RPT Spanish Training Model

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by tennis_balla, Dec 8, 2009.

  1. W Cats

    W Cats Rookie

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    Group Lesson vs. Private Lessons.

    Julian in the situation you describe I would tend to disagree with your conclusion or implication about it not being a group lesson. To me a private lesson revolves around 1 persons needs period. The task, tecnical content, drill, progression, mini progressions, pace of the lesson, practice time, difficulty level, physical threshold levels, tactical application all revolve around one persons needs. To provide a service of the above to a group of 4/5 is simple unrealistic and gives me a headache even to think about. That is not to say that you can't give everyone individual feedback about how they are performing to the group task and make corrective or reinforcing comments.

    Bkgrd: This is from the point of view of a non certified teaching pro. I'm just a high school coach. But I have 18 years of ski teaching experience and am fully ceritfied in that industry and had gotten as far as the regional clinician/examiner pool.
     
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  2. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    The "mirrors" is a description to illustrate the position of the racquet to the student at certain points in the swing - the idea being that the back of the stringbed is a mirror and that at the key progressions the student can "see their reflection in the mirror"
     
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  3. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    You either need to have done the MOAP+ and scored National Professional or at least level 3 qualified with another training provider - LTA, USPTA etc so with your DCA you'll be fine. There's a series of teaching assessments during the course, a presentation, and create a portfolio to demonstrate your understanding of the training programme showing your work with 2 advanced players and one of your teams. This will include lesson plans, coaching log, periodisation plans, video technical analysis, psychology, fitness etc…You will also be required to present a project of a minimum of 3,000 words from a range of subjects.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
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  4. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    At the moment yes the only way to get the info is to take the course, for which you get the course manual. We may produce a book or DVD in the UK in the near future. Luis Mediero has produced many books and DVD's over the years so those might be worth looking for.
     
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  5. Xenakis

    Xenakis Hall of Fame

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    Thanks makes sense, the coach at my club is RPT and he mentioned 'mirrors' to me the other day, as did an assistant coach (who did his RPT in Birmingham somewhere recently, think he is qualified as an assistant coach now)

    Wasn't sure what it meant but knew it was about being able to see through the strings on forehands and backhands.

    I've been working on my serve after having my first lesson the other day (with RPT coach), wasn't pronating properly and my ball toss was in the wrong place (too far in front, should be more over my head). Should be better in the end but it will take some work.

    Will take another lesson for my serve then move on to groundstrokes hopefully, I don't have a limitless budget so I need to use the lessons efficiently.
     
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  6. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    @Xenakis

    He would have done his course at Sutton Coldfield. Which club are you at? I might know your coach!
     
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  7. Xenakis

    Xenakis Hall of Fame

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    Moseley. You probably know him, not sure he would want to be name checked on the internets though. Perhaps, perhaps not =)
     
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  8. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, I probably do know him then!
     
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  9. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    Progressions for serve

    Hi,
    next you may think about progressions for serve.
    You should decide:
    a toss straight up or a "rainbow toss" ?
    a platform or pinpoint?
    I expect thinking about will kill your weekend completely.
    By the way in States we have to work
    during weekends,we will have VAT and we do NOT celebrate a BOXING DAY

    PS I do NOT have a sense of humor.
     
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  10. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    Julian - are this cryptic when you coach? :)

    As regards the progressions with the serve, I know what progressions I teach for the technical aspects of the swing and I know what I teach around that that in respect of ball toss, footwork etc - all based on evidence derived from what happens at the top levels of tennis.

    Either you are taking the idea idea of progression based teaching a little too literally or you're being deliberately obtuse! :)
     
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  11. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Julian you actually have to 'work' when you coach? You're in it for the wrong reasons man :p
    I'm kidding, but anyways no fighting guys :mrgreen:
     
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  12. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    It gets worse

    It gets worse.I played against a junior and got injured.
    Probably should stay away from the forum as well
     
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  13. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    It's the obtuse thing, but not deliberate, cause it is a natural state. :)
     
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  14. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    @5263

    There's been a lot of chatter on this thread about progressive teaching systems - does the MTM have a similar setup for teaching each shot?
     
