RF: 1 more W to become the greatest W champion in history!

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by aphex, Dec 19, 2011.

  1. aphex

    aphex Banned

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    I'm sure we all hope he makes it!
     
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  2. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near G.O.A.T.

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    Relax folks, ...
    I would still consider Sampras to be greater...
     
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  3. aphex

    aphex Banned

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    Pretty irrelevant. They would have the same no. of wins and Fed would one more final.

    Plus, I don't remember Pete going 6 years undefeated on grass.
     
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  4. helloworld

    helloworld Hall of Fame

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    Neither did Federer. :oops:
     
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  5. celoft

    celoft Guest

    It would be great if he won 7 Wimbledons.

    He would have tied the open era record at the AO(4 with Agassi), Wimbledon(7 with Sampras) and USO(5 with Connors and Sampras).
     
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  6. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    Sure he did. Unless he played on grass before he turned 6.
     
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  7. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    But why???????
     
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  8. helloworld

    helloworld Hall of Fame

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    Federer won 5 straight Wimbledon before losing to Nadal in his 6th attempt, so no, he did not win it 6 straight years. Unless you consider Halle a major event to justify Roger's falsified greatness. :lol:
     
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  9. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near G.O.A.T.

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    Relax folks, ...
    The rigidity of people continues to amaze me. People use numbers as a pure argument far too often with the worst example being people who religiously see a player as greater than another because they have more Majors, as if 7 is insurmountable by 6. So many other factors come into play, and so it is far from irrelevant -- quite amazing really, isn't it.

    Lodger would have 1 more final but this doesn't render the opinion irrelevant, because tennis is far less black and white than this.

    There are various arguments one can use in coming to an opinion; one might prefer Fed's straight 5 and others Pete's 7 overall titles in 8 years. Others might try to examine the eras, specifically geared toward competition on grass. Others might examine specific stats from the tournament that give an overall impression of dominance on the surface.

    P.s. this opinion comes from a rabid *******:)
     
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  10. FEDERERNADAL13

    FEDERERNADAL13 Hall of Fame

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    He just said undefeated "on grass", not "at Wimbledon" ;) )
     
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  11. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near G.O.A.T.

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    Relax folks, ...
    Close call but I think Sampras showed slightly more dominant play at the tournament and had to deal with more genuinely excellent grass-courters, and also I prefer his 7 titles in 8 years to Fed's 6.
     
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  12. Eternity

    Eternity Semi-Pro

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    I don't know, I mean obviously it's not impossible but to me Fed's game has declined the most on grass.
     
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  13. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

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    While I still think Sampras is narrowly ahead of Federer unless Federer goes ape scat at this next Wimbledon, Factoring in the other grass court players can't really be used since the grass now is entirely different. I do generally agree on your stance though.
     
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  14. aphex

    aphex Banned

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    Laughable. Sampras lost far more games and sets than Federer during each player's winning years.

    Therefore, Federer has been more dominant.
     
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  15. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

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    But Aphex, that only means that he only face better players :)
     
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  16. Fredrik

    Fredrik Rookie

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    This is laughable.

    Fed lost at Wimbledon in 2002. Wimbledon marks the end of the grass court season. Fed was back on grass in 2003 and kept winning for 5 years. Counting the months when there are no grass court matches, after coming off a loss, is ridiculous.

    By your logic I am undefeated on grass. I swear; I´ve never lost a match on grass.
     
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  17. aphex

    aphex Banned

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    Nope sorry, he didn't lose a grass court match for 6 years with a 65 (grass) match winning streak.
    You can rest assured nobody cares about your stats though.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2011
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  18. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Sampras had tougher grass opponents that were tuned into their Grass games. Great serve, exqusite volleys from Ivansevic, Rafter, Kracijek, and Becker. He had to face tough guys....and sometimes he was vulnerable in the first week. The surface didn't give his opponents chance and himself chances. He had to play his chances at the right time.....and on grass things could change quickly. The downside is he lost to baby Federer and some other swiss guy he shouldn't have lost too.

    He never had a true grass court rival even though he got troubled by many players. He sucked outside of Wimbledon grass courts. Losing many times at Queens.

