Running Forehands

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by boramiNYC, Sep 26, 2012.

  1. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,078
    Keep your head still and focus on the ball as you run. Don't try to look up as you hit the ball, it is probably going to be the last shot you hit anyway. Decide on a point that you are going to hit toward as you are running and go for it.
     
    #51
  2. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    Thanks. How about for shots from the center of the court? Can the pendulum style takeback be combined with a straight arm and WW finish to expand the hitting zone and provide more spin variation as a "base" forehand style?
     
    #52
  3. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,305
    Technically, no. A straight arm configuration is really a reflection of the extension through the shot. When you use a pendulum-style takeback from a static position, you get the best extension when you use a down-to-up forward swing, finishing over the shoulder. If you swing in an across, WW-style, you'll have a bent-arm configuration. (Again, we're strictly talking static position.) Sampras used both kinds of swings, but I think he wasn't especially conscious of this.

    There's ways to add more spin variation, though. Federer's rotation on his takeback was also done by Laver, and it gives you a more lasso-like motion while still retaining the basic pendulum shape.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
    #53
  4. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    OK, are you saying that Laver used a pendulum takeback like Pete, but with Fed's pronated takeback? I can see that on video. But it appears to me that Rod used the pull kinetic chain while Pete uses the push. And Rod did go straight-arm on most forehands. So I'm a bit confused - it appears to me that Laver did use pendulum with straight-arm. Did it work because he was using pull rather than push mechanics?

    Could you break down the Sampras forehand vs. the Laver forehand in terms of the mechanical differences (and maybe throw in some visualizations too:) ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
    #54
  5. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    377
    What??? Are you trying to fit as many buzz words as you can in each post? Of course Sampras wasn't conscious of any of this. It's made up gobbledygook.
     
    #55
  6. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    FYI, tricky is the probably the most useful poster in this section of the message board. Do an advanced search for his posts and you'll find that his knowledge of stroke mechanics is unmatched around here, and he has helped many, many people on this board improve their strokes. When he turns up to post, people listen. He's using a lot of "buzzwords" because he knows I'm familiar with the terminology he uses to describe forehand stroke mechanics.
     
    #56
  7. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    377
    If by unmatched knowledge of stroke mechanics, you mean he made up the whole fake distinction between push vs pull strokes, that is still preoccupying and confusing people on these message boards, then yes I'd have to agree with you.

    Those sections I quoted are about the worst, most nonsensical description of a running forehand I've ever seen. I guarantee you, no top level player, Sampras or otherwise, thinks of their running forehand that way, consciously or subconsciously. It's just needlessly confusing and contradictory.

    When people discuss stroke mechanics in real life, they don't necessarily use all the buzz words that are popular on these forums. I'd never seen anyone occupied with push vs pull strokes until I came onto these forums.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
    #57
  8. 3fees

    3fees Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,001
    Location:
    NorCal
    If your running in on the shot, hitting the ball with wrong foot forward, lessens power, and is used to go to the net..As to the grip this is not critical,its the finish that counts.

    :)
     
    #58
  9. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    377
    yeah I've seen people hit this shot with about every groundstroke grip in the book.
     
    #59
  10. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,337
    hopefully you understand what a running fh being discussed is. once you do and watch a lot of pros past and present executing this shot, you'll realize invariably their opposite foot of the racquet arm steps forward not toward the net but toward the ball most often toward the side fence as the contact is made. this shot is not too difficult for E grip, not easy for SW grip, and almost impossible for W grip. one of the few current top pros using SW who executes this shot reliably is djokovic.

    one of the effective tactics playing against SW and W players is to pull them wide on their fh precisely because this shot is difficult for them.
     
    #60
  11. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    377
    Wow, 100 percent wrong. Most pros use some variant of a semiwestern forehand grip. Most hit this shot with deadly precision. Ever heard of a guy named Rafa Nadal? He has an extreme grip and is one of the most deadly guys on tour with this type of shot.

    Claycourters with semiwestern and western forehand grips live for this type of shot. If you're pulling them out wide to their forehand, you better be doing it with a very aggressive shot, otherwise they will have a lot of options.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
    #61
  12. Netspirit

    Netspirit Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,227
    Location:
    Snoqualmie, WA
    Djokovic is using W.
     
    #62
  13. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,337
    not a single other pro using SW have a swing that is even close to nadal. agree he does this shot extremely well and so does Djok. they are special and not representative of the norm even for the pros. they also do other very difficult things well. not most other pros do. bring a better example if wanna claim someone is 100% wrong. you should be saying you don't agree, which I have no problem with, capish?
     