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  15. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    So, I guess the last MTM thread got deleted? Hope this one stays up and hopefully benefits some people. Only way to do that it seems is to keep it MTM free :razz:

    Naa, just kidding guys but keep it clean :mrgreen:
     
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  16. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, I think the other thread got a little off topic and a bit personal between Drak, BB and 5263.

    Balla - have you been using the RPT ideas in your own coaching since the course and how have you found it?
     
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  17. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Of course, otherwise I wouldn't of taken it :p

    I found it really helpful, mostly in the fact that some of the ideas that were in my head such as not putting everyone into the same mold and treating players as individuals, developing an all-court model but of course the player will always choose which he or she prefers best and then working together on that to get best results kinda felt...out of place sometimes cause I was the only one talking about things like that. So it was good to hear it from them, didn't seem like I was coo-coo and the course fit really well for me. I wasn't lost or didn't know what was going on or anything like that. If that makes sense, its kind of difficult to describe.

    They are big on video reviews over there which I love to use also. Problem is last place I worked at had a video camera from '95 with a battery that lasted about 4 min, and this was a 5 star tennis resort, rated Top 25 in the world by some tennis review site. Not sure if I should laugh or cry about that so I'll just be :-|

    In terms of the drills I love them cause they are so simple and productive. It surprised a lot of people cause they told me they never moved like that during drills with a coach before but loved it cause it was how they are forced to move or would like to move in a match. Also you can see how the players get it and improve on their movement fairly quickly, so its satisfying as a coach.
     
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  18. Wegner

    Wegner Rookie

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    A useful tip: The power of simplicity

    What is the strength that separates the very top pros from the rest of the field.

    Is it technique, focus, mental strength, tactics, or all of the above? You could very well call it a combination of all of those. But in a very special way.

    Strangely enough, they are interrelated in one particular aspect. They are all geared to help each other in simplifying the task. The body helps the stroke, the focus helps the mind, the timing helps the power, the tactics are to use your strength.

    How could all this happen and not get lost in a maze of data? Very simply. Let's make an absurd example. Lets say you are a well taught player, by conventional teaching standards, and you are in the final of the US Open. You pay attention to your feet position, the path of your backswing, you make sure you prepare early for the shot (you already pictured in your mind where the ball is going to bounce and how), you are also thinking of where you are going to hit the shot to make sure you don't miss it, and secondly, to get your opponent on the run. What would happen? You probably miss the ball entirely!

    Well, that is what conventional tennis coaching does to the average player. You have been told that you do all that and one day you'll be a champ! Unfortunately all you'll get is to look like a "chump".

    Top pros achieve a delicate balance of timing, power, control, coordination, focus, and endurance with their instinct and feel. They are focusing on the ball and let their instinct work things out, finding the ball as well as possible, and then let power fly. They judge their stroke by its feel.

    They have practiced long enough to know what is efficient, what will produce the desired result, and what not.

    Most of the top pros today have had a role model when they were kids, not just of conduct, but a player they admired as a performer and his/her strokes. Imitation of top players does give you some of the best technique available. If your admired player is weak in one stroke, you can always copy that particular swing from another top pro.

    To sum it up, the best technique is that which lets you feel the most. If you observe the ball all the way, you find it well, and have a reasonable stroke, with a nice feel and a known finish, you need to think of nothing else.

    Overall, stay in present time and don't rush. You have more time than you think.

    So simplify your tennis, feel the ball in your strings, and avoid thinking of anything else but the ball.

    If you have trouble clearing your mind, count to five, 1 at the bounce, the 2, 3, 4, a little pause, and then hit at 5.

    The first by-product is, you'll focus on the ball better. The second, you'll find there is more time than you think.
     
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  19. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    Is this what the pro's do? Even to take the ball early?

