Rome 2013: [Q] E. Gulbis v [5] R. Nadal

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by Relinquis, May 15, 2013.

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Who wins? Rafa or Ernests?

Poll closed May 16, 2013.
  1. Gulbis in 2

    15 vote(s)
    22.4%
  2. Gulbis in 3

    12 vote(s)
    17.9%
  3. Rafa in 2

    23 vote(s)
    34.3%
  4. Rafa in 3

    17 vote(s)
    25.4%
  1. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    the nadal acts like a sore loser even when he just loses a set... what a disgusting player. [​IMG]

    vamos ferrer !!!
     
  2. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    Interesting to hear Rafa's comments on the match. What makes the better player? He thinks Gulbis has immense potential if he "keeps calm"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veirps-fSvM

    Gulbis on the match and what he needs to do to win on of these. Seems like he recognises why Rafa is so tough.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IxWc8MYKug

    I wanna see them play again. Love the intensity of this matchup.

    Edit:
    removed 2010 match comments.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2013
  3. sillymonkey

    sillymonkey Hall of Fame

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    Gulbis was on fire in the 1st set. Rafa was slow to start and playing too defensively, too deep and too short balls.
    2nd set he corrected a bit and came forward. EG came back down to earth as well.
    3rd set was pretty even, but Rafa played better, has more experience and a bit of guile & luck never hurts.
     
  4. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    +1. He definitely is bitter watching Fed smash almost all his buddy's records.

    Can't remember seeing Nadal break, then get broken back immediately TWICE, on clay.

    Gulbis' BH definitely stands up to the Nadal FH.

    Fun R16 match.
     
  5. OneLove

    OneLove New User

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  6. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    Really, that again?. The match was stopped (rain) at that point, wasn't it?.
     
  7. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Is this the same Gulbis that lost to college guy Steve Johnson last year ?? He is so up and down,,,it is just amazing.......
     
  8. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    No up and down this year!....He has been totally up this year.
     
  9. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    what they couldn't play one more point? It doesn't really matter, i'm talking to a troll, cut me some slack, I do for Nadal fans dealing with fed fan trolls..
     
  10. bullfan

    bullfan Legend

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    It was really telling that it took Gulbis 5 set points to win the first set when he was in the driver's seat at that point. That's why Gulbis needs to work on his mental state.
     
  11. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    After watching the highlights I have to say, Gulbis has awesome defensive movement and massive wingspan when he commits to getting to every ball. Some of the balls Rafa was feeding on his forehand side went way out of the court yet Gulbis reached them almost effortlessly.

    I can also see what Rafa meant about Gulbis pacing himself. Ernie was just whacking the cover of the ball 2/3 of this match and when it worked, it was great for him. Once Nadal started getting some rhythm into this match and Ernie's game drifted towards UE land then the momentum slowly shifted.

    If Ernie picked his moments, he could have won this one in 2 sets. Instead the brainlessly ballbashed almost all the match and lost(he had more aces, more winners, won more overall points but still lost because he made critical errors in key points of the match). But hey, he is on the right track. The power and talent is there, so is the physical side. He just needs to work on his restrain a bit. IMO he should be trying to get a sort of Federer equilibrium, always try to be on the offensive but not recklessly, only when you see or create openings do you really go for it.

    Brainless ballbashing will only get you so far.
     
  12. monfed

    monfed Guest

    By the end of the 2nd set, Ernie had 38 Winners while Mumbles had only 8. What brainless ballbashing are you talking about, all Mumbles does is wait and wait and wait for his opponent to commit an UE and when Mumbles's fluke gets land on the friggin line then it makes matters worse. You're gonna give me a big thesis about how Mumbles was much better, but save it I'm not interested. Just had to call you out on your crap of calling Ernie a brainless ballbasher.

    Nadal fans don't want to face it but Ernie deserved to win this match in straights,it never should've gone to a third had Ernie not got broken thanks to Ralph's fluke gets landing on the line repeatedly in the 8th game.
     
  13. tusharlovesrafa

    tusharlovesrafa Hall of Fame

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    Rafa WON the match,deal with it.:twisted:
     
  14. bullfan

    bullfan Legend

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    Winning is about getting the job done. Rafa did, Ernests didn't, it's pretty simple. One can have all the ingredients, but not know how to put them together, and that is what Gulbis is at this point when it comes to top tier players. It's also about mental fortitude, which Gulbis needs to work on. It should not have taken Gulbis 5 tries to win the first set given how he was owning Rafa at that point. Gulbis has talent, he just needs more work, mostly in his head, but secondly in his tactics.
     