    Federer on the other hand may have faced a stronger field(not stronger grass courters except for Nadal, Roddick and Hewitt), but outclassed many of his competitors on grass. Hewitt, Roddick, Nadal were the only guys who troubled him on grass. Grass was more in baseline play....so he had many chances and so did his opponents. So it was tough in this regard too even thought a great serve is still rewarded. He had a true grass court rival who is Nadal.

    Federer may win more Wimbledons than Sampras and have a better grass court record. Plus he lost to Tsonga and Berdych who are good players and can play on grass real well.

    I would give Federer the better W champion in history title, since he would eventually have more Wimbledon, had a grass rival, the surface is slower meaning more equal to everyone, more all court tennis than Sampras, and etc.
     
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  19. aphex

    aphex Banned

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    What was Pete's longest undefeated grass streak?
     
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  20. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    But this was my point you see, if you don't use rigid numbers, then you're just left with wavering opinions that change for every person. They won't hold any meaning to the general public. It's my opinion that Donald Young would beat Sampras in his prime, that would make me sound crazy of course, but what's to prevent me from saying it? Numbers! You need numbers always to back things up.
     
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  21. BrooklynNY

    BrooklynNY Hall of Fame

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    This same logic is not applied when people say Pete > Fed at the USO.
    People just mention 5 consecutive wins, which is amazing, but not better.

    Sampras = 5 wins, 8 finals

    Federer = 5 wins 6 finals.


    Also, on faster surfaces, the probability of Bagels decreases drastically. Many sets are 6-4 7-5 6-3 type sets featuring 1 break.

    Fed is great, he dominated Wimbledon for handful of years during his time, but that's it.
     
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  22. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    The information is below:

    Pete Sampras
    1993 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Neil Borwick (6-7, 6-3, 7-6, 6-3)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Jamie Morgan (6-4, 7-6, 6-4)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Byron Black (6-4, 6-1, 6-1)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Andrew Foster (6-1, 6-2, 7-6)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Andre Agassi (6-2, 6-2, 3-6, 3-6, 6-4)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Boris Becker (7-6, 6-4, 6-4)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Jim Courier (7-6, 7-6, 3-6, 6-3)

    Sets lost at 1993 Wimbledon: 4
    Games lost at 1993 Wimbledon: 103

    1994 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Jared Palmer (7-6, 7-5, 6-3)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Richey Reneberg (6-3, 6-4, 6-2)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Chuck Adams (6-1, 6-2, 6-4)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Daniel Vacek (6-4, 6-1, 7-6)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Michael Chang (6-4, 6-1, 6-3)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Todd Martin (6-4, 6-4, 3-6, 6-3)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Goran Ivanisevic (7-6, 7-6, 6-0)

    Sets lost at 1994 Wimbledon: 1
    Games lost at 1994 Wimbledon: 78

    1995 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Karsten Braasch (7-6, 6-7, 6-4, 6-1)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Tim Henman (6-2, 6-3, 7-6)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Jared Palmer (4-6, 6-4, 6-1, 6-2)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Greg Rusedski (6-4, 6-3, 7-5)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Shuzo Matsuoka (6-7, 6-3, 6-4, 6-2)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Goran Ivanisevic (7-6, 4-6, 6-3, 4-6, 6-3)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Boris Becker (6-7, 6-2, 6-4, 6-2)

    Sets lost at 1995 Wimbledon: 6
    Games lost at 1995 Wimbledon: 109

    1997 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Mikael Tillstrom (6-4, 6-4, 6-2)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Hendrik Dreekmann (7-6, 7-5, 7-5)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Byron Black (6-1, 6-2, 6-2)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Petr Korda (6-4, 6-3, 6-7, 6-7, 6-4)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Boris Becker (6-1, 6-7, 6-1, 6-4)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Todd Woodbridge (6-2, 6-1, 7-6)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Cedric Pioline (6-4, 6-2, 6-4)

    Sets lost at 1997 Wimbledon: 3
    Games lost at 1997 Wimbledon: 88

    1998 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Dominik Hrbaty (6-3, 6-3, 6-2)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Mikael Tillstrom (6-4, 6-4, 7-6)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Thomas Enqvist (6-3, 7-6, 7-6)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Sebastien Grosjean (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Mark Philippoussis (7-6, 6-4, 6-4)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Tim Henman (6-3, 4-6, 7-5, 6-3)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Goran Ivanisevic (6-7, 7-6, 6-4, 3-6, 6-2)

