Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by Equijet, Sep 19, 2008.
btw is the hyper pro staff 90 same as Ncode tour 90?
or just same molding?
You mean sheep, right?
Why do you guys so interested in knowing my true identity instead of something about the real pro stuffs? With regard to the market scam conspiracy, as I stated that I'm not so stupid to tell everyone that the company who pay me salary and they lair to the public. Why did I criticize their products and services? Also, if I intended to hard sell the K90, why I did say the majority K90 owners can't fully utilize the racket? I have to say "You can be the next rivalry of Roger Federer in Grand Slam finals if playing with the K90". Sounds more marketing scam? I don't think this is the appropriated way for marketing activities and I believe that most of the posters here are capable to make their judgment to define the truth and scam. Besides, I don't think you guys will buy more K90 for what I said. Hey, don't be negative, the world is not fully of scams but full of funs. Cheers.
Sure. I guess as long as the message I'm trying to convey gets across--mission acomplished.
Equijet,I wouldn't waste my time and energy trying to explain yourself to others. You've said what you felt you had to say about Federer's racquet; and speaking for myself and a few others, thank you. Would you by any chance have any information of the proposed Pete Sampras Prototype? Thanks.
your identity solidifies your credibility
Speaking for myself, you piqued my curiosity in an earlier post by saying that “I don't work for Wilson but among those pros instead. I'm not a stringer or sports photographer either". This type of response created curiosity about who you really are, and prompted me to ask if you were Frank Messerer? You never replied, but frankly it really doesn't matter in the big picture. Your info is welcomed, your continued participation and posting of other "insider" info is welcome, and since your pretty new to the board as well, I personally want to welcome you as well.
Ain't that the truth!
that is hilarious, BTW where is NBMojo today? It's like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde when those 2 get together, but very entertaining at times.
well all number 1 seed dont use the same racquet as the previous number 1.
I understand your cynicism, but it seems given your attitude that even if Federer himself pulled these rackets out his closet and gave them to you and said that the K90 is the same racket, you'd be thinking he's trying to pull a fast one on you.....
Interesting "hypothetical", and I see your point. I guess only Fed and his racquet techs only really know the answer to this
If Federer has indeed been using the K90 under different paint jobs, then we know for sure whatever J/K/L 90 that Wilson is going to come up with to replace the K line will NOT be what Federer is actually using... No? I wonder how Wilson will market the new 90.
First of all I have to apologize to you what I didn't reply whether I'm Mr. Frank Messerer or not. To be honest, I'm not Frank Messerer.
Thanks for the compliments! I'd enjoy to chat with any buddies here. I don't mind who are questioning my credibility on what I said, this is the cyber world nature, right?
Since I'll get back to concentrate on my own business, I may not participate the extensive chats here consistently in sooner future. I wish you guys should appreciate the chats with each others too. Cheers!
Don't worry, Wilson (or other companies) has thousands marketing tricks to sell their products. They will create some exotic terms for those common technologies to get the unique selling point for launching their new products to the market. Do you know what is Karophite Black or Hypercarbon? These are the Wilson's own created terms. They are not existed in any industrial dictionaries. They are just high modulus graphite and high tensile carbon, common materials in industrial business. As I remember that a decade ago, Gamma claimed their rackets contains "Diamond Fibre", were you convinced? Next time, Wilson might launch the new Federer series racket by having the space technology butt cap to improve the controllability as a selling point, customers should still swoop to buy one. It is not just because of that trick but that is still carrying the soul of Roger Federer, isn't it?
hi Equijet, I suppose you're one working in that professional circle and very knowledgeable in racquet technical aspects, in your opinion would Roger be benefited if he switch to a 95? Since he didn’t make the switch, I guess the answer would be no, but why not? What is so special about his playing style that a small head sized racquet is best fit as quite different from everyone else? thx
i'm no expert or anything, but in most cases i believe people are stubborn and what to win with what they like. he probably really loves his racket. nothing much else.. personally i like rackets that're 90-93sq in. i mean he won the US open .. why does he need to change his racket?
If you won 13 Grand Slams with a certain racquet, would you want to switch?
BTW, lots of people use 90 sq. in. or smaller racquets, in fact, millions of people. Federer is not much different.
A guy shows up your house, "there is a hurricane coming, that's a fact. You better buy insurance from me right now!"
So you do. No hurricane comes.
Repeat this a few more times.
The SAME guy shows up again, "NOW for the FIRST time, a hurricane really is coming. You better buy insurance!"
The intelligent, rational, objective person SHOULD be highly skeptical of this claim and of buying insurance.
Wilson has not proven this is Fed's racquet but with their own sales pitch, they confirm they've lied their teeth off before.(even if already knew it)
For BreakPoint, who had some doubts about the Original Pro Staff 85 being double braided, I found this comments... very interesting.