  15. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    You wanna know why I said that?

    Because he didn't think WHEN to ballbash. It's true, like you said, that for most of this match his ballbashing did work and it worked beautifully.

    But oh wise monfed, ask yourself: HOW did Ernie lose a match where he had 40 more winners than Nadal, 15 aces to Rafa's O and breadsticked him in the first? I'll tell you why: because he didn't think what to do on the important points, that's why I called him brainless. Heck, it even took him several SP to win the first set, a set in which he thoroughly dominated Nadal.

    I know you're a hater but do you honestly think Nadal "fluked" his way past a guy that gave him 59 winners to digest? That shows incredible resilience on Nadal's part. He could haver just said "this guy is on fire" today and lost peacefully in 2 sets because it's not like Rafa had a great day at the office. Instead he slowly forced Gulbis to play longer rallies when he could and got through by the skin of his teeth.

    Heck, even Nadal said that Gulbis should pace himself more on court because he is very talented. Gulbis took 1 set in the last 5 out of 6 meetings he had with Nadal and yet he lost all the matches he's ever played with Nadal(3 on clay, 2 on HC, 1 on grass) even though he is the perfect type of player to take it to Nadal. What does that tell you about his head?
     
  16. tusharlovesrafa

    tusharlovesrafa Hall of Fame

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    does any one have the link for rafa/gulbis match highlights?
     
  17. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    He took the break before Roger served out I think. The match did get stopped on MP.
     
  18. rafan

    rafan Hall of Fame

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    Peter Flemming summed this match up and gave the truth. Its all very well these players giving the frights to the top four but if they want to prove themselves then they have to do it week after week- like Ferrer and only then will we see the real talent
     
  19. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    That's not a lot of unforced errors though for the way Gulbis was playing. I just don't like that uber aggressive, but I lose in the end game. That many errors equates to almost 12 games. Pretty ridiculous to me, especially if you lose.
     
  20. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    No it won't. Matse--- whatever his name is did it, and Nadal was laughing with his camp about it. Of course he went on to beat the guy. That's what he came for. The bottles don't mean a thing.

    Silly guy. Doing it because one of the commentators suggested it a while back. Still got his behind whipped, lol.
     
  21. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    They don't get it. They like wham bam and think everyone else should like it too, even in the case of a loss. While others like strategy and the player actually accomplishing the mission. Isn't that the point?
     
  22. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Gotta agree with you on that.
     
  23. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    The match got stopped by rain on match point. Rafa took the break before it was started again, like right before, so the umpire said go quick and he did.
    I could be misremembering but I really don't think so.

    People talk like he actually stopped the game on match point for a bathroom break.
     
  24. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    Yep, that's what a lot of people don't get about Nadal's game apparently. Or don't appreciate.

    The stats obviously look on Gulbis' favour because the first set was so unbalanced.
     
  25. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Interesting assessments. Thanks for the vids.
     
  26. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    That goes without saying..or should. Good point about the winners and aces stats. How do you lose a match that way?
     
  27. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Well, different people can have a different impression of the match (especially if they're desperate to see one side lose), I can only give you my impression and recommend that if you can get your hands on the match or catch a rerun definitely do so as it was one of the best matches this year IMO.

    I didn't mention one thing which Namelessone touched upon, Gulbis moves quite good for a big guy and with that wingspan of his he did a nice job of defending against Rafa's shots (which isn't easy due to the angles Rafa generates), of course I doubt he has the stamina/fitness to commit to that from start to finish but on important games/points maybe.
     
  28. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    In that game Gulbis also missed a relatively easy overhead so he's to blame as well, regarding Nadal's lucky defensive gets, you didn't forget Gulbis broke back with a FH that barely got over the netcord?
     
  29. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    awesome vid... what a pace !!! :D

    you can really feel him getting butchered... it's a delight. please, i want a vid like this for the soderlingement day too...
    (and all our favorite denadalizations !)
     
  30. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

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    We need more videos like that. Watching Nadal so annoyed is so fun! :)
     
  31. Cfidave

    Cfidave Professional

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    This guy has the weapons to beat Nadal. Just a matter of time, a little less luck on Nadal's side.
     