    Sets lost at 1998 Wimbledon: 3
    Games lost at 1998 Wimbledon: 104

    1999 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Scott Draper (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Sebastien Lareau (6-4, 6-2, 6-3)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Danny Sapsford (6-3, 6-4, 7-5)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Daniel Nestor (6-3, 6-4, 6-2)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Mark Philippoussis (4-6, 2-1 ret.)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Tim Henman (3-6, 6-4, 6-3, 6-4)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Andre Agassi (6-3, 6-4, 7-5)

    Sets lost at 1999 Wimbledon: 2
    Games lost at 1999 Wimbledon: 77

    2000 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Jiri Vanek (6-4, 6-4, 6-2)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Karol Kucera (7-6, 3-6, 6-3, 6-4)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Justin Gimelstob (2-6, 6-4, 6-2, 6-2)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Jonas Bjorkman (6-3, 6-2, 7-5)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Jan-Michael Gambill (6-4, 6-7, 6-4, 6-4)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Vladimir Voltchkov (7-6, 6-2, 6-4)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Patrick Rafter (6-7, 7-6, 6-4, 6-2)

    Sets lost at 2000 Wimbledon: 4
    Games lost at 2000 Wimbledon: 103

    Total number of sets lost in Sampras' Wimbledon winning years: 23
    Total number of games lost in Sampras' Wimbledon winning years: 662


    Roger Federer
    2003 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Hyung-Taik Lee (6-3, 6-3, 7-6)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Stefan Koubek (7-5, 6-1, 6-1)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Mardy Fish (6-3, 6-1, 4-6, 6-1)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Feliciano Lopez (7-6, 6-4, 6-4)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Sjeng Schalken (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Andy Roddick (7-6, 6-3, 6-3)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Mark Philippoussis (7-6, 6-2, 7-6)

    Total number of sets lost at 2003 Wimbledon: 1
    Total number of games lost at 2003 Wimbledon: 81

    2004 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Alex Bogdanovic (6-3, 6-3, 6-0)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Alejandro Falla (6-1, 6-2, 6-0)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Thomas Johansson (6-3, 6-4, 6-3)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Ivo Karlovic (6-3, 7-6, 7-6)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-1, 6-7, 6-0, 6-4)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Sebastien Grosjean (6-2, 6-3, 7-6)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Andy Roddick (4-6, 7-5, 7-6, 6-4)

    Total number of sets lost at 2004 Wimbledon: 2
    Total number of games lost at 2004 Wimbledon: 78

    2005 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Paul-Henri Mathieu (6-4, 6-2, 6-4)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Ivo Minar (6-4, 6-4, 6-1)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Nicolas Kiefer (6-2, 6-7, 6-1, 7-5)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Juan Carlos Ferrero (6-3, 6-4, 7-6)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Fernando Gonzalez (7-5, 6-2, 7-6)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-3, 6-4, 7-6)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Andy Roddick (6-2, 7-6, 6-4)

    Total number of sets lost at 2005 Wimbledon: 1
    Total number of games lost at 2005 Wimbledon: 85

    2006 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Richard Gasquet (6-3, 6-2, 6-2)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Tim Henman (6-4, 6-0, 6-2)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Nicolas Mahut (6-3, 7-6, 6-4)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Tomas Berdych (6-3, 6-3, 6-4)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Mario Ancic (6-4, 6-4, 6-4)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Jonas Bjorkman (6-2, 6-0, 6-2)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Rafael Nadal (6-0, 7-6, 6-7, 6-3)

    Total number of sets lost at 2006 Wimbledon: 1
    Total number of games lost at 2006 Wimbledon: 68

    2007 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Teymuraz Gabashvili (6-3, 6-2, 6-4)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Juan Martin del Potro (6-2, 7-5, 6-1)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Marat Safin (6-1, 6-4, 7-6)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Tommy Haas (Walkover)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Juan Carlos Ferrero (7-6, 3-6, 6-1, 6-3)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Richard Gasquet (7-5, 6-3, 6-4)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Rafael Nadal (7-6, 4-6, 7-6, 2-6, 6-2)