Ken Sherman was one of 4 Wilson engineers involved in the design and development of the ProStaff and was lead engineer at the fabled St. Vincent factory for 4 years, working on ProStaffs and original Profile racquets, among others.
What are the benefits of braided construction? Ken replies, "braided construction offers continuous fibers throughout the entire frame. The only starting and stopping of fibers comes from the drilling of the string holes. A complete uni-directional racket is composed of many sheets of material that may only have fibers from 2" to 8" in length, which gives the frame a different feel*. The ProStaffs also had a 50% Kevlar/Graphite inner braid (and 100% graphite outer braid) which helped in giving the rackets the feel that is so unique. Kevlar adds weight and is effective in damping frame shock and vibration. Additionally, they are foam-filled to help achieve uniform weight/balance specs and provide an even more solid feel by deadening sound." David Price, former engineering manager at Wilson's St. Vincent adds, "braided graphite/kevlar racquets offer much better feel and more consistent distribution of kevlar fibers than uni-directional construction racquets. This is why we've gone back to braided construction.
BP has prob read this a thousand times....
its from the TW review of the 6.0 right?
Yes, it´s an article published by TW about the history of the 6.0.
From his comments in this thread, I´m not sure BP have read or remember this information. Anyway I find it interesting for everyone reading this thread.
Jorel, if BP had read the TW PS 6.0 article recently, he wouldn´t have written this:
Are any other Wilson racquets (or other company's racquets) double braided but weighing in at 11oz or so strung? I want something with a solid feel like the K90 but in a larger headsize and a lighter weight (and I do understand that the K90 weight has a great deal to do with its feel). Most racquets today feel pretty hollow.
Must be hard to follow this thread, does the Ncode tour 90 came from Hyper pro staff molding also? OP?
The N90 came from the PS Tour 90 mold. At least based on the retail frames. The Hyper PS 6.0 looks as if it was made exclusively as a 95 for retail sale.
What Equijet shows are possibly custom frames from Wilson supposedly made for Federer. Special case.
Shot with Canon EOS 5D at 2008-09-26
Shot with Canon EOS 5D at 2008-09-26
Shot with Canon EOS 5D at 2008-09-26
Shot with Canon EOS 5D at 2008-09-26
proracketeer, I wish you enjoy the photos of Steffi Graf Pro Staff 85. Cheers!
Hey, I don't know if you saw my earlier post. But, I had a question about if you knew anything on the Pete Sampras Prototype. Thanks.
Thanks for posting this quote, Elzurdo. Very useful information. Clears up the confusion I had after reading the differing opinions in this thread.
BP IS A GOAT!
Um....yes, they have. Wilson has publicly stated that the K90 sold in the stores is the exact same racquet that Federer uses on the tour. They have never said this about any of his previous Tour 90 racquets nor have they ever said this about any other Wilson sponsored pro using a paintjobbed racquet (e.g., Djokovic, Fish, Mathieu, Lopez, Tsonga, Llodra, Kiefer, etc.). They will say that these other pros are using some Wilson model, but they NEVER say that the model name that they use is the SAME racquet as the model with the same name that's sold in the stores.
Example: Just because Wilson says that Djokovic uses a "K-Blade Tour" does not mean that he uses the SAME "K-Blade Tour" as the "K-Blade Tour" that is sold in the stores. In fact, they are very different.
However, in regards to Federer's K90, Wilson has stated that the K90 he uses is the SAME EXACT K90 as the one sold in the stores.
Yes, I have read that article many times. It is from TW's article on "The Origins of the ProStaff". This one: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/60/ProstaffOrigins.html
However, when I read it, I was not looking for if it had an inner and outer braid. I do know that all the PS 6.0 frames say "Braided Graphite and Kevlar" on them but never mention "Double Braid". However, starting with the HyperCarbon racquets, and in the case of the PS series, the PS Tour 90, Wilson started calling it "Double Braided" and put that term and logo on a decal on the frames as if it was something new and hadn't been done before.
Well, we now know that the PS series have been "Double Braided" all along from the PS 6.0 85/95 all the way through to the current K90. The only difference being that the PS 6.0 85/95 and the K90 use a 100% graphite outer braid and a 50% Kevlar/50% graphite inner braid, whereas, the PS Tour 90 and nCode 90 use a graphite/HyperCarbon outer braid and a Kevlar/graphite inner braid. This is one reason why the K90 feels similar to the PS 6.0 85/95.
Yes, thanks for bringing it up. I had not remembered that tidbit about the inner and outer braids in that article on the PS 6.0.
Well said. What's your regular racket (that you use to play tennis)?
