Rivalries at all 4 Slams

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by krosero, Feb 3, 2011.

  1. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    Here's the Chris - Martina breakdown. They met 22 times in a major. 14 times in the final and all the rest in the semis. 5 times at RG, 4 times at the open, 4 times in Australia and 9 times at Wimbledon. You will all sleep better knowing rather than wondering. Which rivals are going to consider their four major meetings at a single slam the low mark!
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2011
    #51
  2. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    Graf-Seles (including all 4 finals)
    Graf-Sabatini
    Graf-Sanchez (including all 4 finals)
    Graf-Novotna
    Graf-Coetzer
     
    #52
  3. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Vamos Rafa!
    C'mon Rog!

    Nice thread.
    Interesting to see how players collide thanks to their draws and their success at the big four.
    Some memorable Davis Cup clashes, too, among the aforementioned (Wilander, Mac, Agassi, Becker, et al.)

    I'd love to see Djokovic, Raf or Rog battle eachother for a Cup final.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2011
    #53
  4. gpt

    gpt Professional

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    Good thread.
    Borg and Tanner met at the Masters and all the majors, except for the AO
     
    #54
  5. Nadal_Power

    Nadal_Power Semi-Pro

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    #55
  6. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    #56
  7. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    We hadn't even mentioned Tanner's rivalries.

    Tanner never met Connors or Gerulaitis at AO or FO. He never met McEnroe at a Slam, though he did meet Vilas everywhere except the French.
     
    #57
  8. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    An AO meeting would have been very interesting. The way Tanner played in the '77 final (the one that he won) he could have beaten Connors or Borg, no question. He thoroughly overpowered Vilas, had a run of 19 straight points won on serve.
     
    #58
  9. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    What about Graf-Sabatini?
     
    #59
  10. newmark401

    newmark401 Professional

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    Jack Crawford (AUS) and Fred Perry (GBR)

    1932 Wimbledon

    Quarter-final: Jack Crawford d. Fred Perry 7-5, 8-6, 2-6, 8-6
    --

    1933 United States Championships

    Final: Fred Perry d. Jack Crawford 6-3, 11-13, 4-6, 6-0, 6-1
    --

    1934 Australian Championships

    Final: Fred Perry d. Jack Crawford 6-3, 7-5, 6-1
    --

    1934 Wimbledon

    Final: Fred Perry d. Jack Crawford 6-3, 6-0, 7-5
    --

    1935 Australian Championships

    Final: Jack Crawford d. Fred Perry 2-6, 6-4, 6-4, 6-4
    --

    1935 French Championships

    Semi-final: Fred Perry d. Jack Crawford 6-3, 8-6, 6-3
    --

    1935 Wimbledon

    Semi-final: Fred Perry d. Jack Crawford 6-3, 3-6, 6-4, 6-4
    -----
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2011
    #60
  11. newmark401

    newmark401 Professional

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    Kim Clijsters and Justine Henin played each other at all four majors twice, except at the US Open, where they met only once. They played each other in the final of the Australian, French and US Opens, but not in a Wimbledon final.
     
    #61
  12. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Very cool, you had to know that Crawford would be involved in something like this.

    So was that their full record in the Slams, 5-2 in Perry's favor?
     
    #62
  13. newmark401

    newmark401 Professional

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    I think so, yes. I couldn't find any other meeting between them in the majors. This is probably the first incidence of two players meeting in the singles event at all four of the majors.

    In the 1920's, Bill Tilden and René Lacoste played each other at the French Championships, Wimbledon and the US Championships; so did Lacoste and Henri Cochet. But, of course, none of them went near Australia in those days, although Jean Borotra won the singles (and doubles and mixed) titles at the 1928 Australian Championships.
     