    Total number of sets lost at 2007 Wimbledon: 3
    Total number of games lost at 2007 Wimbledon: 82

    2009 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Yen-Hsun Lu (7-5, 6-3, 6-2)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Guillermo Garcia-Lopez (6-2, 6-2, 6-4)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Philipp Kohlschreiber (6-3, 6-2, 6-7, 6-1)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Robin Soderling (6-4, 7-6, 7-6)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Ivo Karlovic (6-3, 7-5, 7-6)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Tommy Haas (7-6, 7-5, 6-3)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Andy Roddick (5-7, 7-6, 7-6, 3-6, 16-14)

    Total number of sets lost at 2009 Wimbledon: 3
    Total number of games lost at 2009 Wimbledon: 114

    Total number of sets lost in Federer's Wimbledon winning years: 11
    Total number of games lost in Federer's Wimbledon winning years: 508
     
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  23. CDestroyer

    CDestroyer Professional

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    There were much better quality grass court players during Sampras's career that he had to get through.

    Yes Sampras lost more sets but look at the competition between Sampras and Fed. Feds competition is laughable besides Nadal.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2011
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  24. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    "organs"? :confused:
     
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  25. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    If Federer's competition is laughable, then so is Pete's. Majority of Pete's 7 wimbledon titles were not as glory-filled as people remember. He whooped up on guys that he used to own badly like Ivanisevic (12-6), Pioline(9-0), and Courier(12-4 H2H).
     
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  26. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    23 matches, which he achieved on two seperate occasions:

    1. From the start of 1994 Wimbledon until losing to Krajicek in the quarter finals of 1996 Wimbledon. There were the 7 wins at 1994 Wimbledon, 5 wins at 1995 Queen's Club, 7 wins at 1995 Wimbledon, and then 4 wins in getting to the 1996 Wimbledon quarter finals.

    2. From the start of 1998 Wimbledon, until losing to Hewitt in the final of 2000 Queen's Club. There were the 7 wins at 1998 Wimbledon, 5 wins at 1999 Queen's Club, 7 wins at 1999 Wimbledon, and 4 wins in getting to the 2000 Queen's Club final.
     
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  27. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Ivanisevic was always a threat to Sampras on grass, and he did beat Sampras in the semi finals of 1992 Wimbledon without facing a single break point.
     
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  28. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    That was in the transition period Pete went through after he won the USO IN 1990. It took him a while to win another major (1993 Wimbledon). Once Pete found his gear at Wimbledon, Goran became a hopeless case against him in all the big matches no matter how well he played. You can say the same thing about Roddick. He was a serious threat to Federer with the way he was playing in 2004 and 2009 but people consider Roddick to be a laughable and worthless opponent.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2011
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  29. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    In the 1992 Wimbledon quarter finals, Sampras beat defending champion, Stich, who Sampras usually had trouble with, in less than 90 minutes. As for Roddick, apart from 2009 I honestly think Hewitt was more of a threat to Federer. The 2004 Wimbledon match was much closer than the breadstick and bagel suggests.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2011
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  30. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    Jesus, only lost 11 sets in 6 title runs? That's nuts!
     
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  31. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    No one who actually saw Roddick play in his best years should consider him worthless. Only idiot 12 year olds who parade around as Fed haters and Nad lovers think that way.. or should be allowed to think that way..
     
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  32. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Federer beat the defending champion in 2001 (Sampras), but he certainly was not ready to step up to the occasion and lost in the very next round, just like Pete.
     
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  33. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Pete lost because Goran was better on the day, not giving Pete a single break point to look at. I think Pete's game was ready to win Wimbledon in 1992, but he lacked experience, whereas Goran was in excellent form and had experience of a Wimbledon semi final from 1990.
     
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  34. Fredrik

    Fredrik Rookie

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    And when did the first match in this impressive 65 match winning streak take place?
     
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  35. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    And who exactly besides an old Becker was so tough for Sampras at Wimbledon? Ivanisevic? Henman? Or maybe Martin?

