Return a heavy ball from the backhand

Dan Huben

Semi-Pro
I have a consistent hitch that takes my OHBH out of play when facing heavy top spin players. I just cannot get in front of the ball. I track the ball ok enough, but when the ball hits and ricochetes I'm usually late and usually swinging through on the wrong plane.

IN the past few months, I've worked on watching the opponent more, so I can better understand the ball that is coming, and have figured out slices, and flat drives, and little ts. It's those ones that hit and explode.

Any tips for timing or judging the level of the ball? There are a lot of degrees of freedom here, height, distance from bounce, court type, etc. Whatever tip you offer, general or situation specif will be appreciated. Even off it doesn't help me directly, it will help eventually.

I do have a new coach and I'm not adrift alone now, but I'm still interested in what tw has to offer

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StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
I have a consistent hitch that takes my OHBH out of play when facing heavy top spin players. I just cannot get in front of the ball. I track the ball ok enough, but when the ball hits and ricochetes I'm usually late and usually swinging through on the wrong plane.

IN the past few months, I've worked on watching the opponent more, so I can better understand the ball that is coming, and have figured out slices, and flat drives, and little ts. It's those ones that hit and explode.

Any tips for timing or judging the level of the ball? There are a lot of degrees of freedom here, height, distance from bounce, court type, etc. Whatever tip you offer, general or situation specif will be appreciated. Even off it doesn't help me directly, it will help eventually.

I do have a new coach and I'm not adrift alone now, but I'm still interested in what tw has to offer

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

What kind of 1hbh do you have? Do you open your chest slightly at contact (aka wawrinka, a bit more circular ) or keep it more closed (like fed, a bit more flat and direct)?
I think wawrinka's style allows later contact and seems to handle this ball better. With Feds style, one tactic which works (and he used against nadal pretty well last yr at the AO final) is to block the ball back on the rise before it has a chance to jump up. Another (physically exhausting) strategy is to run back and hit the ball when its descending. Easier to do initially, but you will be at the mercy of drop shots or sharp angles.

Another thing is how well grooved your backhand is. Do you do the mini circle thing while you track the ball and hit it on the rise? Having a really well grooved stroke kind of enlarges your hitting zone IMO, and enables you to hit on the rise easier.
 

Keendog

Professional
I suggest in games block/slice them back for now and work on it with your coach. Shorter swing should mean its easier to make contact with ball (assuming you are right and just not reading it well).
 
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ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
I usually like the ball out from my body to get as much leverage and acceleration as I can to hit, but if someone is getting a ball up and on me quick I tend to take the ball closer in and more in front of me instead of to the side. As mentioned I also use more of a blocking swing at times.
 

Hmgraphite1

Hall of Fame
Been grooving my backhand lately with ball machine.
Some things I noticed,

I load wrist to radial deviation during takeback, this provided a lot more consistency and power

As the ball comes in cross court it seems to go through a point in my vision where I momentarily lose sight of it, my be a right eye to left eye thing or need to flex head head downward so the bridge of my nose doesn't block the view, or twist my neck with increased flexibity.

Taking it on the rise, if your late, your late, swing earlier before you want to until you start to see, feel the timing.

Using eastern bh mostly hitting flat bombs, sometimes move to the ridge just before swbh for more topspin.
 

steve s

Professional
I have trouble hitting a high OHB . I have chosen to play the ball on the rise in my hitting zone. There can be no waiting for the ball to come to you. Your feet are a must.
Have a level head.
 

Dan Huben

Semi-Pro
Thanks. Sometimes the bounce is fast in strike zone, sometimes it’s higher at my shoulder (I’m 6-5). Moving back each time is tough. My coach is working on improvements to my movement all around. My lessons have never been so physical. It’s extended live ball rallies and I’m dying while he is smooth as silk. In between he gives shot and technique recommendations.

It’s this shot that’s my bane.


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Dou

Semi-Pro
does the coach have a REALLY good bh?

make sure you have someone who can teach a MODERN bh.. something like this

many are still taught the old school stuff, which will have difficulty in today's game full of poly-produced heavy spin balls.

the key difference is an ESR that allows the racket head to travel much higher without opening up the face... this makes it possible to 'cover' the high jumping incoming balls.
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
Thanks. Sometimes the bounce is fast in strike zone, sometimes it’s higher at my shoulder (I’m 6-5). Moving back each time is tough. My coach is working on improvements to my movement all around.

Sounds like a footwork issue, if you're that tall.

OHBH takes better footwork than 2HBH or than most FH. Especially if trying to hit on the rise.

