Really sick of all this talk about Ferrer being a hardworking grinder.

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Clay lover, Jun 30, 2012.

  1. Clay lover

    Clay lover Hall of Fame

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    He's much more than that. He's more aggressive on fast courts than say Nadal or Murray, his groundstrokes are not the hardest struck but he hits them heavy with good consistency. His forehand, in my opinion, is a major weapon on fast surfaces. Yet, we hear that **** day in day out about how he's a grinder with no weapons and how he works his a** off just to retain that #5 ranking.

    I seriously wonder how many people have actually watched his matches. I think a lot of them are judging Ferrer based on the fact that he's short, but he's much more than just hardwork and determination.
     
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  2. Carsomyr

    Carsomyr Hall of Fame

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    I love Ferrer, but his main weapons are his determination and his footspeed. He's put together some good wins against Murray, but his forehand really isn't a weapon against Fed, Nole, or Rafa.
     
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  3. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Bc it's the truth.
     
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  4. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

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    I've seen his forehand mentioned quite a few times actually, it gets respect.
     
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  5. TomT

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    I agree. He's a very talented player. Great shot placement -- and I'd call that a weapon.
     
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  6. CRWV

    CRWV Rookie

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    He was aggressive because Roddick seemed content to hit his groundstrokes to about the service line. After watching Ferrer v Roddick, then Murray v Bagdahtis, Ferrers forehand is nowhere near Murrays.

    You're trying to say he's not a grinder? :lol:
     
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  7. BeHappy

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    When Ferrer beat Nadal in the USO there were huge threads about his forehand, there was one enormous thread about how his forehand was better than Blake's.

    People who actually watch tennis outside the top 3 know how good his forehand is. It is one of the top 10 biggest forehands on a hard court.

    Federer
    Nadal
    Djokovivc
    Berdych
    Del Potro

    ...are the only players on the tour with a bigger forehand than Ferrer (Blake injured/old, Soderling is sick).

    Davdenko is the worst though. Drives me crazy when people call him a grinder. He's literally blown Nadal off the court with his power so many times it's unbelievable.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2012
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  8. TomT

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    I agree that Murray's forehand is better than Ferrer's. I also agree that Ferrer is a grinder. But grinding at that level involves not just consistent stroking, but very accurate placement, and I'd call that a weapon (because it continually puts pressure on his opponent), which is why I agreed with Clay lover.
     
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  9. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    Great player despite physical shortcomings. Most unaesthetic top player you might ever see. Employs a blue collar hard working style, not a graceful or artistic player. Manages to stay in top 5 area of rankings because of phenomenal grit and tenacity. Very mentally tough ball basher counter puncher, will fight to the finish every single ball, every single match. Very admirable and inspiring player, unique in his own special way. I know a lot of local park players who have high respect for David Ferrer.
     
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  10. cork_screw

    cork_screw Hall of Fame

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    When people say he's a hard working grinder, uh, i don't think anyone means that as a negative on him. Umm, from my understanding that is a compliment. Way to "stick up" for ferrer when nobody really bad mouthed him.

    I still don't understand this thread.


     
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  11. merwy

    merwy Legend

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    Yep, I also think shot placement is what he does best. Nadal is a grinder that puts huge pressure on the opponent with his topspin moonballs. Ferrer is a grinder that uses shot placement as a weapon.
     
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  12. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    I've seen Blake play a couple of times in person. In New Haven. His forehand is (or at least was then) really something special. Ferrer's (just judging from watching on TV and videos) doesn't seem nearly as powerful at the max of both.

    But I agree with you that the power and consistent accuracy of Ferrer's forehand put him in the elite in that regard.

    Re Davydenko. Yes, one can still see remnants of the consistent power he had in his prime.
     
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  13. tudwell

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    Both his groundstrokes are very solid and his forehand can be a point-ender, but he always has to work his way toward hitting a winner. He's no Berdych or Del Potro who can blast a winner from anywhere in the court. Ferrer works the point and sets things up till he gets a short ball he can unload on. He plays much longer points than a lot of guys, and combined with his great speed, defense, and never-say-die attitude, that gives most people the impression that he's a grinder - and most of the time he is. That doesn't mean he can't or doesn't dictate play sometimes, but it's a lot harder for him to do that against, say, the top 4 than against a passive Roddick.
     
