Rip My Serve to Shreds :-)

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Jonny S&V, Jul 15, 2011.

  1. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    Here it is, been working hard on getting my serve to match my rotator-cuff's trauma so it won't hurt it anymore, and here's what I've ended up with:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N36uo5tg0WY

    I can already see a couple things to remedy (better tossing arm position in the trophy-phase and more consistent step-up with my right foot), but I want to see if anyone sees more problems.

    NOTE: If anyone thinks my motion is still too fast, please refrain from saying so. If you think this motion is fast, you can see the progression of my serve from my senior year of high school to last November:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jjeuBqX1WM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIB-cYkjGQQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aWjNxhpn2M
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeDX7TKsukE
     
    #1
  2. FearOfTheDark

    FearOfTheDark Rookie

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    Your serve reminds me of Dolgopolov :)

    I kinda like it! :D
     
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  3. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    I have seen quite a few videos of people serving, and i have watched many people serve in person; however, i haven't seen a serve that good looking. Everything just flows, great knee bend and full arm extension, plus you end up pretty far in the court.
    Also digging the head-wear!
     
    #3
  4. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    I enjoy the complement, but I like to feel that my serve is slightly less sped-up (nowadays at least). :)

    It's the only thing that works anymore, haha. If I wear a hat, I have to tie it all back, otherwise it'll come from behind my ears and get in my eyes...
     
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  5. ATP100

    ATP100 Professional

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    When did you switch racquets?
     
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  6. Ben Hadd

    Ben Hadd Semi-Pro

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    Looks good and you have nice consistency with your shots it seems. I would say a little higher toss, but knowing what a bum shoulder can do, I don't toss very high anymore either. Maybe a little more wrist pop could add back some power?
     
    #6
  7. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    this seems to be a show-off thread.... show the whole package bro, a match or some unedited hitting or something

    who cares about your serve if it's already good.
     
    #7
  8. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    I used the M-Fil/AG 200 until my freshman year of college, then I used the Donnay Pro One International MP until this past March, where I tried my old AGs again and wondered why I switched. I was reduced to using one AG until May, when I got a player's package with Dunlop and got the Biomimetic 200s.

    I wish it was show-off thread, but if you think it's a show-off thread, I must be getting pretty good (gotta make you jealous y'know ;-) ), which means I'm going in the right direction. If I ever play a tournament match and remember to get someone to film it, you'll be the first to know.
     
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  9. mmeyer1

    mmeyer1 Rookie

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    Hey dude, what brand toaster did u film this with?
    :p lol jk nice looking serve, but wish the quality was better so I could see the action on the ball
     
    #9
  10. fuzz nation

    fuzz nation Legend

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    If you've got a repaired or mending shoulder, I think you could take some stress off it by getting your racquet up behind your head sooner. When the first move is to drop it below your waist as you wind into your motion, that racquet still has a loooooong way to go to get up to its set position before even being ready to release up to contact.

    I think Fernando Gonzalez has a motion with a good example of this "straight to the trophy position" sort of windup. If you use a low toss, that drastically abbreviates your wind up time. No way will you get caught needing to catch up to your toss as long as the racquet goes straight to its firing position. Avoid that rush to the ball and you'll avoid lots of mechanical stress in your motion. You might even feel smoother and more "loaded up" if you can delay your toss by just a fraction of a second.

    You've got a little back bend along with a little knee action in your windup, but if you want to take more heat off that shoulder, I'd recommend a more deliberate knee bend so that those big strong legs can make a bigger drive up through contact. Since you've got way more power in those legs than your arms or shoulders, go further in making them the primary drivers of that serve and that should take more stress off that shoulder, too.
     
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  11. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Beautiful service motion. Looks like a righty version of Neil Fraser. I wouldn't change a thing in that respect. The only thing I can think of that might be an issue in match play is to slow it down a bit at the beginning of your motion and gradually accelerate to contact. I suspect that, IF you have any consistency problems, it's due to the inevitable variations in your toss, balance, etc., inherent in a rushed swing. I also think you'll gain power by accelerating more gradually because the tension built up from the beginning of your swing can actually slow you down. Staying relaxed in the beginning can loosen you up and allow more racquet head speed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2011
    #11
  12. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    Cut your hair you hippy.
     
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  13. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, I apologize for that, I spliced two videos together and needless to say, the program I use doesn't render very high quality vids. I use a RCA Small Wonder, which has very good quality, but for whatever reason, the program won't keep it in such quality. I might try to re-upload it...

    I completely understand what you're saying, and that's something that I've been working on gradually (if you look at my first vid to this one, I feel the lag was way more pronounced).