    #63
  14. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Court and Goolagong

    COURT, Margaret (AUS)

    Versus Evonne GOOLAGONG (AUS)
    Year Tournament Round Surface Winner Score
    1968 Australian Championships 16 Grass (O) M.COURT 6-3 6-1
    1970 Australian Open QF Grass (O) M.COURT 6-3 6-1
    1971 Australian Open FR Grass (O) M.COURT 2-6 7-6 7-5
    1971 Wimbledon FR Grass (O) E.GOOLAGONG 4-6 1-6
    1973 Australian Open FR Grass (O) M.COURT 6-4 7-5
    1973 French Open SF Clay (O) M.COURT 6-3 7-6
    1973 US Open FR Grass (O) M.COURT 7-6 5-7 6-2
    1975 Wimbledon SF Grass (O) E.CAWLEY 4-6 4-6

    Also Court and Rosie Casals.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2011
    #64
  15. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    McEnroe and Wilander

    WILANDER, Mats (SWE)

    Versus John MCENROE (USA)
    Year Tournament Round Surface Winner Score
    1982 Davis Cup 1982 Carpet (I) J.MCENROE 7-9 2-6 17-15 6-3 6-8
    1983 French Open QF Clay (O) M.WILANDER 1-6 6-2 6-4 6-0
    1983 Cincinnati FR Hard (O) M.WILANDER 6-4 6-4
    1983 Australian Open SF Grass (O) M.WILANDER 4-6 6-3 6-4 6-3
    1984 Masters SF Carpet (I) J.MCENROE 2-6 4-6
    1984 Stockholm FR Hard (I) J.MCENROE 2-6 6-3 2-6
    1984 Davis Cup 1984 Clay (I) J.MCENROE 3-6 7-5 3-6
    1985 Masters SF Carpet (I) J.MCENROE 1-6 1-6
    1985 French Open SF Clay (O) M.WILANDER 6-1 7-5 7-5
    1985 U.S. Open SF Hard (O) J.MCENROE 6-3 4-6 6-4 3-6 3-6
    1987 Brussels Indoor FR Carpet (I) M.WILANDER 6-3 6-4
    1987 Rome SF Clay (O) M.WILANDER 6-1 6-3
    1989 Wimbledon QF Grass (O) J.MCENROE 6-7 6-3 3-6 4-6
    John MCENROE (USA) Leads Mats WILANDER (SWE) : 7 to 6 *

    They played a lot of crucial matches against each other. Not only did they play in all four majors but at the Masters, Rome and the Davis Cup.
     
    #65
  16. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Good call. I wrote above that they had never met at RG, but I was going by their WTA page which is missing three of the meetings that you've listed: http://www.wtatennis.com/headtohead/margaret-court_2255881_1285/0,,12781~1285~2794,00.html

    WTA page for Court and Casals only has Wimbledon and USO meetings: http://www.wtatennis.com/headtohead/margaret-court_2255881_1285/0,,12781~1285~1195,00.html

    I guess you're pulling up these H2H's from the ITF site? Here's the ITF page for Court/Casals:

    http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/headtohead.asp?player=20003453&opponent=20002089


    Versus Rosie CASALS (USA)
    Year Tournament Round Surface Winner Score
    1968 Australian Championships QF Grass (O) M.COURT 6-0 6-2
    1969 Australian Open QF Grass (O) M.COURT 6-4 6-1
    1970 French Open QF Clay (O) M.COURT 7-5 6-2
    1970 Wimbledon SF Grass (O) M.COURT 6-4 6-1
    1970 US Open FR Grass (O) M.COURT 6-2 2-6 6-1
    1972 US Open QF Grass (O) M.COURT 6-4 4-6 6-4
    1977 Minneapolis QF Carpet (I) R.CASALS 4-6 5-7
    1977 Chicago QF Carpet (I) M.COURT 5-7 6-3 7-6

    I was using the WTA site for a lot of these rivalries, unfortunately.
     
    #66
  17. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Also a mistake. Per the ITF they met in R16 at '69 AO.
     
    #67
  18. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    It really wasn't a bad mistake. I do that a lot. Sometimes it's tough to rely on some of the websites because of the poor record-keeping in tennis. It drives me crazy when the scores the ATP site and the ITF site conflict. I have to do more research to find what is the correct match score.

    Yes I pulled it from the ITF site.

    Thing is that in rivalries like Rosewall and Laver which is before Open tennis you have to rely on other sources. Even in Open Tennis so much is missed. I think Urban mentioned the old Aetna World Cup matches between Australian and the United States are not mentioned in head to head match ups.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2011
    #68
  19. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    I had no idea Court played that long. How old would she have been?
     