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  14. TheF1Bob

    TheF1Bob Banned

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    Ferrer the bore, you knew??? :lol:

    The guys a good player no doubt, can play good tennis when he's on it.
     
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  15. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    :) I took Clay lover to be dissatisfied with his apparent perception that maybe some people think of Ferrer as a pusher, which is of course quite different from a world class grinder who hits with power and accuracy. Against all but the best players in the world Ferrer would be hitting winners right and left, imo.

    Then again, maybe I don't understand the thread either. Anyway, I have nothing else to do at the moment, and I enjoy watching Ferrer play, and can only dream about hitting the ball as hard and as accurately as he does.
     
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  16. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    hes an obvious pusher
     
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  17. TheF1Bob

    TheF1Bob Banned

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    LOL he ain't no ****** though. ;)
     
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  18. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Okay, I concede. :)
     
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  19. Clay lover

    Clay lover Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, Ferrer is an obvious pusher :D Wimbly QF now.
     
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  20. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Ferrer is a poor man's Michael Chang.
     
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  21. skip1969

    skip1969 Legend

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    god, who isn't a grinder . . . according to all the "experts" on this board.
     
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  22. Timbo's hopeless slice

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    lol, Limpin', not according to Todd Woodridge, he compared them but commented that of course Ferrer hits 'much heavier off the ground and has a bigger serve'
     
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  23. BigGriff

    BigGriff Semi-Pro

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    As other posters eluded to this... I am confused as to what the poster is trying to clarify. I think the term "grinder" is positive.

    Ferrer is a fighter on the court. I like his style of play. He gets a ton of pop despite being small in stature. His court positioning and movement is top notch. Ferrer also hits consistent penetrating ground strokes. I actually never hear that he has no weapons.

    Anyone that faces him in any draw knows they gotta be on their A game.
     
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  24. WhiskeyEE

    WhiskeyEE Legend

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    The only reason he's called a grinder is because he's a short Spaniard (serious). I agree and I consider him more of a counter puncher like Hewitt.
     
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  25. WhiskeyEE

    WhiskeyEE Legend

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    A grinder is someone who engages in long rallies and waits for an UE. A shameless style that leaves one with no dignity. The term grinder definitely holds a negative connotation (for good reason) and is as big an insult as any.
     
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  26. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    You must be watching old Chang videos on fast-forward. :p

    Ferrer is a rich man's Chang imo. He outguns him stroke for stroke without doubt.
     
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  27. BigGriff

    BigGriff Semi-Pro

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    ^^Your description sounds more like a pusher. (especially the no dignity part lol)

    I consider a grinder a counter puncher. Sucks that it holds such a negative connotation. The guy is a beast on the court. Fundamentally sound and fun to watch live.
     
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  28. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I agree, but both Chang and Ferrer have power on their shots and arent entirely defensive, so while Ferrer is a poor mans Chang, that isnt a bad thing.
     
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  29. BeHappy

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    Ferrer hits way bigger off the ground than Chang did, is nowhere near as fast, his serve is nowhere near as good as Chang's improved his to be. They are really nothing alike at all. Chang is far more like Murray. The only thing Ferrer and Chang have in common is stamina and hustle.

    Ferrer, despite being Spanish, hits the ball very flat off both wings. Big, flat forehand.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2012
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  30. WhiskeyEE

    WhiskeyEE Legend

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    I guess it's a bit subjective. To me there are a couple different types of grinders. The pusher type like Simon who just get the ball back in play without much thought about it. And the more methodical type like Nadal who play percentage tennis to their opponent's weaker wing until it breaks down.

    Counter puncher to me is a subset of aggressive baseliner. Anyone who tries to end points with winners is really.
     
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  31. 30fifteen

    30fifteen New User

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    Ferrer is definitely a grinder, but I wouldn't call him a defensive player. He's consistently looking for an open spot through deep penetrating strokes and attacks. Whereas Roddick who is also a grinder but seems more content on having a neutral rally and waits for an error.
     
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  32. dcdoorknob

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    They showed a stat in the first set of the DelPo match of average groundstroke speed. It was: DelPo 74 mph, Ferrer 73 mph.

    Delpo is obviously known as a big hitter, but Ferrer was essentially hitting the ball just as hard as he was, only with better direction and fewer UEs. Doesn't exactly seem to fit the mold of only a grinder to me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2012
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  33. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    I agree. The way Ferrer was able to beat Del Potro in straight set was amazing. Chang wouldn't be able to beat Del Potro, who was playing well at this year Wimbledon.
     
