Roddick Haters

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by iradical18, May 14, 2004.

  1. iradical18

    iradical18 Professional

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    Now, I'm not a Roddick fan myself, it's not that i dont like him, he's just not my favorite player. So I wanna ask all those Roddick haters out there...why? What makes ya hate him so much, lemme hear the feedback!
     
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  2. Free_Martha

    Free_Martha Guest

    Some of the most dynamic and charismatic players are also the same ones who turn off a lot of people. Agassi is the same way. Same with the Ghetto sisters . They just elicit strong reactions from spectators. You either love them or you don't. I've rarely come across anyone who was neutral about Roddick (or Agassi. or Becker. or Connors. or McEnroe. Nice company he keeps ;) )

    One thing the haters and lovers have in common: they care. And that's what makes him a star. :twisted:
     
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  3. dander

    dander Rookie

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    i used to hate this guy royally, mostly because of the way he was packaged and marketed. he just seemed like the tennnis version of the backstreet boys. you know, just a total phony d*ck with a phony tough-guy veneer, and slickly concocted edginess designed to appeal to the 12 year old mallrat demographic

    my view has softened a little bit, as i have come to actually admire the fact that he almost always fights hard in his matches. i still can't stand watching his matches on espn, as pat mc just won't stop gushing over his boy, and i'm also not that fond of his ugly-ass game

    overall, i don't think he's THAT great of a player. i think his game is overrated, even thoug he'll win more slams. at least when agassi was coming up, his game was absolutely breathtaking to watch
     
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  4. Kevin Patrick

    Kevin Patrick Hall of Fame

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    I dislike his game, but I admire that he gives 100% every time he steps on the court(something that's sadly lacking in the modern game) This is off-topic but interesting, Andy might not be as 'marketable' as we think. From tennisreporters.net

    "We rarely discuss money (except our lack thereof), but Sports Illustrated’s list of the top 50 biggest annual earners amongst US athletes is worth taking note of. Only two women made the list are both are tennis players (and sisters): Serena Williams came in at No. 23 with $17.5 million, of which $15 million arrived in endorsement income. Venus came in at No. 41 with $15.1 million ($14 million in endorsements). Only one other tennis player made the NBA dominated-list: Andre Agassi, who placed No. 7 with $27 million ($24.5 in endorsements).
    Surprisingly, Andy Roddick is not on the list. How could A-Rod slip behind the likes of Dallas Mavericks' No. 50 Michael "I can’t hit a big shot" Finley, who earned "just" $13. 7. Time for Andy’s agent, Ken Myerson, to get on the horn."
     
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  5. borisboris

    borisboris Semi-Pro

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    It's not so much ABOMB it's last yr listening to Patrick McEnroe fondling himself when Cliff wasn't looking-Roddick this Roddick that and yet FEDEX is ripping thru. Also it's Brad Gilbert - he get's under your skin - stick to writting books and not being a front man in a booth. ABOMB's game is sooooooo boring - I have 60 matches taped and the only one I have of his = Aussie QTR vs. El anouyyyie... His serve is unteachable = no technique at all = all arm. Oh well there are millions who love him - I'm not one - but who cares ..............................
     
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  6. AAAA

    AAAA Hall of Fame

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    His serve is much more than just arm. The take-back may be short, the motion may be unorthodox but his technique does have some important parts:

    1) Strong leg thrust upwards and forwards

    2) Forward body rotation (pivot hip area).

    3) He generates very good racquet speed.


    I don't root for him to win but he does have very good serve percentages at pace.
     
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  7. cheezecake

    cheezecake New User

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    The only reason you guys don't like him is because you guys are jealous.
     
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  8. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Tend to agree with borisboris. I do not necessarily hate him, but I feel his style is boring (Yawn!). Although I feel that Roddick's personality on the court is electric. That guy is pure adrenaline on a court.
     