    Legs are definitely the next step, obviously my motion as it is doesn't take much energy in the least, but I should definitely be trying to keep my shoulder as healthy as possible.

    Haha, you hit the nail on the head, that does happen during matches. The tighter a match gets, the faster my motion is. Something to work on for sure...

    Why you gotta be hatin' dude? You should be lovin' the hair, I could make it into a mullet and get superhuman powers regarding the TalkTennis hockey challenge. :p
     
    #13
  14. tennisnoob3

    tennisnoob3 Professional

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    i agree, he looks like will ferrell.

    your service toss is too low.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2011
    #14
  15. USERNAME

    USERNAME Professional

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    Thats a nice simple and quick motion, doesnt look jerky at all. Bet it doesnt break down!
     
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  16. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    guga returns!!! definite resemblance to kuerten w/ the hairdo & bandana...

    back on topic: serve looks awesome.
     
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  17. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    Not at all helpful...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2011
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  18. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    Not really, as long as I don't speed up, otherwise there's barely anytime between the toss and the hit, which can lead to some dumb missed serves...

    Thanks. The reason I'm growing my hair out is to donate it. Trust me, if I had a choice, I'd have extremely short hair. It was 93 deg with 90% humidity today, I was dying...
     
    #18
  19. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Nice looking serve overall.
    Main thing I would suggest is to work towards launching more up and slightly less forward in the overall motion.
    Very good overall though.
     
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  20. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    I've been told this by a couple other people, but the main reason I want to be moving forward so much is to that I can get that extra step into net (S&Ver here, for the most part). :neutral:
     
    #20
  21. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Nutting wrong with your serve.
    Did your grow taller, besides that hair? You're rivals mine. N did you get skinnier too?
    Quick motions are great for disquise, so you've always had it, why change it?
     
    #21
  22. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    Taller, no. Skinnier, hopefully, I was at 182 lbs at the beginning of summer (honestly don't know where all the weight is...) and now I'm down to about 175 lbs. I wanna be around the 165-170 lbs range, but I'm not overly picky, as long as I'm physically fit.
     
    #22
  23. FedExpress 333

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    Nice serve! It is fast, but the fundementals are well in place, great arm extension and using your momentum! (do you s and v a lot? cuz it looks like you do)
     
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  24. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    My thoughts are that I would not compromise my serve in an attempt to get to net quicker. I'm not really sure you get there quicker anyway, as when you launch more up into the serve, it is on an angle that takes you into court as well, just a longer path.
    Also I'd rather be a half step behind getting to net if it means a better, more consistent serve.
    Think of a baseball player starting to 1st base during his swing. Unfortunately I did this for nearly a season one yr till making the all star team and facing better pitchers. At that point I settled more into the batters box to focus on these good pitchers to make sure I hit the ball. My hitting improved tremendously in every respect, especially power. Not a perfect analogy but does get to the point some.
    On the other hand, if you are happy with your 1st serve quality and %, why would you change? right.
    As I said before, Nice serve overall.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
    #24
  25. toly

    toly Hall of Fame

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    You over rotated the body around 70 degrees. Your chest is parallel to the baseline (picture 1). Tiw, right arm is in an awkward position and you lose some power. Dolgopolov (pic.2) left shoulder is directed to the left net post. This is typical body orientation during impact. IMO, you should start the torso rotation later or use more closed stance.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
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  26. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    I agree with LarryS - good motion.

    Your toss is pretty far to the left - if you want more mph throw it to your right (a little, not way out there like Dementieva). And give it a rip.

    With your toss as it is, can you even slice one wide in the deuce court?
     
    #26
  27. tennisnoob3

    tennisnoob3 Professional

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    or just not looking for help at all. seems like a fail bragging thread to me. aren't you the chump who criticizes top D1 players and claims to be able to beat them? :roll:
     
    #27
  28. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    This was pretty much what I would have offered, too. Fuzz, you just saved me a lot of typing.

    (Weird to see someone who has been "just a User Name" and see how OFF my mental picture of them is....)

    - KK
     
    #28
  29. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    You said I looked like Will Ferrell. Does that seem like help?

    I HAVE beaten DI players, but I don't think I've ever made the declaration that I can beat DI players on a consistent basis (far from the truth, there's a reason I'm playing mid-level DII).
     
    #29
  30. Comet Buster

    Comet Buster Banned

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    Only a tool would seriously troll against this guy's serve. Somebody did. TennisN00b is prolly just jealous. He should make his own thread about how he mastered the serve:roll:.
     
