Round Robin Format needs modification

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by bdawg, Nov 27, 2009.

  1. bdawg

    bdawg Semi-Pro

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    After watching both Andy Murray and Novak Djokovic fall victim to seemingly trivial rules, I have become more disillusioned by the round robin format. Perhaps they should allow a one match playoff to determine second place? Better yet, they should invite the top ten.
     
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  2. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    No.

    It needs retirement.
     
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  3. akv89

    akv89 Hall of Fame

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    It's fine the way it is. Del Potro and Davydenko performed better than Murray and Djokovic. Hence they are the qualifiers.
     
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  4. rhubarb

    rhubarb Hall of Fame

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    Fine as it is - no changes required to the system.

    The ATP need to be able to calculate the results/scenarios rather better and quicker to avoid the kind of mess we saw yesterday, but changing the rules, no.
     
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  5. AM95

    AM95 Hall of Fame

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    @bdawg...who's your favorite player?

    if you say murray then i know that your just pissy that he got knocked out
     
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  6. bdawg

    bdawg Semi-Pro

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    I am more of a shot-maker and all around tennis fan so I tend to favor Federer and players like Del Potro or Djokovic. I am definitely not a fan of watching Murray as he is incredibly boring.

    I just hate to see important tournaments decided on trivial parameters such as percentage of games won. Tennis is about defeating your opponent, not winning the greatest number of games.

    Why is a playoff out of the question?
     
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  7. defrule

    defrule Professional

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    I would have 2 groups with points based on sets won.

    After a match, players get points based on how many sets won. Straight set win, 2 points and 3 sets to 1, 3 points to winner and 1 point to loser.

    After all round robin matches, highest two in each group go through.
     
    #7
  8. matchmaker

    matchmaker Hall of Fame

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    Tennis is a sport of direct elimination. Round robin must go.
     
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  9. tacou

    tacou Legend

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    yes, and if Murray had beat Federer/Djokovic beat Soderling, they'd both be in.
     
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  10. tacou

    tacou Legend

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    so WTF should be a 3 round tournament? boring. we've got the 8 best in the world all playing each other. it's different and a perfect way to end the season.
     
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  11. bdawg

    bdawg Semi-Pro

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    I would much rather see a two week tournament featuring the top ten players in the world. I understand the logistical issues surrounding such an idea, but it would make the tournament more fair, and have the same hype as a grandslam.

    I don't mind the round robin format, but there are too many instances of players going 2-1 and getting eliminated for sets lost, etc...
     
    #11
  12. JeMar

    JeMar Legend

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    It works fine. Murray won less games than Del Potro, and Djokovic won less games than Davydenko.

    If anything, this guarantees that the more deserving players move through. You're just upset that Murray and/or Djokovic didn't make it through their groups.

    Remember that Murray could've advanced if he had taken the latter stages of his match against Federer a little more seriously. He basically gave up at the end there. That game could've been the difference between qualifying and getting some extra time off.
     
    #12
  13. tacou

    tacou Legend

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    I don't understand how a 2week/10player tournament would work. RR isn't as drastic a change as some people think; the mentality should be the same--win all RR matches and you will advance to the semis, any matches you lose throw your chances into the ATP rule book.
     
    #13
  14. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Nothing trivial about it...they didn't win as much as the others...so they don't go through. Maybe Djoko should have thought about that before he moped through his match with Soderling. The players who won the most go through. Pretty simple.
     
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  15. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    WTF it about consistency in the year. So the matches have to be consistency in dominance. If Djokovic and murray got beat by the system that means they weren't dominantly consistent. I agree with all the semifinalsts in the draw. No Nadal and Verdasco who weren't playing that well.
     
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  16. Defcon

    Defcon Hall of Fame

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    The current system punishes players who don't play to win. e.g. as a result the pushers are out.

    It is perfect the way it is.
     
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  17. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    If I win 6-0 6-0, and my buddy wins his match 6-4 6-4, who played better?
     
    #17
  18. _maxi

    _maxi Banned

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    I agree with you 100%.
     
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  19. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    I agree. Plus it has a bit of cruelty/drama in it lol. Two players could try and kill each other, one would win but possibly will not go on because of another player's performance at a different match. It's a bit twisted but fun.
     
    #19
  20. GustafsonFanatic

    GustafsonFanatic Banned

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    And how did Murray and Simon reach the semis last year?
     
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  21. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    I don't see whats wrong with it the rules have been the same for years.
     
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  22. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Only when it eliminates their favorite players.
     
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  23. flyinghippos101

    flyinghippos101 Legend

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    No, tennis is about defeating your opponent BY winning the greater number of games... :neutral:
     
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  24. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

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    RR is different unique event and should be kept the way it is.
     
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  25. Cody

    Cody Semi-Pro

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    I wouldn't call it perfect but it is nice for a change to end the season.

    It could do with a few modifications like the changing of the pencentage based game wins that decide who goes though.
     
    #25
  26. Defcon

    Defcon Hall of Fame

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    People who don't like the rules, pick one -

    1. propose a better system
    2. get rid of RR

    Otherwise shut up.
     
