Regular Ibuprfen use

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by tennisplayer, Aug 4, 2006.

  1. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    While the above is technically true, it has little to no practical value for those of us who take 600 of motrin an hour before we hit balls. This does not qualify as "regular use". A glass of water will kill you if you drink too much of it, so what?

    The FDA let this stuff go over the counter for a reason, think about it...
     
    #51
  2. MasterTS

    MasterTS Professional

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    I take about 500mg of Naproxen (brand Alleve) a few times a week. I would take it more but always afraid what could happen if I take too much lol.

    I had a bad reaction to something I hate and had also taken Motrin beforehand.. motrin apparently amplified the bad reaction.... stay away from motrin hehe
     
    #52
  3. croatian sensation

    croatian sensation Professional

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    Yup, just wanted to say that..NSAIDS aren't candy.
     
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  4. You cannot be serious !!!

    You cannot be serious !!! Rookie

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    No, its not regular use, but its habitual isn't it? That's how drug addiction begins - what next? Something stonger like Codeine or Vikaden? How about Steroids or EPO? - but that's a different story.

    The point I'm trying to make is that pain killers or anti-inflammatories are called that for a reason - to get rid of pain when you have it, not to prevent it, and really shouldn't be used prophylactically or to increase performance. BTW isn't the recommended dose 400mg at a time?

    Jus cos its over the counter doesn't mean its candy. I'm sure the FDA didn't intend for people to use it as a sports prophylactic or performance enhancing drug.
     
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  5. You cannot be serious !!!

    You cannot be serious !!! Rookie

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    Come on, if Ronaldo and some of the other players on this thread have floating bones in their ankles, tennis elbows and arthritis in their knees aren't popping pills regularly before each game, i don't think the rest of us should be - get my drift?
     
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  6. croatian sensation

    croatian sensation Professional

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    You cannot be serious...you have my full semi-professional support (it's only semi-pro till I get my degree in pharmacy, after that it will be pro :)) on this topic.
    Possible gastritis and stomach ulcer are enough to keep me from regular NSAIDS use, let alone heart-attacks.
    I was pretty (and negatively) surprised to see the amount of people here who are taking serious pain-killers on a regular basis. Can someone explain me the point? We're not pro-players here...why risk your health?
    I am not one of those people who can endure pain and not take medication. I take ketoprofenum (NSAID as well) at least once a month, when I have serious abdominal cramping... but a regular prophylactic use...that's not good at all. Especially in 400mg dosage. (referring to the original post)
     
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  7. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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  8. You cannot be serious !!!

    You cannot be serious !!! Rookie

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    andfor, thanks for the link - pretty useful information.

    Croation sensation - i agree with you totally - we are not pros and for us, pain should be good, pain is our friend. TAKE IT LIKE A MAN !!!! Are you man or amoeba ??? (sorry ladies)

    Unless you end up with a sprained ankle, pulled or torn tendon/muscle or suddenly grew an extra knee or elbow or wrist then pop away but normal muscular aches - ahhhh that feels GOOD !
     
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  9. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    You can't be serious. Not your moniker, I really mean it: you're not serious are you? Motrin leading to narcotic use? Are you really from the Nixon-era drug scare tactics? How old are you, have you ever experienced chronic pain? Are you aware that at a certain age you can be 100% certain that a few sets of tennis will cause pain? Do you even know how Motrin works? It is a far better pain preventer than treater. It's primary use is as a pain prophylactic, sports or otherwise. Does anyone think that Motrin is a "performance enhancing drug"? The standard Rx dose is as high as 800mg BTW.
     
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  10. Mark S. Hogan

    Mark S. Hogan Rookie

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    I don't know. I went from milk to beer. Coincidence? You tell me. :)
     
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  11. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Right!!!
     
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  12. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Must be the container, started with breastmilk too.
     
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  13. You cannot be serious !!!