Yes. We've all heard your childish line of reasoning. Which is at roughly the level of reasoning displayed by a pre-adolscent.
Most adults are able to see the complete irrationality and contradictions inherant in your thought. They are numerous, not the least of which is that "a" K-blad tour or any other racquet has obviously been completely untrue by any normative definition in many cases. More importantly, you obviously don't understand representation and semantic content OR you are so biased that you have resorted to a very primitive linquistic/legalist argument to "prove' your claims and sacrificed any facade of intelligence you might have otherwise maintained.
If that were the case, that in itself is quite intersting, that one would be so vested in a belief in a racquet that one would be willing to look foolish to many in an effort to promote the belief. I suppose the ego knowns no bounds as a motivator.
Alternatively, in the unfortunate case that you actually believe this to be a valid argument, there will be no reasoning with this level of mentality anymore than one would have luck arguing with a 6 yr old with a passionate belief.
In that case, you must have the intelligence of a zygote. :roll:
Equijet has already proven me to be correct all along about Federer's racquet being the retail K90. If you want to believe that Wilson only makes one version of the racquet they call the "K-Blade Tour" and that the version Djokovic's uses is the same version as sold in the stores then go ahead. You will be known as the most naive person on this board. Wilson has NEVER made that claim about Djokovic's K-Blade Tour as they have about Federer's K90. In fact, the general manager of Wilson Racquet Sports stated that Federer's K90 is the only racquet they can make that claim about - that it's the same as the retail version. He could not say the same thing about ANY of Wilson's other sponsored pros.
And if you knew anything about how racquet companies work, you'd know that they make dozens of different versions of racquets with the same marketing name, e.g., "K-Blade Tour", only one version of which is sold in stores but several other versions are used by their sponsored pros. They are given code numbers internally, just like pros sponsored by Head use different frames with many different code numbers on them but are all painted with the same retail paintjob and the public is sold a single version.
WOW. WOW. You couldn't even understand that simple point. I THINK there is only one version of the Kblade?! ROFL!!!!
Enough said, thanks for the demonstration. Talk about proving my point!
As I said, the intellectual level of your own posts speak for themselves. AND as I said, it's obviously rather pointless to attempt reasoning with somebody who operates at that level.
And thanks for proving YOUR ignorance.
"Reasoning", "intelligence"? You don't have the foggiest clue what those words even mean because you possess neither. I highly suggest you stop posting about a subject you know almost nothing about.
It has already been proven many times on this board that Djokovic cannot possibly be using the same K-Blade Tour as sold in the stores (e.g., different string spacing/pattern, Djokovic's own admission, etc.), which is why Wilson has never been able to state that Djokovic uses the same K-Blade Tour as the retail version, as they have stated about Federer's K90. But you wouldn't know anything about that, would you? :-?
Thanks for the laugh. Now we can all go back to ignoring you.
sorry fellas, mod mode for a minute:
This is not the FS/FT section, soliciting purchases count as a FS/FT post. Do not do it, or else someone will get mad! :evil:
Carry on with your interesting discussions
Don't be silly. Everybody knows that I have forgotten more about every area of tennis than you'll ever know and in fact ACTUALLY play at high level.
Again, you STILL don't get it. MAN! LOL! Djoko DOESN"T USE THE SAME RACQUET THAT TOO IS A LIE FROM WILSON. THAT IS THE POINT! Still don't get it? Yeah. I give up. My biggest moments of stupidity are being foolish enough to try educate self-annointed "experts" on the internet. Particularly ones who can't even follow the basic argument.
Not only did he incorrectly assert that I think Djoko uses a retail Kblade...when I follow it up with "I THINK djoko uses a kblade??! ROFL!!" HE STILL thinks I'm advocating that!
PLEASE tell me he's actually a little kid.....PLEASE?
But oh well, some things never change around here. I guess the only sad thing might be that genuinely young kids, might be misled and are exposed to a lot of really poor reasoning.
Um...when did Wilson EVER say that Djokovic does not use the retail K-Blade Tour? It's what they DIDN'T say that matters. And they DIDN'T say that Djokovic uses the same K-Blade Tour as the one sold in the stores. Thus, Wilson did not lie. They just did not state the truth. Big difference. They effectively took the 5th Admendment.
I guess you didn't play at a high enough level to actually get paintjobs or else you'd know all about them, which from this thread you obviously don't. You would also know that manufactures make numerous frames all with the same marketing name. In fact, the K90 I use has a different stock weight, balance, and flex than the retail K90 sold in U.S. stores but it looks identical and has the same graphics and name.
So if you know more than we do, why don't you share? So far, you have given us no new information whatsoever. You keep talking about some "basic argument" without ever stating what "basic argument" you are talking about.