Kuerten might be a good model for you for a tall guy with excellent footwork on his 1HBH. Watch how he handles Bruguera's spinny shots, he either takes them on the rise, or backs up to take them deep:

 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
does the coach have a REALLY good bh?

make sure you have someone who can teach a MODERN bh.. something like this

many are still taught the old school stuff, which will have difficulty in today's game full of poly-produced heavy spin balls.

the key difference is an ESR that allows the racket head to travel much higher without opening up the face... this makes it possible to 'cover' the high jumping incoming balls.
all great. but it is still tough to handle those high backhands when RAFA like topspin is coming at you to that side
 

Dou

Semi-Pro
all great. but it is still tough to handle those high backhands when RAFA like topspin is coming at you to that side

Fed solved that problem right? a little tweak and he's changed the mentality, instead of 'tough to handle', now he rips them cc.. the single biggest key in winning Aus 2017 and the sunshine double.

anyway - amateur balls are different, but there shouldn't be too much problem.. I don't even rely on footwork. never back up, just rip it up high or slice it down.

dead relaxed wrist (hence closed face even when hitting above eye level), and a relaxed swing. no problems.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Fed solved that problem right? a little tweak and he's changed the mentality, instead of 'tough to handle', now he rips them cc.. the single biggest key in winning Aus 2017 and the sunshine double.

anyway - amateur balls are different, but there shouldn't be too much problem.. I don't even rely on footwork. never back up, just rip it up high or slice it down.

dead relaxed wrist (hence closed face even when hitting above eye level), and a relaxed swing. no problems.
it is a problem. . how did Roger solve the problem ?
 

Dou

Semi-Pro
it is a problem. . how did Roger solve the problem ?

winning the last 4 H2H should be enough to declare problem solved... Lube and Edberg may have given him some pointers on the bh.. but the strategic difference is visible... he attacks Rafa's fh a lot more with this shot now.
 

Dan Huben

Semi-Pro
Fed solved that problem right? a little tweak and he's changed the mentality, instead of 'tough to handle', now he rips them cc.. the single biggest key in winning Aus 2017 and the sunshine double.

anyway - amateur balls are different, but there shouldn't be too much problem.. I don't even rely on footwork. never back up, just rip it up high or slice it down.

dead relaxed wrist (hence closed face even when hitting above eye level), and a relaxed swing. no problems.

I think there in lies the problem. I can watch someone wind up and really attack the ball in my ranks and they miss it. I’m prepped for something that never happens. I haven’t learned to relate incoming ball to bounce character yet


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NuBas

Legend
I have a consistent hitch that takes my OHBH out of play when facing heavy top spin players. I just cannot get in front of the ball. I track the ball ok enough, but when the ball hits and ricochetes I'm usually late and usually swinging through on the wrong plane.

IN the past few months, I've worked on watching the opponent more, so I can better understand the ball that is coming, and have figured out slices, and flat drives, and little ts. It's those ones that hit and explode.

Any tips for timing or judging the level of the ball? There are a lot of degrees of freedom here, height, distance from bounce, court type, etc. Whatever tip you offer, general or situation specif will be appreciated. Even off it doesn't help me directly, it will help eventually.

I do have a new coach and I'm not adrift alone now, but I'm still interested in what tw has to offer

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

The OHBH takes longer to develop than forehand initially but once down comfortably, it should be the simpler stroke in terms of less moving parts. Clean one handed backhands naturally extend forward more than say a forehand, so you catch the ball further out in front. So if you have a hitch, that most likely is complicating your stroke and should be reworked.

For me with any type of ball, hard/fast or high bouncing, as long as I don't allow the ball to go past a certain point in front of my body then I am able to make good contact, any bit past that imaginary wall then you could end up mistiming and misfiring. I think it also takes mental judgement, spacial judgement but I would just try to keep the ball in front as much as possible.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
it is a problem. . how did Roger solve the problem ?

winning the last 4 H2H should be enough to declare problem solved... Lube and Edberg may have given him some pointers on the bh.. but the strategic difference is visible... he attacks Rafa's fh a lot more with this shot now.
Honestly, the Fedal mechanic is less about Fed solving the problem and more about Nadal's movement changing the dynamic of their rivalry.

Fed's backhand last year was not better than his backhand during his best years, but Nadal's ability to retrieve and counterattack great shots off the Fed BH is just not there anymore.

There are plenty of points in any of their 2004-2008 matches where Fed unleashes an awesome BH and Nadal takes like five steps and sledgehammers back another topspin forehand that Fed can't do anything about.

These days, the same backhand elicits no reply from Nadal, so Fed wins those exchanges by default.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Honestly, the Fedal mechanic is less about Fed solving the problem and more about Nadal's movement changing the dynamic of their rivalry.