    Don't make me laugh.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2011
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  36. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    His first match at 2003 Halle, when he beat Sargis Sargsian 7-5, 6-1.

    Federer had 5 wins at 2003 Halle, 7 wins at 2003 Wimbledon, 5 wins at 2004 Halle, 7 wins at 2004 Wimbledon, 5 wins at 2005 Halle, 7 wins at 2005 Wimbledon, 5 wins at 2006 Halle, 7 wins at 2006 Wimbledon, 6 wins at 2007 Wimbledon (R16 match against Haas was a walkover), 5 wins at 2008 Halle and 6 wins at 2008 Wimbledon before losing the final to Nadal.
     
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  37. Fredrik

    Fredrik Rookie

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    Thanks. You have an impressive collection of data. Please don´t tell me it´s memorized, that would be scary:wink:

    Now; would you agree that this is a 5 year winning streak? (If you´re confused by my question, pls. check page 1 of this thread).

    Cheers,
    Fredrik
     
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  38. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Are you being serious? Goran was a threat to anyone on grass, and was consistently a title contender at Wimbledon, ironically winning the tournament when he was no longer considered a contender by the tennis mainstream. Henman was also a danger, although more flaky whereas Ivanisevic was volatile. As for Todd Martin, he beat Sampras in the final of 1994 Queen's Club, so yes, he was a serious threat in 1994 on grass.
     
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  39. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    It is a 5-year winning streak, yes, from June 2003 until July 2008. The 6 year thing is how long Federer went without losing a match on grass. Federer lost in the first round of 2002 Wimbledon to Ancic, and didn't play on grass again until the start of the 65 match grass-court winning streak at 2003 Halle.
     
    #39
  40. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Trumps Sampras easily.
     
    #40
  41. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Gimme a break, you really think Martin, Henman and Ivanisevic would be any threat to prime Federer on grass? Whatever.
     
    #41
  42. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    We can only guess.
     
    #42
  43. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    I don't know about easily. It is really hard to make a decision.

    Pete has 7 wimbledon titles, 10 total grass titles, and a W-L record of 101-20 on grass.

    Federer has 6 wimbledon titles, 1 runner up, 11 grass titles, and a W-L record of 102-15.

    It is hard to say one trumps the other by a wide margin.
     
    #43
  44. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    Mustard -- here's the problem with this argument. It is quite circular. Martin was a threat on grass because he beat Sampras. Ergo Martin is a great grass courter (do the same for other names, if you will)

    Now:
    Sampras' opposition on grass was filled with great grass courters. Do you not see a problem with this statement?

    I see the same happening with respect to Sampras' serve and Agassi's return -- they both are used as "evidence" of greatness in a circular fashion.
     
    #44
  45. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    The hypothetical victory for Federer would give a considerable lead over Sampras (in terms of grass titles, matches won, etc.)
     
    #45
  46. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Yup. No doubt about that at all. However, I don't think that will happen. Federer has been falling from grace year after year at Wimbledon. I bet next year he will get hit off the court by someone like Simon.
     
    #46
  47. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Well, Ivanisevic being a threat on grass for Sampras is like saying Mario Ancic was a threat for Federer. Or that Federer was in bigger danger of losing to Ancic at Wimbledon in 2006/2008 than ever to Hewitt or Roddick. Ain't that right, Mustard?
     
    #47
  48. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Well, Federer has lost to guys like Tomas Berdych and Jo-Wilfried Tsonga at Wimbledon, but not to someone like George Bastl :)
     
    #48
  49. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    If Federer won one more Wimbly title he'd have same amount of Wimbledons but more finals, more titles overall, better win %, longer winning streaks, bigger % of sets/games won..... and that leaves us, as always, with Samprastards last-ditch attempt to rescue Pete = he had tougher opposition.

    Luckily for Sampras Federer looks unlikely to win another Wimbledon.
     
    #49
  50. Fredrik

    Fredrik Rookie

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    I get that part, yes, but he didn´t play on grass between 2002 Wimbledon and 2003 Halle, did he? My point is that (close to) 1 year without loosing a grass court match when none are played should not be counted as an achievement. It´s worth as much as my flawless grass court record.
     
    #50

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