, and I will review based on reported posts. If someone reports a post, and it is not specifically against the rules, I will leave the thread/post unless/until an established pattern shows itself. This is a lot less common than you'd think. I'd urge you to make a note to check posting history if you feel that the person is spamming/trolling. This is NOT obvious on a single post basis, if the troll is doing a "good job" trolling.

    Regarding your ban (I didn't look up the history, so this is a general statement): If you called someone an idiot, and/or went overboard/blew up, you fell for the troll's trap. The best way to deal with it is to ignore and report. If no one were to indulge the trolls, they'd quickly have no other option but to move on. This is the ideal situation, but it never happens (so I don't blame people for arguing/responding). The point is, if you broke a rule, you deserved the ban. I have no doubt in my mind that many people who do this are respectful, contributing posters, and I truly regret that things come down to these types of situations, but as a moderator, I'm restricted to enforcing the rules, so I can't change that.

    Yep, and PLEASE PLEASE... DON'T report the post with justification like "why aren't you doing anything about this guy?" or passive aggressive comments like "I am going to take my business elsewhere." I could go on and on with "justifications" that do NOTHING to help us do our "job." Cite a rule, and leave it at that. If the poster is going wild and spamming/trolling/bumping old threads, state so, and request that the poster's history be checked, and we will do so.

    Another thing: If you report a post, just leave it alone. There are so many cases where I'll take a look at a reported post, and the reporter was the one that started the argument, and/or decides to insult the reportee directly after the fact. That only sheds a bad light on everyone, and may trigger a trainwreck/flamewar. Just report and move on.

    If you have proof of such, please forward it to me via e-mail or a reported post. If I can't prove it's an alternate account, I can't ban XYZ. If you are stating it as fact, prove it, and I'll be happy to ban :twisted:

    If you can't prove it, and someone's just being annoying, it doesn't help me as a moderator. "clear spamming" might be the case, but I can't bring down the hammer on every poster that's being annoying, it'd be a worse place for it if I were to be heavy handed. I personally appreciate the not-too-heavily-policed atmosphere.

    Yep, which is why I recommend ignoring the poster if they're not going to contribute in a meaningful way. Add to ignore lists and/or urge others not to respond.

    No problem. I enjoy gifs, but I feel that they very rarely have a place on a forum like TTW. Luckily, you posted them from largely the same source, so removal was easy ;)

    And yes, I require proof. I'm happy to ban spammers/trolls, but I'll always err on the side of "benefit of the doubt," because I don't want this forum to feel like one of those "police state" forums.


    If you checked your profile, there would be a reason. There are justifications for almost every ban, and the user can view these. I'm actually considering a sticky for "What should I do if I get banned?" People are quick to generate new accounts, when they should think about their actions, first.

    It's "clear" to you, but I have to be reserved in my judgment. If/since there's a pattern to the trolling, I'll look into it with a different light. If I were to ban every poster that bumped dead/old threads (sometimes strictly to troll), I'd have banned a lot of people that didn't deserve it. If there's a pattern, report with examples, and it'll help your case. Thanks for the example(s), I'll look into it after I finish with this.
     
    #45
  46. Rippy

    Rippy Hall of Fame

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    Well, 6-1 6-3 6-0 was doing exactly the same as what bruce39 was doing. Earlier on today, the front page was filled with NSK and nadalwon threads that were bumped by 6-1 6-3 6-0. It is currently filled with mcenroeisanartist threads that were bumped by bruce39.

    So, given that you've said you'll be "dealing with" mcenroeisanartist and bruce39, I think it would only be fair if you had a look through 6-1 6-3 6-0's recent posts as well, since he's been doing exactly the same thing as bruce39.
     
    #46
  47. Bruce39

    Bruce39 Banned

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    Sorry, I'm not sure which rule I've broken. I was simply posting in some interesting thread highlighting statistics.
     
    #47
  48. Bruce39

    Bruce39 Banned

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    That's exactly right. Moreover, the thread which I posted in were all very recent. I just thought they were interesting. I have no idea who this macenroeartist is.
     
    #48
  49. Bruce39

    Bruce39 Banned

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    Just want all of the good posters on here to know, sometimes it's noble to take one for the team. I almost feel like the Christ.
     
    #49
  50. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    Don't bet on horses b/c you are wrong and bruce is right, as I've said before, I have melons, not a twig and berries.

    And no bikini, but a nice swimsuit :)
     
    #50
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