    You cannot be serious !!! Rookie

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    Mate, FYI - I am 32, never experienced chronic pain and yes I know perfectly well how Motrin or ibuprofen works....do you? The recommended dose here in Australia is 400mg 4 hourly PRN which is 2400mg dose per day maximum taken in 6 divided doses, but not 800mg at one go. In the States it may be different but i seriously doubt it. BTW how old are you? And if you're calling NSAIDs as a pain prophylactic, then you are WRONG. Have you ever heard of "pulse therapy"?

    I am not classifying NSAIDs as a performance enhancing drug but from reading some of the posts on this thread it seems like some people are using them as one. What I'm concerned is long term use, people develop drug tolerance and they will find that 400mg 6xper day doesnt alleviate their pain, so they either exceed the recommended dose, have a GI bleed or renal failure and die, or they try some different pain killers and develop a drug problem.

    And i did say it was ok for people with musculo skeletal conditions or people with an injury or pain. What i have a problem with is people taking it before a game to prevent the usual muscular aches and pains that they get during or after a match.... (as described on thispost)

    Also, If one have chronic unrelenting pain lasting more than 3-6 months than NSAIDs don't usually do squat anyway.

    I AM SERIOUS THIS TIME
     
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  14. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Play tennis with a 63 yr old who takes at least 400 mg of Motrin before playing. He plays nearly everyday. Just believe or hope there is a way to alleviate or eliminate pain some other way. In fact, that is my goal, a pain-free day.
     
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  15. You cannot be serious !!!

    You cannot be serious !!! Rookie

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    OK, I get your drift. I misunderstood this whole post completely. My message is directed to young people especially schoolies who play competitive tennis who pop drugs to win.

    I would also be careful with over the counter medication, just cause you can buy them in the supermarket does not mean its safe, ok?

    If you are over fifty, and love your tennis, and find that taking NSAIDS before playing eases your pain, by all means go ahead but i would recommend the following

    1) Find out what's causing the pain first - see your doctor / physio
    2) Do not exceed the recommended dosage
    3) Be careful with drug interactions (most people >50 are on more than one medication for blood pressure or cholesterol - check with your doctor first)
    4) Don't stop doing the things you love just cause some guy 1/2 your age tells you to ;)
     
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  16. LuckyR

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    A couple of things. Yes, in the US 800mg is a common dose, in fact it comes as a 800mg tab. The dosing is three times a day for the standard 2400mg daily dose. NSAIDs are commonly and actually best used before pain starts because as a prostaglandin inhibiter, it is far better to prevent the production of those then try to play "catch up" after the injury (unlike narcotics). That's why women have better luck with them than arthritis sufferers (periods are predictable, arthritis flares are not).

    Personally, I'm 45, ie old enough to have reliable and predictable pain with tennis, alas. Message me back in 8 years and give me your opinion...
     
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  17. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    Tolerance to a NSAID? You cannot be serious. I've never seen reports in the literature of tolerance to such a drug; tolerance generally occurs where there are receptors that proliferate (the central nervous system being the obvious example) and that seems not to be the mechanism of action of this class of drug.
    ________
    HeavyWoman
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2011
    #67
  18. You cannot be serious !!!

    You cannot be serious !!! Rookie

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    You are right, what I meant was :

    "Drug tolerance" in a non scientific sense of a word. Long term NSAID use will only be of benefit if there is an ongoing inflammatory process (usually rheumatological) such as Rheumatoid Arthritis. Even then, research has showed that pulse therapy is the most effective way.

    NSAIDs are useful for controlling acute inflammatory response. After some time, NSAIDS will stop working because there is a mechanical cause (like in playing tennis), degenerative cause (like in osteoarthritis) or chronic pain (when the pain fibres become hypersensitised +/- behavioural problems). That's when people start popping more or different pills.
     
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  19. You cannot be serious !!!

    You cannot be serious !!! Rookie

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    I did not mean tolerance due to induction of liver enzymes etc.......
     
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  20. You cannot be serious !!!