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  9. iradical18

    iradical18 Professional

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    Calm down with the racist remarks Free_Martha
     
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  10. Fetus Gerulaitis

    Fetus Gerulaitis New User

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    I don't mind Roddick all that much BUT, (1) despite the great service, he could still work on placement a ton . . . for the velocity he is putting on the ball, he doesn't have THAT many aces (i.e. see the manner in which Federer "bumps" the ball back into play); (2) the "whirlybird" forehand has too much top and loses it effectiveness into the court because it is not being driven, only spun into the court, giving the opponent more time to reach the ball; (3) he needs a better all court game and I understand that he is working with Gilbert on this and finally (4) I can't stand the whole rock and roll, fist pumpin' aggro persona he adopts on the court (like Hewitt) and (like Hewitt), that whole thing gets annoying . . . quick.
     
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  11. Brian Purdie

    Brian Purdie Semi-Pro

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    Very rarely do we get a #1 in the world people unanimously approve of. People generally have no problem with Federer, and its a true rarity. People hated Conners, Lendl, Sampras & Hewitt for the most part. Once somebody makes it, we pounce on it, find their faults, and go after them. They appear as a nice guy until we learn that they can't step aside after a month of being #1 to make way for someone else. Let it go. I'm still ashamed of myself for disliking, and thus, not being able to appreciate Lendl and Hewitt when they were on top. Each #1 brings a new game to the court. It's nice to appreciate the different styles of the #1's:
    Lendl: cold, non-emotional, killer backhand, killer instinct, hard work
    McEnroe: bratty, fun to watch, unorthadox S&V, arguing with umpires
    Conners: manic, mean, different styles throughout his career
    Hewitt: never say die, backcourter--winning on grass, animated, strategic
    Sampras: hard working, quiet, stylish strokes, domination of opponents
    Roddick: young, charismatic, serve and forehand, interviews well
     
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  12. yee

    yee Rookie

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    I think he deserves respect for what he had achieved, despite how many find his game boring. He might not be the complete player, but he did make full use of his strength to make it to the top.

    However fighting spirit? I will agree with his fighting spirit till I watched his match vs Canas in Rome. Just look at how he completely gave up in the 2nd set. That's another reason I don't think he has the right atttitude playing on clay. I would say his determination showed mostly when he's playing in front of home crowd or favourable environment whereas Hewitt or Coria is the one who will fight in no matter what situation, that's true fighter I think.
     
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  13. Free_Martha

    Free_Martha Guest

    I read my post three times and didn't see any racist remarks in it. Calm down with the knee-jerk PC hysteria. :roll:
     
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  14. iradical18

    iradical18 Professional

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    Reffering to the Serena and Venus Williams as the "ghetto" sisters seems pretty racist to me.
     
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  15. ProStaffTour90

    ProStaffTour90 Rookie

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    As she said, only if you interpret it that way, the worlds gone mad with political correctness :roll:
     
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  16. ProStaffTour90

    ProStaffTour90 Rookie

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    :roll: If we were jealous of his talent then we would be jealous of half the tour and nobody would have any fans!
     
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  17. AndyC

    AndyC Semi-Pro

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    and how would u interpret it? it's a derogatory statement based on where they come from with overtones of color/race thrown into it.
     
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  18. iradical18

    iradical18 Professional

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    Exactly, its not about political correctness, if he called them black and i was angry that he didnt say african american, then that would be political correctness, i dont have a problem if you call them black, or african american, but calling them ghetto is racist
     
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  19. perfmode

    perfmode Hall of Fame

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    I agree.
     
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  20. He has never won a single match in the main draw of a futures event. Now, how is it possible to move up the ranking when you can't earn one measly point at the lowest level? It is completely unrespectable :!:
     
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  21. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    It is what it be. Serena does dress ghetto. So what! who cares! She is an incredible tennis player, who could possibly be the greatest womans tennis player in the histroy of the sport if she wants to be-nobody is even close. That is all that matters and should be discussed. But people are still entitled to their opinions and that is what makes the USA the greatest country in the world. FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Deal with IT!
     
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  22. @wright

    @wright Hall of Fame

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    That is not racist, it's not like he called them the n word. They are from the ghetto, compton to be exact. The comment was disrespectful for sure, but not racist, let's not play that card at every small chance. I don't get how people(who aren't Jewish) get offended at the word "ghetto", the word originally referred the the slums originally inhabited by Jewish people, give it a rest.
     
