Discussion in 'Racquets' started by VOLLEY KING, Mar 2, 2012.
yeah. that would be nice!
Glad to help out . Xoxoxo
hitman - what is the length of the es 133 normally? i didn't realize when i tried it that it was a superlong. that definitely makes sense why i found it slightly sluggish and cumbersome up at net.
It's 28-1/2". The extra length provides great reach, but hinders the maneuverability IMHO.
My previous racket, the Wilson Hyper Carbon Hammer 2.0, was also extended length, so I cut about 3/4" off of it. It plays pretty well now, but the frame is so stiff that it also hurts my arm/shoulder.
Tom uses it in USTA seniors. It's not the right choice for me but works for him :
gotcha. that makes sense. i find 27.5 inch sticks about my limit for extended length. i hit upper hoop in regular length sticks. wonder if extended length helps hit more dead center.
couldn't you just choke up on the es 133 and see if that alleviates the problem before taking a saw to it?
I just don't have that level of self control on the court. No matter what length racket I use, I always end up gripping the racket all the way at the end, with the butt end in the middle of my palm. I always have a nasty callus in the middl of my palm, gets irritated and sore, PITA.
One of the 4.5 guys I play with uses a Wilson Outer Limits (135 head, 28-1/2" length). He always chokes down on the racket quite a bit. I just can't do it for more than a few minutes, then I forget and lapse back to my old ways.
Guess I'm just a recidivist. I've been called worse before....
OK, I finally got to hit with the Vortex ES 108 yesterday, hit for over an hour outdoors in a mild breeze. The racket is strung with MSV Hex @ 50 lbs, string is about 2 years old. The feel of the racket is unlike any other I have ever hit with, VERY plush and soft, feels like you're hitting with a foam rubber frame, with leather strings.
This racket is not nearly so powerful as the 133, requires a full swing to drive the ball deep. If I didn't take a full swing, the ball would invariably go into the net, or land quite short. After a while, I found that this really helped my strokes, and I got more and more consistent the longer I played. There was little or no trampolining at all. Even so, i found it fairly easy to drive baseline half-volleys deep into the court. A few times I got caught hitting a FH with the wrong grip, was able to zing back a FH slice with good pace and depth. Overall, I felt very comfortable with the racket. The few serves I hit felt very natural, went in the court with little effort.
Now I am ready to have the racket restrung, am wondering what strings to use. I have a package of Tecnifibre X-One Biphase 17g, and a couple sets of PowerMaxx Light Touch 16L natty gut. I am thinking of trying a hybrid setup at low tension. The previous owner of the racket recommended that I stick with the MSV Hex at 50 lbs, and I've also been reading about the WeissCannon Dual Reality hybrid setup, supposed to be very easy on the arm/shoulder.
So many options!!! Guess I will start with a hybrid setup, X-One crosses @ 50, PowerMaxx mains @ 45.
Vortex actually makes a great multi in 15 gauge that I liked very much.
I think I'll try a hybrid setup with the strings that I already have in my possession, see how I like them. Chances are that they won't last as long because of the thinner gauge. If so, I can try the Vortex hybrid string next.
BTW, I hit again yesterday, in a stronger breeze. After a very short time, I switched from the ES 108 to the 133. Wow, the 133 is the BOMB in the wind! It is so powerful that hitting into the wind it is EZ to drive the ball deep, just have to hit it high, with some top. Every shot I hit into the wind landed at least halfway between the service line and the baseline, and many were right on the baseline. I could whack BH slices as hard as possible, and they would flare out and settle right on the baseline, and then just DIE. Hitting with the wind was equally effective, 'cause I could easily slice the ball off both sides, keep the ball low.
The 133 is a fun racquet for sure .
Puts a smile on my face.
I think you may have called it right from the beginning and the 116 may be just right for you.
But if you love that powerangle then I think that's actually the best.
Fun to play around anyway.
There is a 116 for sale on the auction site, but the price is too high. It is listed with a "Best Offer" option, so if it doesn't sell, I might make a last-minute offer. I could end up with three different Vortex rackets!
The PowerAngle is a dead issue, at least for the time being. The frame is cracked, could be a design flaw.
Can't you buy another one?
Yes, I could buy another one. But one can only have so many rackets, and do any of them justice. I am encouraged enough by my experience with the Vortex rackets to want to complete my exploration of their capabilities.
The one drawback I see with the PowerAngle Grand racket is that it is several points head heavy, and I like the neutral balance of the Vortex. Also, there is some sort of vibration in the racket, not sure if it can be tamed with the right stringing setup. Several playtest feedbacks have mentioned this vibration. The demo racket I tried from TW was strung with Wilson NXT, and I didn't care for the feel. The one I bought at auction was strung with a poly @ 60 lbs. It played OK, but I was worried about the impact on my shoulder. So far, the Vortex rackets have not seemed to irritate my shoulder.