    You cannot be serious !!! Rookie

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    "Anti-inflammatory therapy in sports injury. The role of nonsteroidal drugs and corticosteroid injection.Leadbetter WB.
    Department of Orthopedic Surgery, Georgetown University, Washington, DC, USA.

    Strong statements regarding the efficacy of anti-inflammatory medication are based primarily on experience with rheumatic disease. Such experience, over 32 years, involving more than 400,000 injections in more than 12,000 patients, has led Hollander and associates to conclude that "no other form of treatment for arthritis has given such consistent local symptomatic relief in so many for so long with so few harmful effects." Such endorsement has not been clearly transferrable to sports medicine experience. Anti-inflammatory medications can unquestionably affect excessive inflammation. Whether this tissue effect is significant with regard to enhancing sports performance has been difficult to prove. To quote Oriole baseball pitcher Jim Palmer, "cortisone is a miracle drug ... for a week!" Perhaps this is because in rheumatologic disease, inflammation is the problem, whereas in sports injury, performance recovery depends on restoration of both the injured tissue and its kinetic environment. The tendency to place an inflammatory label (i.e., "itis") on sports-induced pain has promoted the value of anti-inflammatory treatment while risking a de-emphasis of the role of physical rehabilitation and even well-timed surgical repair. If pain and signs of inflammation are persistent, repeated efforts to turn off the body's alarm is not a substitute for finding the cause of the fire. Indeed, to remove the "fire alarm" of pain from the onset of an injury can clearly place the athlete in great jeopardy with respect to tissue overload and failure. Perhaps the greatest criticism that can be raised regarding anti-inflammatory treatment as a sole solution in sports injury is that it tends, in its worst application, to be too passive and dependent a modality and does not challenge the athlete's sense of responsibility to properly train, condition, and develop correct technique. Thus, anti-inflammatory therapy may succeed only if the patient has been instilled with the proper expectations and responsibilities. Increasing knowledge of the pathobiology of sports injury and the various treatments required for complete recovery has led the experienced clinician to rely far less upon anti-inflammatory medication as a long-term solution. Nevertheless, until more biologically selective drugs become available, the judicious application of anti-inflammatory therapy remains a useful, albeit adjunctive therapy for sports injury. The successful clinical rationale is best arrived at not by random selection but by cautious individualized prescription."
     
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  21. You cannot be serious !!!

    You cannot be serious !!! Rookie

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    In 8 years time I might be playing golf instead;) and saying women are predictable......... hmmm how i wish that was true (sorry ladies, again)

    Seriously, I agree with

    "That's why women have better luck with them than arthritis sufferers (periods are predictable, arthritis flares are not)."

    But by saying this aren't you contradicting yourself ie you are taking NSAIDS to prevent an arthritis flare that you don't know is going to happen from playing sports. Is the pain going to be mechanical or inflammatory?

    I am unware of scientific evidence that supports prophylactic use of NSAIDS in sports pain. The prophylactic use in treatment of period pain +/- migraines are well documented.

    Check out these studies

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=10362386&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=9641434&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=12580656&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum


    But hey, if it works for you, then by all means go for it.
     
    #71
  22. LuckyR

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    Perhaps I was being obtuse. I don't advocate using Motrin for prophylactic use in arthritis, because flares are unpredictable. They are typically used after the pain starts in arthritis (as you have so far advocated in sports pain), my point was that when an event is predictable, like: "I'm playing tennis at 5:30", then you will get better relief by loading beforehand than you will by waiting until you get home from the match to start treatment.

    As to what the drug companies have chosen to finance to study, you'd have to be very naive to not understand the financial incentive to pour money into PMS studies as opposed to studying playing tennis in geezers like myself. I'll not be holding my breath and playing in pain because of a lack of "studies", I have all the info I need.
     