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  23. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    Maybe you should read it four or five more times. I read it ONCE, and the term "ghetto sisters" jumped out at me like bad breath. If I call someone on a racist or racially-loaded remark I am not automatically P.C. Get that straight once and for all and stop throwing around the term indiscriminately as if you know what you're talking about.

    I don't remember, for example, anyone referring to Jimmy Connors as trailer trash, or John McEnroe as a New York Irish-psycho, or any number of Spanish or Latin American players as barrio or favella trash. If they did refer to players that way, they would, rightly so, be branded as idiots and dirtbags, etc. If you dilslike the Williams for WHAT THEY DO or SAY, fine, but if you demean who they ARE by BIRTH then obviously, you have an agenda other than tennis here.
     
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  24. iradical18

    iradical18 Professional

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    Regardless of whether she dresses ghetto or not, she is not ghetto, there is a difference. Serena happens to be pretty well spoken if you've ever heard her in an interview, her and her sister for that matter.
     
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  25. iradical18

    iradical18 Professional

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    Like i said before, being from the ghetto does not make you ghetto, and yes i know that originally, ghetto means a jewish slum. I dont play the race card at every chance, but at this particular moment, you would too if like me you've grown up in the ghetto and have had that label placed on you automatically, regardless of whether you are or not
     
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  26. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    NOT!

    In addition, she is a cry baby who always has an excuse for losing. Rather than giving her opponent some credit. If you call whining in ghetto well spoken, then you need to take some more English classes. In addition, SHE DOES DRESS GHETTO!
     
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  27. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    I think we all know that I am Roddick's number one fan :wink:

    I am not jealous of him. I am jealous of Federer and Ferrero as their games are great to watch.

    Federer is in a different league to everyone but miles ahead of Roddick, he doesn't deserve to be number 2, but does anyone deserve to be number 2 against Federer?

    Liam
     
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  28. voltman

    voltman Rookie

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    Would "hoochie" be better? Have you seen how Serena dresses?
     
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  29. MattNowicki

    MattNowicki Rookie

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    Oh, Yee, did you see Roddick's match against Mr. Meltdown Moya? THAT was determination if I've ever seen it. Granted, Moya messed up royally, but SOMETHING had to get inside his head and Roddick was CLEARLY not letting go. Did you see Roddick's SF match at the Open with Nalbandian? To this day, I still don't think ONE CALL could alter the course of a match so (and I think everyone deprives Roddick of being able to be down match point and still win, there), but WOW- determination from being DOWN 2 sets to none? I dunno- I think Roddick gives it his all. Yes, there are days when everyone's tired (against Canas), but when Roddick believes, man, he believes. That's what makes me proud to be a fan of his.
     
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  30. iradical18

    iradical18 Professional

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    Yes hoochie would be much much better, because that is how she dresses.
     
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  31. iradical18

    iradical18 Professional

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    So just because she has an excuse for every lose she is ghetto? She can whine all she wants but she's not ghetto. But i'm not arguing whether she whines or not, or even how she dresses, because she does dress like a hoochie. Also i scored a 770 on my English SAT, so dont talk to me about english.
     
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  32. Kobble

    Kobble Hall of Fame

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    I think lack of class and sportsmanship is a better description.
     
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  33. iradical18

    iradical18 Professional

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    Exactly
     
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  34. Free_Martha

    Free_Martha Guest

    He's come back from the brink of defeat several times now. Roddick is brilliant at that. How many times has Federer done that?
     
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  35. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Federer came back against Agassi at the Masters Cup group stage.
    That was VERY impressive and he did it by playing great tennis.

    Anyway when is Federer ever behind?

    Liam
     
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  36. iradical18

    iradical18 Professional

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    Very good point lyim!
     
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  37. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    All great players have these types of matches -- where they come back from the brink of defeat. That's what makes them great players.

    Any player who is in the Top Ten has had them, and certainly players who are in the Top 2 have had them.

    Yes, Roger is the overall best right now. But I said that about Lleyton Hewitt not long ago.

    I don't think Roger will win RG, but he could surprise me there. But I think he's a huge factor this summer, along with a number of other players. I think it's going to be an exciting race to the finish in Houston, and I hope to be there.