    Also, many of us have asked recently about shots other than groundstrokes, what is the MTM theory regarding the serve or the volley?

    Oh, and while you're here do you genuinely believe that the top players don't focus (or havent spent time in the past focusing) on their footwork patterns?

    I look forward to your responses.
     
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  20. Wegner

    Wegner Rookie

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    This counting to five is to make players aware that timing is not a rush, but a tiny moment of observation of the ball AFTER the bounce. Try it in practice, you may like it. Of course you drop off the counting once you are playing well.
    On the volleys timing is also of the essence. Try the counting in practice, 1 when the other player hits it, up to 5 when you hit the volley. If you don't try it, you will not believe how much time you have. Don't take my word for it. Try it.
    On your serve, after you toss the ball, don't you pause for a tiny instant, gathering your power to strike the ball. I bet you don't rush it if you are a good player.
    Those tiny pauses are what is the difference of an accomplished player and one that is not quite as good.
    And yes, you are right, pros focus on footwork patterns that align the kinetic chain for hours and hours, it then becomes instinctive, and they don't think of it any more. It's more of a feel that you are powerful, efficient, aligned in any effort, even under the most excruciating circumstances.
     
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  21. larry10s

    larry10s Hall of Fame

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    to me "that tiny pause" is the difference of balance and control when hitting the shot. the split step timing to be under control for the first volley rather than have the ball upon you before you are ready is very important to me.im going to try the count to 5 drill. its intriguing. in all sporte you talk to players after a record breaking performance and they commonly say" everything slowed down" or something to that effect.
    until the patterns become instinctive and one does it by"feel", isnt the hours of focus and repetition more focus and repetition and less feel??
    oscar, your thoughts please
     
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  22. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    That is an absurd example and an absurd link to the so-called "conventional" tennis. However, if you look at the word "conventional" it can mean "following accepted customs and proprieties." Acceptance is the key word and when you try to paint a picture of us following customs that are accepted but are dated in the 1950's that in and of itself is absurd.

    I saw your post on aligning the butt cap to the ball for the slice backhand. That is conventional advice you just provided. It is accepted advice and is commonly used amongst many teaching professionals. Many coaches subscribe to the butt cap towards the ball on groundstrokes especially. This can be taught in a variety of ways through direct instruction or indirect instruction.

    So, since you just used conventional wisdom to help a player, can we call you the "Father of Modern Conventional Tennis"? :)

    Let's face it Oscar, the forehand has been taught for many many years, yes the same one you teach. Windshield wiper and all. Even the wrap around finish with the elbow pointing to the opponent or some say the butt cap pointing to the opponent.

    Good coaches realize that the game of tennis is more than thinking about where your feet are and if you are in the right grip.

    For you to provide an absurd unrealistic example, and then link it to the way coaches teach tennis is absurd in itself. The truth is, the clear majority of coaches try to keep things simple as best they can and only offer more information as the student needs it or asks for it. A "maze" of data is pure exaggeration.

    Top pros acheive this through their own hard work and dedication as well. Top pros have drilled and drilled and drilled to become the top level athletes they have become. Top level pros also have something many of us don't have - the right combination of genes.

    Feel comes from repetition as the brain learns and understands what muscles it needs to fire at the right time. This produces a certain feeling when it is done right and the brain learns when it has done it right.

    A player can learn tennis in a variety of ways and every way has its strengths and weaknesses. Isolating those that don't teach your way is a bit Hitlerish to me.

    Building blocks are what matters in tennis. Many coaches simply focus on technique. They may teach a certain level of players and that is it. Many times it is the student themselves that are content with this type of tennis training. They don't want to get in shape and the instructor is stuck just trying to maintain their technique.

    What is important is not to copy the pro, but to copy the key fundamentals that are common amongst all pros. That is how instruction is derived. That is how you created your instruction.

