Roughly how many Super Champ players in TX?

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by highsierra, Mar 24, 2014.

  1. highsierra

    highsierra Rookie

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    Sorry this is a question about junior tennis in Texas, not about college tennis. I'm curious roughly how many girls and boys are in the 12s,14s, 16s age groups of the Super Champ category in Texas? I suppose that there are very few in the 12s group given the age eligibility requirement through ZAT and Champ. The 16s age group probably has the most.
     
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  2. watergirl

    watergirl New User

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    As of march 20th-
    G12. 68
    G14. 140
    G16. 200
    G18. 161

    B12. 88
    B14. 142
    B16. 229
    B18. 219

    Texas has 3 levels ZATs, Champs, Super Champs. The numbers are a little less than normal. Several months of rained out qualifying tournaments has reduced each age division by 15-30.
     
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  3. highsierra

    highsierra Rookie

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    Thanks a lot watergirl. Those are a lot fewer than I thought, but come to think of it, it makes sense. It's not easy to move up from ZAT to Champ, and then Champ to Super Champ. The drop from 16s to 18s is interesting. I guess it's extremely difficult to move up to Super Champ if you are older than 16 and are not already a Super Champ.

    I suppose that all the 18s Super Champ become college players (if they want) at various colleges.

    BTW, are the stats available somewhere?
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2014
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  4. watergirl

    watergirl New User

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    You can go to the USTA rankings for the Texas section. Remember these are only kids who have earned points to be ranked. Also Texas is a big state and some kids don't/can't travel 5 and 6 or more hours to a tournament. West Texas kids are frequently under rated because of this. Also El Paso kids are part of the southwest section and some Texarkana kids play in Missouri valley.

    Just looking at b16 - There are 618 ranked ZATs, 275 champs and 229 Supers.
     
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  5. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

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    It has actually become easier now to advance up in TX with year around ZAT and Champ tournaments, yes it is still rolling 5 results, but 10-15 yrs ago you had 5 tournaments in the Spring to advance to Champ, then it was wait a full year. Then trying to advance from Champ to SC was even tougher. Actually love the TX system breaking it down to three levels, you will not have as many complete mismatches.
     
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  6. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

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    Texarkana kids typically have played in Southern
     
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  7. atatu

    atatu Hall of Fame

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    The drop from 16's to 18's is to be expected, I think. A lot of those kids get into high school tennis and then stop travelling for tournaments. In addition, once they are in high school they develop other interests and other priorities. I would guess only about half of the SC kids actually go on to play college tennis ? Just an estimate.
     
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  8. watergirl

    watergirl New User

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    Zats is a rolling 5 but champs is 3 tournaments for 85 points. It is pretty hard and there are only 2 tournaments a month though the TX section has added a couple of doubles only tournaments that champ players can super from and gain points from.

    Stand corrected - Southern.

    So to Champ up from ZATS - best 5 tournaments - must total 65 points.
    5 tournaments offered each month but can only play 1 ZAT a month.

    To Super up from Champs - best 3 tournament - must total 80 for 14 -18's.
    12's - best of 4 tournaments - must total 65
    2 tournaments offered each month but can only play 1 champ a month.
     
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  9. watergirl

    watergirl New User

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    I would agree with atatu. I can speak to the 18's. A lot of the absolute top kids have stopped playing sectionals, some kids that have signed have stopped playing all but the main events - Excellence/Slams, the kids who were a year ahead have turned 19 and aged out, etc...

    Fot the 18 boys - those who are Seniors in the top 100 - 24 have committeed, 25 have not (but are planning to play) and 3 are not going to play (want to go to UT, Baylor, A & M). The rest are juniors and a few are freshman at college and playing.
     
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  10. highsierra

    highsierra Rookie

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    thanks again watergirl. I found the numbers on the USTA site. Knowing that young kids need to go through the red, orange, green balls age groups, I'm surprised that there are even 12s Super Champs. Guess these kids started really early.
     
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  11. atatu

    atatu Hall of Fame

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    Not to get off topic, but my son was playing next to two 16's supers at a tournament over the weekend and I was amazed at how good these kids were, it was truly amazing.
     
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  12. tgtennisace

    tgtennisace New User

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    i am a former superchamp and currently D1 tennis player...i loved the texas system as challenging as it was. Boys 18s superchamps majors A draw are usually as good as any national tournament out there and have to grind every single round no one is gonna give you a match
     
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  13. highsierra

    highsierra Rookie

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    tgtennisace, good that you successfully played all the way to college and didn't burn out. I suppose that it's a fine balance between playing hard and still enjoying playing it. Mind to share a bit info like at what ages you became a champ and super champ? Did you already train a lot when you were 11-12?
     
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  14. tgtennisace

    tgtennisace New User

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    Hey highsierra,

    I was a superchamp in all age groups (12,14,16,18) but growing up i never thought i would play tennis. I played selected basketball all the way up to 8th grade and didnt really start to take tennis seriously until i was in 7th/8th grade. I trained at a public tennis center for my first few years then to a local academy along with playing high school tennis too. I was never homeschooled and went to public high school all 4 years. I never really played that many nationals (under the old system) unless they were in texas. Once i hit 14/15, i was already played 18s regularly qualifying for the qualifying draw in 18s excellence at 15. 18s is by far the most important age group if looking to play in college obviously. My senior of high school i played mostly mens open tournaments because they were closer and juniors didnt matter once i signed my NLI. If you have any more questions feel free to ask away.
     