    And I hope Nadal will be back in action soon, too. I think if he had been well, he could have changed a few results in the claycourt season, but I guess he's going to have to continue to do the best he can on his less-than-favorite surfaces. Vamos, Rafael!
     
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  38. yee

    yee Rookie

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    Funny how people just don't like to read before comment. Wasn't that what I said, he always fight especially hard in front of homecrowd (and you went ahead and gave me 2 eg of that). I never try to take away any credit from that. Ironically, you pointed out that Moya match, I don't even want to comment on that Mr. meltdown really. No doubt Andy fought hard, but if Mr. meltdown didn't DF twice while seving for match and made errors, I don't think you'll be here using this example. Nevertheless, still I didn't say Andy's not a fighter.

    I only said he also gave up pretty easily when things are not going well or not his favourable condition, unlike hewitt or Coria whom I see as real fighter.

    Please read before jumping to any critisisms about andy :roll:
     
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  39. yee

    yee Rookie

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    Have you thought perharps it's also because for the past 1 year, Federer hasn't put himself in as many situation as Andy n the brink of defeat? He had come back from one set down and win for quite a few times already lately.

    He also came from an extremely tight match, a very unfavourable situation to him and won in that rr match vs Agassi in Houston. Still I'll never say Federer is better than Andy in mental aspect, he did lose to Andy in Montreal mentally. In fact I'll give the edge to Andy coz Federer does have problem serving out match every now and then.

    I only comment on Andy mentally not as strong in unfavourable situation compared to Hewitt and Coria. Of course you're welcome to prove me wrong by citing me one e.g which's he came abck at an unfavourable situation?
     
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  40. yee

    yee Rookie

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    Didn't read your post before mine. Looks like we're thinking on the same track :wink:

    He was behind vs Hewitt in AO, behind vs Lopez in Dubai final, struggling terribly vs Dayvenko in 1st rd Miami when he's sick, and also behind vs Coria in Hanburg final. So yes, not many but he did prove he had improved tremendously in mental aspects as well. Which is what made him so difficult to beat these days.
     
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  41. Chanchai

    Chanchai Semi-Pro

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    When we're talking about Roddick and unfavorable conditions and particularly away from home... should we be talking about non-anglo dominated regions? Someone already mentioned his coming from behind against Hewitt at the AO, though I think 2003 AO vs. Youzhny is probably the strongest example. I think the person made a typo (and maybe meant Youzhny?) because they never fought in Australia and Roddick is 0-3 against Hewitt (only playing each other in 2001 and the only time he came close was during that US Open match that many people remember Roddick blowing his top and throwing whatever chance he had in that match -- "ARE YOU AN ABSOLUTE MORON?!" in voice straight out of the exorcist).

    Anyways, here's what I could dig up (thank you ATP site) -- I refrained from picking tournaments in the US, England, Australia, and Canada (though I am tempted to say Montreal is not anglo... and there were some examples there against Kuerton and Malisse)
    -2002 TMS Rome vs. Pavel -- 1-6 6-4 6-3
    -2002 TMS Rome vs. Ferreria -- 3-6 6-4 6-2

    If you want to count first set down in 5 setters... (in non-anglo regions)
    -2001 Roland Garros vs. Chang -- 5-7 6-3 6-4 6-7(5) 7-5

    If anyone cares for doubles (in non-anglo regions)
    -2004 Doha partnered with Koubek vs. Escude & Grosjean -- 2-6 6-3 6-4

    That aside... yeah, not a very spiffy non-anglo down a set or two recovery record, but for his sake--it wasn't super common for him to lose that first set in those tournaments. If anything, it almost seems like he drops the first set back home in the states a lot more (well, ratio wise). Too lazy to put up charts about that stat though. But you could say that it's almost always clear who the better player of the day was during those tournaments. The bottom-line is that he hasn't shown much in terms of recovering in truly foreign areas where he probably has signficantly fewer supporters, chanters, and screaming girls.

    In the US, Canada, Australia, and England side of things--I think he has his fair share of coming from a set or two-down victories.

    In Davis Cup play, I don't think he's had a comeback from behind, pure drama victory yet though. As strong as his Davis Cup record is.