    Come on Oscar. The best technique is what is common amongst advanced to professional players. You first have to understand what to do. Then you have to practice it to develop your ability to make it automatic and move into other areas to improve your game. Feel comes after you understand what to do, how to do it, and practice what it is you need to do. Now I can agree that feel is being developed through all stages of a players tennis journey. Some players will learn quicker in this area than others just as some develop their footwork faster than others. Feel can be developed along with the necessary cognitive and psycho-motor needs that many instructors perform knowingly and unknowingly.

    That is more complicated than the HIT-BOUNCE-HIT using yoru front foot for timing your forward swing. A player needs to develop three main things:

    1. Racquet preparation before the bounce.

    2. Their timing step to initiate their forward swing.

    3. Their contact with the ball.

    4. Their followthrough and recovery.

    Many players limited to your kind of count, forget they have to move and recover. Clearing the mind is the last thing a player needs to do.

    What a player needs to do is dwell on the right things to help him play better. Mental toughness, development, building blocks, skill development, are all things that take place before a match. When a player is in a match, they need to be mentally prepared to stick to their game plan, make adjustments as the game changes, provide self-diagnosis, find the keys that unlock their opponent's game, and use the skills developed through practice and execute them at game time.

    This is common, accepted (conventional), and researched practice for nearly every single sport.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
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  23. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    Oscar, in your example of the "conventional" pro in the US open final you state that the player could get confused thinking about all the racquet movements and footwork and probably miss the ball - yet later you state that pro's practice their footwork patterns for hours and ours until it becomes natural.

    You say in your teaching method players shouldn't think about their feet but just find the ball?

    Which is it? Should a player forget his feet and just find the ball or should he "focus on footwork patterns that align the kinetic chain for hours and hours, it then becomes instinctive, and they don't think of it any more" I'm pretty sure you cant have one with out the other? Or does your method only work to a certain point before the player has to actually do some work on the basics?
     
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  24. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    So I'm not the only one that noticed that Ash_Smith
     
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  25. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Bungalo Bill, man you are annoying. Yes I have seen some of your posts with good advice. Congrats on that.

    But for goodness sakes chill out with blasting everyone's advice, especially Wegner's.

    Maybe the ideas are not all his and not all new, I get that. But his format is excellent and the advice works. Not all his advice is right on in my opinion, but lots of it is.

    I have talked to Richard Williams 3 times through the years. He told me he used Oscar's early tennis tips to get his daughters started. I also know a boy who just got a full ride to University of Florida. His dad also used Wegner's information for his first 10 years.

    Oscar's presentation has been used to produce players who destroy other players trained for years by technical coaches such as yourself.

    Deal with it and move on already. Geez who cares who gets credit. His simple approach works with some players, your super analytical approach works with others. Quit ripping apart every word people write.

    You are so dang arrogant compared to the famous coaches I have met who have actually produced Grand Slam champs. Get over yourself.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
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  26. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks! Why? Because I bring up the truth? Or maybe I don't temper my words before I speak out? What is it? Want me to blow sunshine up your...? I find a lot of people here aren't buying Oscars stuff. Why single me out?

    Am I blasting EVERYONE'S advice? How can I provide good information and yet blast EVERYONE'S advice? Aren't these posts about our opinions on things? Am I not allowed to express my views?

    What about the posts were people don't agree with my point of view? Are you there to counsel them? If you don't like what I write, there is an ignore button.

    However, if I don't agree with something and can back up my position, maybe you ought to listen.

    And? So? You are right! The ideas aren't new.

    So it is okay for him to keep saying conventional, use poor examples to promote his product, throw good coaches that don't use his system and label them bad coaches, and am I suppose to buy his Scientology bent when I myself know better?

    :) Really? I think it is only because of a fallout with Macci and you don't know squat about it. If anyone knows Richard Williams, you would know he is the type of person that holds deep grudges.

    So, now you are insulting me? Are you saying that all I do is walk on the court and teach a player how to hit a forehand over and over and over again? Even when they know how too? LOL!!!! Geeez, I thought I provided good information? Now I am not? Are you saying it is all wrong then? Obviously I am if students that are taught by people like me get their butts kicked all the time. Isn't that what you are implying? All the time? Nevermind, the hundreds of other matches that MTM'ers get their butts kicked. Is it the Holy Grail you are offering?