    #63
  14. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    377
    Single example? I figured Nadal was good enough. Ok let's try 25 examples. Look at current the ATP top 25. Most hit forehands with a variant of what we would call a semi-western grip. Most have deadly running forehands. A player like Edberg can hit this shot with a grip closer to continental. A player like Wawrinka can do it with a grip closer to western.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
    #64
  15. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    377
    I thought of a great example of a player with an extreme forehand grip that excels at this running forehand shot. Francesca Schiavonne. It's one of the weapons that helped her win the French Open.

    Why are we even having this discussion? Countless players with semiwestern and western grips hit the running forehand very well. Go to your local club and watch the junior players.

    With more extreme grips the problem shows up more when they want to flatten the ball out more and hit through the ball, or maybe take the ball early. Running forehands are no problem for those type of grips. Go look at the list of men's and women's players that have won Roland Garros. You will see a lot of players with semiwestern or even more extreme grips and great running forehands.

    You will also see players like Michael Stich and Stephan Edberg with less extreme grips that won wimbledon, with great running forehands. You can hit a running forehand with anything from a continental or australian grip to semiwestern or extreme western.

    Even at the local level, you see players will all types of grips hitting this shot well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
    #65
  16. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    10,398
    Part of it comes from contact being later in the stroke where acceleration can
    be strong.
     
    #66
  17. hurtmesoul

    hurtmesoul New User

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    11
    Ok guys so I'm just going add my opinion on how to hit a buggy whip running forehand for a righty step by step:
    1. Obviously, split step then go into the unit turn.

    2. Start running towards the ball with your shoulders turned. It is important to keep your non hitting hand on the racquet for stability. You do not want your racquet arm to be bobbing all over while moving to the ball.

    3. When you feel like your close enough to the ball, use you left hand to release the racquet are start your swing.

    4. Now this is the key step where I see a lot of differences in explanation by posters. You want to do these three things almost simultaneously: a. Contact the ball with your swing b. Do a cross step(its actually more like a hop) with your LEFT leg, when you land all your weight is going to be transferred on the left, while this happens you... c. KICK your RIGHT leg upward.

    5. With the kicking motion of the right leg, you can then bring that leg around, plant the right foot, and then push off with that right foot to recover.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMytlMS-Ip8
    This video is the perfect example I want to emphasize for steps 4 and 5. Watch Azarenka's feet, step 4 is basically one smooth motion. At 0:25 she takes her last step with her left foot, as she steps she kicks the back leg. At 0:32 starts step 5 where the right leg comes around and plants.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COZWbguTZKA&feature=related
    Here is another video of a running forehand. Pause at 0:22, notice how his right leg is kicked up and by 0:23 he is ready to push off with his right to go back in to the court.

    Keep in mind that 4 and 5 happens basically in one step and the motion takes a lot of practice to get use to.
    Sorry if my explanation might be a little complicated to understand. Please watch the youtube videos, it is exactly the type of technique I had in mind. I see many of the pros use this especially Nadal, Sharapova, Azarenka.
     
    #67
  18. defrule

    defrule Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Messages:
    823
    #68
  19. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    377
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8UqUBkmWBg

    Here is Gustavo Kuerten hitting a running/buggy whip forehand off of a sampras first serve. He's uses an extreme grip. He has a great running forehand.

    I think the running forehand is one of the easiest shots to learn. Most people I know that have good ones, just learned the shot on their own without formal instruction. A lot of situations where you are late to the ball, or you are trying to hit an extreme angle, just kind of force you to learn how to hit a running forehand.

    The way I think of it is: I'm using my opponent's pace that's already on the ball. I don't have to hit through the ball quite as much. I'm redirecting it. I'm going low to high really fast to get that topspin to bring the ball up and down quickly. Often I hit this shot because I'm late to the ball, so my contact point is behind where it would be on a forehand drive. However I also hit a buggy whip forehand on putaway shots sometimes, where I can make contact a little earlier, but I still using that drastic low to high brushing action, which results in the so-called "reverse" finish.

    I'm no expert, but to me the shot seems a little wristier than a normal forehand, I feel like I'm a little late to the ball, and I'm using a little more wrist action to control the ball and compensate.

    Players like Nadal and Federer that have really good running forehands still try to contact the ball somewhat in front, and hit through it somewhat while also getting all that brushing action. A player like Sharapova, doesn't have quite as a good a running forehand because she often lets the ball get too far behind her. Then again her movement is an issue so that could be part of her problem.

    If you try to contact the outside of that ball more you'll get that sidespin that hooks the ball back into the court.

    I think it's a pretty simple shot. No need to make it too complicated.

    Edit: Another great situation for this shot is when you're hitting a passing shot. If their approach has any pace on it, you can use the buggy whip forehand to bring the ball down quickly and put it at their feet, and also to hit a more extreme angle.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
    #69

Share This Page