    -Chanchai
     
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  42. yee

    yee Rookie

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    Thanks Chanchai.

    That's the type of post I appreciate. Coming up with good and valid examples (but didn't appreciate that FO e.g vs Chang, we knew how that went)

    I just hope people will READ properly, my point is not saying Andy is not a good fighter, except that I realised he's not as mentally strong and fight equally hard whenever he's not playing on his favourite surface or condition. I feel that Hewitt or Coria are stronger in that sense. That's all.
     
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  43. yee

    yee Rookie

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    Since you mention Davis Cup, for those of you who think Roger's not mentally strong, this guy had played for most of past 2 years in opponents ground needless to say unfavourable condition and won most of his DC matches, both singles and doubles. I don't have to say how much the burden is on Roger each time he plays in DC, he's not only expected to win both his singles but doubles too. This year he had to fly right away after AO to Romania without any rest to play on clay, and again he won them all.

    But then of course people will only remember that match he lost vs Hewitt in last year DC sf. What did he do after that? Bagelled Hewitt 3 times since then.

    I don't think mental strength is only SOLELY to measure from how one can come back from matches, but also how one's able to take the pressures of not playing in favourable condition.
     
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  44. Chanchai

    Chanchai Semi-Pro

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    Totally understand Yee (and agree for the most part -- referring to first post).

    It's just too bad that despite the young career of Coria, he's had to pull out midmatch so many times because of injury (it's amazing he fights as long as he does through the ones he does pull out of) and of course the drug testing issue that had him out for awhile (hence many people wonder last year where the hell he came from).

    On the injury notes, and maybe what you were pointing out (maybe not, you left it open on a lot of good levels), yeah... Roddick before 2003... Chang vs. Roddick (which I happened to watch a year before I started seriously playing tennis), Roddick was cramping the final set and eventually won. Of course comparisons to Chang's match against Lendl would be inevitable there and Chang was a sport to offer some advice to Roddick (even if it's general advice most athletes should know, it's good sporting). And it would have been nice to see Chang play further into the RG draw then. BACK TO RODDICK... I remember one of the last times I saw Roddick screaming out in cramps (a subtopic suitable for this thread, since a lot of haters are likely to assume Roddick was faking or at least being ultra whiny for a variety of reasons including gamesmanship--I can see why they'd view it that way obviously)--that was against Lapentti @ TMS Toronto 2002 (R32). Lapentti got so pissed off that after the handshake with Roddick and the Chair Umpire, he couldn't hold it in and gave Roddick a piece of his mind. Despite the screaming demands of the fangirls who had practically gotten onto the court to get Andy's autographs, Andy and Lapentti continued the exchange for awhile as the Chair tried to calm Andy down (couldn't hear anybody trying to calm Nicolas down).

    To clarify, I was at the time and still am a Roddick fan. But can't fault anyone for getting annoyed of those vocal cramps happening a lot in 2002 (and I can only guess 2001, I wasn't quite watching tennis at the time). And it was a HUGE SHOCK (maybe that's even an understatement), watching Australian Open 2003 against Youzhny and ESPECIALLY El Aynaoui (gee, you didn't see that one coming huh?) without a mutter or sign of cramps. Amazing training during the indoor court season and offseason? Stronger maturity? Growing up a bit? More fuel for the Roddick Haters? Whatever it is, I guess it only adds to the polar appeal of Roddick (for both those that love him and those that love to hate him).

    On Davis Cup... Yeah, amazing what Federer is doing in general, but also in Davis Cup. However, if Switzerland was still in the running... and if they would win the DC.... Doesn't that sort of throw the notion of Davis Cup as a team competition out the window? Kind of kidding... obviously, the Fed fans and many others would say it's the testement to this guy's abilities (and his doubles partner too, though we wouldn't hear much about that).