    What happens if Oscar agrees with my information? What happens if they POST my information on their site, am I still wrong? Am I the guy that walks on the court oblivious to anything else that is going on? Have you read ALL of my posts?

    And concerning these boards and the obviouos "box" you put me in, what else am I suppose to do? Tell people to just imagine things? Or should we just close shop and announce "THE TENNIS INSTRUCTION BOARD AT TW IS NOW CLOSED. IF ANYONE DESIRES TO GET FREE TECHNICAL ADVICE OR INSTRUCTION, WE HAVE THIS TO SAY, "YOU ARE A FOOL, TENNIS IS ONLY ABOUT FEEL. CLEAR YOUR MIND OF THOSE IMPURE THOUGHTS FROM THOSE FALSE PROPHETS THAT CALL THEMSELVES INSTRUCTORS, ESPECIALLY THAT TROUBLEMAKER BUNGALOW BILL. SO GET OUT THERE AND BE FREE! TAKE OFF THE CHAINS OF THOSE TASK MASTERS MILKING YOU FOR EVERY PENNY THEY CAN GET AND LIVE!!! FEEL THE BALL! LESSON OVER! BUY MY PRODUCT!"

    This is a tennis instruction and tips board. If a player wants their stroke diagnosed, wouldn't Oscar become more technical in his advice? He was on the slice backhand post. Did you say anything there?

    Haha, I have moved on. It is over. Maybe it is Oscar that should stop saying or using "conventional" and other words against coaches that are just as good as him that don't use his system.

    There is no modern, you exaggerated the results of MTM'ers vs. "technical" players, the word conventional is improperly used, MTM supporters can't teach here unless they get Oscar in here, they can't diagnose strokes, they only sell product, provide propoganda, and are using these boards to sell. It is over!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
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  27. Tim Tennis

    Tim Tennis Professional

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    Hello Bungalo Bill,

    Thanks for taking the time and doing battle with these guys.

    Ed
    Tennis Geometrics
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
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  28. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    You are welcome, but wait, I thought you were tlm? Aren't you tlm?
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
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  29. Tim Tennis

    Tim Tennis Professional

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    Well, when I grew up my nickname was Tim, for some reason, no, I have never posted as tlm and I only post under one screen name, Tim Tennis.

    I am sure you will remember me when you think of the Wonder Wedge which we now call the Power V Grip.

    Also years ago you suggested a smaller version and I did finally come up with one, the new Power V Grip II, which makes it a lot easier for most people to use.

    Anyhow, best regards to you.

    Ed
    Tennis Geometrics

    http://www.tennisgeometrics.com
     
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  30. VaBeachTennis

    VaBeachTennis Semi-Pro

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    Nice post Oscar, but I think that you are possibly leaving one thing out. A person can be trained in "conventional" or "modern" techniques. Once a person trains to a certain level and the techniques become "second nature", they do act instinctively and do think about feeling the ball on the strings.

    Take a boxer for example, they learn footwork, a jab, hook, cross, shovel hook, uppercut, strategy, style, etc., they are trained in the basics of those techniques and then executing them becomes second nature and they hardly are thinking about how to throw the punch or the footwork that they were taught. They just do it, but they all started by being drilled on the basics, whether they are "conventional" or "modern".
     
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  31. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Of course I remember you. I am glad you are posting again. Merry Christmas.
     
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  32. Rambler124

    Rambler124 Rookie

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    Tennis Balla,

    If one is interested in this RPT method or being certified as such how would you recommend they should proceed?

    Thanks!
     