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  23. El Diablo

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    Excellent citation above, Serious. If you need to take an analgesic every time you pursue your hobby, you've got the wrong hobby. I'm well into middle age and take my baby aspirin (for circulatory prophyllaxis) most days but that's about it. If aches become bothersome, I take a few days away from tennis. My sense from this board is that a lot of people just play too much. Frequently read people saying they play 3 or 4 hours a day 6 days a week, or whatever. That's nuts at any age. Read yesterday that Agassi can barely walk down a flight of stairs now at the ripe age of 36. At least he has a bank account to show for it all.
     
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  24. Mark S. Hogan

    Mark S. Hogan Rookie

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    My take is that ibuprofen has been around for a long time and very little has been found wrong with reasonable use of it. On the other hand, they have found problems with many other pain medicines that have been on the market for a lot shorter time.

    I recently had a guy quit tennis because of the soreness he felt before during and after tennis. He wouldn't try even 400 mg of ibuprofen before player because of the fears he had about medicine. I think it was a shame to lose him and think it is not excessive abuse to take recommended doses for the recommended uses.

    http://www.relieve-migraine-headache.com/ibuprofen_dosage.html
     
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  25. dennis1188

    dennis1188 Semi-Pro

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    I find simple 'pearl barley' (boiled light clear broth) helps for purging lactic acid (swollen/sore joints). I try to stay away frm too much Meds and No more bleeding stomach ulcers frm advil.
     
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  26. waves2ya

    waves2ya Rookie

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    I surprised no one has brought up ligament laxity & NSAID's; search this forum and ye shall find...

    Anyhow - on to today's news: need NSAID's? Try naproxen (there are many other stories besides this one)...

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003256346_pain13.html

    I, however, stick to acetaminophen (which is an analgesic as opposed to NSAID) - and only when I *really* need it...
     
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  27. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Great comment as many of the tennis players in our city seem to dropout when they get into their 50s and when asked why, comment they no longer have those aches and pains associated with playing tennis.
     
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  28. You cannot be serious !!!

    You cannot be serious !!! Rookie

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    All in moderation IMHO - you've got to find the right balance between enjoying your hobby, the amount of pain you are going to experience after, the amount and type of analgesic or method of pain relief you are going to use after, the risk of that pain relief and the long term damage to your body.

    A recent study in Australis showed that voltaren which is probably the oldest (over 20 years), most reliable NSAID available has showed to increase the risk of cardiovascular disease and stroke by 4X in the elderly. I saw it in the news yesterday.

    LuckyR - it sounds like you have your mind made up. And it sounds that you have done your own research regarding this topic. As i tell all my patients, if it works, go for it.

    Ronaldo - I agree totally with your last post
     
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  29. You cannot be serious !!!

    You cannot be serious !!! Rookie

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    IMHO drug companies will have more benefit in funding studies with regards to pharmaceuticals in the sporting industry. The only problem is getting the right results and convincing the legality of its use in sporting bodies.
     
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  30. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Btw, see guys at our club in their 70s and 80s playing tennis daily, even singles. Not one of those guys are overweight.
     
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  31. You cannot be serious !!!

    You cannot be serious !!! Rookie

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    Wow, that IS impressive.
     
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  32. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, maybe its better to stay slim if you want to avoid Ibuprofen, eh?
     
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  33. Mark S. Hogan

    Mark S. Hogan Rookie

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    I'm sure it would help greatly. Got a pill for that? :)
     
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  34. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Looks like it takes about 75 yrs to swallow it, kinda bitter in this country.
     
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  35. You cannot be serious !!!

    You cannot be serious !!! Rookie

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    It definitely helps - if you are carrying XS weight you would be placing more stress on your joints and muslces. Obesity is a well known risk factor for osteoarthritis, not that I'm calling anyone in this forum obese. Genetics and lifestyle are other risk factors.