    Side note (extra super rant)... a topic that could sort of transcend this thread and others like it (ex. Hingis)... Could be "What do we look for in the athletes we enjoy watching or following." It's obvious everyone has their own criteria and justification. Hell, criteria could be the same such as "class" but the actual definition of that definition (class) is totally different from indvidual to individual. Some say Hingis is "a class act" (non-sarcastically), where many would say she was a brat. Should athletes be "role-models?" I personally don't think so, for all I know most of us care about them because they're good at whatever it is they do, by various means. And like an old commercial, "parents should be role models" (as opposed to athletes). What's the big criteria for your devotion to this/these athlete(s)? Is it just because of charisma? Just because of controversy? Just because of nationality or represented nation/region? Just because your friends like them? Just because they think as much (or as little) as you do and on such a similar level? Because you feel they are an extension of you? Because they extend what you want to be or do? The bottom line for me is that a lot of people make the actions of their "idols" (sincere or manufactured, tasteful or distasteful) so personal... They make these athletes such a personal thing for them. Thing is, a lot of them don't even realize it (hence some people come out as hypocrites actually). Does it all really matter? In any case, a lot of these guys and girls on the tours are inspiration on some levels to me, and they're great entertainment for me too, maybe even a guide for some tennis--but they're just people.

    -Chanchai
     
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  45. yee

    yee Rookie

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    I'll leave the discussion of Andy's cramping out of here for sure, Chancai but yes I did watch both his match vs Chang and also lapentti. No concrete evidence to say anything about that and so I shall leave my opinion out of here.

    Somehow I actually agree with what you said about the Swiss/Roger in DC. But let's not forget that Michel was the one who contributed the last point to bring the Swiss into last year SF. Besides I believe Roger's current partner Allegro is actually quite a good double player himself. So yes and no to that. But in most circumstances, it's more a yes :)
     
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  46. Chanchai

    Chanchai Semi-Pro

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    Yeah... no concrete evidence. That's what makes a figure controversial among other things... hehe... it's also what makes sports what they are (hey, I love watching soccer for both the skill and technique as well as having fun figuring out who is acting how much and who is really hurt).

    But yes... discussions of cramping could escalate to levels of discussions of fires (or discussions of Hingis ethics at Roland Garros for that matter).

    Good points on Swiss DC. And their team definitely has capable players (but have to fight against insanely tough teams). To their credit, they've been in the top 8 awhile now and I expect them to be for years to come.

    Some more on Andy... he does seem to do a lot during the offcourt training though... During late winter/early spring, I swear his neck just kept growing. The Trucker Hat's gotta be more natural looking on him now than ever (kinda kidding of course). I thought Hewitt might've looked like he bulked up a bit earlier in the year too (or was I just influenced by commentary, probably Carillo?).

    -Chanchai
     
    #46
  47. Joe Oldschool

    Joe Oldschool New User

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    78
    Roddick is a classic American tennis brat. All ego and posturing. I think he has a very teenage mentality at this point in his life. The hyper macho, tough guy BS is really just to hide the fact that he is insecure about himself. (and also probably getting some B-t lovin from Gilbert.)
     
    #47
  48. mileslong

    mileslong Professional

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,396
    Location:
    newport beach, california
    i hate brats and roddick is just the latest. sometimes these guys grow up like agassi did who i once despised and now respect greatly. time will tell on him.

    the current combination of he and gilbert is just oo much for me to bear right now...
     
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  49. Chanchai

    Chanchai Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Messages:
    787
    Miles, I'm glad that you admit there was a time you didn't like Agassi back in those days (or even admit that he was a brat back then). Of those that despised Roddick, the ones that despised me were the ones who would sort of hate on Roddick right after praising Agassi all night/day.

    That aside, it's nice to see how Agassi matured. Though I sorta feel sorry for whoever has the role of ballkid for his matches on any given day, lol. On that note, gotta feel sorry for whoever is chair umpire for Andy Roddick (and on occasion David Nalbandian or Guillermo Coria).

    -Chanchai
     
    #49
  50. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,202
    Now that everyone has aired their issues re Andy, I hope we can move on. :lol:

    I can see why he isn't everyone's cup of tea, for reasons pointed out above.

    But it's nice to recognize that other people here may like him, notwithstanding his flaws. Nearly every player on the Tour has a flaw or two. And in my view, Andy has less than some, and more assets than many others.

    But that's my view. There is room for other views. But we have heard them ad nauseum.

    I hope Roland Garros gives us something a bit more interesting to talk about. :mrgreen:

    Susan
     
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