Fed's backhand last year was not better than his backhand during his best years, but Nadal's ability to retrieve and counterattack great shots off the Fed BH is just not there anymore.

There are plenty of points in any of their 2004-2008 matches where Fed unleashes an awesome BH and Nadal takes like five steps and sledgehammers back another topspin forehand that Fed can't do anything about.

These days, the same backhand elicits no reply from Nadal, so Fed wins those exchanges by default.
Then why is all the tennis commentators saying , Now with that Midplus size racket, Federer is now able to rip the backhand up the line with pace off RAFA's crosscourt backhand. He can now do that and before he couldn't control that shot. so that is why Roger is now turned the table, not cause Rafa is slow now
 

Dou

Semi-Pro
Honestly, the Fedal mechanic is less about Fed solving the problem and more about Nadal's movement changing the dynamic of their rivalry.

Fed's backhand last year was not better than his backhand during his best years, but Nadal's ability to retrieve and counterattack great shots off the Fed BH is just not there anymore.

There are plenty of points in any of their 2004-2008 matches where Fed unleashes an awesome BH and Nadal takes like five steps and sledgehammers back another topspin forehand that Fed can't do anything about.

These days, the same backhand elicits no reply from Nadal, so Fed wins those exchanges by default.

legit point - a slower rafa is not as good as a slower fed.

fed's bh is better though. word on the street is that Lube made his racket drop a little deeper to have better control... to my eyes that makes sense.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Then why is all the tennis commentators saying , Now with that Midplus size racket, Federer is now able to rip the backhand up the line with pace off RAFA's crosscourt backhand. He can now do that and before he couldn't control that shot. so that is why Roger is now turned the table, not cause Rafa is slow now

You mean cross-court forehand, NOT cross-court backhand.

Anyway, the AO backhand to Nadal’s forehand was somewhat unique. There were a lot of elements that determined the result of the match; it’s not as simple as Fed’s backhand suddenly becoming some sort of super weapon.

For starters, Nadal had a longer and more physical SF against Dimitrov than Fed did against Wawrinka. To add to that, the surface at the AO that year and this year was significantly faster and lower bouncing, so when combined with Nadal’s lowered physical intensity, this resulted in Nadal’s forehand not bouncing up as high as normal.

In fact, court level footage showed that Nadal’s cross-court reverse forehands were only clearing the net by a foot and only kicked up to just above Federer’s waist level. Anyone with a half decent backhand could have pulled glorious backhands when fed balls like that. The whole Fedal dynamic is based primarily on whether Nadal is able to kick his forehands up to Fed’s head. On points where he could do just that, he usually won, but for extended parts of the fifth set, Nadal was unable to do so.

Then you add Nadal’s significant loss in foot speed (and by extension his defence + ability to turn defence into offence), and it becomes apparent why Fed was able to win that match. Even then he had to come from a break down playing his best tennis all year to get the job done.
legit point - a slower rafa is not as good as a slower fed.

fed's bh is better though. word on the street is that Lube made his racket drop a little deeper to have better control... to my eyes that makes sense.
Better than this?


I don’t think so. It’s just that Fed’s backhand has been garbage for so long that any semblance of rediscovering his prime level backhand looks like a new peak backhand level in comparison. Any version of Fed from 2004/5 to even 2008/9 would have given 2017 Fed a beatdown in a backhand to backhand exchange. 2006 Fed backhand would have killed 2017 Fed in a backhand to backhand exchange, yet Nadal that same year still beat that version of Fed’s backhand.
 
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watungga

Professional
If one heavy ball coming in the direction of your backhand, and low bouncing, you must be able to swing the racquet without much effort from your shoulder and with only a light grip.

That's the best ballpark to start with and solve the issue.
 

Dou

Semi-Pro
technique wise Federer has been improving in many fronts.. wouldn't be a surprise to have a better bh.

blake's ball means nothing... a low flat ball has never bothered fed.
 

Dan Huben

Semi-Pro
The OHBH takes longer to develop than forehand initially but once down comfortably, it should be the simpler stroke in terms of less moving parts. Clean one handed backhands naturally extend forward more than say a forehand, so you catch the ball further out in front. So if you have a hitch, that most likely is complicating your stroke and should be reworked.

For me with any type of ball, hard/fast or high bouncing, as long as I don't allow the ball to go past a certain point in front of my body then I am able to make good contact, any bit past that imaginary wall then you could end up mistiming and misfiring. I think it also takes mental judgement, spacial judgement but I would just try to keep the ball in front as much as possible.
Well that's just it. I'm prepped and I think it's waist high and boom it's shoulder high. So I guess the original question is evolving into three thoughts how to find how far I need to be from the bounce or how high I need to prep the swing and when to start it. I'm late if I wait for the bounce on a heavily spinning ball.