  32. underground

    underground Legend

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    Gulbis doesn't actually sound so arrogant when you watch his interviews.
     
  33. maruzo

    maruzo Semi-Pro

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    Anyone who's watched the game will tell you that Gulbis was the better player in that match. No questions.

    If I had to choose, I rather play like him and lose than play like Nadal and win.

    Why? Because Gulbis's got much better game. His shots are incredible, and 16, 25, 16 winners? Come on!

    Nadal had like 3, 10, 3 winners.

    Gulbis was hitting drop shot winners, backhand winners, forehand winners, valley winners, overheads... He showed that he's an all court player with the ability to hit winners from all angles and all sides of the court.

    That is something that Nadal lacked, completely, in that match.

    He's annoyed because he knew he didn't deserve to win that match.

    But he did. Credits goes to his lack of unforced errors and better composure during crucial points.

    That does not make him the better nor more exciting player to watch.

    It was so much fun watching Gulbis coming up with multiple winners, time and again, against the one player in the tour who gets back just about any kind of balls that his opponents threw at him.

    That should be the warning sign for Nadal.

    Gulbis had 90 % of the game in his pocket. All he really needs to do, and it's relatively easy, is to calm down during the crucial points. That is it. I wouldn't even worry about his unforced errors. Because as long as he's on the plus side, and he's drawing confidence from his big plays, then his playing style is positive for him.
     
  34. maruzo

    maruzo Semi-Pro

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    Unbalanced is not the right word. It was "lopsided"

    unbalanced sounds like Gulbis should've given nadal a few more games to make it a even fight.

    haha....

    fans, player can do no wrong in their eyes.
     
  35. mightyrick

    mightyrick Hall of Fame

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    Anybody who plays tennis will tell you that Gulbis was not the better player. Gulbis lost. Unless a loss is due to injury, the better player wins in tennis.

    You don't get points for "style" or manner of play. I understand that you may find Gulbis' style more attractive and admirable (which are personal preferences), but that doesn't make him better.

    At the pro-level, 90% is FAR from enough. There are players who frequently will get within 95% or closer to the top-5. And even that still isn't enough. The margins that separate the top players are miniscule. We're talking one or two points many times.

    I agree that Gulbis does need to calm down. But he also needs to realize that he needs to add variety, patience, and strategy to his game. That will require slowing the ball down and setting up points. You can't just try to hit a winner all the time. You have to rally a little bit, find your opening, and then strike.

    Gulbis was just smashing every single ball. That will work every once in a great while, but more often than not, you'll get completely destroyed with that approach.
     
  36. maruzo

    maruzo Semi-Pro

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    It's not his styles. It's his outrageous winners compared to Nadal's. It's his 15 aces compared to Nadal's 0. Nadal got outplayed in that match. A monkey could've see that. Gulbis was the better player because he played much better than Nadal.

    Nadal outlasted Gulbis in that match. He did not outplay Gulbis. That is the difference between ur opinion and mine. You clearly thought Nadal outplayed Gulbis. But it's the other way around.

    Just smashing every ball won't get you 59 winners and 15 aces in a match, sir.

    Just slicing back every shot and keeping the ball in play does not made you a grand slam champion, either.

    Nadal got outplayed, clear and simple.

    He knew how to win, that's why he outlasted and endured Gulbis. But boy was he boring to watch. And a litle disrespectful to watch. Because he didn't put in the same level of fight that Gulbis took to him.
     
  37. maruzo

    maruzo Semi-Pro

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    The thing that pisses me off the most, was how boring Nadal was in that match.

    Great champions learns how to win playing in their "B" games.

    Fed does it, Nadal does it, and Novak has recently learned how to do it, somewhat.

    I have to say, it's much more fun watching Fed winning with his "B" game than watching Nadal winning with his "B" game.

    I'm guessing it's the way Fed plays. His genius shows through even when he doesn't have his "A" game.

    Nadal uses slices and endurance to outlast players who are throwing bombs at him. Which is fine, everyone does it. But.... if you over do it, it's almost disrespectful to the other player, who gives his 100% only to be dealt back mediocre dink shots and slices, time and again.

    Tennis is the most fun to watch when both players are giving their very best, both playing at high level, high quality tennis, and the better player prevails, most of the time barely. Case in point, 2012 australian open final. Nadal did great and the match really could have gone either way. And yes, he was totally fun to watch.