    Some of the older and younger people at my club can probably beat me if we play a singles game. The older people don't look as flashy or swing as wildly but they seem to be able to place the ball in the most difficult to reach places. They are in their late 40s early 50s. The Tennis Australia kids on the other hand, are about 12 and the girls would beat me with a double bagle - easily. Even some of the 10 year olds could give me a run for my money. These kids play everyday, have had intense coaching ever since they can hold a racquet and play competitive tennis regularly.

    I am only a social competitor, sometimes at the park I hold a racquet in one hand and a beer in the other :D
     
    #85
  36. BORISK

    BORISK Rookie

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    Is Ibuprofen a treatment or just pain killer?
     
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  37. Geezer Guy

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    I've been told that Ibuprofin will reduce swelling and inflamation. This will, in turn, reduce pain. Ibuprofin can be even more effective at reducing swelling and inflamation if taken BEFORE the swelling and inflamation start.

    Example - I used to take Ibuprofin for my sore knee's after playing tennis. I talked to my Dr. about it at a checkup, and he suggested I take the Ib's BEFORE I play tennis. This keeps the swelling and inflamation down as I play, and helps me recover faster after.
     
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  38. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Just another day playing the World's Greatest Game, my brother...
     
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  39. Geezer Guy

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    ... word ...
     
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  40. You cannot be serious !!!

    You cannot be serious !!! Rookie

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    There is no scientific evidence - but if it works, then do it. If you end up with arthritis later on you can try and sue the drug company after
     
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  41. You cannot be serious !!!

    You cannot be serious !!! Rookie

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  42. heycal

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    So if BP goes higher than desirable... what will happen?
     
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  43. Rafa's best friend

    Rafa's best friend Banned

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    Tennisplayer:
    Yes taking 2 advil definietely helps tone downthe inflammation and pain before the match but you have to be careful about that relaxing the muscle stuff. Advil is Anti-inflamatory not a Muscle relaxant. So you must still do the stretching exercise before you begin, Don't forget...
     
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  44. xtremerunnerars

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    I have to stop taking ibuprofen. I had stopped for about two weeks (400 mg a day previously) during the end of xc season.


    My blood was so thin from running combined with ibuprofen (ordered by therapist) that my nose would bleed quite frequently. I tweaked my wrist and took a pretty good shot at my knee when hitting a backhand, so i took some merely to cut on the swelling while i iced both injuries.

    Whaddayaknow, 3 nosebleeds (bad ones) in 24 hours.
     
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  45. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    Nosebleeds are more often a sign of elevated blood pressure, which can also be caused or exacerbated by ibuprofen.
     
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  46. tennisplayer

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    Thanks, Rafa. I do at least 10 minutes of warm up and stretching before I start hitting, and 20 minutes afterwards.
     
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  47. tonysk83

    tonysk83 Semi-Pro

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    I feel very old. I take ibuprofen all the time, usually 3 of them, I don't know how many mg's each of them are, but it definitely helps knee pain and inflammation in my jacked up knee. I am almost 18 btw.
     
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  48. rk_sports

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    I've a friend who swears by ibuprofen and takes it right after tennis game/practice.
    I remember reading some side-effects (kidney) of ibuprofen ... but is there any latest study/research on this? Is it okay to have it often?
     
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  49. Frank Silbermann

    Frank Silbermann Professional

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    You mean like long-term adverse effects from Colas? They're still on the market. When Gilbert was on the pro tour he was making ten times as much money as he would ever again be able to earn. At that rate of income, I too would be willing to slightly damage my body to keep going for another year or two.

    Think about this -- the best way of knowing whether an activity is damaging your joints is by whether you feel pain while doing it. But if you've taken a pain-killer...
     
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  50. El Diablo

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    There's no uncertainty in the med literature that NSAIDs can cause kidney damage when used regularly. But what's more troubling is that they can cause spike increases in BP which put you at risk of other illnesses. Since those BP effects typically take years to occur, it's difficult to make a clear association to the NSAID when doing time-limited studies, so they appear safer than they really are. It's medicine -- use it if you NEED to, not for little aches.
     

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