Good luck !
hitman -- assuming the powerangle or vortex sticks aren't too heavy - either static weight or swingweight - it's not too hard to get either balanced the way you like it. for the powerangle you can add a bit of lead or weight to the handle and even that balance out or even make it HL. just a thought when you come across a stick that does 95% of what you want but missing a certain something.
btw look at the specs of the prince O3 white that john isner is playing with. naturally his is leaded up pretty beastly but its:
100 sq. in. / 645 sq. cm.
Length: 27 inches / 69 cm
Strung Weight: 11.3oz / 320g
Balance: 4pts Head Light
Beam Width: 23-25-22 Tapered Beam
Composition: GraphitExtreme / Copper / Titanium / Tungsten
Power Level: Low-Medium
Swing Speed: Moderate-Fast
Grip Type: Cushion Fit
16 Mains / 19 Crosses
Funny you should say that. I was looking at it as well.
I really love that kid.
He just seems so nice.
Great to see an American finally back in the mix . He has won me over and I really hope he can win something . He is really exciting to watch .
But I digress .
VK -- i like the kid too. liked his comment regarding fed's lucky backhand lob in the 1st set tiebreak - he took it in stride and said he benefitted from a lot of luck this past week too. no complaints. it's a big if -- but if he can improve his groundies even more than he already has, he can crack the top 5 i think. i think he plays how i wish roddick would have in his prime - big serve, big forehand, and never let your opponents get any rhythm.
o3 white is a solid stick. nice weight stock and surprisingly comfy. only 65 stiffness and those huge holes makes for a soft ride.
Yeah he is a giant with a baby face. I think everyone likes him .
The stick looks really interesting . It's just the right weight and balance that I like......
I was surprised however how thick the beam was.
It must be powerful?
I watched the entire match yesterday, was struck with how easily Isner moves around the court, always seems to be in position without having to scramble. First set it seemed that he was playing well within himself, not forcing any shots, hitting good pace without trying to hit clean winners. As the match wore on, he started hitting out more, made a few more unforced errors. Federer just picked him apart with placement, combined with his usual pace and spin --- deadly combination.
Have to admire Fed for how he has risen to the challenges to his supremacy, elevated his game. What a champion! Hopefully Isner is now in that elite company for good.
Re his racket, noticed the comment about the comfy feel resulting from the wider string spacing. That's another reason I like the Vortex rackets, they feel so EZ on the arm/shoulder.
I have to hand it to Fed.....his returns were amazing .
Fed is the better player for sure.....but I just love this kid. I think everyone does.....he is a giant with a baby face. He is also really fun to watch.
I really hope he keeps it up. I would love to see the USA win a grand slam. Is great to see him in the top 10.
I'm glad you like the Vortex. They are very nice sticks. I have the 116 and just won't part with it. It's a great racquet and possibly their best doubles racquet.
It's like a 133 "light".....less power and more maneuverability . A monster at the net.
I think I mentioned that Tom (from Vortex) recommended that I cut the 133 frame back to 27-3/4" --- he says that what he uses for USTA play.
So, a few minutes ago I got out my hacksaw, cut 1/2" off the shaft, put a new gel-cushioned grip on the racket. I was afraid to cut off 3/4", thought I would go one step at a time.
I have a USTA dubs match this Friday afternoon, can't wait to get into competition.
Meanwhile, my shipment of PowerMaxx Light Touch natty gut came in, so I will get the 108 restrung ASAP to see how it plays.
OMG.....your kidding!!!! You are too funny.....I think you are as crazy as I am!!
Maybe I should have done that?? It's a very odd stick. It's definitely fun to play with.
That really does sound like a good plan I must admit. I never thought of doing that? You have to tell me the results .
But why can't you get the 116? Is Tom and Joe sold out??
Good luck with the 108! It's a bit more demanding than the 133. The strings will make a big difference.
You are pretty dedicated....sawing off the handle .....omg!!!
You complete me .
LOL! This is NOT such a big deal. I did the same thing with my Wilson Hyper Carbon Hammer 2.0, and it turned out just fine.
I tried to order an ES 116, but Vortex was back ordered, so I switched to the 133. I still might try to get my hands on a 116 --- might as well get acquainted with the whole family! The auction ends in 13 hours, so I might put in a "best offer" bid, see if it gets accepted. I kinda doubt it though.
We'll see. Meanwhile, going to a USTA practice team session tomorrow morning, so we'll see how the modded 133 plays.
One thing I've noticed is that the black color of the strings has alread worn off at all the string intersections. This beast might go through strings like water.
Lol...."the beast ".....perfect description.
I hope you get the 116.....it's probably the right one of ever there was one you liked.
Try the multi from vortex they are pretty good.
I'm really glad your enjoying the sticks. As you guys said "it puts a smile on your face."
Good luck in USTA!!!! I hope "the beast" works out for you.
You could always go illegal and use the Gamma Big Bubba 32", Dunlop Superlong Max 2.25, BBC Titan Graphite or Weed I.
Have you ever hit with them?