    Those on-court drama are what separates a great match from a mediocre one.
     
  38. mightyrick

    mightyrick Hall of Fame

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    Let's just say we disagree. I'm a tennis player. I look at it from a tennis perspective. I see the nuances in how guys like Nadal and Djokovic approach the game... just as readily as I see the nuances in Federer's game.

    If you are just reducing Nadal's game down to "just getting the ball back", then I can obviously understand your perception.

    Let's just say that when I see Nadal play, I see a lot more than that.
     
  39. maruzo

    maruzo Semi-Pro

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    I play tennis as well. Being playing for 30years +

    And I saw Gulbis completely dominated Nadal.

    I also saw how Nadal kept the ball in play, remained calm and won the crucial points.

    So yeah, i saw what you think I didn't see.

    But no, I wouldn't want to play like him. I want to learn Gulbis' game and improve on it by utilzing Nadal's tactics.

    If Gulbis learns from this match, and I believe he will, Nadal will not be a threat to Gulbis the next time around.
     
  40. spinovic

    spinovic Hall of Fame

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    I thought it was pretty evenly contested after the first set - the difference, as usual in Nadal's matches on clay, he wins more of the big points. I don't think Gulbis was "the better player", but neither did Nadal win because Gulbis isn't good enough. He once again showed that he has the talent to be a Top 10 player and a slam contender.

    I really think some of these younger guys are on the cusp of ending the Big 4 era - Gulbis, Dimitrov, Janowicz, etc. They are on the rise and every match like this and big win just gives them more confidence and belief, which will only make them harder to put away the next time.

    I think somebody outside of the top 4 is going to win a slam this year or next - maybe even a couple of guys. But, I could be wrong.
     
  41. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

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    Gulbis played the better tennis but also the worse tennis, if that makes any sense. Nadal just played like Nadal, staying way back and returning balls that landed short most of the time, but he managed to grind it like he always does on clay. Gulbis deffo played the more positive tennis, going for big shots and taking the risks, always taking the initiative, but his UEs count was too big for Nadal's consistency.
     
  42. mightyrick

    mightyrick Hall of Fame

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    Like I said, I don't agree with that assessment of Nadal's game. I also saw that Nadal went for a ton of shots. I saw a Gulbis who did an amazing job moving to retrieve those shots and hit them back with interest.

    When I'm watching these games, I'm just seeing things differently, that's all.
     
  43. bullfan

    bullfan Legend

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    I think the guys you mentioned may be more ready to win Masters Series events than slams. The need more conditioning for the big matches.
     
  44. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Really? Good luck keeping a coach. Nobody's going to want to hang in there with you with an attitude like that.

    Really bad for your own personal finances. I can't imagine preferring to lose. Do you realize how much the money increases by rounds?

    What an odd strategy.
     
  45. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Forget it. The whole post should be bolded.

    The loser wasn't better because somewhere during the match he didn't recognize what was wrong and correct it.

    That going for the fences strategy on every point is just a recipe for disaster. Until Gulbis figures that out he will continue to lose.

    Losing six times and still doing the same thing is pure insanity.
     
  46. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    I guess that's why he lost the match then, right? Gulbis may have hit 59 winners, but he also hit 50 unforced errors which pretty much cancelled out all of those winners. Gulbis is a ballbasher, and runs hot and cold at that. He's talented but he needs a better gameplan than his bash and blast style because it won't be winning him any slams anytime soon.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2013
  47. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    True story. Another overrated basher.
     
  48. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

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    Good call!
     
  49. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    And Nadal hit MORE enforced errors than winners. Gulbis had a better ratio of winners to enforced errors than Nadal. what cost him the match was making errors on a few vital points and Nadal playing very well on vital points. that's what Gulbis needs to improve on. Nadal is a much better match player and can beat people even when they are playing a higher level of tennis because he is better on the big points. Gulbis isn't just a ball basher, he had some good volleys as well. but unless you are Djokovic, ball bashing is the best way to beat Nadal on clay.
     
  50. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    This.

    Yeah, true.

    It is very unusual to see the player with the statistics Rafa had there win and the one with Gulbis' stats lose. It's what can happen when the eventual winner lost a set badly... most of Gulbis' winners are probably from the first set and most of Rafa's UE also.

    Rafa played the important points better but it's not like Gulbis was choking either. He also defended very well.
     

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