Rosewall and Gonzales Careers Official Thread

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by forzamilan90, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    They are about the same level.Roche had a more complete game but was weak menthally.
     
  2. NonP

    NonP Professional

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    Gonzales arguably spent more time as the world's no. 1 than anyone else in the history of tennis. That alone is enough to put him in the GOAT equation.

    As for Rosewall it depends on how much stock you put in longevity and how you calibrate the majors or their equivalents. Incidentally Pancho is probably his only serious challenger (apart from Tilden) in the former respect.

    It's safe to say they both will always be in the discussion.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2013
  3. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, Roche was 20, long before his prime.

    When writing about 22: At that time Rosewall won already his fourth major title.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2013
  4. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Borg had 4 majors by the age of 20
    Mc Enroe had 3
    Wilander had 2
    Boris had 3

    Of course Dallas and Madison were majors them
     
  5. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Sorry, Mats had 3
     
  6. veco

    veco New User

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    anyone can tell me which tournaments in 1961 had rosewall and gonzales in the draw?
     
  7. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    veco, Geneva (winner Gonzalez), French Pro (Rosewall), Wembley (Rosewall), Copenhagen (Gonzalez), Milan (Gonzalez), Vienna (Gonzalez) Pro Challenge Turin (Gonzalez had two wins, Rosewall one win)
     
  8. veco

    veco New User

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    great BobbyOne cheers!
     
  9. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    veco, I rank Rosewall and Gonzalez equal No.1 for 1961. Gonzalez won the great world tour and won more tournaments, Rosewall won the two biggest events.
     
  10. veco

    veco New User

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    the final showdown should have been the sydney tournament.shame gonzales retired just before it.
     
  11. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    veco, I agree. Thus Rosewall won the best claycourt, wood and grasscourt tournament of that year. Not too bad...
     
  12. veco

    veco New User

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    yeah,61 is a tough call..i personally give it to gonzales cause i can't help the feeling that he would own rosewall all over again if they went touring head to head that year..

    to me 60 and 61 are practically the same.it's interesting cause rosewall did the ''major'' thing both years and somehow he is no1 in 61 cause he dodged the tour in the first half of the year and then basically repeated the 1960 sucess (when most saw him as no2).

    1960 - gonzales crushes rosewall hth,then retires and rosewall wins it all
    and people still mostly agreed gonzales was no1
    1961 - gonzales wins the tour without rosewall,then rosewall wins majors and gonzales wins the rest.and rosewall is no1..hmm that's thin.

    in conclusion as you said.joint no1 seems like a fair deal.
     
  13. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    veco, There is a significant difference between 1960 and 1961: In the latter year Gonzalez entered the two biggest events and lost (to Hoad and Rosewall).
     
  14. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

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    Who were the participants in the pro tours of 1960 and 1961?
     
  15. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Flash,

    World series:

    1960: Gonzalez, Rosewall, Segura, Olmedo (final order)

    1961: Gonzalez, Gimeno, Hoad/Trabert, MacKay, Olmedo, Buchholz (final order)

    Other pros in these years participating were Sedgman, Anderson, Copper, Mike Davies, Robert Haillet (two strong Davis Cuppers).
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  16. veco

    veco New User

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    Some posters here mention Gonzales-Segura-Sedgman-Ayre Australian tour that went on in 1955 but i didn't find any info on it on wiki site. Which source claims this tour occured and are there any details available regarding that tour?
     
  17. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    1971 top seven vs 1959
    Rosewall remains
    Laver replaces Hoad
    Nastase Segura
    Smith Kramer
    Ashe Pancho
    Kodes Trabert
    Newk Sedgie
    Which one is better?
     
  18. veco

    veco New User

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    seems 1959 by far..
     
  19. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    veco, In Joe McCauley's book "The History of Professional Tennis" there are a few matches (January 9 to February 1) listed. No final standings are given, alas.

    Benalla: Gonzalez d Ayre 9-7,6-3; Sedgman d Segura 4-6,6-3,6-4

    Stawell: Gonzalez d Sedgman 18-16,6-2; Segura d Ayre 6-3,5-7,7-5

    Kooyong: Sedgman d Gonzalez 6-2, 7-5; Segura d Ayre 6-4,6-1
     
  20. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, Clearly 1959. But Kramer did not play singles in 1959. He did play till 1958.
     
  21. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Wasn't Kramer having small tours against Hoad and Rosewall in 1957? Hoad had just turned professional after winning his second Wimbledon title in a row.
     
  22. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    1959 Rosewall > 1971 Rosewall
    Laver > Hoad
    Nastase = Segura
    Kramer > Smith
    Pancho > Ashe
    Trabert = Kodes
    Newcombe > Sedgman

    I say 1959 slightly.
     
  23. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Mustard, Yes Kramer was playing much in 1957. In the European tour he finished third, behind Rosewall and Hoad (equal) and AHEAD of strong Segura! He often beat Hoad there!
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2013
  24. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    It would be extremely close, but yes, 59 looks a bit better.Nastase was better than Segura and Trabert a bit better than Kodes.Hoad could beat Laver any day and Sedgnam could beat anybody, including Newcombe any time...

    Now, if he add Olmedo, Cooper and Anderson we will have the remaining top ten members of 1959 and if we had Gimeno,Okker and Roche, the remaining top tenners of 1971.IMO, Olmedo beats Gimeno, Okker and Anderson are more or less equivalent and who knwos between Cooper and Roche?
     
  25. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki: I know that Roche was stronger than Cooper: Cooper No.5 at his best, Roche No.2 (only behind Laver). Olmedo never beats Gimeno: Olmedo's best ranking was No.6 and that only once (in my rankings) while Gimeno was No.3 for several years (behind only Laver and Rosewall). Don't distort history!
     
  26. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Maybe you are fine but Olmedo,Anderson and Cooper did much better at am slams than slamless Okker and one timers Gimeno and Roche
    Learn history!!!
     
  27. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, You don't tell me news.

    The difference is: Roche, Okker and Gimeno had to play against peak Laver, Rosewall, Newcombe. The other three had to deal only with amateurs.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013

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