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  34. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    I've been saying that for ages yet people still refer to Ferrer as a grinder and a CC specialist, the truth is, his game is best classified as say an aggressive counter-puncher.

    2012 is the first time Ferrer ever reached a FO SF in his career, on the other hand he reached USO SF already in 2007 and was very close to making a slam final in 2011 AO (he had a SP to go 2-0 up on Murray in that match).

    He's better on faster surfaces IMO because they allow him to dictate easier with his FH.
     
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  35. Fugazi

    Fugazi Professional

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    David, is that you? Accept the truth buddy!
     
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  36. WhiskeyEE

    WhiskeyEE Legend

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    He's right though. If he was a 6' tall American, no one would call him a grinder.
     
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  37. rafan

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    No he is not a grinder. He has a great tennis brain and is very clever - dangerously clever for Murray. He has an amazing backhand and some of his shots are incredible. As one commentator said yesterday he knows the length and breath of the courts and so many of his shots hit the mark. I would dearly love to see this guy win Wimbledon. I have enormous respect for him and he is so understated and I really hope he gets to the final
     
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  38. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    To quote the late, great hockey coach Herb Brooks: "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard." Working hard was, is, and always will be a weapon in any of life's endeavors, not just in sports.
     
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  39. rafan

    rafan Hall of Fame

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    I quite agree with the hard work bit but Ferrer is one on the talented players because he is a watcher. He quietly makes a study of how his opponent is playing his game and quickly works out his weaknesses. He wastes no time in worrying when he is a point down because he has already worked out how he is going to get the next one ..and he so often does
     
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  40. okdude1992

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    have you ever seen ferrer play live? i have multiple times. his forehand is not that big. he can hit it flat and deep when he steps into it, but it doesnt have the shear speed/pace as alot of other pros i've seen, especially if hes not on balance.

    there are tons of guys you didnt list who hit the forehand bigger than ferrer: tsonga, almagro, verdasco, isner, nishikori, dolgopolov ect...

    davydenko was also a grinder. but you are right about his power. that guy was a machine in his prime. he could take the ball so early, and hit so heavy!
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012
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  41. valiant

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    The "experts" here are GRINDER's too. They keep consistently arguing over a point over and over and over ........................ showing great endurance, consistency and mental fortitude :D
     
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  42. Murrayfan31

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    Ferrer is all speed. His groundies are average. Nothing special. Deal with it.
     
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  43. Cosmic_Colin

    Cosmic_Colin Professional

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    He hit some pretty impressive forehands yesterday vs. Delpo. Good at the net too.

    Yeah, he doesn't have any fantastic weapons in his game, but he is a solid 7/10 in all areas except speed and fitness. And who says they aren't worthy?

    In the unlikely event that he wins Wimbledon then he would have earned it, going through Roddick, Del Potro, Murray, Kohlschreiber/Tsonga, Fed/Djokovic.

    I'm a fan of aggressive, all-court tennis (Federer, Tsonga) and what Ferrer has been doing so far is closer to this than Nadal, and just as good as Djokovic.
     
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  44. xanctus

    xanctus Semi-Pro

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    I have seen in person in Auckland, New Zealand...hell he is 5th in the world because he's good and in addition to that, he runs fast and well. But, he is amazing player!
     
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  45. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Except Chang hit heavier off the ground and had a bigger serve, especially with that 28 inch Prince. And, Chang was stronger, faster and just a better overall athlete. Todd Woodbridge? Doubles panzy!
     
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  46. Orion3

    Orion3 Semi-Pro

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    Lmao!

    10 char
     
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  47. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    As a casual fan like you that's foolish to denigrate Todd's opinion who is a pro tennis player and actually played against Chang.
     
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  48. fed_rulz

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    limpin has watched Ferrer and chang live, so his opinions > todd's
     
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  49. Magnetite

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    I'm getting sick of people calling water water.
     
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  50. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Have to say that the current Ferrer v Murray match is really boring from a spectators perspective. Don't get me wrong - they are super high level players that would tripple bagel any of us - but they play such a careful high % game that its just not very entertaining at all as a spectacle.

    Rosol v Nadal was lightyears more interesting that this. At least Rosol went for his shots. I'd rather watch a Tsonga / Delpo / any other match up etc than Murray v Ferrer.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012
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