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  33. 10ispro

    10ispro Rookie

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    Contact Sanchez Casal would be the 1st step. USPTA just held their 2nd Competitive Player's conference at SC-A Naples last weekend. Its a 3 day, all day training. Highlights the majority of the "Ideal" drills. importance of Feeding and being able to "play" with the player.
    Also covers Physical testing for dominance like hand, feet,hip,shoulder etc.. dominance to start a training program to build up the weaker side as well as overall strength and flexibility.
    entire course was rather in depth. Each coach last year, was given the RPT manual at the conclusion. (i wasnt able to go this year)

    One thing thats being left out which separates the SC-A method from others is its a complete approach b/c it also focuses on education. ALL Students, I believe even at the Professional level to be enrolled full time have to take educational classes, (usually at a minimum a language course). They realize that while it may be great to be a champion on a tennis court--majority will not get to the point where they can play for a living.
    The full time kids in Naples, have classes from 8-2pm mon-friday. Tennis 215-500 and then an hour of conditioning/fitness/strength training. Dinner then study time.
     
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  34. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Pretty much what 10ispro said.
    Just be aware the course I did is not for someone who's never taught tennis before and I was even told that in an email from them before I went there. Its not a beginners program for someone just getting into coaching. The whole academy setup is explained to you (on and off the court), including what 10ispro mentioned the education aspect of the players which is very important to them. If a player is struggling in school they will pull him/her off the courts without hesitation so they can catch up. Having coached at a big tennis academy before in the states myself, I know how easily education gets overlooked.
    If you're asking about the normal RPT certification, then talk to Ash_Smith. He should be able to help you out.
     
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  35. 10ispro

    10ispro Rookie

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    one other really cool thing about SC-A that I just got an email about is that each full time student enrolled in both Barcelona and Naples will each get their own individual tutor for both on court and off court. So a Private Tennis tutor/Coach, Academic Tutor and Fitness Tutor.

    Every student-athlete at the Academia Sánchez-Casal is assigned tutors to provide assistance and counseling on his or her sports and academic development. A special workshop was held at the Academia Sánchez-Casal on October 22nd with the main goal of bringing together the tutors of the three main areas that compose the training offered at the ASC. Tennis coaches, physical trainers and teachers from Schiller International School had the opportunity to get to know each other better and interact in a workshop activity with the aim of working as one same team, with one main goal: provide the best service possible to the student-athletes of the ASC.
     
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  36. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    @ Rambler

    Depends on where you live. If you're in the US your best bet would be to do the AS-C Academy course (which is in association with the RPT) down in Naples, FL. If you're in the southern states and can get down to Mexico the RPT Latin America run the certification courses. If you're in Europe than you can do the certification in the UK or in Spain or the AS-C course in Barca.
     
    #86
  37. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Haha, even you can't follow your own maze and say to concentrate on 3 things, then list 4, lol-
    and you were trying to keep it simple, then got lost.
    Had to get one more thing on the list, lol.

    How would you know if MTM players forget to recover & move, much less due to counting?? You have no experience with this.
    Well at least you realize how conventional you are, as that is an improvement.
     
    #87
  38. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    Whether you agree with BB or not he has at least offered countless tips to many on this forum based on his experiences of being a tennis pro.

    What have you brought to the party - except to ignore several questions posed directly to you recently, or to take the **** out of other posters.
     
    #88
  39. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    10th Request

    Please provide an example of a "revolutionary" and "modern" way in which MTM teaches a volley.

    Thanks.
     
    #89
  40. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    what a load of horse urine.

    You need to focus on discontinuing the practice of hitting off your front foot during teaching lessons, before calling the thousands of former pro champions, and current champions "chumps".
     
    #90
  41. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

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    I am not a beginner and I currently do not count before hitting. I can try yours but I am confused: just how fast do you count the 1,2,3,4,5, I mean I can also count slower and only count 1,2,3 and hit. Also if my opponent hits a fast paced ball I can imagine I have to count faster?
     
    #91
  42. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Hey MTM guys are back here, just in time for the holidays! What a treat. I need to start reading this thread.
     
    #92
  43. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    That is why only modern tennis coached players win the USO final, and the rest of the losers only reach the final LOL.

    Federer must have paid so much attention to the details and that is why he lost to Del Potro.