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NuBas

Legend
Well that's just it. I'm prepped and I think it's waist high and boom it's shoulder high. So I guess the original question is evolving into three thoughts how to find how far I need to be from the bounce or how high I need to prep the swing and when to start it. I'm late if I wait for the bounce on a heavily spinning ball.

Seems you have problem judging incoming balls, you gotta use your eyes. From my own experience, most recreational players even advanced ones do not possess that change-of-pace kick after the bounce as a professional would so you should be able to deal with this with practice and getting to know your opponent. It should be obvious if a ball is gonna bounce high or skid flat after the bounce from watching it travel of the net to you. You then use the proper body alignment to deal with these, such as getting lower with your stance for hard flat skids or leaning or tilting your body upwards a bit to align yourself with that higher ball. A video would help but I think you may just need practice.
 
I have a consistent hitch that takes my OHBH out of play when facing heavy top spin players. I just cannot get in front of the ball. I track the ball ok enough, but when the ball hits and ricochetes I'm usually late and usually swinging through on the wrong plane.

IN the past few months, I've worked on watching the opponent more, so I can better understand the ball that is coming, and have figured out slices, and flat drives, and little ts. It's those ones that hit and explode.

Any tips for timing or judging the level of the ball? There are a lot of degrees of freedom here, height, distance from bounce, court type, etc. Whatever tip you offer, general or situation specif will be appreciated. Even off it doesn't help me directly, it will help eventually.

I do have a new coach and I'm not adrift alone now, but I'm still interested in what tw has to offer

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
Hello. Two things which bothers many people on OHBH are: not having/sustaining wrist lag (90 degree angle between wrist and forearm) and framing/mishitting the ball (even if your shot is not going how you want, you should still hit the ball in the middle of the racket). Once you got the these down, you mentioned that topspin shots bother you, so here are two things which can help: A) As topspin ball climbs on your racket, keep a closed racketface compared to when receiving flat shots (you might be doing this adjustment already on forehand side, so do it on backhand too), this helps on shoulder high ball too. B) Very high topspin has to be countered with topspin, so you need to learn how to hit topspin backhand (imagine swinging toward the contact zone with a lagged wrist, and then just before contact sort of "flick" the wrist to the side and up, shoulder joint and forearm must also participate in this "flick"). Hope my description of how to hit topspin backhand is not super confusing, its hard to explain more clearly without recording a video or in person I guess. Have fun out there!
 

Kevo

Legend
Well that's just it. I'm prepped and I think it's waist high and boom it's shoulder high. So I guess the original question is evolving into three thoughts how to find how far I need to be from the bounce or how high I need to prep the swing and when to start it. I'm late if I wait for the bounce on a heavily spinning ball.

If your coach is good you should really be talking about this with them. They are going to be a lot better at giving advice related to this than people on this forum who haven't seen you hit, much less seen the specific shot you are struggling with.

There have been lots of good generic advice for your backhand, so maybe some of that applies and maybe it doesn't. However, what you absolutely don't want is to be out on the court trying to work on this backhand issue and be thinking about 12 different things to work on.

Talk with your coach and figure out the 1 or 2 things that are high priority and work on those.

If the main problem is simply judging the ball, there is no easy fix for that. You just have to practice against more of those types of shot. It's just experience that allows you to be a good judge of the ball. That's just lots of repetition.
 

Morch Us

Hall of Fame
If you have trouble with positioning on the topspin coming at you on backhand, it comes with enough practice. But try to set up your shot from a bit further behind than what you do now, so that if you judge the depth/kick wrong you can move up into the ball using small steps, rather than have to adjust back at the last minute. I see that you are working with a coach. Any decent coach will definitely give you enough advices to make you hit a good topspin OH backhand.

If you have trouble controlling the ball coming into your backhand with a lot of topspin (irrespective of height of the ball), that just means you are not generating enough topspin on your backhand to counter the incoming spin.

Now I constantly see most coaches miss one specific item, which takes away a lot of the momentum of the "topspin" OH backhand swing. It is the timing of the racket drop. If your racket drop is happening "after" the forward swing (which happens a lot even with folks with relatively good OH backhands), it is stealing momentum of the upswing, which is essentially stealing the topspin. The same folks can generate tons of spin on slice (since they naturally start high before the forward swing on slices). The reason for why it is being missed is that, your technique would look good for naked eye since the racket still will have a good drop and low to high before hitting the ball, and it is hard to notice till you specifically look for it in a slow motion video.

I have a consistent hitch that takes my OHBH out of play when facing heavy top spin players. I just cannot get in front of the ball.
 
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