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  20. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    She's born in 1942 so she would have been 35 in 1977. Super player and very underrated and often not talked about.
     
    #70
  21. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    I guess from reading Martina, that infamous serve was the last thing to dessert Margaret! Martina said it came down from the tree tops! Not an easy task to return.
     
    #71
  22. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Good Post.crawford seems to me one of the most underrated great champions ever.
     
    #72
  23. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Federer and Nalbandian now have meetings in all 4 places.
     
    #73
  24. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    #74
  25. Jack Romeo

    Jack Romeo Professional

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    and there's a great chance that they'll meet in a fourth consecutive grand slam final in paris in june. that's never happened for the men, hasn't it?
     
    #75
  26. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    If I'm correct, this is the first time that 3 consecutive has ever happened.
     
    #76
  27. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Nadal vs. Djokovic at the majors:

    2006 French Open QF: Rafael Nadal def. Novak Djokovic (6-4, 6-4 ret.)
    2007 French Open SF: Rafael Nadal def. Novak Djokovic (7-5, 6-4, 6-2)
    2007 Wimbledon SF: Rafael Nadal def. Novak Djokovic (3-6, 6-1, 4-1 ret.)
    2008 French Open SF: Rafael Nadal def. Novak Djokovic (6-4, 6-2, 7-6)
    2010 US Open F: Rafael Nadal def. Novak Djokovic (6-4, 5-7, 6-4, 6-2)
    2011 Wimbledon F: Novak Djokovic def. Rafael Nadal (6-4, 6-1, 1-6, 6-3)
    2011 US Open F: Novak Djokovic def. Rafael Nadal (6-2, 6-4, 6-7, 6-1)
    2012 Australian Open F: Novak Djokovic def. Rafael Nadal (5-7, 6-4, 6-2, 6-7, 7-5)
     
    #77
  28. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    In the Open Era even 3 in a row is a record.

    Also 3 in a row:
    Laver and Emerson: 1961 US, 1962 Aus., RG
    Stolle and Emerson: 1964 W, US, 1965 Aus. (Emmo won all 3)

    Don't know of any others.
     
    #78
  29. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Now they've made it; Sunday will be Nadal and Djokovic again in a Slam final, for the 4th straight time. That's an alltime record if I'm not mistaken.
     
    #79
  30. Xavier G

    Xavier G Semi-Pro

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    I like the Mac-Wilander rivalry. Mats was really a great player for most of the 80's and gave John a few surprising defeats in my eyes like the AO semi final in 83 for instance. That was a good chance for Mac to win the Australian Open. The USO semi of 1985 was another classic which McEnroe just closed out, but it took a lot of him for the final.
    I think Mac and Lendl met in every Major too. Didn't Lendl beat McEnroe in the AO 89? If so, they had meetings in all the Slam events, plus, of course, their clashes at the Masters and WCT Dallas.
     
    #80
  31. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yes, in the quarter finals. Lendl won 7-6, 6-2, 7-6.

    McEnroe's last win over Lendl was just after this, a 6-7, 7-6, 6-2, 7-5 victory in the semi finals of the 1989 WCT Dallas event.
     
    #81
  32. Xavier G

    Xavier G Semi-Pro

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    Thanks. I was sure Lendl had beaten Mac in Australia that year.1989 was quite a good year for McEnroe with some better showings like making the Wimbledon semi's and winning the WCT Finals beating Lendl along the way. I think John finished that year at no.4.
     
    #82
  33. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    He did, behind Lendl, Becker and Edberg. Number 4 was McEnroe's highest ranking after his 6 month sabbatical in 1986.
     
    #83
  34. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    McEnroe often seemed to have more trouble with Wilander than with Borg. Even in their first meeting, when Wilander was still only 18 and in some ways still a claycourter, McEnroe needed 6 hours to beat him in that Davis Cup match -- and that was on indoor carpet.

    I think two things helped Wilander. He stood in closer to the baseline than Borg; and he showed McEnroe fewer second serves than Borg did. He could do that because he didn't do as much with the first serve, tending to spin it in; but that meant that McEnroe had fewer chances to attack a second ball and get into net.
     