    Why do you give absurd examples? What is the highest level that you have played at, that you can give imaginary examples of what happens in the USO final?

    You need to separate rhetoric from logic. Weaving long imaginary stories does not prove anything. You create your own strawman (the loser who "just" makes it to the USO final and misses the ball entirely because he is coached by conventional methods) and your own hero (presumably the winner who is coached by modern methods discovered by you a mere 30 years ago) and come to your own conclusions about an imaginary war which no one is fighting any more.

    Why don't you listen to what is being said, instead of talking as if others don't exist? Several things you wrote have been proven to be completely wrong, based on video evidence. Pros have very early takeback and preparation, they don't count 1 to 5, wait till they panic, and then decide. It works only at low club levels. Pros are hitting all over the sweetspot, not necessarily in the lower half. "Modern sweetspots" don't extend to cover all the mains and cross. Your coaching video showing you and your student putting the right foot forward and then hitting the forehand is not what the pros are doing. And above all, people have moved on a long time ago and what may have been new to some people at one time is not an issue any more. I can still find a few people who believe students who use calculators instead of slide rules don't learn mathematics, but it is not a sufficient cause to start a modern teaching system which keeps saying calculators are useful. The time is long past.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2009
    #93
  44. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    There is no difference between this and the old advice of "bounce hit bounce hit" which I hear coaches screaming all day.

    The crux is how fast is 1,2,3,4 supposed to be counted? Aloud? In the head? How much pause between them? This is what Kathy said in her article - your statements can never be proven wrong because you never specify the circumstances exactly. Anyone can do it with a speed that appeals to him, you get to pick the ones who win to quote as examples, and you can then claim it was due to their counting.
     
    #94
  45. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    They also say the ball looked like a basketball that day and they could do nothing wrong. It is not due to any counting, but their superior training, talent, eyesight, fitness etc which click together at certain times. If it was due to counting, weren't they also counting when they did not have record-breaking performances? Isn't Federer also counting when he shanks the ball or loses to Nadal or Del Potro?
     
    #95
  46. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    LOL you are being scientific here. That will not do. Even the classic DMV suggestion of counting till 5 to place yourself behind the car in front of you (and we know all of us follow that) specifies 1-Mississipi 2-Mississipi etc to at least attempt to quantify it. With Oscar it could be 12345, 1 2 3 4 5, 1 2 3 4 5 - pick the guy who wins tournaments and announce it was due to his counting.

    LOL the gaps got edited out. Try "quoting" my post - there were supposed to be variable lengths of white spaces between the numbers
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2009
    #96
  47. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Great stuff, suresh. Let's see how the cult dodges everything you just stated.
     
    #97
  48. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Oscar is always right (by definition):



    http://od-tennis.blogspot.com/2007/04/tennis-week-interview-with-oscar-wegner.html


    "Hitting the ball early is a concept that needs to be debunked, even at the highest level of the game," Wegner writes in his book "Play Better Tennis In Two Hours". "I have seen too many players experience off days and not know exactly why. It is one thing to advance on the court to cut your opponent's time or to hit on the rise, putting pressure on your opponent, but it is another thing to start the stroke earlier than needed."


    Look how the third sentence contradicts the first. Which one are we to go by? Is he debunking the concept of "hitting the ball early" or of "starting the stroke earlier than needed"?

    If it's the latter, does he mean the whole stroke? Or just the the forward swing?

    You can't prove a person right or wrong when you can't nail down what he's talking about. Now, this is quoting from a published book, so presumably this isn't mere misspeaking on Oscar's part. So, is he deliberately being ambiguous to make his idea sound controversial, or what? What is he talking about? "Hitting the ball early" or "beginning the swing early"?

    One minute it's one thing, the next minute it's the other = constantly shifting ground.
     
    #98
  49. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    MTM= Modern Tennis Madness. :)
     
    #99
  50. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    We just need the "modern sweetspot" diagram back again and we are all set in this thread! Just sit back and enjoy.
     

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