    #26
  27. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    In soccer, FIFA changed the rules after the 1978 WC fiasco, when Argentina knew exactly how many goals they needed to score, to surpass Brazil. The last matches have to be played at the same time. I think, its problematic, that in the round robin, the later match's players know the score. It gives them room to fabricate the score. Better let them play at the same time on different courts. I remember Lendl purposely chicken out the last match of the group, to avoid playing Borg in the semis.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2009
    #27
  28. Cody

    Cody Semi-Pro

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    How about a Swiss System Tournament

    The first round is either drawn at random or seeded according to rating. Players who win receive a point, losers receive no points. Win or lose all players proceed to the next round where winners are pitted against winners, losers are pitted against losers, and so on. In subsequent rounds, players face opponents with the same (or almost the same) score

    I really don't know how this would work tho.

    Forgive my mind it needs sleep.
     
    #28
  29. GustafsonFanatic

    GustafsonFanatic Banned

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    That's the main issue, match fixing is possible.

    Maybe they should just follow FIFA and make them play both matches at the same time.
     
    #29
  30. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

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    No the current system is fine. It encourages players to go after 6-1, 6-0 sets to ensure semifinal qualification. In fact, I'd say it encourages BETTER performances rather then tanking.
     
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  31. Rogeforever

    Rogeforever New User

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    Round Robin is a year end event where only the best top eight players have earned the right to participate...It's tough and demanding to pull through this one --- You have to give every ounce that's left in you to earn this title... I like it very much and want it to stay as it is...
     
    #31
  32. Rogeforever

    Rogeforever New User

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    The Players must voice their likes or dislikes on the format of this Round Robin Event because they're the ones participating and from what it looks like so far, I have not read or heard of any complaints from them...
     
    #32
  33. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

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    The amazing thing with RR in YEC is there really isn't room to maneuver. You have to give it your total commitment because you are ONLY playing the top 8.
     
    #33
  34. Cody

    Cody Semi-Pro

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    I doubt murray is happy.

    [​IMG]

    There have been reports he pushed his television right out the window.
     
    #34
  35. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

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    Good riddance to the pusher. He's one player I actually don't care to see in the game. There has never been anything about him that's been appealing.
     
    #35
  36. Cody

    Cody Semi-Pro

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    Tell me about it.

    Is it also true he was created from the combined DNA of a Peacock, ostrich and a touch of hewitt for the Come On's.
     
    #36
  37. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

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    Like I said, hands down the most annoying player in the top 25.
     
    #37
  38. callitout

    callitout Professional

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    They are not going to increase the size of the field--allowing say top 32 in this tournament. It wouldnt be a serious accomplishment to qualify for year end championships. Imagine the lack of excitement surrounding the fight to be #32.
    So the logical single elimation format would be First Round 1 v 8 2 v 7 3 v 6 4v 5
    Second round wnners play
    Finals
    With a field of 8 you get a maximum of 3 matches in a single elimination format. They currently have a format with 5 matches. I doubt people want to watch 3rd place playoffs and the like to milk more matches out of the tournament.
     
    #38
  39. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

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    Just ignore the naysayers, YEC is fine.
     
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  40. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    By being the only 2 people in their group to have a 2-1 record?
     
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  41. Rogeforever

    Rogeforever New User

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    It's ok to have favorit players---I like Federer but at the same time must give credit to all other players where credit is due. I like the style and consistency of Davydenko as well as Djocovic, Del Potro and sometimes I can even admire Roddick and Murray or Nadal but it seems that most players are up and down like water fountains so it's hard to know how great of a talent they really are. It's a tough one to know where a player thats great today ends up tomorrow and for what reasons. Sofar I can see, they all are playing their hearts out and they all want to win. This is enough for me to admire and respect because I love the sport of Tennis
     
    #41
  42. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

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    ^^^^
    That's what's called being a fan of tennis rather then just being a '****. Thank you.
     
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  43. Cody

    Cody Semi-Pro

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    A Tennistard you could say.

    All my favorite moments in tennis come when two players are in the zone and pushing each other two the limits.
     
    #43
  44. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

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    I used to be just a pure ******* but I learned in the last year how stifling that was. I realized that what drew me to Federer in the first place was the TENNIS. So I'm a fan of tennis as much as I am of Roger.
     
    #44
  45. Rogeforever

    Rogeforever New User

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    It's only my opinion but there is nothing wrong with the format or the rules of Round Robin. It is the fairest implication of a package as far as the eye can see and I don't understand why it should need modification...
     
    #45
  46. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    I agree. And we get to see how they match up with other players in the round robin format with the elite 8. So far we had multiple 3 setters and match up/ upsets that you probably would not expect on paper. Youre right, the more tennis the better.
     
    #46
  47. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    the year-end masters is all fine as it is.
    this RR format featuring the top8 is also what makes it a unique and great way to conclude the season...
     
    #47
  48. tacou

    tacou Legend

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    yes! page 3 of this thread=most logical posts on TT in a long while.

    people should be a fan of matches, not players (exclusively).

    also, year end = round robin! changing that makes it no longer the year end tournament, just another tournament.
     
    #48
  49. lawrence

    lawrence Hall of Fame

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    It really depends on who the opponent was and how their game matches up against yours and his etc.
     
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