Here's one for you:
1. Wilson has stated that Federer's K90 is the same K90 as sold in the stores.
2. Wilson has never stated that Djokovic's K-Blade Tour is the same K-Blade Tour as the one sold in the stores.
3. Draw your own conclusions.
4. End of story.
This from a child who thinks he can see Double Braiding from looking at the surface of a frame. ROFLMAO!
Well, It is a interesting hypothetical topic, as for supposing Roger can be benefited by switching larger head sized racket (Lets say 95 sq in), I rather think that all the rivalries of Roger Federer should change to use the small head sized rackets when he has been overwhelmingly dominating the tennis world in past 5 years? Back to 90's, there were so many wonderful midplus or over sized rackets available but why Peter Sampras were still able to gain 14 Grand Slam trophies along with the extraordinary career achievements by using a 85 sq in racket and most of his opponents were using the larger head sized rackets? If a racket is so decisive for the outcome, why their rivalries don't simply use the identical small head sized rackets of Roger and Pete to make themselves being the number one? The reason why Roger loves to use the mid sized racket is the same reason of paint job rackets to other pros. Every pros should develop their career along with a particular racket during their childhood, when they get used to the properties of that racket, it should be the most certain equipment for their tournament business when they grew up. That racket is liked an extended arm of them, a part of body. You can easily to notice most of the paint job rackets are the obsolete models (probably more than 10 years old models) but in latest models' cosmetics. Because they plays with that old racket since child. The consistence is absolute more important to pros, they are so sensitive for any changes and may not appreciate any new designs or technologies, that is why they prefers to use a familiar model but with the latest paint job for marketing objectives. From the 85 to 90 sq in sized racket, it was a big leap of changes to Roger already. I don't think there is plenty much margin to change the design on Roger's current racket to improve his games.
By the way, could anyone tell me what is G.O.A.T, professional.....etc status? Thanks in advance.
It has to do with the number of posts you have.
Btw, thanks for sharing this information with us. Much appreciated!
I agree with Equijet here. Pros use what they feel comfortable and have a lot of experience with. They don't like surprises. If someone wins many grandslam tournaments using the same racket, it would be unlikely for them to switch if he/she has been using that racket since their youth.
STILL DOESN"T GET IT!!! LOL! Now I even re-stated it outright....DJOKO doesn't use the same racquet!! That was the point. I remember when you were just a rather ignorant self-appointed expert...have you now gone so far off the deep end that you just rant on and on claiming that I think the OPPOSITE of what I have said? Just when you think it can't get any worse....
Uh OH! Your'e k90 is different!
PS. this isn't directed at Breakpoint...he won't understand anyways...but the whole phenomenon of the k90 is fascinating in itself. Setting aside the very questionable issue of whether it is or is not identical to the retail version, it's an evolutionary marketing tactic by Wilson...that goes along with various players signature models. Their blunt "pushing" of the frame as the same as Roger's is in fact an acknowledgement of the hacker fan-boy base. Those who are so caught up in Federer that they feel a need to use "his" racquet.
The public excuse for racquet companies in the past was that the pro specs were not best playing for the public (probably quite correct). Here we see, Wilson's acknowledgment of the small but rabid fan-base who want the identical racquet. Even though the entire idea of it is rife with errors in reasoning.
It's a bit understandable for many... most are kids. Hero-worship can be a powerful thing at that age, or I suppose any age....certainly capable of overpowering reason and logic.
Lost on them is the fact that using Fed's racquet almost insures that it is not perfect for them! The "perfect" racquet for you is probably different for every player, Fed's racquet is no more likely to be perfect for you than any other, in fact, based on level and style of play, it is definitely NOT the raquet for you! Lost on them is the fact that Fed's racquet makes negligble impact on his game in comparison to the rest of the world. Lost on them is the fact that Fed has no idea what's "best" in a racquet. This is simply what he personally has evolved into using. Why would anybody want the same racquet as a pro even if they could get exact copies? Well, fanboyism. Anyways, way to go Wilson....you might as well milk it for all it's worth...
pps. Actually I was sponsored. Were you? I'd love to see some videos! LOL
It's absurd the lengths some people go to twisting words about and making stuff up to convince themselves and try to convince others that Fed uses a real retail consumer grade k90..
The chances of this are probably about 1 in 100,000. and even if so, who cares and what diff does it possibly make
Then to argue that fed and other pros dont change gear in a thread which has pictures of 2 DIFFERENT racquets he used is silly..it blows the whole argument away
Pros may use racquets made from old moulds, but they are using modern materials. that obsolete inefficient earlier generation graphite prepreg that USED to be used in racquets, probably isnt even available anymore.
Separate names with a comma.