I've hit with all of them. Believe it or not the oldest, the Weed I (about 1977), plays the best; a little like the original Prince Classic just with a bigger head. It's illegal because the longest main string is ½” longer than allowed and the head is ½” wider than allowed. The Gamma is so long (3" longer than allowed) and so wide (12 ½”, the max allowed) you actually feel wind resistance when you swing! The Dunlop, which is "only" .25" longer than legal, is a bit better but its so powerful it's almost impossible to control your shots. The BBC is easily the worst playing with its enormous flex but it's also the coolest looking! The BBC's longest main string is 20 ½” long, 5” longer than allowed!
I woul love to hit with them.
Does it really give you an advantage or is it a gimmick ?
Speaking of illegal racquets.....I heard that the Head TIs7 is amazing! I've been dying to get my hands on one .
If you want to hit with a really fun illegal racket track down a Dynaspot movable mass racket. The head is filled with fluid which moves toward the tip as you swing. The result is like the Wilson hammer rackets on steroids!
I've see that thing on the net!!! Have you actually tried it???
I have! I've been collecting odd, unusual and illegal rackets for years. Unless they are NOS when I find them I always hit at least a few shots with each racket. The only exception I can remember making is for the Dunlop Twin Shaft since they are notorious for breaking at the welds on almost any shot.
Omg!!!!! There's someone else out there like me????
Awesome stuff......That Dunlop looks really cool.
But I'm seriously interested in that dynaspot. What is it like????
The best way I can describe the Dynaspot is to compare it to the Hammer or Power Weight system rackets except the extra weight is only there on contact. I know that sounds unusual but when you are not swinging the fluid settles to the bottom of the head and the racket feels almost head light; this quality makes getting racket head speed much easier than a typical head heavy racket. Because you can generate good racket head speed, because the racket is head light when you start your stroke, and still get the benefit of head heavy mass at contact you can really generate great power but you still have good control. In my view the Dynaspot technology certainly provides an advantage over a traditional racket and I understand why it's illegal. Kind of like spaghetti stringing - it works!
Show us some more of your collection!
Ok that does it !!!! I have to get one ! Thank you. I'm going to look on the bay. Thanks!!!
I have the spaghetti string. I have an old kneissel/Adidas strung with it.
It is certainly cool.....but not revolutionary . I don't really understand why they made it illegal. But I guess the pros know how to make it do really amazing things .
Take a look at a match from the late 70's on Youtube and you'll quickly see why spaghetti stringing was banned. By today's standards there was almost no topspin back then. Even Borg, the player with the most topspin off both sides back then, wasn't hitting what even average pros hit today. Spaghetti stringing allowed crazy, unpredictable, amounts of spin that even the best pros were not used to. Even Guillermo Vilas, who hit really big topspin for his day, complained that lesser players were getting an enormous advantage. That's why is was banned. With modern rackets and polyester strings (that snap back after contact like the spaghetti strings did) today's players can generate considerably more topspin than was possible in the 70's so spaghetti stringing, while still giving a spin advantage, isn't quite the advantage now that it was back then.
Oh believe me I am fascinated wit spaghetti strings .
I bought the racquet for $300 , and I plays with it.
I read everything I could and I even watched the nastase vs vilas match.
I think in the right hands it probably is devastating . But I didn't get that much of an advantage with it.
I'm sure however a guy like Nastase did !!
cuz you cant have fluid movin around in your racket, bro
where did you get it? i been trying to track one down for a while
That makes no sense.
The pro kennex kinetic series has all kinds of crap .....like little sand particles move all around the racquet . So why the hell not liquid ?
Here is the exact rule:
The whole point of the Dynaspot is to "alter the swing moment of inertia" and "affect the performance of the racket during the playing of a point." The point of the lead particles in the Pro Kennex rackets, according to the manufacturer, is to reduce vibrations and make the racket more comfortable to use. Check out this study.
So all dyanspot would have to do is say "our purpose is to reduce vibrations" and poof it's legal?
No! The fluid in the Dynaspot is free flowing; it travels all the way around the head of the racket and is designed to move toward the top of the head during your swing. In other words by design it "alter the swing moment of inertia." The particles in the Pro Kennex are en-capsulized and designed not to move "in the direction of the longitudinal axis of the racket" and thus it does not "alter the swing moment of inertia." This design feature makes the Pro Kennex legal and the Dynaspot illegal.
I have a pro kennex ....in fact I'm holding one right now. Those crystals do in fact move to the top of the racquet. I'm shaking it and I can feel it. But maybe I'm wrong and it just feels that way?
From what I understand, Pro Kennex got around the rule by putting the particles in "chambers" around the head and allowing the particles to move in a legal latitudinal direction (≈1/4 inch) but not an illegal longitudinal direction (≈12 inches). So, if the chambers in your racket are still intact, what you are probably feeling is the legal latitudinal movement. I know I can hear the particles move in my Pro Kennex but it doesn't seem like they move around the head. Unfortunately, the Pro Kennex is not clear so you can't see the particles moving. The fluid chamber for the Dynaspot is clear and you can see the fluid moving.
Do you think it should have been made illegal? Does it really give you that much of an advantage. ?
I looked on the bay and can't find one . Any chance you would part with yours?
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