    #30
  31. Lsmkenpo

    Lsmkenpo Hall of Fame

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    If you want to improve your front arm position and rear elbow in the trophy pose, you can achieve it by making a change to your tossing motion.


    You currently have a hybrid toss you bring the ball back but not quite far enough back and parallel to the baseline to get right into the straight arm position in your trophy pose using the pinpoint stance.

    When you are leaning into the court this far and using the pinpoint the J toss will allows you to get the trophy pose you seek, more efficiently.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The second recommendation I think you already know, your step into the pinpoint is inconsistent and sometimes too far forward, perhaps due to an errant toss. How is your consistency controlling depth on your serve?
    When you miss a first serve is it generally long?

    [​IMG]

    I know you said you are a S&V player, you have a good amateur serve now,
    but if you make a few tweaks to your form you could easily make it a bigger and more consistent weapon. I agree with the other poster who told you not to compromise your serve to get into the court so fast. Make a few tweaks to the serve and you won't have to worry about getting in so quickly, you will get more free points and weaker returns from your opponents.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2011
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  32. corbind

    corbind Professional

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    Toly & Lsmkenpo

    That is fantastic the way you guys provided some pictures some well-thought advice here. :)
     
    #32
  33. DavaiMarat

    DavaiMarat Professional

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    Great serves man. I give props to anyone willing to put themselves up for scrutiny, good or bad or in between. Motion looks pretty solid, however if your looking for tips I have a small suggestion.
    Your upper body motion is fast (which I like, less time for things to go wrong) but your lead up to that doesn't to be as rushed. You lose a few MPH by rushing your weight transfer and hip extension.

    Try and exaggerate your hip leaning into the court and the step with your right foot into the pin point stance could be slower. Imagine you're a bow being drawn taught, then when your at your greatest stretch explode into the ball. You should almost feel like your about to lose balance before you 'explode' onto the ball.

    Your serve is good. This will give you few more KPH or MPH or whatever.

    Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2011
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  34. ATP100

    ATP100 Professional

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    How come you didn't like the Donnay Pro One International MP?
     
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  35. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, very good job they did! excellent pics they used.
     
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  36. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    Lol, look at my username and ask me again if I S&V a lot... ;-)

    Hmm, the analogy isn't perfect like you said, but I do see what you're getting at. I'll try it from both angles and see what works. :)

    Ok, so I should focus on rotating later than I do? What impact does this have on the effectiveness of the serve / What impact does this have on the body?

    Yeah, the reason I have the toss to the left is because it's easier to disguise my kick/twists since the toss is in a similar spot. Yes, I can slice it out wide, but I mostly kick out wide, more disguise. :)

    Great analysis! I'll definitely fix the tossing arm, I didn't notice that until you pointed it out. I can place the serve basically wherever I want, so I'm pretty good with controlling the depth of the serve. Yes, when I miss, I miss my serves long 99% of the time (I would rather this, it means I've cleared the main obstacle, the net).

    I'll definitely focus on getting my serve to be the weapon that sets my volleys up, rather than the other way around.

    Ah yes, this is something I've been neglecting for a while. Something else to fix! Thanks for the tip!

    The string bed was a little too lively. I switched to the Donnay looking for more spin, but I get just as much spin with my 'boardy' 18x20 200. Wish I had realized that sooner...
     
    #36
  37. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    IMO the open prematurely is related to going forward and trying to get in faster. I see them as all connected with you.
    I appreciate your open mind on these issues,
     
    #37
  38. 5th Element

    5th Element Rookie

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    Good serve but safety first! Freeze at 0:49 :)

    Seriously, I've looked at this step by step and there's technically very little wrong with it. At 1:14 I can see a Pro whip followed by a good jump well inside the court. Before that I like the way you bring your hip into play at 1:01.

    If I want to be really picky I'd say you can get a bit more of knee bend out of this but maybe your back foot coming forwarding is preventing you from doing so.

    Finally, don't be lazy and put the ball hopper in the right position after picking up the balls :)
     
    #38
  39. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    u remind of gaudio
     
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  40. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    Lol, the hopper is in the right position. It doesn't stand up...
     
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  41. ATP100

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    Interesting, do you remember me mentioning that was too much racquet?


    Old 12-23-2010, 11:08 PM #11
    Jonny S&V
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ATP100 View Post
    What kind of racket is that? It almost looks like to much racket.
    Huh? It's a Donnay Pro One Int, very whippy.
     
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  42. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    This is also what I was going to say. Getting the arm up earlier should take some stress off the shoulder.
     
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  43. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    It wasn't too much racquet. It's too little racquet honestly. My Biomimetic's SW is way higher than that of the Donnay's...
     
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