    #84
  35. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    He also reached the Masters semifinals, along Lendl, Becker and Edberg.One of the best all time draw at an indoor event.
     
    #85
  36. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Wilander was also steadier at the net than Borg, even if his serve was weaker.
     
    #86
  37. Xavier G

    Xavier G Semi-Pro

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    Yes, it was clear Mats was going to be a player to be reckoned with after that Davis Cup encounter added to him winning the French at just 17.
    Borg often stood way back against John and I think Mats will have had a good look at Mac's game.
     
    #87
  38. Xavier G

    Xavier G Semi-Pro

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    Yes, he did. Great line-up!
     
    #88
  39. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Even in St. Louis in '82, Drysdale was saying that Wilander already was volleying better than Borg. It's funny how tennis writers and commentators said, year after year, right up to '88, that Wilander had recently decided to add a volley to his game. In '82 his volley already looked like it did in later years, at least technically.

    Of course his net game did mature over the years, because it's one thing to know how to volley, another to come in consistently over the course of a match against someone like Lendl. That's what Mats got better at over the years. His net approaches, roughly speaking, were one reason he beat Lendl at the '83 AO; a key factor in his win over Lendl at RG in '85; and practically the entire cause of his victory over Lendl at Flushing in '88.

    Borg never came in at RG the way Wilander did in that '85 final, and unfortunately he never did so at Flushing against Mac. On the other hand, Borg successfully SV'd, often on 2nd serve, at Wimbledon over a six-year period, something which Wilander never pulled off successfully despite attacking the net pretty well on Australian grass.

    On this board when we got a look at Borg's win over Mac in the autumn of '82, at AKAI, we speculated that Borg may actually have observed Wilander's success against McEnroe and taken a page from it. Pure speculation but possible.

    One point from that event: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXitxEkVz3Y
     
    #89
  40. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Nadal and Djokovic have now met in the finals of all four of the Grand Slam events, a first among the men.

    Laver and Emerson met in the finals everywhere but Wimbledon
    Laver and Fraser met in the finals everywhere but RG
    Stolle and Emerson met in the finals everywhere but RG
    Nadal and Federer have met in the finals everywhere but USO


    The women who have met in all 4 finals:

    Court and Bueno
    Evert and Navratilova
    Graf and Sanchez Vicario
    Graf and Seles
    Venus and Serena
     
    #90
  41. ruerooo

    ruerooo Legend

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    I can't tell you how much it hurt my feelings when Roger didn't make that final.
    I was mad at him till the WTF.

    (And yes, I was sad every year before that when Roger made the final and Rafa didn't.)

    I mean, I guess it's okay now that I could see a FEDAL semi here in the States but before that to see a FEDAL match I'd have to travel to Europe?
    And they can't get it together to play in my hometown?

    :evil:
     
    #91
  42. BrooklynNY

    BrooklynNY Hall of Fame

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    Not sure if it was mentioned but Sampras and Agassi have also met in the finals everywhere but Roland Garros as well, I think may have only played in the Qtrs or 4th round
     
    #92
  43. 1477aces

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    Now 4 out of 6. AO2012
     
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  44. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Not yet, thanks! They played in the quarters in '92.
     
    #94
  45. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Lendl & Wilander met in finals everywhere except Wimbledon
     
    #95
  46. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I agree with Wilander developing a solid and accurate apprach game which enhanced his pretty good ( not great anyhow) volley.

    One thing about Mats is that he never looked like doing a big effort, he was very fluent or, at least, he seems to me the most fluent top spin player that I can remember.I think it is due to his fantastic footwork, he was not ultrafast but had great anticipation and was very cool and calm.
     
    #96
  47. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Borg and Gerulatis met everywhere except at the AO ( which they seldom played, anyway).They played a Wimbledon semi and a Wimbledon 4 th round, a US Open semi, a Masters final, a WCT semifinal, a FO semifinal and a FO final...

    Of course, Borg always won, although many of those were clsoe and competitive matches.

    Connors and Mac met everywhere except...AO...
     
    #97
  48. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Federer and Djokovic have now met in all 4 places. Federer and Murray have met everywhere but RG.
     
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