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  15. Ferbious

    Ferbious Banned

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    whats funny is that supers have actually trimmed down and are still gettin gsmaller sinnce last year when they changed the rules for who gets to stay in supers (top 35%) and how the tournaments are assigned different point values now
     
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  16. watergirl

    watergirl New User

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    A few years back 4 -6 - if you were in the 14 or 16 supers it was as low as the top 25% to stay in. Within Supers there is definitely several breaks in levels (as I am sure there are in most sections). The ones in the top 5-10 are really outstanding players.
     
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  17. AHJS

    AHJS Professional

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    Supers is where its at! some serious quality tennis there and im so glad to be a part of it!
     
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  18. Ferbious

    Ferbious Banned

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    the supers in the top 100 could just about be top 20 level in any section excluding florida and california and maybe some others

    texas is sooooo tough basically all good texas kids go to a top school and every other to a d1 or d2
     
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  19. csmason1

    csmason1 New User

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    It's a "Rolling 4" for ZAT to Champ qualification

    From the "Junior Know the Rules" of USTA Texas:

    5. How to qualify to the Championship level?
    a) Players must accumulate a minimum of 65 ZAT qualifying points.
    b) Qualifying points are calculated based on the best four (4) tournaments in a rolling twelve-month period.
    c) When ZAT players qualify to Championship Level:
    i) A qualifier packet and certificate from the Texas Section office will be mailed by the end of the month in
    which they qualify.
    ii) The first Championship Major Zone they may enter is the one held in the month after qualification.
    iii) If they wish to play "other" tournaments in the month they qualify, they may do so as long as they meet
    the entry deadline for the tournament. Players will be placed into the correct draw depending on their
    level at the time of the deadline

    Basically you MUST make a ZAT final in order to qualify to champs. Even with four SF losses or winning four consolation draws, you only get 16 points for each. That puts you one point shy of qualification. The ZATs held in the larger areas (Houston, Dallas & Austin) are notoriously tougher places to qualify than the ZATs in Corpus Christi, Abilene, Amarillo, Kerrville, etc. Even the San Antonio talent pool is noticeably less than the "Big 3".
     
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  20. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    The best part about the ZAT/Champ/Super system is the draws are smaller and matches are with similar skill levels. In CA the draws are massive and there are many 0,0 matches
     
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  21. atatu

    atatu Hall of Fame

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    Yeah the fact that you must make a final delays some kids from champing up, but eventually the ones who stick with it make it. I think it's tougher to champ up in the 12's than the 14's or 16's.
     
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  22. KarmaKorps

    KarmaKorps Rookie

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  23. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

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    remember the old days where you had five cracks at qualifying for Champs Jan-May, then no more ZATs until next year, last chance tournament in June for the Top 8 pt getters from each zone. Had to go that route my first year 18's had 48 pts qualified for masters and took out kids with 56 and 60 pts in that tournament to qualify. Ahh the good old days before the rolling points.
     
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  24. csmason1

    csmason1 New User

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    The new rules are more because the ZAT entry numbers were way down in 2015 compared to 2014, as 2014 were compared to 2013. I'm not certain it's "easier" to qualify; that will be true only if enough kids sign up in each division to create new draws and therefore, more qualifiers. 33-64 entries make 2 draws, 65-96 make 3 draws, etc. I do think that we'll see more entries each month, but the Challengers (previously ZATs) are only held on 2 different weekends each month so while you can "enter as many as you want", the reality is that the max you can play per month is 2. There's also a 1-day option with 16-player draws and lower point cap (the winner only gets 16 points). I'll be curious to see how these tourneys do with entries; if they're held on different weekends from the 2-day Challengers, they could do well especially among the "frequent flier" kids.

    Regarding which age group is most difficult to super champ, there's little doubt that the 12s is toughest. While you can champ up from the 10s green ball, it's really difficult and only a handful of boys/girls do so each year. The simple fact that a solid champ or super in the 12s (top 35% or top 35 overall) automatically qualifies for the same level in the 14s, makes it much easier to reach the 14s supers. At least among girls, I've seen many 14s supers that are routinely beaten at open tourneys by 12s supers. There are about twice as many 14s supers than 12s. Almost every active 12s super girl that I've seen over the past couple of years has gone on to be in the top half of the 14s super girls; the remaining 14s supers are filled out mostly by girls who were 12s champs but couldn't quite get the 65 points before they aged up.
     
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  25. Ihatetennis

    Ihatetennis Hall of Fame

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    In 12s I didn't super but champed and in 14s I went down to zats and then I champed up and supered up and then down in 16s were I supered and got to a draw and now 18s border of a and b

    12s was by far the hardest age group, so much more depth in zats and champs than any other age group I played
     
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  26. csmason1

    csmason1 New User

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    This is a good point. The depth is more due to the smaller number of champs and supers in the 12s. There are really very few "easy" matches in the 12s champs or supers. Also, b/c of the fewer number of champs in the 12s, there is often only one draw at each CMZ which means fewer qualifiers each month and more retention of talent in the champs level.
     
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